Kirbonic_Pikmin
He/Him- 3,477
- 6,900
Seems there’s a lot more to cover than I initially thought, so my reply might end up coming tomorrow or in multiple parts
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The main gripe i have about the corridor is that it is done via infinite looping an initially finite space rather than an actual infinite space.
If you have an infinite loop and you escape it, thats more of a feat of breaking out of it or having a resistance than it is somehow reaching an end of something like that. accelerating infinitely is a massive stretch
thats assuming they were in an actual loop. Nothing in that scene really implied they were seeing the same space repeat itself. And the moon was heavily implied to be a hologram in the sky and not an optical illusion that makes it appear closer. The whole thing seems to rely on assuming kaguyas ability is always used for the exact same thing.
If you give the girls infinite speed, then this infinite corridor is a non-issue. Whether the spell is active or not, the protagonists would be able to easily go back if they do in fact have infinite speed. You guys can't keep doing this, acting as if the infinite Sanzu River and the infinite corridor can be useful barriers when you argue that anyone worth their salt can bypass those with raw speed.
The moon didn’t get "a bit closer." Again, the Scarlet Team explicitly says they are "closer to it," after reaching the end of Eiren's Corridor; not that they saw the moon "get a bit closer," which is further supported by Remilia's statement. OP's argument here is yet another contrived interpretation, unsupported by the actual dialogue.
Entering a thread with only three people arguing against it, in which the OPs arguments have been severely ripped apart and shown to contain misinfo, providing no real reason or evidence for your take or issues with the feats, nor any responses to the counter arguments that OP has received, and then saying “I don’t care if it offends”…. I knew this thread was gonna have a pretty terrible FRA train but this is ridiculous lol.Yeah I have to agree with MFTL+, possibly Infinite. If that offends some of you, I don't care. My scrutiny-eye says that this shit is not solid or consistent, so that's my take.
I don’t really care. I’m calling it how I see it. My interactions with a banned user don’t really matter here and in this debate, we’re two different people. I largely stopped using VSBW well before she got banned because I got sick of this site, how its users act, among the 27 layers of mod politics you need to understand to get anything done around here. I’m only here because I was asked by other supporters to be here.I would also appreciate if the opposition would stop with the slanderous remark and insinutions regarding my "good faith". I'm aware that certain members present here are in contact with a certain banned user known for heated debates regarding this verse. It's not something I would have wished to bring up normally, but if people are getting passive aggressive at me to get their point across again, I think we're gonna have a problem.
Looks like the target audience of my annoyance arrived. I read the thread, and I've made my stance clear. If you want a different response, earn it with arguments that don't include "You're disingenuous!!!" every 3 seconds. I am only here because I wanted something to blow a bit of time away and this happened to be the thread I chose. So let me reiterate: I don't give a damn.Entering a thread with only three people arguing against it, in which the OPs arguments have been severely ripped apart and shown to contain misinfo, providing no real reason or evidence for your take or issues with the feats, nor any responses to the counter arguments that OP has received, and then saying “I don’t care if it offends”…. I knew this thread was gonna have a pretty terrible FRA train but this is ridiculous lol.
If all you got from my arguments was “you’re disingenuous” then you very clearly didn’t read them, and instead read only my post towards Saikou. Not a word spoken about any of the back and forth, not a word spoken about the various scans Quib or I provided that countered Saikou’s args, nothing. Not sure what to tell you beyond that.Looks like the target audience of my annoyance arrived. I read the thread, and I've made my stance clear. If you want a different response, earn it with arguments that don't include "You're disingenuous!!!" every 3 seconds. I am only here because I wanted something to blow a bit of time away and this happened to be the thread I chose. So let me reiterate: I don't give a damn.
Desperate for me to argue with you, eh? When you just straight up dedicate an entire section of your debunk to say "this is disingenuous", it's useless drama-starting crap that frankly I don't think either you or Saikou have the enegy to pull out.E2If all you got from my arguments was “you’re disingenuous” then you very clearly didn’t read them, and instead read only my post towards Saikou. Not a word spoken about any of the back and forth, not a word spoken about the various scans Quib or I provided that countered Saikou’s args, nothing. Not sure what to tell you beyond that.
You made your stance clear but gave no actual reasoning for why, which is what earned my initial response, and is what expect to be a big issue going forwards. But hey, you don’t give a damn. Which is about what I expected.
You did actually argue for it being an object that moved closer several times, and I’ve addressed this point twice already. In fact, here are some direct examples:I have no idea what you're trying to say here. At no point did I ever try to claim that the Moon PHYSICALLY moved closer to the people.
The most straightforward explanation for the Moon's behavior is that it's an object that's placed in Gensokyo's sky and that it moved closer to the protagonists as they flew up to it. And thus, the corridor taking the protagonists deep into space infinitely far away from Gensokyo isn't logical.
If you're changing your stance, at least provide scans to back up these claims. You've consistently argued for a physical component to the False Moon and suggested that Eiren "moves" it closer to the protagonists.Again, I was not implying that the fake Moon is a literal rock in the sky. Just that if it can physically prevent travel to the Moon, then it's more than just a purely visual spell. Something has been changed up there to make travel impossible. And so excusing off any weird behavior as the Moon just being a purely visual anomaly doesn't work.
Can you address anything directly? What are you even on about? You've been the manager of this verse for at least 5 years previously. Of course I'm going to be more critical of you, because you seemingly cannot get the facts of said verse straight. Implying that I'm incapable of forming my own opinions because of some "banned user" is just rude.I would also appreciate if the opposition would stop with the slanderous remark and insinutions regarding my "good faith". I'm aware that certain members present here are in contact with a certain banned user known for heated debates regarding this verse. It's not something I would have wished to bring up normally, but if people are getting passive aggressive at me to get their point across again, I think we're gonna have a problem.
Incorrect. I am not planning to vote.Agree with mftl, possibly infinite (6): lephyrtherevanchist?
I think I can go agree with infinite here from what I checkIm just gonna tally the votes for now
Agree with infinite (5): Topaz404, kirbonic pikmin, quibster, jinsye?(only for sanzu river), shiroiyo
Agree with mftl, possibly infinite (6): deidalius, DaReaperMan, lephyrtherevanchist?, Maverick Zero X, Dark Dragon Medeus, TISSG7Redgrave
Agree with mftl (4): RethPo (though im also fine with possibly infinite), saikou (though not against possibly inf), planck69, armorchompy,
Thats why i highlighted them. if two staff agree and two staff disagree, then the user count takes priority. At least i assume thats how it works anyway idk :/Only staff votes count. Don't really see the point in listing non-staff votes.
It doesn't work like that, no.Thats why i highlighted them. if two staff agree and two staff disagree, then the user count takes priority. At least i assume thats how it works anyway idk :/
Ah okay got it. I can see why 80% of ctrs never reach a conclusion.It doesn't work like that, no.
The thread simply is undecided unless both sides can reach a compromise.
You did actually argue for it being an object that moved closer several times, and I’ve addressed this point twice already. In fact, here are some direct examples:
We know what actually prevents travel; Eirin outright states that it’s the Earth, turned into a sealed chamber by her spell, not the False Moon itself. OP’s insistence that the False Moon somehow blocks travel isn’t just misleading—it’s ignoring explicit information given in the source material. At this point, OP should know better. Instead of inventing implications, why not address what’s actually stated? The Earth becomes the sealed space, and the False Moon (an illusion) is merely a secondary component to that spell, not the barrier itself.
I'm pretty sure this has already been stated and covered multiple times before me, but I'll just re-enforce it. What lies between Earth and the Lunar Capitol is Heaven, and Heaven is well documented and currently accepted on wiki as an infinitely sized realm, meaning that the Corridor going up into the sky, and thus, into Heaven, would not be a contradiction for its size being infinite, as it would simply be passing from a finite realm into an infinitely sized one.
It should also be noted that Gensokyo, Heaven and The Lunar Capitol are all within the boundaries of the Hakurei Barrier, while the Outside World is beyond it. This means there's no major issue with someone flying from Gensokyo, through Heaven and then reaching the Lunar Capitol beyond it. While it might seem strange, that's simply how its described.
Why would they do this? What would they have to gain? Why would they set up an infinite corridor if they were just going to drop it the second it started serving its purpose? What would make them consider changing their plan and doing this, just to still try and stop them afterwards anyways? This makes even less sense, because Eirin blatantly refuses to turn off the illusory sky when Yukari asks, why would she turn off the Corridor to make their lives easier, instead of keeping it up to cause them any sort of distraction possible?
To tackle this more directly, this could be attributed to a variety of factors. For one, Eintei has direct effects and distortions upon a person's perception, making their perception of space distorted. Reisen was also actively ******* with the protagonists sense of directions and space.
And to continue, this argument is already pretty poor considering its attacking the visuals of a rather visually restricted game
This is a really disingenuous argument. For one, infinite distances are an extremely good deterrent for literally anyone on the face of the Earth lol. Most normal humans, spirits, entities or whatever are not going to be able to, or want to bother with crossing a literal infinite distance. The entire purpose of Kaguya's ability is to stop unwanted intruders from reaching her, which would include random human villagers wandering in, people who ostensibly would not be performing feats like this.
I see you on site and I see you off site. I’ve seen how you compose your arguments and how you’ve run these threads. I’ve seen why you start these threads and the poor reasonings for why. I see how you’ve abandoned every thread as soon as you had too mush pushback against them and couldn’t counter them. I saw you plan this very thread and ask people to support it before they had ever even seen the arguments.
Okay so since this is still going on im just gonna bring up consistency:
Infinite speed:
Sanzu river feat which is mostly just implied to be infinite when they cross it
Infinite corridor feat (not even really implied as much and sort of speculatory, staff agreeing to remove it though is still being debated)
This makes even less sense, because Eirin blatantly refuses to turn off the illusory sky when Yukari asks, why would she turn off the Corridor to make their lives easier, instead of keeping it up to cause them any sort of distraction possible?
Ftl-Mftl
Marisa saying her mini hakkero is lightspeed or faster and yorihime deflecting it and referring to them as lasers afterwards (other characters struggling with this attack fyi) (ftl or higher)
I'd take Infinite water = Infinite size with a grain of salt. Plenty of things and locations in fiction contain an infinite amount of water or can produce infinite water. It could be that the river is bottomless or that it magically produces an endless source of water, which wouldn't require having an infinite size.Just like how you "ignored" the fact that Sanzu River was stated to hold infinite amount of water and gone with "length" as the only part that could be infinite. Just like how you ignored the plot point of IN and WBaWC as well.
For the sakuya one well. Why would they even call sakuya "faster than the speed of light" as if it were something impressive or even noteable when she (and supposedly everyone else) are infinitely faster? Thats like me looking at a cheetah and saying "theyre faster than a snail, dang". Same way someone like dyspho in dbs saying hes faster than light is an anti feat (though in that case its ignored because mftl+ is more consistent)snip snip
For the sakuya one well. Why would they even call sakuya "faster than the speed of light" as if it were something impressive or even noteable when she (and supposedly everyone else) are infinitely faster?
Thats like me looking at a cheetah and saying "theyre faster than a snail, dang"
The relativistic feat the fairies blatantly struggle with.
The marisa part i should word better. Her master spark moves faster than all her other attacks, which she treats that way in the scene and is faster in gameplay, and in gameplay you normally have to aimdodge the attack to avoid it (least in non fighting ones).
So, yknow, itd be weird for it to be infinitely slower. That and the scene treats it as being impressive
And the calculations are just the fact they use lightspeed attacks in spellcard matches and that and the rest are based on consistency.
For the anti feats, the IN time limit isnt really gameplay mechanics, considering it actually has bad ends and affects the stories outcome and can happen.
Also didnt reimu when trapped in avici have no way out till kasen arrived? Despite her being able to blitz her way out of infinite spaces twice?
As for the corridor from what ive seen, it was in reimus scenario mentioned to be "endless", and "eternal" a couple other times. But before i go further, weirdly this bit of dialogue in the scenario implies the corridor is also an illusion? Could you explain that before i misunderstand something?
Of course, even Murasa's Scoop does that. But for a river that is, told to be in numerous times, infinite in width (By Ran) and story routes for UFO explicitly state that the Palanquin Ship, which protagonists were chasing after in the route of Gensokyo > Sanzu River > Makai, the ship itself had crossed through Sanzu River, explicitly stated to be at a stable speed aka in Auto Pilot mode while doing it, and ultimately passed through it.I'd take Infinite water = Infinite size with a grain of salt. Plenty of things and locations in fiction contain an infinite amount of water or can produce infinite water. It could be that the river is bottomless or that it magically produces an endless source of water, which wouldn't require having an infinite size.