You're not prepared enough... I'll destroy you completely!

[Omegas03]

SSJG Vegeta (DBS Broly) vs. SSJ Kefla (ToP). So both 3-A. but they can access to their Low 2-C forms so SSJB and SSJ2 are allowed. No SSJBE homever because Vegeta didn't use it in the Movie and it would turn the match unfair.

Fight is in Planet Salad.



Vegeta: 1 (CryoTheMayo,

Kefla: 3 (Thebestsilver, LordTracer, Mickey1940

Incon:

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Post-ToP Vegeta is considered to be on a similar level to Post-ToP Goku, so I'll scale based on that.

SS1 Kefla is comparable to the Universe 7 Spirit Bomb, which triggered Goku into transforming into UIS. We can't say for sure how strong the Spirit Bomb was, but it's likely between 20-40x stronger than SSB Goku, at the time, due to being stronger than KKX20 (Goku opted for it even though X20 failed, and it made Jiren struggle) but likely not as strong as UIS (it merely acted as the trigger for UIS and a refuel).

Vados claims SSB Goku would be a serious threat to SS1 Kefla, with Champa assuring her that Goku's massive drop in stamina (from UIS) would give her the edge. So we can assume Post-UIS1 SSB Goku is at least comparable to SS1 Kefla.

Post-UIS2 SSB Goku is explicitly stronger than UIS1 Goku and didn't seem to be in peak form, meaning he is likely considerably stronger than that.

Post-UIS2 SSB Goku > UIS1 Goku > Post-UIS1 SSB Goku >/= SS1 Kefla = Spirit Bomb

We can't say for sure if Goku grew greatly stronger from UIS3 or UI, but based on his growth from UIS1 and UIS2, it's fair to assume the gap likely increased.

Post-ToP SSB Goku > Post-UI SSB Goku > Post-UIS3 SSB Goku > Post-UIS2 SSB Goku > UIS1 Goku > Post-UIS1 SSB Goku >/= SS1 Kefla = Spirit Bomb

Is the rough scaling chain, if we assume Goku grew stronger from UIS3 and UI limit breaks.

SSB = SS x SSG

Assume the gap is about 2x with two arrows, that would put Post-ToP SSB Goku at 8x SS1 Kefla's power.

8 / 50 = 0.16

So overall, at best, SSG Vegeta would be about 1/6th of SS1 Kefla's power.

Even with all of his skill and experience advantages, I don't see Vegeta taking down someone 6x his power, so I'm going to claim this is a curbstomp.

 

[Mickey1940]

yeah SSJG Vegeta isn't really that strong compared to ToP high tiers. Considering that you can be less than 1.5 times stronger than someone in DBZ to 1 shot (Vegeta vs Cui), Kefla would stomp

 

[Omegas03]

Welp, how about I unrestrict them the access to Low 2-C forms? so Vegeta can go from God to Blue and Kefla from SSJ to SSJ2 as the battle goes on.

 

[Thebestsilver]

I think in the restriction version is a stomp and Kefura wins, and in the unrestricted option... i'm not secure, but i also think Vegeta not win.

 

[LordTracer]

If you give them Low 2-C, then Kefla would still stomp.

 

[Mickey1940]

If you give them Low 2-C, then Kefla would still stomp.

It won't be as much of a stomp as before

Vados said SSJ Kefla would struggle with a SSGSS Goku at his strongest, meaning that Post UI2 Goku would be as strong as SSJ Kefla, and SSJ2 Kefla should be double that due to the SSJ2 multiplier

SSGSS Vegeta after the ToP should be a little stronger than SSGSS Goku duing the ToP

so although it's a closer fight, Vegeta would be almost twice as weak as SSJ2 Kefla

Howeever, if SSGSSE is used, then Vegeta stomps

 

[Thebestsilver]

So... with the edit I continue voting for Kefla as winner.

 

[Omegas03]

This girl is OP even for Current standards lol.

 

[LordTracer]

@Mickey Kefla's SSJ2 was very clearly a higher multiplier than just two times. And SSJ2 Kefla at her peak would most definitely be above, or at the very least comparable to, SSBE Vegeta.

 

[Mickey1940]

@Mickey Kefla's SSJ2 was very clearly a higher multiplier than just two times. And SSJ2 Kefla at her peak would most definitely be above, or at the very least comparable to, SSBE Vegeta.

Did you forget about SSJ Beserk?

 

[LordTracer]

No...? I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.

 

[Mickey1940]

I'm pretty sure the reason why her power rose so much is because she was using SSJ Beserk along with SSJ2

 

[LordTracer]

Yeah...? That's just her normal SSJ2 as far as we know.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Mickey Kefla's SSJ2 was very clearly a higher multiplier than just two times. And SSJ2 Kefla at her peak would most definitely be above, or at the very least comparable to, SSBE Vegeta.

I have to disagree here, Kefla is nowhere near SSBE level because she was only compared to UIO1 when she powered up and that was a might have statement.

 

[LordTracer]

When she initially transformed, sure. But I'm not talking about when she initially transformed, I'm talking about her peak.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

When she initially transformed, sure. But I'm not talking about when she initially transformed, I'm talking about her peak.

That would be head canon sir.

 

[LordTracer]

Uh, no, it very much wouldn't. When Kefla first transformed, she was compared to UIO1. When she used her Ray Blast attack, she was stated to have powered up enough to one-shot UIO2 Goku, and Goku was visibly concerned when her attacks scraped him. So again, I'm talkin' about Kefla's peak, not her initial transformation.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Uh, no, it very much wouldn't. When Kefla first transformed, she was compared to UIO1. When she used her Ray Blast attack, she was stated to have powered up enough to one-shot UIO2 Goku, and Goku was visibly concerned when her attacks scraped him. So again, I'm talkin' about Kefla's peak, not her initial transformation.

How would being able to one shot UIO2 put her on SSBE level? It just means she's stronger than UIO2.

 

[LordTracer]

Because as I've explained a few times in various other threads: UIO2 and SSBE should be relative to each other. This is because SSBE Vegeta (after powering up) stomped GoD Toppo, who was slightly above Post-UIO2 Goku's strongest form. UIO2 is also significantly above Post-UIO2 Goku's strongest form (as I explained here), so UIO2 and SSBE should be around the same level and Kefla can one-shot UIO2.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Welp, how about I unrestrict them the access to Low 2-C forms? so Vegeta can go from God to Blue and Kefla from SSJ to SSJ2 as the battle goes on.

Vegeta and SS2 Kefla are roughly equal, I think.

Post-ToP SSB Goku = Post-ToP SSB Vegeta > Post-UIS2 SSB Goku > UIS1 Goku > Spirit Bomb = SS Kefla

As you can see, there is a pretty notable gap between SS Kefla and SSB Vegeta. We can't ascertain how strong SS2 is (especially with Kale's influence) but claiming 'at least 2x SS' is fair. In which case, I think SSB Vegeta and SS2 Kefla should be pretty similar in strength.

However, Vegeta is far more skilled, far more experienced and has no fusion timer restriction like Kefla. To add further, we have seen Vegeta's endurance and pride time and again, I have no doubt he could outlast Kefla's fusion if worst comes to worst.

To add further, if Kefla attempted her last resort, Vegeta's Final Explosion would likely overpower her and it's likely that Vegeta can survive it, considering his Post-ToP key is far stronger than his ToP self.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@LordTracer again your logic comes from an assumption. Kefla isn't that much stronger than UIO1 even when enraged. Can you please stop with your headcanon?

 

[Mickey1940]

@cryo

whoops when you said above that Vados stated that "SSGSS Goku was a serious threat to SSJ Kefla", I thought you meant Post UIS2 Goku instead of Post UIS1 Goku

However, shouldn't the Zenkai boost from MUIS Goku recieved be proportional to the boosts he recieved from previous UI transformations, if not more so? Meaning shouldn't SSGSS Vegeta be vastly superior to Kefla at this point?

 

[LordTracer]

@Zamasu

Can you stop calling what I say headcanon when I'm going by what was stated in the series? It's not an assumption that peak SSJ2 Kefla > UIO2 Goku, that was stated and Goku's expressions supported it. Just calling it headcanon doesn't make it that.

Matter of fact, the only headcanon here is you claiming she was only compared to UIO1 when that is a blatant lie and false.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I can't quantify or argue how much stronger Goku would have become from his UIS3 and UI limit breaks, or what Vegeta's SSBE limit break would have done for his base power. I'm forced to assume Goku had no more serious limit breaks after UIS2, due to having no evidence to argue for UIS3 and UI.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Zamasu
Can you stop calling what I say headcanon when I'm going by what was stated in the series? It's not an assumption that peak SSJ2 Kefla > UIO2 Goku, that was stated and Goku's expressions supported it. Just calling it headcanon doesn't make it that.

Matter of fact, the only headcanon here is you claiming she was only compared to UIO1 when that is a blatant lie and false.

2:30 "This power... It might even surpass Son's earlier level." Yet UIO2 couldn't put a dent in her with regular attacks. He even over powered her with a Kamehameha, a two times amp.

She's also never stated to actually reach Hakaishin level like how Toppo did, who Vegeta defeated.

 

[LordTracer]

Yes, once again, that is when she first transformed. Not at her peak.

Your point is? Through scaling Kefla is above both of them, just because she doesn't have a statement doesn't mean anything.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The point that I'm making is Kefla's initial transformation was still greater than UIO2 despite might surpassing UIO1's level. SSBKK Goku is 20 times UIO1 after UIO2 but Kefla is unquantifiably above UIO1 and 2.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, and I already explained why SSBKKx20 Goku is still beneath UIO2 based on how every other UIO limit break has worked so far.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Okay, and I already explained why SSBKKx20 Goku is still beneath UIO2 based on how every other UIO limit break has worked so far.

I've read it and it's still headcanon bro. And once again this limit break you always imply is contradicted over and over again.

 

[LordTracer]

Headcanon yet it's shown in the series, aight cool.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Headcanon yet it's shown in the series, aight cool.

It's shown once and you're literally assuming it happened again despite being zero context supporting that.

 

[LordTracer]

Please explain to me why UIO wouldn't break Goku's limits every time despite it being the same form every time, and UIO is consistently described as a limit-breaker.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Goku's first 'limit break' makes zero sense to begin with.

• Goku was stated to be fatigued the entire time after UIO1.

• Kefla's kick was Spirit Bomb level and it activated UIO1. If Goku got stronger this wouldn't have happened.

• The limit break implies Goku got at least 50x stronger. However this makes no sense because UIO2 would've stomped SSJ2 Kefla in her initial state, who was barely stronger than UIO1.

• After UIO2 powered up, he was able to match SSJ2 Kefla, who again might have surpassed UIO1, and overpowered her enraged state with a Kamehameha, which is just a two times amp.

• This logic implies the gap between SSB and UIO1 is bigger that the gap between SSB and UIO2. That doesn't make sense and it should be the other way around.

• Base Vegeta ******** on Mona while Cabba needed SSJ2 to beat her is consistent with Base Goku fighting on par with SSJ2 Caulifla.

This flawed inconsistent logic is always brought up by you and it's because of those U6 saiyans.

 

[LordTracer]

Hm, actually, you're the one that keeps bringing up all these points that have been refuted more than once now. Especially that last one.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Hm, actually, you're the one that keeps bringing up all these points that have been refuted more than once now. Especially that last one.

Lmao rEfUtEd! You're arguments don't make any sense. It's consistent with one narrative but inconsistent with others yet you keep stone walling.

 

[LordTracer]

The only person that seems to think they don't make sense is you. And you can laugh all you want, doesn't change the fact that you've brought up these exact same arguments two or three times before, they were contested and then you just stopped replying.

And really, you wanna call inconsistency yet you're (still) claiming Base Vegeta > SSJ2 Cabba? Even though the only thing that happened was Vegeta hitting Monna with a ki blast when she wasn't expecting it, it didn't damage her at all, and a fatigued SSJ2 Cabba was shown directly after to force Freeza into Golden just to block his Galick Cannon.

So, I'm gonna ask again. What in the series says UIO2 is the only time Goku ever got a limit break from UIO, and why would UIO2 be the only one that did it despite it being the exact same form as UIO1 and UIO3?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Why did a Spirit Bomb level attack knock Goku back into UIO?

 

[LordTracer]

Either A. Plot reasons or B. The writers forgot that they had Whis state just a few episodes earlier that it would take more and more to make Goku go back into UIO.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Either A. Plot reasons or B. The writers forgot that they had Whis state just a few episodes earlier that it would take more and more to make Goku go back into UIO.

Of course the the kick would feel harder in Goku's perspective because he was fatigued.

Also the initial UIO2 isn't even stronger than UIO1 that already disproves that Goku got stronger.