Young Justice upgrade? (spoilers)

[Imaginym]

what tier is the feat then

That's what we want to figure out. It's why I made this long post above:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/young-justice-upgrade-spoilers.129005/post-4970541

In that post, I assess what information about the feat we have. Because @Dark-Carioca, a Calc Group member, & ostensible Young Justice expert said this:

I mean the size of Atlantis isn't the issue, I'm just not sure how to calculate it sinking. Just the energy of it dropping into the sea floor? The energy of all the water covering the land?

@Abysswalker2126 : My post that I linked above explains the globe shots we have access to, showing the size of Atlantis compared to other continents. We also know at least some of the events that happened during the timeframe, & we have statements that I want people to assess the viability of using to help determine said timeframe.

If we can determine how long it took, we can probably reasonably guess whether it was an island/continent dropping into the sea, or water covering that landmass; Water covering Atlantis probably wouldn't be considered a great disaster caused by the return of a Chaos Lord if it happened over a significantly long period of time.

& looking at some of the events that are depicted as happening (Like the rubble of rocks, statues & buildings falling.) we can speculate on if it involved any earthquakes, tectonic plate shifting or landmass severing or such. If those involved, it's probably much quicker.

In other words, why I made that post was to try & summarize what we know about the context of the feat so that people can provide their opinion on how each part of that context affects how we should assess the feat.

Figuring out the tier of sinking Atlantis requires us determining a size, timeframe, & methodology for it, & I wanna help us assess how best to determine those things!

Hopefully this helps, &/or is appreciable. Sorry for any bother.

 

[GyroNutz]

I was asked to comment here, while I believe this is mostly a calc issue at this point I'm fine with scaling Klarion's feats to himself and Fate, and Child's feats to herself when given the powers of the chaos lords.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. That seems fine to me as well.

 

[Imaginym]

I was asked to comment here, while I believe this is mostly a calc issue at this point I'm fine with scaling Klarion's feats to himself and Fate, and Child's feats to herself when given the powers of the chaos lords.

& I assume since you aren't a Calc Group member or such, you lack much opinion on what to the assessment of info about the Atlantis sinking feat?

 

[Antvasima]

& I assume since you aren't a Calc Group member or such, you lack much opinion on what to the assessment of info about the Atlantis sinking feat?

@GyroNutz

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, what do we currently need to do here?

 

[Galvino]

Anyway, what do we currently need to do here?

Figure out if any of the calc members want to do the calc for sinking atlantis.

At least Large Building level, likely higher (Likely equal to Klarion and Doctor Fate), far higher with the added power of all the Lords of Chaos (Received the combined power of all the Chaos Lords, making her immensely superior to the combined force of Klarion, Doctor Fate, Zatanna, Etrigan and other Magic wielders and allowing her to casually defeat them)

Then there's this edit I suggested for Child's page that you approved. I can apply if it seems alright to you.

 

[Antvasima]

Figure out if any of the calc members want to do the calc for sinking atlantis.

Well, you can ask about it in the thread linked below, and mention that I would appreciate the help, if you wish:

Calculation Requests Thread (New forum)

This is the official thread for requesting calcs to be done by the members of the Calc Group and other senior editors. However, this help is entirely optional, and the people who do the requesting cannot expect that anybody will somehow be automatically interested in doing the requested calcs...

vsbattles.com

Then there's this edit I suggested for Child's page that you approved. I can apply if it seems alright to you.

That seems fine to me, yes.

 

[Galvino]

Well, you can ask about it in the thread linked below, and mention that I would appreciate the help, if you wish:

Calculation Requests Thread (New forum)

This is the official thread for requesting calcs to be done by the members of the Calc Group and other senior editors. However, this help is entirely optional, and the people who do the requesting cannot expect that anybody will somehow be automatically interested in doing the requested calcs...

vsbattles.com

That seems fine to me, yes.

Okay I have applied the changes and also made a post in the calc thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[GyroNutz]

& I assume since you aren't a Calc Group member or such, you lack much opinion on what to the assessment of info about the Atlantis sinking feat?

The full feat was done over an unknown timeframe - after all both Savage and Klarion talk about long periods of time as if they were short. If we're being precise, the only info we know for sure is the damage done to the Atlantis city. I believe your suggestion about it being an earthquake could be feasible.

 

[Imaginym]

The full feat was done over an unknown timeframe - after all both Savage and Klarion talk about long periods of time as if they were short. If we're being precise, the only info we know for sure is the damage done to the Atlantis city. I believe your suggestion about it being an earthquake could be feasible.

That seems reasonable, although I would assume we know at least the MINIMUM amount of time the feat took, based on seeing things like parts of the city collapsing. Although, other than establing low ends, that doesn't accomplish much.

Can a yield be gained from an earthquake without a timeframe?

 

[Antvasima]

I assume since you aren't a Calc Group member or such, you lack much opinion on what to the assessment of info about the Atlantis sinking feat?

The full feat was done over an unknown timeframe - after all both Savage and Klarion talk about long periods of time as if they were short. If we're being precise, the only info we know for sure is the damage done to the Atlantis city. I believe your suggestion about it being an earthquake could be feasible.

That seems reasonable, although I would assume we know at least the MINIMUM amount of time the feat took, based on seeing things like parts of the city collapsing. Although, other than establing low ends, that doesn't accomplish much.

Can a yield be gained from an earthquake without a timeframe?

@Dark-Carioca

 

[Abysswalker2126]

I mean the size of Atlantis isn't the issue, I'm just not sure how to calculate it sinking. Just the energy of it dropping into the sea floor? The energy of all the water covering the land?

Super late but I asked in Q and A how to calc sinking feats and someone answered and we might have some examples of sinking feat calcs on other profiles https://vsbattles.com/threads/how-do-you-calc-sinking-feats.148584/#post-5437490

 

[Antvasima]

Super late but I asked in Q and A how to calc sinking feats and someone answered and we might have some examples of sinking feat calcs on other profiles https://vsbattles.com/threads/how-do-you-calc-sinking-feats.148584/#post-5437490

@Dark-Carioca @M3X_2.0 @Armorchompy @Migue79 @DemonGodMitchAubin

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

According to the creator, Atlantis had a population in the millions:

5. Not looking for a hard number but do you know how many Atlanteans there are in terms of population? Is it in the thousands, hundred thousands, millions, etc... 5. Across ALL of Atlantis? Millions.

Atlantis is stated to extend to an entire continent:

Soon, Vandar Adg's simple village had grown into a gleaming city. And with Varl'jat's martial help, that city expanded to become capital of a kingdom spanning the entire Atlantean Continent. (Young Justice Season 4 episode 10 Nomed Esir!)

In the sinking scene, we see that it is about as long as Africa.

We can use the above two images to get an accurate estimation of size.

 

[Alsotime]

According to the creator, Atlantis had a population in the millions:

Has, that’s referring to current Atlantis

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I mean the size of Atlantis isn't the issue, I'm just not sure how to calculate it sinking. Just the energy of it dropping into the sea floor? The energy of all the water covering the land?

Super late but I asked in Q and A how to calc sinking feats and someone answered and we might have some examples of sinking feat calcs on other profiles https://vsbattles.com/threads/how-do-you-calc-sinking-feats.148584/#post-5437490

According to the creator, Atlantis had a population in the millions:

5. Not looking for a hard number but do you know how many Atlanteans there are in terms of population? Is it in the thousands, hundred thousands, millions, etc... 5. Across ALL of Atlantis? Millions.

Atlantis is stated to extend to an entire continent:

Soon, Vandar Adg's simple village had grown into a gleaming city. And with Varl'jat's martial help, that city expanded to become capital of a kingdom spanning the entire Atlantean Continent. (Young Justice Season 4 episode 10 Nomed Esir!)

In the sinking scene, we see that it is about as long as Africa.

We can use the above two images to get an accurate estimation of size.

@Dark-Carioca @M3X_2.0 @Armorchompy @Migue79 @DemonGodMitchAubin @KLOL506 @Damage3245 @Mr._Bambu

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Ugarik @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @Dalesean027 @DemiiPowa

We really need some help to finish this thread, so help would be very appreciated.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/young-justice-upgrade-spoilers.129005/post-5451559

 

[Dalesean027]

@Ugarik @Dark-Carioca @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @Dalesean027 @DemiiPowa

We really need some help to finish this thread, so help would be very appreciated.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/young-justice-upgrade-spoilers.129005/post-5451559

Can't really give input right now. I'm at work

Sorry Ant

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. It is perfectly fine if you handle it later.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Has, that’s referring to current Atlantis

Fair enough. Not far fetched though due to them building skyscrapers and having cities spread across the continent.

---

Anyways, I calc'd the sinking feat:

Young Justice: A Witch Boy sinks Atlantis

vsbattles.fandom.com

If it passes evaluation, we just need to decide on the scaling.

 

[Antvasima]

Fair enough. Not far fetched though due to them building skyscrapers and having cities spread across the continent.

---

Anyways, I calc'd the sinking feat:

Young Justice: A Witch Boy sinks Atlantis

vsbattles.fandom.com

If it passes evaluation, we just need to decide on the scaling.

@Dark-Carioca @M3X_2.0 @Dalesean027

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The Lords of Order and Chaos are on a tier of their own, so it seems no one else would scale.
If there is inconsistency, we can rate "up to Multi-Continental" if Klarion/Fate can't consistently display this power.
We can also argue that Klarion was empowered by the other Chaos Lords to sink the continent (empowered Child has feats like erecting mountains/volcanoes, and creating massive pillars of fire that can be seen from space), and just scale him for a city-sinking earthquake, but I don't think there is evidence beyond the other Chaos Lords liking what he is doing.

Some potential calcable feats:

 

[Galvino]

There is that feat Fate has that's Multi-Continental with the Fate Shield or what not already on his profile, this calc could be consistent with that.

 

[Antvasima]

Fair enough. Not far fetched though due to them building skyscrapers and having cities spread across the continent.

---

Anyways, I calc'd the sinking feat:

Young Justice: A Witch Boy sinks Atlantis

vsbattles.fandom.com

If it passes evaluation, we just need to decide on the scaling.

@Dalesean027

Thank you very much for helping out. However, did you properly evaluate this feat or just take a quick glance?

 

[Dalesean027]

@Dalesean027

Thank you very much for helping out. However, did you properly evaluate this feat or just take a quick glance?

Its good to go I took another look at it

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out.

I think that the result can be used in the character profile pages that scale to it then.

 

[Galvino]

So yeah other than Klarion, only Fate and Child can scale to this calc.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems good to apply then. Is somebody here willing to handle it please?

 

[Dark-Carioca]

@Dark-Carioca @M3X_2.0 @Dalesean027

I've evaluated it

 

[Antvasima]

I've evaluated it

Thank you very much for helping out.

So yeah other than Klarion, only Fate and Child can scale to this calc.

Okay. That seems good to apply then. Is somebody here willing to handle it please?

@Galvino @ShadowWhoWalks @Abysswalker2126 @Shadyboi0 @It_is_i_wyatt @Setsuna_tenma @Mageman460 @Imaginym @Dark-Carioca

 

[Galvino]

Klarion:
Tier: At least High 8-C, up to High 6-A.

Attack Potency: At least Large Building level (Far above magical users like Wizard, Blackbriar Thorn, Wotan, Felix Faust or Zatanna, the latter's magic being described by Klarion as "baby magic" before he overpowered her with a casual gesture. Easily defeated the entire Young Justice team and is vastly superior to any of its members and their combined force. Vandal Savage stated that Klarion is strong enough to completely wipe out Starro's inbound fleet with ease. Is equal to and possibly stronger than Doctor Fate.), up to Multi-Continent level (Sank the entire continent of Atlantis into the ocean.)

Child:
Tier: At least High 8-C, up to High 6-A, far higher with the added power of all the Chaos Lords.

Attack Potency: At least Large Building level, up to Multi-Continent level (Likely equal to Klarion), far higher with the added power of all the Chaos Lords (Received the combined power of all the Chaos Lords, making her immensely superior to the combined force of Klarion, Doctor Fate, Zatanna, Etrigan and other Magic wielders and allowing her to casually defeat them.)

Doctor Fate:
Tier: At least High 8-C, up to High 6-A.

Attack Potency: At least Large Building level, up to Multi-Continent level (One of the most powerful sorcerers in the world, likely equal to Klarion.)
---
Do these changes seem fine?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The upgrade will also extend to durability due to Doctor Fate blocking the War World's laser and missiles.

I support the up-to rating, per Greg Doctor Fate's power is severely limited if the host lacks stamina or magical affinity, and Klarion usually holds back a lot when he isn't angry (but when he is angry he stomps everyone besides Doctor Fate and Child).

If there are no objections, I will apply the upgrades in ~12 hours.

 

[Galvino]

The upgrade will also extend to durability due to Doctor Fate blocking the War World's laser and missiles.

You think Doctor Fate's physical body scales to his shield is what you're saying?

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Currently Doctor Fate is the only character whose Durability rating makes distinction between physical durability (which would be enhanced by magic) and shield durability.

It would be more along the line of having the Durability have a similar format to the AP. So something like: At least Town level (comparable to Klarion), up to Multi-Continental level ([War World feat]).

But if you prefer it to be: "up to Multi-Continental level with magical shields", I am fine with that.

 

[Galvino]

Currently Doctor Fate is the only character whose Durability rating makes distinction between physical durability (which would be enhanced by magic) and shield durability.

It would be more along the line of having the Durability have a similar format to the AP. So something like: At least Town level (comparable to Klarion), up to Multi-Continental level ([War World feat]).

But if you prefer it to be: "up to Multi-Continental level with magical shields", I am fine with that.

What do you think of Flaw cracking his helmet with just one punch? Do you think the big explosion right before that did too much damage and the punch didn't crack helmet by itself? Or do you think it was an outlier or off guard thing?