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Their reactive power either comes from mass murder or from willing themself to be 2-B.CrackerVolley said:
I don't think either is really an option here.
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Yoshikage Kira vs. Frisk (Of Pacifism And Endless Murder) (Voting Completed)
- Thread starter Starter_Pack
- Start date
- Status
I don't think either is really an option here.
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How do you think Frisk was able to fend off enemies with much higher stats than them?
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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Befriending them.
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What about the Neutral route?
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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Technically you can befriend everyone in the neutral route too only needing to fight Asgore, but I'm pretty sure all the monsters frisk fights aren't too much stronger then them anyway, at least not enough to be an AP stomp.
EDIT: Notable execptions would be Ghosts, who are immune to physical damage, and Mettaton's first form, which has way too much defence.
EDIT: Notable execptions would be Ghosts, who are immune to physical damage, and Mettaton's first form, which has way too much defence.
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By exploiting their weakness to emotions that allows Frisk attacks to become that much more deadly.CrackerVolley said:
And by none of the monsters being that strong, with a lv 1 Frisk being able to kill Toriel.
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Bump
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- Thread starter
- #88
Bump.
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Geist Grace vs Yoshikage Kira when?
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- Thread starter
- #90
Soon.
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- Thread starter
- #91
Bump.
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Still waiting on that match.
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- Thread starter
- #93
Bump.
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ngl i just want this match to be closed. it hasn't broken any rules, it just hurts my head the more i think about it.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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I still don't think Kira has a win-con here.
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- Thread starter
- #96
There's been worse...CrackerVolley said:
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You should change the OP since a Geist Grace profile is a thing now
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Make it a new match.
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One of the reasons I made the profile was so that Starter Pack could do the match he came up with. I won't steal the honors from him.
(Also I wanna be able to vote on the thread kek)
(Also I wanna be able to vote on the thread kek)
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- #100
I'll make it soon. I just wanna add the final potential spells he can get through Glossolalia before I do so.
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- Thread starter
- #101
Two month long bump.
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Alright, Imma just say it
Frisk oneshots
Frisk oneshots
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- Thread starter
- #103
How exactly? Frisk first has to bypass Killer Queen in order to get to him, and while Frisk can one-shot Kira himself, they also get one-shot by basically anything Kira does to them.
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Killer Queen wouldn't be able to hold Frisk back.
And how would... wait, can Killer Queen turn people into bombs too?
And how would... wait, can Killer Queen turn people into bombs too?
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- Thread starter
- #105
You tell me.
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bruh
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- #107
Nope, ain't letting anyone go without answering who wins here.
Bump.
Bump.
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I'm angry because nobody put this here.
KIRALOVANIA
KIRALOVANIA
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Can anyone recap what we've decided so far and what's being debated now?
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Basically, the main debate is whether RESET or BtD is superior to the other. On one hand, anything that Kira does to try to kill Frisk will end with them resetting themselves. On the other hand, if Kira activates BtD, then they're stuck on Kira's timer. Unfortunately, they still have access to RESET, and their LOAD usually brings them back to some time before a fight.
So, there's that, and also trying to figure out if either Kira or Frisk has a way of incapping or even killing the other. Frisk could kill Kira easily, but Killer Queen can also kill Frisk easily.
So, this one's been a headache, that's for sure.
So, there's that, and also trying to figure out if either Kira or Frisk has a way of incapping or even killing the other. Frisk could kill Kira easily, but Killer Queen can also kill Frisk easily.
So, this one's been a headache, that's for sure.
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,236
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This is sounding really inconclusive.
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If that's the main conflict, I don't think this is that complicated. But let's go over some questions.
1. Frisk and Kira can both just LOAD/RESET or Bites the Dust if either of them dies, right? Likewise, can either of them do this while Unconscious? Your body being gone is one thing, but if it's still intact but not functional enough to think?
2. What are the statistical values for their AP, Striking Strength & Durability of our combatants? I know the OP said Frisk has higher determination than usual (& more Determination means more Durability.), & killing might not be feasible... knowing how well they match up can give us an idea if they can knock one another out. Presumably, they're pretty close, with Killer Queen being 8-C & Frisk being 9-A.
3. They both remember their experiences of scenarios they SAVED/LOADED/RESETED or Bites the Dust-'ed, right?
Supposing the answers to 1 & 3 are yes, there might be a conclusive option.
If Kira remembers his experiences, he can trial & error. And unlike Frisk, he has a stand, with its own set of limbs.
Frisk's Lifting Strength is: Likely Regular Human (Able to carry the Annoying Dog)
Kira's Lifting Strength is: Athletic Human, Unknow with Killer Queen
As Yoshikage Kira, Kira was able to lift his hand while it was weighed down by the ability of Echoes Act 3, which... well, our Wiki says "the perceived weight of it was 40-50 kilograms when reflected back onto Yoshikage Kira." IIRC, Kosaku Kawajiri is a pretty big man, so he might of similar strength to Kira's original body. With that weight, he walked to Koichi.
Frisk probably lifted the Annoying Dog with both hands, which the Undertale Wiki speculates is a Samoyed breed. Google tells me males of that breed can weigh 20 to 30 kg.
So, if Kira in this form can maintain a lifting strength of 40 to 50 kg on one hand with difficulty, & Frisk needs both hands to handle an average of 25 kg, Kira might be able to hold Frisk's arms in place with his own hands.
By holding Frisk's hands in place, he could prevent Frisk from punching, kicking, using a knife to stab, etc. And the size of their limbs is probably great enough that he could do it with enough distance to avoid being kicked or headbutted by the kid.
Sure he might not have as great an AP/SS as Frisk, but he has the Lifting Strength to keep them restrained, & he might need only moments for Killer Queen to act. It gets slightly easier if they can bring the kid near unconsciousness, too.
From there, Kira just has to use his extra set of limbs: Use Killer Queen to deal a knockout blow, such as by striking the back of Frisk's head, or cover/pinch Frisk's nostrils & cover the kid's mouth to deprive their brain of oxygen so they fall unconscious. 'course, they'd have to be careful not to kill Frisk, or they have to start all over again.
With enough trial & error, Kira might be able to work out a plan like this. From there, it's just a matter of fighting skillfully enough to actually achieve it, which could be inevitable if they keep killing each other & starting over.
1. Frisk and Kira can both just LOAD/RESET or Bites the Dust if either of them dies, right? Likewise, can either of them do this while Unconscious? Your body being gone is one thing, but if it's still intact but not functional enough to think?
2. What are the statistical values for their AP, Striking Strength & Durability of our combatants? I know the OP said Frisk has higher determination than usual (& more Determination means more Durability.), & killing might not be feasible... knowing how well they match up can give us an idea if they can knock one another out. Presumably, they're pretty close, with Killer Queen being 8-C & Frisk being 9-A.
3. They both remember their experiences of scenarios they SAVED/LOADED/RESETED or Bites the Dust-'ed, right?
Supposing the answers to 1 & 3 are yes, there might be a conclusive option.
If Kira remembers his experiences, he can trial & error. And unlike Frisk, he has a stand, with its own set of limbs.
Frisk's Lifting Strength is: Likely Regular Human (Able to carry the Annoying Dog)
Kira's Lifting Strength is: Athletic Human, Unknow with Killer Queen
As Yoshikage Kira, Kira was able to lift his hand while it was weighed down by the ability of Echoes Act 3, which... well, our Wiki says "the perceived weight of it was 40-50 kilograms when reflected back onto Yoshikage Kira." IIRC, Kosaku Kawajiri is a pretty big man, so he might of similar strength to Kira's original body. With that weight, he walked to Koichi.
Frisk probably lifted the Annoying Dog with both hands, which the Undertale Wiki speculates is a Samoyed breed. Google tells me males of that breed can weigh 20 to 30 kg.
So, if Kira in this form can maintain a lifting strength of 40 to 50 kg on one hand with difficulty, & Frisk needs both hands to handle an average of 25 kg, Kira might be able to hold Frisk's arms in place with his own hands.
By holding Frisk's hands in place, he could prevent Frisk from punching, kicking, using a knife to stab, etc. And the size of their limbs is probably great enough that he could do it with enough distance to avoid being kicked or headbutted by the kid.
Sure he might not have as great an AP/SS as Frisk, but he has the Lifting Strength to keep them restrained, & he might need only moments for Killer Queen to act. It gets slightly easier if they can bring the kid near unconsciousness, too.
From there, Kira just has to use his extra set of limbs: Use Killer Queen to deal a knockout blow, such as by striking the back of Frisk's head, or cover/pinch Frisk's nostrils & cover the kid's mouth to deprive their brain of oxygen so they fall unconscious. 'course, they'd have to be careful not to kill Frisk, or they have to start all over again.
With enough trial & error, Kira might be able to work out a plan like this. From there, it's just a matter of fighting skillfully enough to actually achieve it, which could be inevitable if they keep killing each other & starting over.
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Yeah, thanks to the above post, imma say kira.
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Kira wouldn't remember Frisk's LOADS since Kira's never delt with an ability like that, and he didn't even remember Bites the Dust's time reversals when they were activated by Hayato. Frisk was able to easily remember Flowey's saves and loads.
If anyone can win with trail and error, it's Frisk. They probably can make Kira give up with social influencing or incap him with sing. Sure, it would be hard, but it's possible. It's better then waht Kira has.
If anyone can win with trail and error, it's Frisk. They probably can make Kira give up with social influencing or incap him with sing. Sure, it would be hard, but it's possible. It's better then waht Kira has.
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Yeah. It is very,very likely.
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Kira doesn't remember, Hayato does. But he can analyse the behaviour of people and tell that a loop is occurring.
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Being able to tell a loop happened and being able to use that information in a useful way are very different. He'd probably assume he gave Bites the Dust to someone else.
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