Yhwach, Destroyer of Worlds (Bleach God Tier Revision)

[Cyberblader90]

ok so i will wait for my response back. Have work, and put in a translation request for this response. in the mean time i will respond with this:

Per memories of nobody, we are shown the dangai is durable enough to have senna's explosions detonate, and remain entirely intact, which have been calced at small planet+. if we go with damage's entire argument, he still acknowledges this construct has to be destroyed by yhwach, meaning yhwach's ap > senna's output

 

[AKUTO123]

according to him, Ichibe and the other guards scale to Ichigo so yeah

They don't scale to someone but scaling wouldn't be a problem either, as long as it makes sense. DB and many other series also have large scaling chains, and this is quite natural and possible.

 

[Purgy]

No they are high 6As cause they are high 6As, and their ratings are okay cause they have feats, upscale or statements that says they are with the wiki standards
And also kubo never called them low 2C or 3A.

They're High 6-A because that's what was agreed upon in a CRT, it's completely subjective, what you perceive their correct rating to be can be completely different to what someone else perceives them to be.

Regardless, what is even the point of this argument? I don't get it.

A high 6A will need to absorb low 2C energy to become low 2C, which means the weakened SK is low 2C, the ichigo that sliced wsk becomes low 2C from cutting through a low 2C cause according to you "your durability can't drop by infinity" anyone that scales to the ichigo including the likes of ichibei and the guards becomes low 2C too?

If we go by your logic, Pernida, Mimihagi and Gerard would have infinite power as well, since you can't divide infinity without that division then being infinite itself. A division of infinite is still infinite right?

Also, neither Ichibe or The Royal Guards come close to TS Ichigo, I have no idea how you reached this conclusion, Ichibe was one shot by The Almighty Yhwach whereas TS Ichigo was considered impressive by SK Yhwach and the Royal Guard (aside from Ichibe) were a joke.

The flaw in the entire thing is alarming and yes I believe the ratings are okay as they currently are.

Cool, you're allowed to have an opinion, even if the evidence presented clearly proves it wrong.

 

[YukaSama4]

They don't scale to someone but scaling wouldn't be a problem either, as long as it makes sense. DB and many other series also have large scaling chains, and this is quite natural and possible.

Lmao they dont scale to Ichigo, their leader was reduced to salad 5 seconds after Yhwach restored his powers, Ichigo fought a far stronger Yhwach

 

[Tyri456]

This makes sense to me.

I'm also gonna add again, I pointed out earlier, but people didn't seem to notice. Even if we take the assumption as the OP puts it and consider the garganta as being the "boundary between the realms", Garganta is not technically a boundary, but it can act as such, or rather, only the limited portion of Garganta present between the realms that separates them would be the "boundaries" according to that logic.

So even if we take that case, at best the feat would be unquantifiable due to destroying limited specific part of garganta that is acting as a boundary. The destruction of the entire garganta, as is assumed, is not even necessary to "remove the boundaries" and eventually return everything back to achieve the end goal as a result, as it is stated.

Because it doesn’t make sense.
you are just reading a phrase without taking into consideration what Yhwach say and was doing at the end. And just focusing on it instead of the context.

Soul society was initially getting destroyed by the inside by his energy, it was literally expading from his body to the environment, read the last chapter. What you are doing is just taking a phrase without acknowledging the rest.

 

[PrinceofPein]

According to you, what should a character do or what it can do to be universal? Ignore it as it has been stated many times that the character can destroy universes? Is it unreasonable for the character to step up like this? I guess, with your logic, no character can go above the level it is in.

No character??
I guess people can't read anymore, read what I typed again about becoming low 2C, I'm sure you will find it

according to him, Ichibe and the other guards scale to Ichigo so yeah

Let me ignore the fact that you can't think and dont understand sarcasm
Ichibei literally contended with yhwach that scales above the ichigo that cut the wsk

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Minor correction. The length of it is about relative to the dimensions, while the tube is nowhere near as thick.

It seemed to me in the scan that instead of a cube of the magnitude of the two universal-sized dimensions, it was more like a diagram that was miniaturized from perspective, with its dimensions underestimated.

 

[Purgy]

Let me ignore the fact that you can't think and dont understand sarcasm
Ichibei literally contended with yhwach that scales above the ichigo that cut the wsk

Enlighten us on how an Ichibe that was one shot effortlessly by Pre-SK Yhwach is comparable to someone SK Yhwach considered impressive?

 

[YukaSama4]

Lol, Id suggest ignoring him because he is derailing the thread with nonsense, I suggest waiting for Cyber to respond to damage points so the thread dont become 10 pages for a discussion about scaling Ohetsu and Ichibe to Ichigo

 

[Cyberblader90]

It seemed to me in the scan that instead of a cube of the magnitude of the two universal-sized dimensions, it was more like a diagram that was miniaturized from perspective, with its dimensions underestimated.

well here is the other model provided in the manga

 

[PrinceofPein]

They're High 6-A because that's what was agreed upon in a CRT, it's completely subjective, what you perceive their correct rating to be can be completely different to what someone else perceives them to be.

They are high 6A cause that was the feat provided and they shouldn't become low 2C cause we think kubo wanted yhwach to be a god no one can contend with then he gets one shotted by someone who has no basis for being low 2C

Regardless, what is even the point of this argument? I don't get it.

I honestly dont know

If we go by your logic, Pernida, Mimihagi and Gerard would have infinite power as well, since you can't divide infinity without that division then being infinite itself. A division of infinite is still infinite right?

Yes thats my point

Also, neither Ichibe or The Royal Guards come close to TS Ichigo, I have no idea how you reached this conclusion, Ichibe was one shot by The Almighty Yhwach whereas TS Ichigo was considered impressive by SK Yhwach and the Royal Guard (aside from Ichibe) were a joke.

Was talking about the ichigo that sliced the wsk, the guards was sarcasm

 

[AKUTO123]

No character??
I guess people can't read anymore, read what I typed again about becoming low 2C, I'm sure you will find it

Let me ignore the fact that you can't think and dont understand sarcasm
Ichibei literally contended with yhwach that scales above the ichigo that cut the wsk

yhwach Almigthy one shot ichibei? Ichigo Almigthy fought with yhwach?
ts Ichigo> ichibei? Have you read the series, I just want to ask. I don't want to think that someone reading the series will write something like this

 

[Cyberblader90]

put in translation requests, so we might have to wait for that:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3749169

 

[AKUTO123]

The yhwach you speak of, the soul king, mimihagi, yhwach before sucking. Ichigo; Soul king and mimihagi fought with sucked yhwach, do you think it's the same thing?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Enlighten us on how an Ichibe that was one shot effortlessly by Pre-SK Yhwach is comparable to someone SK Yhwach considered impressive?

U mean ragdolled?

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

well here is the other model provided in the manga

Wait, that black void (I thought it was decoration) was Garganta? Could this refute what I said, because Garganta has to cover the entire SS and Living World as a representation, what I mean is to reduce the dimensions from the perspective I said, but it is known that Garganta covers both of these dimensions completely, and it would be wrong to give them reduce of their size in scanning in these two dimensions. (I'll think about that a little more)

 

[PrinceofPein]

yhwach Almigthy one shot ichibei? Ichigo Almigthy fought with yhwach?
ts Ichigo> ichibei? Have you read the series, I just want to ask. I don't want to think that someone reading the series will write something like this

Yhwach ragdolled ichigo there is a difference and yes I've read the series and considering all things with ichibei hax, yes he is comparable to TS ichigo

 

[Purgy]

U mean ragdolled?

I mean Yhwach commenting on his Reiatsu, Ichigo being unharmed from several of Yhwach's attacks, Yhwach deciding to block Ichigo's attacks instead of tanking them etc

No matter how you look at it, Ichigo's showings are infinitely better than Ichibe being effortlessly one shot by a much weaker Yhwach.

Ichibe is fodder to Ichigo in terms of physicals, obviously hax is another matter but that's irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Reio35]

This makes sense to me.

I'm also gonna add again, I pointed out earlier, but people didn't seem to notice. Even if we take the assumption as the OP puts it and consider the garganta as being the "boundary between the realms", Garganta is not technically a boundary, but it can act as such, or rather, only the limited portion of Garganta present between the realms that separates them would be the "boundaries" according to that logic.

So even if we take that case, at best the feat would be unquantifiable due to destroying limited specific part of garganta that is acting as a boundary. The destruction of the entire garganta, as is assumed, is not even necessary to "remove the boundaries" and eventually return everything back to achieve the end goal as a result, as it is stated.

The garganta is a infinite space-time. So removing a little is still uni+. But damage arguments doesn't make a lot of sense. Yhwach clearly said he was going to destroy and merge the realms.Not once did he ever mention the dangai having any involvement. It's clearly shown to be done with power as he stated hes reshaping them with his power. It's also stated twice by tokinada that a soul king can reshape the realms how they like.

And even if we go with the boundary thing these boundaries are strong enough to keep the realms from merging into universe. Which still makes yhwach universal

 

[YukaSama4]

obviously hax is another matter but that's irrelevant to the discussion.

Battles of soul reapers are battles of reiatsu so it doesnt matter

 

[AKM sama]

Garganta is proven to be infinite in this very thread...so destroying even portion of it is H3A.....

Don't know what you're saying. But I suggest you get familiar with the system. That is not how things work.

 

[Damage3245]

The garganta is a infinite space-time. So removing a little is still uni+.

Destroying a finite amount of something infinite is not an infinite feat.

But damage arguments doesn't make a lot of sense. Yhwach clearly said he was going to destroy and merge the realms.Not once did he ever mention the dangai having any involvement.

Not once did he mention the Garganta either.

It's clearly shown to be done with power as he stated hes reshaping them with his power. It's also stated twice by tokinada that a soul king can reshape the realms how they like.

Nobody's questioning that.

 

[Cyberblader90]

ill have a write up in a few hours, just waiting on a translation (damage had recommended at on point looking into the raw for dangai boundary) and to finish my job. Its also better we dont rush this. Give the thread a bit of time to breathe and approach all angles.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Destroying a finite amount of something infinite is not an infinite feat.

Strange considering this was the argument used to say that SK can’t be Low 2-C when Shinigami were destroying the eyes that fell to Seireitei. Stop with the double standards please.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Destroying some of part in Garganta should also mean that its continuity(universelly) will not full destroy, and it should be 3-A, but it seems very counterintuitive to me not to accept the fact that Yhwach is reshaping Living World and not saying low 2-C. That is not how things work.(2)

 

[YukaSama4]

Destroying a finite amount of something infinite is not an infinite feat.

I no longer understand how infinite works here to be honest..
once yall said that an infinite doesnt work like that on the matter of the remnants of Reio, and no matter how u take from it thats still infinite because it cant be divided or whatever, now its something different. If im missing something here, Id appreciate if someone care to explain or at least give a link for a page from the wiki that explains (if it exists)

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Let’s look at it a different way and start with Prime Reio. Is he tier 2 for actually making everything with his raw power?

 

[KingTempest]

I no longer understand how infinite works here to be honest..
once yall said that an infinite doesnt work like that on the matter of the remnants of Reio, and no matter how u take from it thats still infinite because it cant be divided or whatever, now its something different. If im missing something here, Id appreciate if someone care to explain or at least give a link for a page from the wiki that explains (if it exists)

A universe can be infinite in size.
Running a meter is still running part of the universe.
It doesn't give you infinite speed.

An object can have infinite mass.
If you take a handful of it, doesn't mean you're holding infinite mass.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i think the argument is garganta is high 3-a/low 2c, but dangai would not be

correct me if im wrong

 

[M11UTD]

I think he means they'll only destroy the part that covers the 3 worlds, but the 3 worlds already accepted as universes (or at least SS & WotL) so idk how that changes anything.

 

[YukaSama4]

A universe can be infinite in size.
Running a meter is still running part of the universe.
It doesn't give you infinite speed.

An object can have infinite mass.
If you take a handful of it, doesn't mean you're holding infinite mass.

So by the same way, an energy can be infinite, but you can take 5 joules from it right? if no please explain why

 

[KingTempest]

So by the same way, an energy can be infinite, but you can take 5 joules from it right? if no please explain why

From my knowledge, that's how it works.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Let’s look at it a different way and start with Prime Reio. Is he tier 2 for actually making everything with his raw power?

For living World, infinite time points have been mentioned (ideal for universal continuity) and known to be of universal size because living world is a reference to our universe, which makes it low 2-c.

For SS, it is said to be parallel, but since it is not known whether it is only materially, as a single time point, or within the entire universal continuum of Living World, it cannot be more than a straight 3-A.

Garganta includes these, there's infinite and spacetime, yeah that's low 2-c (Also Garganta doesn't need to be infinite size anyway, Universal continuity is sufficient for low 2-c.)

All I see here is uni + to low multi

 

[YukaSama4]

From my knowledge, that's how it works.

but iirc that was rejected in the previous downgrades and it was used as an argument against the WSK, that if he is low 2C then it doesnt matter how much those remnants were they would still low 2C, it can never be less than that

 

[Cyberblader90]

ill be back in a few hours

 

[KingTempest]

but iirc that was rejected in the previous downgrades and it was used as an argument against the WSK, that if he is low 2C then it doesnt matter how much those remnants were they would still low 2C, it can never be less than that

 

[YukaSama4]

nvm, thank you

 

[Tyri456]

Even the boundaries of the universe have a circumference of 290 billion light-years multiply by 2 in this case, the destruction of them would probably lead an area of the equivalent of a galaxy or even higher. that need to be destroyed by Yhwach.

Anyway, I already explained how the feat should be interpreted, with the scaling.

 

[AKM sama]

I no longer understand how infinite works here to be honest

I guess a relatable example would be why we don't give characters like Vegeta a Low 2-C rating for destroying the RoSaT which is a separate spacetime continuum, despite him working with a limited amount of 4D in this case, which is a degree of infinity above 3D. These feats are treated as unquantifiable.

Just because something is infinite, doesn't mean destroying a portion of it would be infinite. Like KingTempest said, you can still run 5 meters on an infinite race track. Without any proper measure, it would be considered unquantifiable at best.

Although, I think that is a secondary point at best. I think Damage's previous explanation is all that needs to be considered for this case.

 

[KingTempest]

nvm, thank you

Yeah no problem.

But if anyone more knowledgeable about the tiering system doesn't agree w/ what I said above, I'd probably take their word for it. I'm not an expert w/ splitting up infinities.