Yang weakness Removal

[Nico-v11]

"according to WoG Yang has slight difficulty against those who kick more often than not however this is only a minor inconvenience that hasn't resulted in anything"

Ok so if no one has problem I'll add this as the weakness and remove the dodging portion entirely.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Go for it

 

[Nico-v11]

Done

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay so another thing that needs to be removed, with the changes to the series thus far the Red shells that Yang uses in the Yellow Trailer were retconned both visibly and functionally as Yang as not only never used them outside of the Yellow Trailer but due to the change in the function of the Ember Celica especially after the timeskip its physically impossible for her to have swappable shots with her weapons. Red Shells should be removed because of this.

Also since the function of the Ember Celica was changed from shotgun shells to her punches creating pulses of energy, the description of the Ember Celica should be changed to reflect this.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

For the record weekly beleives that meber celia no longer uses ammuntion and can be fired indefinitly now. I don't have much of a stance atm just explaining part of what he means.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Correct, as in the Yellow Trailer she was shown to only have 12 shots per gauntlet while there are fights where she lets off over 40 shots with no reloads and her post-timeskip gauntlet visibly does not have "Shells" at all, with the canon description of the Ember Celica saying that it does not use ammunition.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Can you link the cannon description? Im just dubious of the argument she fires more shots then she should because Ive seen pistols fire off forty shots without reloading before, (In one egregious movie someone fired off three shots from a flintlock pistol without reloading)


thus im not sure about giving the ability to fire indefinitely because animators are lazy. The gauntlets not appearing to have ammo is good but again Im not completly sold on the matter as from a few descriptions Ive seen the ammo is internal.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>thus im not sure about giving the ability to fire indefinitely because animators are lazy.

Problem is the animators consistently show not only other characters reloading (In the other thread i posted scans of both Ruby and Blake needing to reload in combat) but the characters using up all of their ammo and being limited solely to melee attacks for the rest of combat (Dove using his six shots in the fight against pyrrha and then only using his sword and Nora using all of her grenades at once and solely being able to use her hammer to fight)

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Well there's also this

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ah thank you, i was trying to find that no wonder i couldnt with that name lol

But yeah there you go, the recoil of the gauntlet recharges the gauntlet's energy which is released with the next punch, it doesnt use ammunition

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I can also get the description from RT saying that her gauntlets dont use ammo or projectiles if you'd like

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Copy and paste is a powerful and dangerous ally....

It'd be good to link to that as well, Ill be on tomorrow to discuss further if neccesarry. Apologies but it's very late atm. Im just glad this is being discussed on a crt so we can put any arguments to rest one way or the other.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The recoil of her gauntlet does not recharge the energy in it. It loads another round of ammunition via recoil. That's what that description is saying.

Also if Yang only punches kinetic energy and not rounds of ammunition, how can Melanie physically cut one of Yang's projectiles in half.

Also, in the Volume 5 character short for Yang, she shoots out projectiles that do not behave like a kinetic blast at all, looping in the air before homing in on the Ursa Grimm.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

 

[Kingofwolves999]

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Kinetic energy punches do not operate like this

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also if Yang only punches kinetic energy and not rounds of ammunition, how can Melanie physically cut one of Yang's projectiles in half.

Because Yang switched to red shells, something that has since been retconned

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also if Yang only punches kinetic energy and not rounds of ammunition, how can Melanie physically cut one of Yang's projectiles in half.

Because Yang switched to red shells, something that has since been retconned

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@King Bullets sure as hell dont operate like that

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I'll post this on this thread too:

What i was referring to actually is the part of the Yellow Trailer where she had to manually load in a belt of new shells to keep firing, which was blatantly retconned seeing as every long fight after the Yellow Trailer has her firing off waaaaaaaay more than what the belt in the Yellow Trailer is able to hold and after the timeskip her weapon doesnt even have the belt at all.

So, in essence, what they retconned was how she reloads ammo, not the fact that she reloads in the first place. It's already been demonstrated, using a source that you've touted on other threads to prove points, that she reloads her rounds with every punch. So there is a mechanism for reloading her rounds.

The point im making is that Yang is specifically stated to not use ammuniton or projectiles as her weapon fires pulses of raw kinetic energy instead of bullets, coupled with th fact that not only is she never shown to load more ammunition into her weapon in any other scenario besides a retconned scene from the Yellow Trailer and the fact that her current weapon does not even have a belt of shotgun shells at all means she does not need to reload her weapon ad she cannot run out of ammunition as she does not use ammunition to begin with

If her weapon fired live chickens, I would not tout that she had 'infinite ammunition' because her weapon doesn't utilize conventional ammunition. I don't disagree that she fires energy shots instead of straight bullets, but you're kidding yourself if you think that alone means she can fire indefinitely.

No one here needs to prove to you that Yang doesn't have infinite ammo. You have to prove it yourself. Which you've done incredibly poorly thusfar.

tl;dr: Yang doesn't have infinite ammo, and I strongly oppose that aspect of this CRT and its backwards implementation of the burden of proof.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Um... The guidebook says that the recoil from Ember Celica and Yang's arm movement when punching is what "loads up another round". So yes, it does use ammo shells; even Volume 5 & 6 retain the ammo belts in the original gaunlet.

In Volume 7, her robot arm becomes thicker , so it is possible that she had to reload shells one by one in the original robotic arm design to explain the lack of room for ammo belts, and the upgrade allows for quick reload like she can do with the original gaunlets. Both gaunlets can do a total of 24 shots, so while reloading is skipped for rule of cool, it is quite possible for her to do a quick reload off-screen.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

reloading is skipped for rule of cool

Thank you for mentioning this.

It's abundantly clear that team RWBY doesn't menially keep track of how many rounds Yang has on her at any given time, and that they don't want to dump their animation budget having her do the reload she did in the Yellow Trailer, so they made up a form of reloading that makes it so that they have less moving parts to animate.

How this change is being used to argue that Yang has infinite ammo is beyond my comprehension.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

To boot, in the Adam's fight Yang explictly ejects an empty shell.

Dust is activated and manipulated by Aura, so bullets changing direction is consistent with that just like with Mercury's case.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It's abundantly clear that team RWBY doesn't menially keep track of how many rounds Yang has on her at any given time, and that they don't want to dump their animation budget having her do the reload she did in the Yellow Trailer, so they made up a form of reloading that makes it so that they have less moving parts to animate.

How this change is being used to argue that Yang has infinite ammo is beyond my comprehension.

Except they DO,because theyve kept track of literally every other character's ammo in the series as ive pointed out numerous times before, including showing characters blatantly reloading.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

To boot, in the Adam's fight Yang explictly ejects an empty shell.

Dust is activated and manipulated by Aura, so bullets changing direction is consistent with that just like with Mercury's case.

Yang doesnt use Dust

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If that weapon showed the ability to fire infinite chickens then yes, you would say that it can fire infinite chickens. Same here. Her not using conventional ammo makes no diffrence when she was stated to only have 12 shots in the trailer which was retconned to her not having a limited number of shots at all. Ive already posted multiple scans of her having unlimited shots with her weapon, thus far no evidence has been provided to counter. Burden of proof is on you to disprove it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So for the dozenth time, are any of the people who are arguing that Yang has limited ammunition going to post actual evidence of it or no? Because thus far ive given half a dozen scans of her having unlimited ammo/ammo ammounts that exponentially surpass what she was stated to have in the trailer and the only response has been 'nah youre wrong' and nothing else.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Yang doesnt use Dust

Oh? Then pray tell me what powers up her weapon (or anything in Remnant for that matter)? She uses dust bullets, hence the explosions.

If that weapon showed the ability to fire infinite chickens then yes, you would say that it can fire infinite chickens. Same here. Her not using conventional ammo makes no diffrence when she was stated to only have 12 shots in the trailer which was retconned to her not having a limited number of shots at all. Ive already posted multiple scans of her having unlimited shots with her weapon, thus far no evidence has been provided to counter. Burden of proof is on you to disprove it.

The chicken analogy depends on the context. Does it contradict official lore? Then it is an inconsistency (and fiction has plenty of inconsistencies), where writers or animators goof up attempting to make something that looks cool. Was the lore officially retconned? Then it is new cannon. Was the weapon established to have infinite ammo? Then it is consistent with cannon.

She has 12 shots per gaunlet, and she is using two gaunlets, meaning that she has a total of 24 shots before reloading. You didn't not show a clip of her shooting more than 24 rounds uninterrupted. The fact is that she has more than enough time to reload off-screen.

You are the one trying to break convention by claims of retcon, so the burden of proof (including the claim that Yang cannot reload off-screen in the many pauses, and that if such event exists then retcon is a better explanation than writers/animators doing a minor inconsistency) is on you.

Seriously, if someone went to a RWBY AMA and asked staff "does Yang's weapon (which loads and ejects shells) have infinite ammo?", what do you expect the answer to be?

"Oh yeah, we changed our mind so that Yang is secretly the Summer Maiden, and she can materialize ammo directly inside her weapon with magic now"?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I won't be continuing to respond to your argument on the Izuku thread, since discussion has moved here.

If that weapon showed the ability to fire infinite chickens then yes, you would say that it can fire infinite chickens. Same here.

Show me Yang firing infinite rounds.

Ive already posted multiple scans of her having unlimited shots with her weapon, thus far no evidence has been provided to counter. Burden of proof is on you to disprove it.

Your "scans" don't support your point in the first place; they suggest that Team RWBY changed the method by which she reloads, not that she suddenly gained the capacity to fire infinite rounds and lacked the need to reload entirely.

I'd be like me showing scans of Yang's outfit changing, saying it's evidence that she's gotten two times more powerful, and that you now need to "disprove" my claim of her being two times as powerful, when the claim itself operates on a faulty premise.

Again, stop trying to deflect the burden of proof, and start actually proving what you're saying.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I already posted scans of it. show me her needing to reload her weapon.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Because thus far ive given half a dozen scans of her having unlimited ammo

Let's go over the "scans" you posted. Spoilers, you didn't actually post half a dozen relating to Yang in total.

Yang lets off over 40 shots over the course of this fight and is never shown to need to reload once
Lets off 40+ shots here too with no reloads

"Yang can fire forty rounds in a fight without reloading" is not "Yang has infinite ammo".

https://youtu.be/5IOf8F6ChKs?t=132 Note this is canon as it was made in conjunction with RT after they acquired DB

"Note this is canon"


Video on timestamp, actively showing clip in the Yellow trailer of her reloading.

Video on timestamp, listing how she has ammunition, shells, and the fact that her gauntlets hold 12 shots each

Dude, there's info in your own evidence disproving your own points.

Also obligatory "Yang fires energy shots" is not "Yang has infinite ammo".

her post-timeskip gauntlet visibly does not have "Shells" at all, with the canon description of the Ember Celica saying that it does not use ammunition.

Obligatory "Yang doesn't use shells to fire" is not "Yang has infinite ammo".

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Post something that has not been blatantly retconnned please and thank you.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Post something that has not been blatantly retconnned please and thank you.

I'm literally quoting your own evidence. So I guess you should be asking that to yourself?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Youre not though? The only people who have been arguing the 12 shot thing is the guys against Yang having unlimited ammo, not me.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Youre not though? The only people who have been arguing the 12 shot thing is the guys against Yang having unlimited ammo, not me.

Except, in the Death Battle that you linked previously, said was canon, and are actively using to prove that she uses kinetic energy shots, it says she has 12 rounds, and it shows her reloading.

You aren't arguing it, but you're conveniently not mentioning it when it's on the exact timestamp of the video you linked.

And it doesn't even mention her having infinite ammo, just that she has energy shots. It goes out of its way to say she has limited ammo.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except she is demonstrably shown to not have limited ammo, hence why it was retconned

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Except she is demonstrably shown to not have limited ammo, hence why it was retconned

So, we go back to you saying your own sources are retconned.

The same video that says she fires kinetic energy shots also says she has twelve rounds, in the exact same segment. So if she can fire over twelve rounds, clearly the video isn't a reliable source of information for any of the other information points you want to try cherry-picking out of it.

None of which even matters, really, since nothing you've posted "demonstrably shows" that she has infinite ammo. The best you've given me is 40, which is literally infinitely away from infinity.