Xeno Goku vs Alien X (Again)

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Bump.

Also I think I made up my mind on the 5D poison thing. It’s bs. The way you argue higher-D haxes are really potent when used against lower-D beings is by saying the hax is compacted and thus more effective (which btw applies to differences in range within a certain dimensionality as well but I digress). However if you argue this for poison, you’re effectively saying DBH characters shoot an infinitely compacted gas or liquid at someone, which would create a black hole… and since Bloody Sauce doesn’t create a black hole, it’s just regular 3D poison.

This Logic doesn't work since if we apply it, 99% of fictional characters/items would turn into a black hole on the spot.

 

[Greenshifter]

True, we tend to disregard it for energy but not matter. Some people even argue Goku's ki is just higher-D all the time IIRC.

Also even if we disregard it, why is an infinitely compressed gas or liquid even good at poisoning anything?

fictional characters/items would turn into a black hole on the spot

Copying the Ben 10 conceptual black hole meta I see.

 

[Brogeefrong]

goku beats alien x cause i said so

 

[Greenshifter]

Based

 

[Greenshifter]

Have mercy on me DBH bros for I am about to do the unthinkable, the unforgivable …

 

[Prime2024]

I'm afraid Goku ain't winning this :

Alien X >>>> author level

 

[Greenshifter]

or want to kill in general

Ben does worse than just killing people:

 

[Fezzih_007]

Good ki is just a subset of normal ki, so no.

Not really, they still kinda different to say they not the same, even they are some sort of subset.

You’re still not getting it, he could sense them but he wouldn’t know they’re his opponents.

Again, If Alien X have a similar energy signature to either of the three If them, he could know.

1 universe doesn’t cover

He can sense more, so whatever.

Because Goku’s spirit bomb is stronger if there are a lot of people in the multiverse and I don’t want to restrict his spirit bomb potency.

First that this Goku don't even use Genki Dama often, or at all, Second that Goku is already stronger than Alien X so i don't think he would be pushed to try to use Genki Dama here. Third, he can still use Genki Dama by calling to other timelines people by opening a rift on space, so him being in a empty universe don't really matter. And Fourth, you say is SBA, so the universe they in would still be empty, unless you change it.

Also Goku’s BFR to King Kai’s planet necessitates that King Kai exists in the multiverse.

Based on what?

He WHAT?! Anyways different Goku so doesn’t count. That Goku’s main priority is earth anyways so it makes sense.

Well yeah, but this is just to demonstrate Goku would let people die, If he can undo everything with the Dragon Balls. This still can apply, since they have the same personality.

Already responded to this, the whole point of the poison argument is that Goku gets incapped the moment he notices he’s poisoned.

Considering he have poison resistance, he could noticed way sooner, before he can get Incapacited.

And for the next point.

What if it just causes his blood to clutter?

What If it doesn't trought? Not sure why Goku would't noticed trought.

Could just make the poison odorless my guy.

Why would he? He don't Goku above average nose.

From his perspective it would take him an infinite amount of time,

Why?

he would need to consciously look around and pick up on clues to see if the reality he is in contains the opponent he is looking for.

Considering that Ben is hiding on another dimension, and Goku can sense this type If things, and a random dimension with only 3 people are kinda suspiscious, i don't think that gonna take a long time.

There are also infinite Bens in the multiverse, so even if he recognizes the Omnitrix, there’s no guarantee he’s got the right Ben.

Why Goku would Go for different timelines?

 

[Killerdrone123]

I'm afraid Goku ain't winning this :

Alien X >>>> author level

Still lower than gokuversal

 

[Prime2024]

Fodderku still dies

 

[Killerdrone123]

Nuh uh

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I'm afraid Goku ain't winning this :

Alien X >>>> author level

Do you still believe in the alien X 26D and omnipotent?

 

[Prime2024]

Do you still believe in the alien X 26D and omnipotent?

No I was wrong, this time I believe that he's above dimensionality and plot and the whole tiering system like everything makes sense now

 

[Greenshifter]

... Technically he's right, just not based on any evidence he uses.

 

[Greenshifter]

Not really, they still kinda different to say they not the same, even they are some sort of subset.

Yeah, but they work the same so it really doesn't do anything for verse equalization. And like I said before, Time Power fits better to be verse equalized to Celestialsapiens' cosmic power.

Again, If Alien X have a similar energy signature to either of the three If them, he could know

Mana and cosmic power are 2 different power sources so their energy signatures wouldn't be equal at all. In fact mana comes from the soul while cosmic power doesn't so their fundamentality isn't even the same.

He can sense more, so whatever.

What was the evidence for this again?

First that this Goku don't even use Genki Dama often, or at all, Second that Goku is already stronger than Alien X so i don't think he would be pushed to try to use Genki Dama here

Doesn't matter, we shouldn't restrict his ability to use it to its full potential.

Third, he can still use Genki Dama by calling to other timelines people by opening a rift on space, so him being in a empty universe don't really matter

Well if you argue the other timelines aren't empty then he still wouldn't nuke the multiverse in-character. Maybe we can use this as a compromise solution? It wouldn't be as calling upon the ki of the people within the universe where the fight takes place though. I also assume it would be easier for Goku to teleport to the King Kai's planet that he's used to, so King Kai should still exist within the universe where the fight takes place.

And Fourth, you say is SBA, so the universe they in would still be empty, unless you change it.

SBA never says that the battlefield is empty and says that if the standard battlefield conditions give an unfair advantage to someone (aka disadvantage to someone else) then an alternative should be discussed within the thread, which is what I am doing.

Based on what?

Goku locking on to King Kai's ki signal in order to be able to teleport there...

Well yeah, but this is just to demonstrate Goku would let people die, If he can undo everything with the Dragon Balls. This still can apply, since they have the same personality.

I think this is more of an example of Goku prioritizing earth over other planets, regardless of the Dragon Balls.

And for the next point.

What If it doesn't trought? Not sure why Goku would't noticed trought.

Why would he? He don't Goku above average nose.

Alien X can check Goku's past to see his abilities, resistances and weaknesses. So the poison or virus will be tailormade specifically so that Goku can't counter it.

Why?

Because Goku needs to look at details and see where he's going, his perception speed is also immeasurable. So if Goku crosses an infinite distance, he will have infinite thoughts in the process.

Considering that Ben is hiding on another dimension, and Goku can sense this type If things

Goku cannot sense that his opponent is in another dimension if he doesn't have their ki signature.

and a random dimension with only 3 people are kinda suspiscious, i don't think that gonna take a long time.

It... isn't? The infinite Null Void with a bunch of criminals in it is way more suspicious and there are infinite of those in the multiverse.

Why Goku would Go for different timelines?

Because in this scenario Goku would be looking randomly throughout the multiverse to find some clue of who, where or what his opponent is. Besides, the pocket dimension is outside of those infinite timelines so he'd have to pass them regardless if he intends to find it via pure movement.

 

[Fezzih_007]

SBA never says that the battlefield is empty and says that if the standard battlefield conditions give an unfair advantage to someone (aka disadvantage to someone else) then an alternative should be discussed within the thread, which is what I am doing.

It does, in the outside interferance, since no one for either verse can interferer in the battle, the battle location is assumed to be empty. Is the hidden rules, as they called

Anyway, If you want to say that since Xeno Goku can just nuke the multiverse, and that would destroy Alien X, thus making this battle unfair, i can agree, more or less then.

Doesn't matter, we shouldn't restrict his ability to use it to its full potential.

In every match with Goku, we do this anyway.
He don't even need a populated universe to use the Genki Dama, he can just draw energy from the Sun.
It also comes from the issue that the population don't exactly would want to give they energy to Goku for no reason. In the Buu Saga, Mr Satan as needed só everyone can donate they energy.

Goku locking on to King Kai's ki signal in order to be able to teleport there...

King Kai not gonna be here. And this Goku don't do this anyway. He don't telerport to King Kai in the middle of a fight. Nor do he needs King Kai anyway to Teleport.

 

[Greenshifter]

It does, in the outside interferance, since no one for either verse can interferer in the battle, the battle location is assumed to be empty. Is the hidden rules, as they called

No outside interference means those people can't interfere in the fight, not that they don't exist and this especially applies to regular humans. There used to be threads with people literally taking hostages and stuff.

Anyway, If you want to say that since Xeno Goku can just nuke the multiverse, and that would destroy Alien X, thus making this battle unfair, i can agree, more or less then.

I mean SBA wouldn't cover that so that's not an argument I can make to change the battlefield without people complaining that the match is invalid or doesn't count lol.

King Kai not gonna be here. And this Goku don't do this anyway. He don't telerport to King Kai in the middle of a fight. Nor do he needs King Kai anyway to Teleport.

Goku got BFR specifically for teleporting Cell to King Kai's planet, this was accepted here (and iirc was explicitly mentioned on a page at one point, being around for a while has its advantages). Now Goku can utilize BFR in other ways but his main showing is King Kai's planet and thus we shouldn't restrict that. King Kai's planet also has the benefit of having higher gravity than earth.

In every match with Goku, we do this anyway.

Well, then you're doing it wrong. Not my problem.

He don't even need a populated universe to use the Genki Dama, he can just draw energy from the Sun.

True, but it won't be as powerful.

It also comes from the issue that the population don't exactly would want to give they energy to Goku for no reason. In the Buu Saga, Mr Satan as needed só everyone can donate they energy.

1) That's his problem, 2) Goku can draw energy from all lifeforms, like animals.

 

[Fezzih_007]

No outside interference means those people can't interfere in the fight

So you know, If Goku adress then to ask for they energy or Goku can't go all out because there's people around, is kinda of a interference in the fight.

There used to be threads with people literally taking hostages and stuff.

Would't that mean in this threads there are people around, but normally they they would't have?

I mean SBA wouldn't cover that so that's not an argument I can make to change the battlefield without people complaining that the match is invalid or doesn't count lol.

Is Fun Games, so i don't particullary Care.

Now Goku can utilize BFR in other ways but his main showing is King Kai's planet and thus we shouldn't restrict that.

We not exactly restricting King Kai, Goku just don't need him to BFR people.

King Kai's planet also has the benefit of having higher gravity than earth.

How does that help? Alien X not gonna be stopped by that.

Well, then you're doing it wrong. Not my problem.

Wow.
Anyway, we not restricting anything, he can still use It. He don't just can't acess It full potential. That's not really wrong with that.

True, but it won't be as powerful.

He can just draw energy for Sun for a long long time, until It reaches that level of Power.

1) That's his problem

, 2) Goku can draw energy from all lifeforms, like animals.

But is not gonna be in his Full potential trought

Green Green, i gonna reiterate one more time.
You want argue there's people around in the universe, so Goku can use the Genki Dama at Full Power.
Them you ignore the fact that Goku rarely uses Genki Dama, he won't be inclined to use the attack against a opponent weaker than him, and he can't exactly acess the Full Power by himself anyway because the people not gonna give him energy.

Like, how this exactly make any sense? You say we can't restricted the full potential of Genki Dama, but Goku can't acess the full potential of Genki Dama anyway, so what you saying don't matter at all.

 

[Greenshifter]

So you know, If Goku adress then to ask for they energy or Goku can't go all out because there's people around, is kinda of an interference in the fight.

Nah that’s a skill issue due to his character. The same battlefield rules should apply when in-character or bloodlusted since they’re only dependent on the characters’ abilities.

Would't that mean in this threads there are people around, but normally they they would't have?

No those threads used SBA

Is Fun Games, so i don't particullary Care.

Even for your “who wins and loses against Xeno Goku” list?

We not exactly restricting King Kai, Goku just don't need him to BFR people.

He needs his ki signature to lock on to and it’s Goku’s best or second best BFR option.

How does that help? Alien X not gonna be stopped by that.

Doesn’t matter, this is a general thing. We don’t restrict the full extent of Goku’s abilties even if they are totally useless in the match at hand™.

Wow.
Anyway, we not restricting anything, he can still use It. He don't just can't acess It full potential. That's not really wrong with that.

There is, “It is not fine to restrict abilities in a versus matchup, implicitly or expressly. Matches that are arranged this way should not be added to the character profiles, as they don't involve their full potential, and are only intended for casual entertainment.”

He can just draw energy for Sun for a long long time, until It reaches that level of Power.

Do the same for every lifeform in the multiverse and that will be even more powerful.

But is not gonna be in his Full potential trought

Wdym?

Green Green, i gonna reiterate one more time.
You want argue there's people around in the universe, so Goku can use the Genki Dama at Full Power.
Them you ignore the fact that Goku rarely uses Genki Dama, he won't be inclined to use the attack against a opponent weaker than him, and he can't exactly acess the Full Power by himself anyway because the people not gonna give him energy.

Like, how this exactly make any sense? You say we can't restricted the full potential of Genki Dama, but Goku can't acess the full potential of Genki Dama anyway, so what you saying don't matter at all.

Exactly, finally somebody gets my argument. However, as said previously, this makes total sense if Goku is bloodlusted and we should use the same battlefield rules for in-character and bloodlusted. This is all described in the “how do you win against the DBH Gokus” manual made by yours truly.

TLDR; Skill issue on Goku’s part.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Exactly, finally somebody gets my argument.

You kinda twisting the rules trought, since Goku don't need anyone to reach his full potential.

Like, i really don't understand your argument. Because you not restricting anything, Goku don't need people to use the Genki Dama.

 

[Greenshifter]

You kinda twisting the rules trought, since Goku don't need anyone to reach his full potential.

For BFR he quite literally does and for the Genki Dama same but just less explicitly since it’s his strongest attack.

 

[Prime2024]

So is this a real battle or ?

 

[Greenshifter]

Also here is a mod literally arguing Goku could use the Genki Dama or BFR to King Kai’s planet to win. Don‘t forget that VS thread rules are independent of individual matchups.

 

[Greenshifter]

So is this a real battle or ?

Eh sorta, for now it’s in F&G but I might ask to move it later.

 

[Fezzih_007]

For BFR he quite literally does and for the Genki Dama same but just less explicitly since it’s his strongest attack.

So i can accept Kaio being in the battle (But also not really, since Xeno Goku don't need Kaio to use BFR), but the Genki Dama not really, since he don't need people to charge one, he can use the sun.

Also here is a mod literally arguing Goku could use the Genki Dama or BFR to King Kai’s planet to win. Don‘t forget that VS thread rules are independent of individual matchups.

But that's DBS Goku.

 

[Greenshifter]

since Xeno Goku don't need Kaio to use BFR

With teleportation he does.

the Genki Dama not really, since he don't need people to charge one, he can use the sun

It’ll just be stronger if he uses people as well. Full potential is full potential my guy. Heck maybe it doesn’t have its regeneration negating ability if it only comes from inanimate objects.

Edit: Did Regeneration Negation get removed?! Fr?

To give another argument which maybe doesn’t work in R3 and 4: Goku can use time travel to do research on Ben, which means Ben’s multiverse (full of innocent people) must exist within Goku’s range.

But that's DBS Goku

Xeno Goku has the same abilities + some extra so even more specific circumstances would apply.

 

[Fezzih_007]

With teleportation he does.

No not really, he can telerport without needing him. Is just the method he was knowing doing.

It’ll just be stronger if he uses people as well. Full potential is full potential my guy.

You not restricting Genki Dama just because Goku can't draw energy for people, he can still use. Just because is more powerfull if he uses more people, don't mean is restricted if there's no people around.

 

[Greenshifter]

No not really, he can telerport without needing him. Is just the method he was knowing doing.

Wut?

You not restricting Genki Dama just because Goku can't draw energy for people, he can still use. Just because is more powerfull if he uses more people, don't mean is restricted if there's no people around.

Restricted: “limited in extent, number, scope, or action.”

It is.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Restricted: “limited in extent, number, scope, or action.”

It is.

That's really not my point and Goku can still use the Genki Dama, since is not limited by the numbers of people.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Wut?

Oh i forgot.

He can telerport to other timelines.

Anyway, the whole point of this argument is if Goku would use Ki crush the multiverse to defeat Alien X and Ben if there people around.
I arguing that it don't have people around, and even if it does, he can use the dragon balls to revive people anyway.

 

[Greenshifter]

That's really not my point and Goku can still use the Genki Dama, since is not limited by the numbers of people.

It is mine, it’s restricted since it’s limited in scope when there are no people around compared to when there are a lot of people around.

Oh i forgot.

He can telerport to other timelines.

Yeah but he still needs a ki signature to lock on to, there needs to be somebody there.

I arguing that it don't have people around

That’s still not what is meant by no outside interference, they aren’t allowed to interfere with the characters, but the characters are allowed to interfere with them.

even if it does, he can use the dragon balls to revive people anyway.

Still OoC, it’s his job to protect (the people in) the multiverse. Also wouldn’t he kill the people who made the Dragon Balls anyways? He’d have to summon someone who survived his nuke.

 

[Fezzih_007]

It is mine,

it’s restricted since it’s limited in scope when there are no people around compared to when there are a lot of people around.

No is not.
The Genki Dama is not limited in scope if there's people around or not, since he can still draw the same level of energy by using inanimate objects across the universe.

That’s still not what is meant by no outside interference, they aren’t allowed to interfere with the characters, but the characters are allowed to interfere with them.

No is not.

Outside Influence: None. No characters of either verse, aside from those participating in the battle, may influence the outcome of the battle in any way. That means they may not join the fight, grant buffs, create shields, provide information etc.

Because of SBA, they in New York of a random universe. There's not gonna have people around, since they would influence the outcome of the battle.
Goku can't call energy for them, since that would mean they are joining the fight by helping Goku. So there's no people on the battlefield to help or influence the fight, except maybe Kaio Sama, which Goku don't have problem in accindetaly killing.

Still OoC

Well... the scenario you providing for Ben is kinda weird too. "He gonna look at Goku history, which he can totally do gg, he gonna make a lethal poison for him, and make totally unnedected by him"

it’s his job to protect the people in the multiverse. Also wouldn’t he kill the people who made the Dragon Balls anyways? He’d have to summon someone who survived his nuke.

Not really, since he can call Super Sheron to revive people.
And to be frank, he don't nescessary need to use the entire 5D multiverse, he can just destroy enough to get Ben whenever he is.

 

[Greenshifter]

No is not.
The Genki Dama is not limited in scope if there's people around or not, since he can still draw the same level of energy by using inanimate objects across the universe.

He can draw more if there are people + inanimate objects.

No is not.
Because of SBA, they in New York of a random universe. There's not gonna have people around, since they would influence the outcome of the battle.
Goku can't call energy for them, since that would mean they are joining the fight by helping Goku. So there's no people on the battlefield to help or influence the fight, except maybe Kaio Sama, which Goku don't have problem in accindetaly killing.

Research (and killing) via time travel is allowed which relies on a lot of people existing within the timeline and potentially interfering with their lives (butterfly effect). So no, that interpretation is simply untrue.

I’m pretty sure Genki Dama would be an exception to the “no outside help rule”, much like summoning, but that’s neither here nor there.

Not really, since he can call Super Sheron to revive people.

Not if he kills Zalama.

And to be frank, he don't nescessary need to use the entire 5D multiverse, he can just destroy enough to get Ben whenever he is.

He doesn’t know where Ben is, so he doesn’t know when to stop. Even if Alien X’s body doesn’t immediately respawn, that could just be a choice on Alien X’s part.

Also why the hell be pissed at Aios if this is a thing he would casually do? What about nuking some timelines when he’s looking for a villain, no problemo right?

The fact that he doesn’t do these things in the story should clue you in that it’s very OoC for Goku to do this and he would rather die than kill the people he swore to protect. Arguing otherwise is an insult to Goku’s character.

 

[Greenshifter]

Anyways Hearts disagrees with your argument so gg.
Funny how Goku’s the only TP member who’s just chilling.

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Is this even a match ?
Alien X wins [of course]

 

[Brogeefrong]

Is this even a match ?
Alien X wins [of course]

outerversal goku is fr more then fodder x

 

[Prime2024]

Not even Gokuversal myth is going to save Goku this time

 

[Greenshifter]

Wow I just remembered how hard I went here. I really killed this thread huh?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Wow I just remembered how hard I went here. I really killed this thread huh?

Upgraded an alien to 26D, do you still want it to have a fight?

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

What I can think of SDBH with maximum highball is 10-11 Dimensional while even most lowballed Alien X is 17-26 D
So this isn't even a match + Alien X has potential to reach outerversal {via R>F} so this is one sided
NGL green shifter cooked