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Alien X vs Hulk | 4-0-3

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MintyBoi1 said:
Can Hulk really use the full power of Gamma? I remember Devil Hulk being below the One Below All where Gamma originates from, or at least Hulk couldn’t damage him for long even while in hell.
Click to expand...
Likely an avatar of TOBA since he can take any form
 
Brogeefrong said:
You just explained the difference or else you'd consider punching someone to be biological manipulation
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Their both Mind Manipulation via alternate means. And it'll end up with Hulk fighting X/Ben in his own PocketD where he has full control over
Brogeefrong said:
Gamma energy is magic which has
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Information Manipulation (Type 2: Fundamental), Subjective Reality, Law Manipulation, and Reality Warping: Magic is a conceptual system that allows an individual to control the natural world (including events, objects, people, and physical phenomena).[3] The five elements of magic are also noted as the five elements of "all-that-is",[4] something which is later mentioned in the same story by Universal Eternity itself,[41] and are independent of creation due to having existed before the Marvel Multiverse's conception and even having existed before time itself did[16] (which is also stated here[17] and here[18]). Magic is also one of the 6 elements that makes up the shape of the universe and the totality of everything.[15] Gamma Radiation, a Type 1 Concept of its own, contains magic[43] as part of its very nature. All of the Abstracts, conceptual beings who exist beyond and above the standard infinite-dimensional universe, are sustained by magic in its purest, most fundamental form. The Enigma Force, which is the very spirit of Eternity, without which Earth-616 itself instantly collapses, is mystical in nature. Magic is outside and opposite the concepts of logic and can replace them if they are destroyed.[11] "Magic is taking a thought and making it real. Taking a lie and making it the truth. Telling a story to the universe so utterly, cosmically perfect that for a single, shining moment... the world believes a man can fly "[55] and those stories echo through space and time back to the start of all things, mixing with the All-That-Was and sparking something new, such as the mythical Gods of the Marvel Universe as well as the 10 Norse Realms (each of which is its own universe), becoming so big and mad and brilliant that they go back in time and change other stories.[56] Doctor Doom tells Loki that magic is essentially a higher narrative into the flow of events, imposing a narrative upon reality, imposing a story, a fiction into reality and willing it to become true. To be a creature of magic is to be a creature of story. Right after this, he states that he himself is a creature of magic, which makes him a creature of story.[59] Doctor Doom also stated that all reality warpers have magic within their bodies and that disrupting their magic removes their reality warping powers,[117] and Jim Jaspers states that sorcerers can move reality about.[118] Magic is symbol and metaphor, and can be contained within metaphorical stories while in itself contain possible questions, such as "What if the future was unwritten, the present uncontained? What if we could go anywhere, do anything, be anyone? What if we were free? What couldn't we do, on the day all our cages open? What does the bridge to anywhere look like?". Stories turn moments into power--moments like this--and a teller of tales can harness that power, even in the moment.[119] Scarlet Witch states that magic is rewriting the structure of the universe according to how much you believe you can.[120] As mentioned above, in the "Mystic Universe" (the half of Earth 616 that is purely magical in nature), none of the laws of the scientific universe work normally,[29] as they are dominated by the chaotic precepts of magic.[25] Magic is bending and shaping reality to one's own ends,[121] and is about splitting open the world around you and being able to read the mysteries inside like a book as well as knowing how to stitch and sever them like a surgeon.[122] Doctor Strange stated that sorcerers have little patience for the laws of nature.[123] Iron Man states that Doctor Strange, as the main sorcerer who Iron Man is familiar with, represents "a world without rules" in regard to the nature of magic.[124] Magic has no rules (in direct contrast to science), is immeasurable and unpredictable, and creates beings of pure metaphor.[43] The realm of Lord Chaos and Master Order, who exist as the forces that shape and sustain reality as a whole (Order being responsible for giving the universe shape and stability and Chaos responsible for giving it movement and dynamism[91]) and whose realm is stated to both be the fulcrum of existence, from which all that is springs forth[38] and also stated to lie between the polarities of actuality, being a plane where all dichotomies blend together and cease to exist,[38] is repeatedly[39] stated[37] to be[39] a realm made[33][34][35] of magic,[89] and simply travelling in this realm warped Thanos's body.[38] When anyone uses a magic spell, even a novice entirely unaware of their own magic abilities simply making a wish, they are making the universe bend by speaking words of power,[57] and magic is stated to be just a way of telling the universe to bend to your will.[125] Magic and Chaos are linked, abetting the undoing of physical absolutes.[72] The mystic dimensions within the mystical half of the universe have their fundamental properties governed by magical energies, including the Astral Plane itself,[24] something also stated here.[25] Loki states that magic by its very nature is the antithesis of the "rules" of reality.[113] Magic is the in-between, the fraying edge between reality and unreality. A hidden string secretly linking all things that only the adroit may tug free. It is the place none can follow, an implication lurking behind words, the coil of rope before it cinches in purpose. There is even magic intent in the driving of a dagger.Even a hero's name possesses magical power,[52] something also stated here[126] and here.[127] In higher dimensions, magic supersedes physical laws and is the only energetic medium that can effect change. Magic can bypass the slow mechanics of creation, such as natural laws and rational processes, and are the "cheat codes" for reality. It also can circumvent all physical laws and is the "cheat code" of creation
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Then his profile would've been L1A. There is different kinds of magic in the verse. Hulk and the one Below was mentioned nowhere in this.
Brogeefrong said:
He could punch into Alien X's pocket dimension at least
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He still doesn't have the range.
Brogeefrong said:
That would just mean Silver Surfer is a smurf
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The little blue men that live in mushroom houses? Is there proof of this. Hulk's radiation was drained by SS.
Robo432343 said:
So Hulk will passively keep destroying Alien X's avatar because of Low 1-A hax potency

but will never be able to hurt X's true form because he lacks range
Click to expand...
Pretty much but X can still affect Hulk from his pocketD. So Hulk kills the avatar, turns back into Bruve and then uses EE.
Extract:
Immortality (Types 1, 3 & 9; Celestialsapiens cannot die naturally. They live eternal life as they are born in The Forge of Creation. Alien X's consciousness which comprises of three personalities/beings, namely Serena, Bellicus, and Ben who is physically present, resides somewhere outside of the universe, disconnected from space-time, and exists independently of their body and can perform all actions without said body. For characters to be able to affect this consciousness they must have High 1-B range and at that must be able to not just locate the pocket dimension and the personalities within for non-AoE moves, but also affect all of them at once)
Robo432343 said:
its here
vsbattles.fandom.com

Magic (Marvel Comics)

There are many types of magic in the vast and complex history of Marvel Comics. However, while all the magic types are different to varying degrees, and some are definitely more well known than others, all share basic elements and powers (as well as basic potency that is likely...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Robo432343 said:
huh??
its literally accepted that all magic in marvel is Low 1-A
Click to expand...
No. Gamma users are listed under basic magic users along with GR(H1B). Magic is L1A but not all of the users scale to it.
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Then his profile would've been L1A. There is different kinds of magic in the verse. Hulk and the one Below was mentioned nowhere in this.
Click to expand...
no it wouldn't have
you can have High 1-B AP but Low 1-A hax

literally everyone in this thread has a certain tier but haxes above their AP
www.vsbattles.com

Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier

The continuation of this previous thread here. Rules Characters only qualify for a tier if they are physically in that tier themselves. Tiers through amps that increases both Attack Potency and Durability also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology. Prep Time is only allowed if...
www.vsbattles.com www.vsbattles.com
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Then his profile would've been L1A. There is different kinds of magic in the verse. Hulk and the one Below was mentioned nowhere in this.
Click to expand...
The One Above All/The One Below is generator of gamma energy. Anyone who has it has a connection to him.
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
The little blue men that live in mushroom houses? Is there proof of this. Hulk's radiation was drained by SS.
Click to expand...
Yes because Silver Surfer has the Power Cosmic. You can virtually do almost anything with it including draining. Galactus has the power cosmic and can reach Outerversal Levels and yes Silver Surfer don't have anything like that on his profile because his profile is outdated and would be worked on.
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
No. Gamma users are listed under basic magic users along with GR(H1B). Magic is L1A but not all of the users scale to it.
Click to expand...
Magic in general is Low 1-A including Gamma.
It doesn't matter if you are a Basic or Sorcerer level user level automatically, you have Low 1-A hax.
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Pretty much but X can still affect Hulk from his pocketD. So Hulk kills the avatar, turns back into Bruve and then uses EE.
Click to expand...
Banner can comeback
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Their both Mind Manipulation via alternate means. And it'll end up with Hulk fighting X/Ben in his own PocketD where he has full control over
Click to expand...
They arent, one manipulates it, while the other is just touching it, same example touching a human doesnt mean you have biological manipulation
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
He still doesn't have the range.
Click to expand...
He can make it into where they are
 
but Hulk doesn't need to find Alien X's pocket dimension
he can just kill the avatar
thats incap
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Then his profile would've been L1A. There is different kinds of magic in the verse. Hulk and the one Below was mentioned nowhere in this.
Click to expand...
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
No. Gamma users are listed under basic magic users along with GR(H1B). Magic is L1A but not all of the users scale to it.
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You're wrong btw, every single magic user has magic potency L1A. No matter if you're unskilled magician or Strange himself.

Anyway, what's stopping from saying Passive Haxs + Green Door gg?
 
Robo432343 said:
but Hulk doesn't need to find Alien X's pocket dimension
he can just kill the avatar
thats incap
Click to expand...
Killing the avatar doesn't means he wins, AX can still attack from Pocket D or his avatar can teleport to anywhere and just attack from there
 
Ben_10_Stick_Nodes said:
Dude WTF his attacks literally can't reach to X's pocket D, the pocked D is out of the universe which requires High1B range to reach and find where it is
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He can break out of his universe, and has senses to locate X
MintyBoi1 said:
Also Low-Godly regen, not much Hulk can do about that. Seeming a bit lopsided in Alien X’s favor.
Click to expand...
Low Godly via Mind, and Hulk has NPI for minds anyways + CM Type 1 stuff
 
MintyBoi1 said:
But you need High Hyperversal range which Hulk doesn’t have. And isn’t Devil the one with ESP?
Click to expand...
Gamma's can punch out the Universe which is Low 1-A, and Normal Hulk has this
MintyBoi1 said:
I see, still I think Alien X’s win cons are more feasible.
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so vote or
Ben_10_Stick_Nodes said:
You are simply ignoring the range.
Click to expand...
He can break out of his Low 1-A universe via space-time manip
 
This is incon.

Hulk has Low 1-A smurf hax via gamma energy being magical (with magic in Marvel being a Low 1-A smurf hax in potency), but I don't know if he has the range to affect Alien X's true self.
 
alien gex needs his avatar to hurt hulk
hulk passively kills the avatar
we're using alien x, not serena and bellicus
 
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Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Ben has no issue killing either.
Click to expand...

You're wrong there.

The Ultimate Kevin arc is canonically OoC for Ben. We've seen that he DOES NOT kill at all during UAF and OV, even when he had the reasons and/or opportunity.

  • He didn't want to kill Zomboso, even if he attempted to hurt his family.
  • He didn't want Kevin to kill Ragnarok, because he need to "be judged properly."
  • One of Plumbers rules is that they are not executioners, but a force of good.
  • He didn't allow Ben 23 to kill Azmuth, not only because it was Azmuth, but also cuz "He almost crossed a line with no return."

Even during Ultimate Kevin arc he didn't want to kill Jim until literally the final of the arc, and even then, he wasn't sure about doing it.

Maybe Ben isn't Spider-Man or Batman, but he will walkways try to not kill if there's LITERALLY any other way to defeat the bad guy, and even then, he would try another way.
 
Why do you guys always ignore the profiles? Ooof. I will present arguments for both sides in a sec.

I am leaning towards incon for now.
 
SBA distance would assume whatever range hulk has since he is the one with lower range
we don't do the 4km thing anymore
 
I hate this stupid match. Robo makes much better matches fr!
(I am not dissing the OP, I just don't like my favorite western characters fighting each other. I don't know who to support!)
 
Robo432343 said:
alien gex needs his avatar to hurt hulk
hulk passively kills the avatar
we're using alien x, not serena and bellicus
Click to expand...
Immortality (Types 1, 3 & 9; Celestialsapiens cannot die naturally. They live eternal life as they are born in The Forge of Creation. Alien X's consciousness which comprises of three personalities/beings, namely Serena, Bellicus, and Ben who is physically present, resides somewhere outside of the universe, disconnected from space-time, and exists independently of their body and can perform all actions without said body. For characters to be able to affect this consciousness they must have High 1-B range and at that must be able to not just locate the pocket dimension and the personalities within for non-AoE moves, but also affect all of them at once)

Belecus, Serena and Ben are part of Alien X.
 
Ehm, guys, sorry to bother.

But does anyone knows how to upload a Vs Match? Cuz I've tried everything and i can't find it.
 
Robo432343 said:
but Hulk doesn't need to find Alien X's pocket dimension
he can just kill the avatar
thats incap
Click to expand...
Immortality (Types 1, 3 & 9; Celestialsapiens cannot die naturally. They live eternal life as they are born in The Forge of Creation. Alien X's consciousness which comprises of three personalities/beings, namely Serena, Bellicus, and Ben who is physically present, resides somewhere outside of the universe, disconnected from space-time, and exists independently of their body and can perform all actions without said body. For characters to be able to affect this consciousness they must have High 1-B range and at that must be able to not just locate the pocket dimension and the personalities within for non-AoE moves, but also affect all of them at once)
Brogeefrong said:
Gamma's can punch out the Universe which is Low 1-A, and Normal Hulk has this
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This won't allow him to see the pocketD. He'll need Cosmic Awareness to find it. X isn't a spirit nor a concept.
Brogeefrong said:
He can break out of his Low 1-A universe via space-time mamanip
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The it should be added to his profile. Stop using things that aren't in his profile as arguments.
Excellence616 said:
Not when he is affected by fate, probability, causality, plot, chaos haxs of Low 1-A potency
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Legit none of these are in his profile.
Tomfer said:
You're wrong btw, every single magic user has magic potency L1A. No matter if you're unskilled magician or Strange himself.

Anyway, what's stopping from saying Passive Haxs + Green Door gg?
Click to expand...
Then why is She Hulk only H3A and some other Hulk 5A. Also GT is High 1B. None of them are L1A via Hax. Please stick to the character's profile.
Lacks range+X has resistance to radiation manipulation via space survival+does the Green Door allow to to return from EE.
GeneralSol16 said:
You're wrong there.

The Ultimate Kevin arc is canonically OoC for Ben. We've seen that he DOES NOT kill at all during UAF and OV, even when he had the reasons and/or opportunity.

  • He didn't want to kill Zomboso, even if he attempted to hurt his family.
  • He didn't want Kevin to kill Ragnarok, because he need to "be judged properly."
  • One of Plumbers rules is that they are not executioners, but a force of good.
  • He didn't allow Ben 23 to kill Azmuth, not only because it was Azmuth, but also cuz "He almost crossed a line with no return."

Even during Ultimate Kevin arc he didn't want to kill Jim until literally the final of the arc, and even then, he wasn't sure about doing it.

Maybe Ben isn't Spider-Man or Batman, but he will walkways try to not kill if there's LITERALLY any other way to defeat the bad guy, and even then, he would try another way.
Click to expand...
So Ben will kill if his or other's lives are in danger. From let's say a giant angry green monster.
Huesito88 said:
Hulk's Thunder Claps can extend from Kilometers to Planetary
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So X can physically restrain Hulk from a safe distance with telekinesis and higher lifting strength.
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Then why is She Hulk only H3A and some other Hulk 5A. Also GT is High 1B. None of them are L1A via Hax. Please stick to the character's profile.
Lacks range+X has resistance to radiation manipulation via space survival+does the Green Door allow to to return from EE.
Click to expand...
Those are passive effect hax, not like destroy things hax. Some hax can be of Low 1-A potency for affecting characters of that level. These characters are called Smurf.
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Legit none of these are in his profile.
Click to expand...
It is, just look at the magic page.
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
The it should be added to his profile. Stop using things that aren't in his profile as arguments.
Click to expand...
It is, actually. It has already been established that marvel universes are Low 1-A and Hulk can break through these universes.

I am actually just gonna vote for incon until someone who is actually knowledgeable about Marvel comes on this thread.
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
Then why is She Hulk only H3A and some other Hulk 5A. Also GT is High 1B. None of them are L1A via Hax. Please stick to the character's profile.
Click to expand...
She Hulk has High 3-A AP but Low 1-A Hax potency. What part of that do you not understand. Not everything has to be spelt out for you

And we know she has Low 1-A hax because it says on her profile that she is a magic user which is accepted as Low 1-A

"please stick to the character's profile" brother you're the one denying marvel characters have Low 1-A hax even though its accepted as such

the profiles don't have to say a character is Low 1-A via hax when the profile already states that they have basic magic
 
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
So Ben will kill if his or other's lives are in danger. From let's say a giant angry green monster.
Click to expand...
No, he won't.
We've seen that scenarios on the show, and he doesn't kill them, textually being against the idea of killing his villains even if they attempt to kill his parents.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
No, he won't.
We've seen that scenarios on the show, and he doesn't kill them, textually being against the idea of killing his villains even if they attempt to kill his parents.
Click to expand...
So he restrains him from a safe distance with Telekinesis and Body Puppetry with his superior lifting strength.
 
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