Xeno Goku vs Alien X (Again)

[Fezzih_007]

He can’t, since he doesn’t know Ben’s ki signature.

But he don't need to know Ben's ki signature to locate him. That would help, but is not nescessary.

Alien X’s body is a puppet so he can’t be knocked out.

True, i just say he would try to do that, instead of blowing him up.

If Goku doesn’t blow up Alien X’s body then he’s just wasting time.

You know he other ways to take down Alien X, that don't involve him blow him up, right? Even ignoring that, If he not doing anything to Alien X, he would eventually noticed Ben Ki signature.

Gutrot

What about him? Because i pretty sure he never used him to kill anyone with Poison.

and you have not watched Ben 10.

I did, yeah.

It’s not like Goku is giving him a lot of a choice

So you think Ben would kill Goku? Like, you don't even suggest Sleeping gas or something, you immediality said he would try to use poison and Gás, which is not really In-character.

and if Ben won’t do it then Bellicus and Serena will.

Not like that gonna work anyway, since Goku have a Aura around him that protects him from poison trying to enter his body.

The page links to GT and Super feats so.

That still different version, yeah.

it would require him to spend an infinite amount of time from his perspective without being able to talk to anyone, literally driving him insane

Goku can Summon people, that would't happen.

 

[Greenshifter]

But he don't need to know Ben's ki signature to locate him. That would help, but is not nescessary.

Refer to my mental fortitude and not even knowing who Ben is argument.

True, i just say he would try to do that, instead of blowing him up.

Ok, well in speed equal he’s losing time and in speed unequal he’ll just blow it up eventually leading to the same result.

You know he other ways to take down Alien X, that don't involve him blow him up, right?

Ehhh, his body? Not really…

Even ignoring that, If he not doing anything to Alien X, he would eventually noticed Ben Ki signature.

No? Even if he did, he doesn’t know Ben is his opponent so.

What about him? Because i pretty sure he never used him to kill anyone with Poison.

If Ben is willing to kill somebody + Ben is willing to use chemical attacks to take down opponents. The natural conclusion is killing someone via poison. Ben could literally make it painless too.

Not like that gonna work anyway, since Goku have an Aura around him that protects him from poison trying to enter his body.

That forcefield needs to be explicitly activated and I’m pretty sure Xeno Goku still likes to breathe?

That still different version, yeah.

The point is that Xeno Goku’s RE feats come from versions of him which aren’t that much stronger than his self which died to the heart virus. Though Ig on the wiki you could argue they are

Goku can Summon people, that would't happen

Sure, do you think he still wouldn’t get depressed though? It would literally be more efficient for him to just wish Alien X gone. I’m just arguing he wouldn’t do that before Alien X defeats him.

 

[TheGreatBanana]

@TheGreatBanana Come on out and face me instead of liking people’s comments will ya? Someone has to entertain me while I wait for Ottavio’s arrival.

Aight. I'll entertain you, Goku summons Super shenron to get high godly, then he summons him again to summon Mechikabura, and then they both summon Demigra/Xeno trunks/CC goku/Aios to beat AX, or he just summons super shenron and wish he gets AX powers

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I don’t think Goku has the mental fortitude to check infinite timelines anyways so

I guess that's the job of the Time Patrol.

If Ben is willing to kill somebody + Ben is willing to use chemical attacks to take down opponents. The natural conclusion is killing someone via poison. Ben could literally make it painless too.

Well, Goku has resistance to poison because of the water of the gods.

 

[Greenshifter]

Aight. I'll entertain you, Goku summons Super shenron to get high godly, then he summons him again to summon Mechikabura, and then they both summon Demigra/Xeno trunks/CC goku/Aios to beat AX, or he just summons super shenron and wish he gets AX powers

Sure, I’ll accept this as round 5: Goku is bloodlusted and has a banana-controller up his butt. Pretty sure Shenron can’t even summon Mechi since he’s in the CoT.

 

[Greenshifter]

I guess that's the job of the Time Patrol.

More-so Chronoa’s job, the rest of the TP just punches the things Chronoa tells them to punch.

Well, Goku has resistance to poison because of the water of the gods.

Gutrot’s a master chef though (Alien X can create gases with the same potency)

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Sure, I’ll accept this as round 5: Goku is bloodlusted and has a banana-controller up his butt. Pretty sure Shenron can’t even summon Mechi since he’s in the CoT.

Faire counter.
Re-counter, giku summons SS in CoT.

 

[Reiner04]

@Greenshifter u already have enough regrets don't double down it.

 

[Greenshifter]

Faire counter.
Re-counter, giku summons SS in CoT.

@Greenshifter u already have enough regrets don't double down it.

Reiner-sama?! Maybe I shouldn’t… oh who am I kidding, I’m just getting warmed up!

 

[Greenshifter]

I should correct something I said earlier, didn’t look down in the album to see the RE examples in DBH (good work on that btw guys) and it’s pretty broken. That said Z Broly apparently has broken RE as well, meaning Goku just always had broken RE. Meaning heart virus gg still. Heart virus > Universe Tree confirmed.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Gutrot’s a master chef though (Alien X can create gases with the same potency)

Speaking of which, why don't you Ben 10 fans try to cook so that Celestial Sapiens have access to all the powers of all alien races based on the countless statements of "omnipotence" and "can do anything"

 

[Greenshifter]

Speaking of which, why don't you Ben 10 fans try to cook so that Celestial Sapiens have access to all the powers of all alien races based on the countless statements of "omnipotence" and "can do anything"

Oh I cooked that up a few years ago, VSBW’s omnipotence/power inheritance standards are/were in the way though (you guys should set the precedent by giving Zen’o resistance to every offensive hax in the verse). Sounds like a revision @Reiner04 should make.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I should correct something I said earlier, didn’t look down in the album to see the RE examples in DBH (good work on that btw guys) and it’s pretty broken. That said Z Broly apparently has broken RE as well, meaning Goku just always had broken RE. Meaning heart virus gg still. Heart virus > Universe Tree confirmed.

RE is a practically useless skill on the wiki.

Since you can only do RE for things that you have already done RE, but if you have already done RE this skill is no longer useful.

I think it's ridiculous that someone like Goku can do RE to resist Time Power and Dark Factor but can't argue that he does RE in type 3 madness.

RE practically only works for physiologies, because then guys like xeno can potentially resist time power and so on.
-
-
-
Besides, I think manipulating poison and disease should be like manipulating fire. Since these skills don't exactly work with "layers"

Just because I survived a cold or COVID doesn't mean I'll survive Ebola.

 

[Greenshifter]

RE is a practically useless skill on the wiki.

Since you can only do RE for things that you have already done RE, but if you have already done RE this skill is no longer useful.

I think it's ridiculous that someone like Goku can do RE to resist Time Power and Dark Factor but can't argue that he does RE in type 3 madness.

RE practically only works for physiologies, because then guys like xeno can potentially resist time power and so on.
-
-
-
Besides, I think manipulating poison and disease should be like manipulating fire. Since these skills don't exactly work with "layers"

Just because I survived a cold or COVID doesn't mean I'll survive Ebola.

Hit the nail on the head. I’ll be more lenient in R3 and 4 though, which is likely why Ottavio’s coming after me now that I think about it.

 

[Reiner04]

Reiner-sama?!

Good boy, that's just good.

 

[Greenshifter]

Besides, I think manipulating poison and disease should be like manipulating fire. Since these skills don't exactly work with "layers"

Just because I survived a cold or COVID doesn't mean I'll survive Ebola.

Also Bellicus and Serena are nigh-omniscient, they’ll hit Goku with the most effective virus/poison via sheer knowledge.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Also Bellicus and Serena are nigh-omniscient, they’ll hit Goku with the most effective virus/poison via sheer knowledge.

You didn't say that the fight ends when someone dies for the first time. So Goku can just revive himself by summoning a shenron.

 

[Greenshifter]

I should also mention that in speed equalized Alien X will first try other stuff first (like EE which might work). But in speed unequalized, trying direct attacks is pointless. Meaning Goku actually has a better chance in speed equalized than speed unequalized.

 

[Greenshifter]

You didn't say that the fight ends when someone dies for the first time. So Goku can just revive himself by summoning a shenron.

I don’t think anyone ever used the reviving argument before on VSBW so sounds more like something for R3 or 4. Could be wrong.

I’ll just argue Alien X EE’s his defenseless soul while it’s moving to the Afterlife at a finite speed if you don’t mind.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Oh I cooked that up a few years ago, VSBW’s omnipotence/power inheritance standards are/were in the way though (you guys should set the precedent by giving Zen’o resistance to every offensive hax in the verse). Sounds like a revision @Reiner04 should make.

They take it as hyperbole, I think Zen'ō should gain immunity to everything in the Dragon Ball verse

 

[Greenshifter]

Same for “omnipotence/can do anything”. Which I get, but at least scale him to the abilities shown in the verse y’know, since we know those things “can be done”.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Refer to my mental fortitude and not even knowing who Ben is argument.

I mean, Alien X and Ben should have similar energy signatures, so it probally not gonna be a problem to find.

Ok, well in speed equal he’s losing time

On what? Is not like he gonna be punching Alien X forever, he can just summon other people to deal with Alien X or reduce his energy to the point he can't anything anyway.

in speed unequal he’ll just blow it up eventually leading to the same result.

Ok, if he gonna blow up Alien X anyways, he can do by Ki crush the entire multiverse, since he don't need to hold back.

That forcefield needs to be explicitly activated

Yeah, but this Goku don't exactly his guard down, so he probally already gonna have that up.

I’m pretty sure Xeno Goku still likes to breathe?

He does, but he can also just get out of the Poison area. Unless Alien X poison the entire Multiverse, which Goku can just time travel to get out. If Alien X just poison the time period he is, Goku can time travel to a area that have breathing tanks.

Sure, do you think he still wouldn’t get depressed though?

Weirdly enough no, Goku is basically a Pollyanna, that really not gonna make him feel despair.

Meaning heart virus gg still. Heart virus > Universe Tree confirmed.

Goku can just Time travel to get the cure.

 

[Fezzih_007]

This matchup give me a Idea.

 

[Robo432343]

Xeno goku is ass
CC goatku>>>

 

[Greenshifter]

I mean, Alien X and Ben should have similar energy signatures, so it probally not gonna be a problem to find.

Alien X’s body doesn’t have a ki signature and I don’t think Goku can just look for cosmic powers? (Basically verse equalizing to both Ben’s mana and Alien X’s cosmic powers is a no-go, can’t have your cake and eat it too. If anything verse equalizing Time Power to Alien X’s cosmic powers makes much more sense)

On what? Is not like he gonna be punching Alien X forever, he can just summon other people to deal with Alien X or reduce his energy to the point he can't anything anyway.

I don’t think activated stamina attacks can be aimed at the pocket dimension without knowing where it is. Alien X can arguably just EE him or hit him with the virus/poison before he summons anyone.

Ok, if he gonna blow up Alien X anyways, he can do by Ki crush the entire multiverse, since he don't need to hold back.

He does need to hold back, I already explained why the multiverse is full of innocent people. I’m sounding like a broken record at this point.

Yeah, but this Goku don't exactly his guard down, so he probally already gonna have that up.

No? We see in Super that just using ki doesn’t protect you against poison. They need to know they’re dealing with a poison user.

He does, but he can also just get out of the Poison area. Unless Alien X poison the entire Multiverse, which Goku can just time travel to get out. If Alien X just poison the time period he is, Goku can time travel to an area that have breathing tanks.

Alien X will obviously poison the area without Goku knowing, Goku will only notice he’s poisoned the moment he gets incapped (heart attack as first symptom for instance)

Weirdly enough no, Goku is basically a Pollyanna, that really not gonna make him feel despair.

Goku’s brain can’t really process infinite information though, he’ll literally go insane. You need explicit feats for this kind of thing, not just a “his spirit doesn’t dwindle easily”.

Goku can just Time travel to get the cure

Again, first symptom will incap him. In speed unequal anything that doesn’t incap him the moment he notices something is wrong is useless and thus won’t be used by Alien X. In speed equal it’s more complicated, but Alien X can just stop Goku from doing something that would allow him to survive. Also it won’t literally be that heart virus, it‘ll be an incurable one.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Alien X can arguably just EE him or hit him with the virus/poison before he summons anyone.

Goku has resistance to EE because of PoD which is also 5D, in addition to RE for things like Time Power.

And even if he dies, he could revive himself.

In R1 and R2 I don't think you could even use the poison argument, since he doesn't have that in his profile. Yes, stupid, but it would be like that.

Since the wiki seems to disagree with giving the powers of other aliens to alien x since you mentioned that this crt already existed.

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku has resistance to EE because of PoD which is also 5D, in addition to RE for things like Time Power.

There’s the “Sidra’s lackey wielded a fodder Hakai ball” argument, I just need someone to confirm that Sidra’s lackey’s Hakai ball did indeed get upgraded from 3D to 4D in DBS. Though fair on the TP stuff I suppose.

And even if he dies, he could revive himself.

You’re just not gonna address the “EE him while he’s going to the Afterlife” argument? His resistances don’t apply since he doesn’t have a physical body and can’t think in that moment.

In R1 and R2 I don't think you could even use the poison argument, since he doesn't have that in his profile. Yes, stupid, but it would be like that.

It falls under creation as Alien X has created poisons and viruses when he recreated the universe. Way to go Ben

Since the wiki seems to disagree with giving the powers of other aliens to alien x since you mentioned that this crt already existed.

Yeah, only stuff which logically follows from recreating the universe is allowed. So no phasing or anything like that for instance.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

There’s the “Sidra’s lackey wielded a fodder Hakai ball” argument, I just need someone to confirm that Sidra’s lackey’s Hakai did indeed get upgraded from 3D to 4D in DBS. Though fair on the TP stuff I suppose.

Sidra just made a ball of hakai and gave it to the guy, because for some reason it would have a lower dimensionality? Furthermore, RE.

You’re just not gonna address the “EE him while he’s going to the Afterlife” argument?

Alien x has no non-physical interaction for souls.

 

[Greenshifter]

Sidra just made a ball of hakai and gave it to the guy, because for some reason it would have a lower dimensionality?

Frieza pretty easily dealt with that Hakai ball yet gets slaughtered by Toppo who’s merely a candidate, you tell me.

Furthermore, RE.

Already conceded on that.

Alien x has no non-physical interaction for souls.

Nice try:
“High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history”

All of existence includes the Timestream and the Afterlife in Ben 10.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Frieza pretty easily dealt with that Hakai ball yet gets slaughtered by Toppo who’s merely a candidate, you tell me.

That hakai from toppo just had a stronger destructive power, than that little sphere hakai that cider made.

Like, Frieza anyway stayed inside toppo's hakai and didn't suffer any of the hakai's effects like EE, corrosion and deconstruction, which should have happened the moment he touched him.

He resisted the hakai, he just couldn't control it like he did with the cider and couldn't withstand the raw destructive power that toppo did.

Nice try:
“High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, soul, and at least one other fundamental aspect of a character's existence. Such an aspect could be their place in the narrative, their history”

All of existence includes the Timestream and the Afterlife in Ben 10.

Besides, I don't understand what you're talking about, since even if he destroyed everything, he wouldn't be able to interact with Goku Soul.

I totally forgot that Xeno is resistant to Demon God ki, which has 5D poison hax.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Alien X’s body doesn’t have a ki signature and I don’t think Goku can just look for cosmic powers? (Basically verse equalizing to both Ben’s mana and Alien X’s cosmic powers is a no-go, can’t have your cake and eat it too. If anything verse equalizing Time Power to Alien X’s cosmic powers makes much more sense)

Goku can sense two types of energy, normal Ki and Good Ki, so If we think this trought, we can say he could sense this two energies. And also, Ins't Selena and Bellicus there? He could sense them too.

I don’t think activated stamina attacks can be aimed at the pocket dimension without knowing where it is.

Probally, but like Goku could find where they are. Like, Goku can sense things that separated 1 universe away from him.

Alien X can arguably just EE him or hit him with the virus/poison before he summons anyone.

EE would't work due to him having resistance, and Lethal Poison is not really In-character, so Goku summoning people, which he is more susceptible to do, seems more likely.

He does need to hold back, I already explained why the multiverse is full of innocent people. I’m sounding like a broken record at this point.

Did you? Because you just said that is not empty, without explaining why. Like, SBA said that no outside Influence is allowed, which would mean no population from either side of the verse would interact in this battle, so a empty universe.

Also, he can just use the Dragon Balls to wish everything back, like in the Moro Arc, when he let a bunch of planets die while he trained, and later revived everyone.

No? We see in Super that just using ki doesn’t protect you against poison. They need to know they’re dealing with a poison user.

Yeah, but when Alien X try to use poison, he can eat a Senzu bean to cure himself, and put a barrier on to avoid.

Alien X will """"""obviously"""""" poison the area without Goku knowing,

Goku would sense If suddenly the air gets poisened, he does have a above average nose to noticed something like that.

Goku will only notice he’s poisoned the moment he gets incapped (heart attack as first symptom for instance)

Considering he have poison resistance, he could noticed way sooner, before he can get Incapacited.

Goku’s brain can’t really process infinite information though, he’ll literally go insane.

But he would't process Infinite information, he just need to find where Ben is. Why you saying It would take him a Infinite ammount of time?

 

[Killerdrone123]

Damn I missed the whole party

 

[Killerdrone123]

Round 1
Goku wins dimensional domain + status effect inducement+higher ap=gg and if you give him key sword he would powernull all of alien x attacks passively.

Round 2
Goku wins by the reasons above but with speed advantage

Round 3 and 4

Goku wins because he has boundary manipulation and he is gokuversal



Come debate me when your mc can pull this of

 

[Greenshifter]

That hakai from toppo just had a stronger destructive power, than that little sphere hakai that cider made.

UES, so if Sidra is holding back his AP, he’s also holding back his hax potency.

Like, Frieza anyway stayed inside toppo's hakai and didn't suffer any of the hakai's effects like EE, corrosion and deconstruction, which should have happened the moment he touched him.

Toppo held it back due to tournament rules.

Besides, I don't understand what you're talking about, since even if he destroyed everything, he wouldn't be able to interact with Goku Soul.

Someone’s history is treated as at least as fundamental, if not more so than their soul. So yes, he would. And the Afterlife contains souls and is thus a spiritual place in Ben 10.

I totally forgot that Xeno is resistant to Demon God ki, which has 5D poison hax

5D poison hax isn’t a thing, you’ve said it yourself that poison shouldn’t work with “layers”. So if it doesn’t have “layers”, it doesn’t have higher-D potency either since that’s basically an uncountably infinite amount of “layers”.

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku can sense two types of energy, normal Ki and Good Ki, so If we think this trought, we can say he could sense this two energies.

Good ki is just a subset of normal ki, so no.

And also, Ins't Selena and Bellicus there? He could sense them too.

You’re still not getting it, he could sense them but he wouldn’t know they’re his opponents.

Probally, but like Goku could find where they are. Like, Goku can sense things that separated 1 universe away from him.

1 universe doesn’t cover and read above

EE would't work due to him having resistance, and Lethal Poison is not really In-character, so Goku summoning people, which he is more susceptible to do, seems more likely.

Fair argument, I’ll count your vote for R1. Personally I think Bellicus and Serena will make the right move before Goku does due to nigh-omniscience though.

Did you? Because you just said that is not empty, without explaining why. Like, SBA said that no outside Influence is allowed, which would mean no population from either side of the verse would interact in this battle, so an empty universe.

Because Goku’s spirit bomb is stronger if there are a lot of people in the multiverse and I don’t want to restrict his spirit bomb potency. Also Goku’s BFR to King Kai’s planet necessitates that King Kai exists in the multiverse.

Also, he can just use the Dragon Balls to wish everything back, like in the Moro Arc, when he let a bunch of planets die while he trained, and later revived everyone.

He WHAT?! Anyways different Goku so doesn’t count. That Goku’s main priority is earth anyways so it makes sense.

Yeah, but when Alien X try to use poison, he can eat a Senzu bean to cure himself, and put a barrier on to avoid.

Already responded to this, the whole point of the poison argument is that Goku gets incapped the moment he notices he’s poisoned.

Goku would sense If suddenly the air gets poisened, he does have an above average nose to noticed something like that.

Could just make the poison odorless my guy.

Considering he have poison resistance, he could noticed way sooner, before he can get Incapacited.

What if it just causes his blood to clutter? He won’t notice that until it’s too late. Despite his resistance, there are several ways to have him not be aware of the poison until it’s too late.

But he would't process Infinite information, he just need to find where Ben is. Why you saying It would take him an Infinite ammount of time?

From his perspective it would take him an infinite amount of time, he would need to consciously look around and pick up on clues to see if the reality he is in contains the opponent he is looking for. There are also infinite Bens in the multiverse, so even if he recognizes the Omnitrix, there’s no guarantee he’s got the right Ben.

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku wins dimensional domain + status effect inducement+higher ap=gg and if you give him key sword he would powernull all of alien x attacks passively.

Prove DD and the status effect inducement hax even have the range to hit him.

Goku wins by the reasons above but with speed advantage

See above

Goku wins because he has boundary manipulation and he is gokuversal

I concede

 

[Phsccarvalho]

5D poison hax isn’t a thing, you’ve said it yourself that poison shouldn’t work with “layers”. So if it doesn’t have “layers”, it doesn’t have higher-D potency either since that’s basically an uncountably infinite amount of “layers”.

In fact, yes, it works, it's a higher dimensional question. Unless you find an accepted crt that says otherwise.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Just because x hax doesn't have the conventional layer system doesn't mean it doesn't have dimensionality.

 

[Greenshifter]

In fact, yes, it works, it's a higher dimensional question. Unless you find an accepted crt that says otherwise.

Just because x hax doesn't have the conventional layer system doesn't mean it doesn't have dimensionality.

See this is the point where UES went too far, @DBH bros (and specifically @GilverTheProtoAngelo) is 5D poison an actual thing that's accepted on VSBW? And what's the justification that it's more potent than just "poison"? Like with fire you could at least argue it has 5D heat, but with poison... is the argument that it's an infinitely lethal dose or something?

 

[Greenshifter]

Bump.

Also I think I made up my mind on the 5D poison thing. It’s bs. The way you argue higher-D haxes are really potent when used against lower-D beings is by saying the hax is compacted and thus more effective (which btw applies to differences in range within a certain dimensionality as well but I digress). However if you argue this for poison, you’re effectively saying DBH characters shoot an infinitely compacted gas or liquid at someone, which would create a black hole… and since Bloody Sauce doesn’t create a black hole, it’s just regular 3D poison.