Xeno Goku vs Alien X (Again)

[Greenshifter]

I’m doing this myself this time and in F&G so it doesn’t get closed again (and I’m doing rounds so).

Round 1: Pages are used, speed equalized
Round 2: Pages are used, speed unequalized
Round 3: Free arguments, speed equalized
Round 4: Free arguments, speed unequalized

No Keysword for Goku

SBA for everything else

Alien L Jobber X:

The Second Strongest Goku: @Fezzih_007 (R1)

Type 9 immortality is a bitch:

 

[Quantu]

Bro said

 

[Fezzih_007]

Round 1: Pages are used, speed equalized

Goku Wins by stealing Alien x stamina

Round 2: Pages are used, speed unequalized

Goku speedblitz

Round 3: Free arguments, speed equalized
Round 4: Free arguments, speed unequalized

Goku is 9D, so..

 

[Vietthai96]

Round 3: Free arguments, speed equalized
Round 4: Free arguments, speed unequalized

High 1-A passive Ki crush GG

 

[Quantu]

Alien X wins round 3 and 4

 

[Vietthai96]

Omnipotent still lose to Gokuversal level so......

 

[Greenshifter]

Goku Wins by stealing Alien x stamina

He doesn't "steal" stamina, he modifies it. This only happens if Ben attacks Goku, Bellicus and Serena can just reverse time on Ben to give him his stamina back.

Goku speedblitz

Xeno Goku will blitz and destroy Alien X’s body and think he defeated him.

Which will result in Ben, Bellicus and Serena realizing that he’s a serious threat.

They can then look into his history (or the saiyan race's history) and figure out his weaknesses. At that point they can just spawn an ultra-super virus/poison near/in him which will instantly incapacitate him once it becomes active. He also can't speedblitz this since it'll be a part of his body and thus also increase in speed the moment he becomes aware of it.

Goku is 9D, so..

The old meta was like 12D and Alien X has ez (High) 1-B arguments, so..

High 1-A passive Ki crush GG

Now we're talking! OoC because the multiverse will be full of lifeforms, after all I wouldn't wanna restrict Goku's ability to BFR someone to King Kai's planet or use the Spirit Bomb effectively (now if this were Vegeta...). Also define the haxes of ki crush for me.

 

[Vietthai96]

Like before, Goku mere presence when transforming gonna destroy time, so.......

Beside you doesn't restrict Summoning, he can summon Chronoa to restore everything back after he done with Alien X

 

[Greenshifter]

Like before, Goku mere presence when transforming gonna destroy time, so.......

Yeah Ik, he'll hold it back like he does in canon to not destroy the multiverse.

Beside you doesn't restrict Summon, he can sumon Chronoa to restore everything back after he done with Alien X

I'm not even sure if Chronoa can restore everything that Goku destroys (Toki was needed for Mechi), but even then Goku clearly has a problem with the timelines being destroyed since it's his literal job to protect them. They were literally pissed at Aios for destroying a couple timelines. He also doesn't know about the pocket dimension and thus has no guarantee that nuking everything will defeat Alien X. Btw you could have still made that argument if I had restricted summoning since it's after the fight is over.

 

[Vietthai96]

As long as it doesn't involve innocent life, which under SBA only combatant are present in the battlefield, he will go wild

Chronoa can restore thing back,in Ultra God Mission literally she use her power to kick Time Scroll to restore eveything back

 

[Greenshifter]

High 1-A

Also prove it's High 1-A, I'm curious. Though I'll probably steelman it regardless.

 

[Greenshifter]

which under SBA only combatant are present in the battlefield

Quote it from the page. It also doesn't matter since per versus rules you aren't allowed to restrict abilities which an empty battlefield would do as explained previously.

Chronoa can restore thing back,in Ultra God Mission literally she use her power to kick Time Scroll to restore eveything back

Eh Goku passively destroys the Time Scrolls in your scenario though.

 

[Fezzih_007]

He doesn't "steal" stamina, he modifies it.

What?

This only happens if Ben attacks Goku

No It does not, It happens If Goku attacks Alien X too. And he also can passively reduce Bem stamina.

, Bellicus and Serena can just reverse time on Ben to give him his stamina back.

No, Ben would lose energy, and fall back on the transformation, before they can do anything.
And nothing stops for Goku to make he loses his stamina again.

Xeno Goku will blitz and destroy Alien X’s body and think he defeated him.

Why Goku destroy his body? He can just punch Alien X, and don't make him explode.

They can then look into his history (or the saiyan race's history) and figure out his weaknesses. At that point they can just spawn an ultra-super virus/poison near/in him which will instantly incapacitate him once it becomes active

Goku would gain a resistance, yeah.

The old meta was like 12D and Alien X has ez (High) 1-B arguments, so..

I can dwbunked then, don't worry.

 

[Vietthai96]

Eh Goku passively destroys the Time Scrolls in your scenario though.

He can't destroy it with Ki alone, literally through out the game no one can destrot it with Ki, only Time Power users can erase the scroll, that is the entire reason and plot in World Mission, Sealas need to find a way to destroy Time Scroll. Also Goku can summon Chronoa after he finish Alien X, Time Scroll will not be presented during that time lol, until Chronoa is summoned, and even if it is destroyed, she can make a new one.

Also Goku can actually summon true form Tokitoko directly

 

[Greenshifter]

What?

Stealing stamina means he uses it to recover his own stamina, which is not DD.

No It does not, It happens If Goku attacks Alien X too. And he also can passively reduce Bem stamina.

The body's stamina would be reduced, but like it basically has no stamina on its own since it's just a puppet. Prove Xeno Goku has the range to reduce Ben's stamina, both actively and passively.

No, Ben would lose energy, and fall back on the transformation, before they can do anything.
And nothing stops for Goku to make he loses his stamina again.

That's not how Alien X works lol, Ben ain't detransforming unless Bellicus and Serena allow him to. Heck draining the stamina of the Omnitrix wouldn't work either. He would keep doing it but it doesn't matter since Ben will just start affecting Goku indirectly.

Why Goku destroy his body? He can just punch Alien X, and don't make him explode.

Ok? That has no point though...

Goku would gain a resistance, yeah.

RE? That's more-so for techniques and it clearly didn't work agains the heart virus.

I can dwbunked then, don't worry.

Sure, give it a shot.

 

[Greenshifter]

He can't destroy it with Ki alone, literally through out the game no one can destrot it with Ki, only Time Power users can erase the scroll, that is the entire reason and plot in World Mission, Sealas need to find a way to destroy Time Scroll.

This Goku is way stronger than that Goku. Only people who are stronger than Xeno Vegito (vs Mechi) have the ability to interact with the Time Scrolls.

Also Goku can summon Chronoa after he finish Alien X, Time Scroll will not be presented during that time lol

They are in the Time Vault which is in the multiverse so.

even if it is destroyed, she can make a new one.

Oh fr? Noice.

This all doesn't target the main point though, Goku won't do it cause there are innocent people in the multiverse.

Also Goku can actually summon true form Tokitoko directly

Yeah Ik

 

[Vietthai96]

This Goku is way stronger than that Goku. Only people who are stronger than Xeno Vegito (vs Mechi) have the ability to interact with the Time Scrolls.

Lol no, Time Scroll literally can't be destroyed no matter what everyone in the verse does, there is a reason why Time Scroll's durability is unknown

They are in the Time Vault which is in the multiverse so.

Aren't SBA mean they fighting in a neutral multiverse, at least???, so why Time Vault is present???, also Goku can't destroy the Scroll anyway no matter what

This all doesn't target the main point though, Goku won't do it cause there are innocent people in the multiverse

Unless he know there is innocent peoples, and it is irrelevant anyway, Goku actually understand there is casualties in battle, as long as he has option to bring people back like Dragon Ball, he gonna go wild.

Also, he can sense interdimension and across infinite multiverse, so pocket dimensiom body or not, no one gonna escapes him

 

[Greenshifter]

Lol no, Time Scroll literally can't be destroyed no matter what everyone in the verse does, there is a reason why Time Scroll's durability is unknown

That’s a positive claim, now prove it.

Aren't SBA mean they fighting in a neutral multiverse, at least???, so why Time Vault is present???, also Goku can't destroy the Scroll anyway no matter what

By default sure, but SBA also states that if disadvantages are generated due to this battlefield choice, an alternative should be discussed. In this case Goku is disadvantaged because his BFR to King Kai’s planet doesn’t work in a neutral battlefield. Since Goku can potentially time travel kill Alien X (despite type 5 acausality) the fight should take place in a fusion between DBH and Ben 10’s multiverse. Which Ig means Goku can’t move due to the extreme gravity, though I suppose we’d have to alter that as well so as to not disadvantage him again.

Unless he know there is innocent peoples, and it is irrelevant anyway, Goku actually understand there is casualties in battle, as long as he has option to bring people back like Dragon Ball, he gonna go wild.

Why doesn’t he go wild all the time then? And he literally knows these people are innocent. Since when is killing infinite people to kill 1 guy something Goku would do? It literally includes one of his friends too and CC Goku apologized to King Kai who didn’t like being dead.

Also, he can sense interdimension and across infinite multiverse, so pocket dimensiom body or not, no one gonna escapes him

he can sense ki signatures yes, but he doesn’t know Ben’s ki signature (Alien X’s body doesn’t have a ki signature) so he has no idea what he’s even looking for (and Bellicus and Serena predate mana so)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Hadn't Alien X lost that time?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I’m doing this myself this time and in F&G so it doesn’t get closed again (and I’m doing rounds so).

If you really think that can stop me, you are sorely mistaken

 

[Greenshifter]

Hadn't Alien X lost that time?

A bunch of people saying stomp without accounting for Alien X’s physiology doesn’t really count as a valid vote. So there weren’t even 7 votes yet and we were in the middle of the debate.

If you really think that can stop me, you are sorely mistaken

A heads up that you were going to close the previous one would have been nice. Or at least a message saying that you’re closing it in the thread itself.

That said you have no idea what kind of shit I can pull for Alien X in R3 and R4 (they call me the Putin of Powerscaling for a reason), so sit tight and enjoy the show I’d say.

 

[Greenshifter]

@TheGreatBanana Come on out and face me instead of liking people’s comments will ya? Someone has to entertain me while I wait for Ottavio’s arrival.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

A bunch of people saying stomp without accounting for Alien X’s physiology doesn’t really count as a valid vote. So there weren’t even 7 votes yet and we were in the middle of the debate.

Can you explain to me how Alien X’s physiology works?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Stealing stamina means he uses it to recover his own stamina, which is not DD.

Wow,
You kinda nitpicking my words now.

The body's stamina would be reduced, but like it basically has no stamina on its own since it's just a puppet.

Yeah sure.

Prove Xeno Goku has the range to reduce Ben's stamina, both actively and passively.

Why? Like, even If he don't have the range, he can go where Ben is a reduce his stamina anyway.

That's not how Alien X works lol, Ben ain't detransforming unless Bellicus and Serena allow him to. Heck draining the stamina of the Omnitrix wouldn't work either.

Why It would't work? I mean, i not remember that never working with Ben, i remember the opposite actually.

Ok? That has no point though...

I mean, if Goku don't explode Ben, why he would think he is a serious threat? Because he knock Alien X out? Not sure If In-character for him to want to kill Goku with poison, or want to kill in general.

RE? That's more-so for techniques

Not really, It works against poisons too. Well, atleast It did in Dragon Ball Super.

and it clearly didn't work agains the heart virus.

That's kinda unfair, since that Goku don't have RE the same level as Xeno Goku.

Sure, give it a shot.

Ok, i gonna go find It.

 

[Greenshifter]

@LuffyRuffy46307 Not better than the page itself: “Alien X's consciousness which comprises of three personalities/beings, namely Serena, Bellicus, and Ben who is physically present, resides somewhere outside of the universe, disconnected from space-time, and exists independently of their body and can perform all actions without said body. For characters to be able to affect this consciousness they must have 2-A range and at that must be able to not just locate the pocket dimension and the personalities within for non-AoE moves, but also affect all of them at once”

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

@LuffyRuffy46307 Not better than the page itself: “Alien X's consciousness which comprises of three personalities/beings, namely Serena, Bellicus, and Ben who is physically present, resides somewhere outside of the universe, disconnected from space-time, and exists independently of their body and can perform all actions without said body. For characters to be able to affect this consciousness they must have 2-A range and at that must be able to not just locate the pocket dimension and the personalities within for non-AoE moves, but also affect all of them at once”

So this is easy to affect, all DBH characters have low range 1-C, wouldn't that be enough? In addition to affecting abstract beings and concepts with ki

 

[Greenshifter]

Everything that comes after the 2-A range is the important part for this fight. It’s like finding a needle in a haystack without even knowing you’re looking for a needle. Goku’s ability to find needles that he has encountered previously won’t help either since he hasn’t encountered Ben Tennyson before.

Now you could just argue Goku blows up the haystack, but the fight is set up in such a way that his needle-friends are in the haystack as well.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Everything that comes after the 2-A range is the important part for this fight. It’s like finding a needle in a haystack without even knowing you’re looking for a needle. Goku’s ability to find needles that he has encountered previously won’t help either since he hasn’t encountered Ben Tennyson before.

Now you could just argue Goku blows up the haystack, but the fight is set up in such a way that his needle-friends are in the haystack as well.

Are you talking about the dimension where the alien X is? If so, the paradox managed to get there through time manipulation, right?I don't remember exactly, it's been years since I watched Ben 10.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

That said you have no idea what kind of shit I can pull for Alien X in R3 and R4 (they call me the Putin of Powerscaling for a reason), so sit tight and enjoy the show I’d say.

I genuinely don't care, sorry.

 

[Greenshifter]

Wow,
You kinda nitpicking my words now.

Yes

Why? Like, even If he don't have the range, he can go where Ben is a reduce his stamina anyway.

He can’t, since he doesn’t know Ben’s ki signature.

Why It would't work? I mean, i not remember that never working with Ben, i remember the opposite actually.

Because Bellicus said that Ben is never turning back in AF, this implies that Azmuth himself could intervene and Ben would still stay transformed as Alien X.

I mean, if Goku don't explode Ben, why he would think he is a serious threat? Because he knock Alien X out?

Alien X’s body is a puppet so he can’t be knocked out. If Goku doesn’t blow up Alien X’s body then he’s just wasting time.

Not sure If In-character for him to want to kill Goku with poison, or want to kill in general.

Gutrot exists and you have not watched Ben 10. It’s not like Goku is giving him a lot of a choice and if Ben won’t do it then Bellicus and Serena will.

Not really, It works against poisons too.

Creating a barrier =/= RE whatsoever.

That's kinda unfair, since that Goku don't have RE the same level as Xeno Goku.

The page links to GT and Super feats so. Also it’s a general Saiyan thing.

Ok, i gonna go find It.

Good luck with finding a decent debunk, especially for the High 1-B stuff.

 

[Greenshifter]

I genuinely don't care, sorry.

Aight, np

Are you talking about the dimension where the alien X is? If so, the paradox managed to get there through time manipulation, right?I don't remember exactly, it's been years since I watched Ben 10.

Yes, so Paradox just knows where it is since he has a map of space-time in his head.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yes, so Paradox just knows where it is since he has a map of space-time in his head.

So it must be possible to get there with range, it affects all dimensions and it will get there eventually

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Nice work, Green. I'm coming for you.

 

[TiltedFN]

goku is irrelevant layers into high boundless+++ with irrelevant layers above baseline high irrelevant speed, he one shots and its not close.

 

[Greenshifter]

it affects all dimensions and it will get there eventually

What does? Goku’s ki? Sure. I’m not saying that Goku can’t destroy Alien X, I’m saying that he won’t. This would be a totally different discussion if we were talking about say Demigra.

 

[Greenshifter]

Nice work, Green. I'm coming for you.

Yeey! Finally some counterarguments incoming.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

What does? Goku’s ki? Sure. I’m not saying that Goku can’t destroy Alien X, I’m saying that he won’t. This would be a totally different discussion if we’re talking about say Demigra.

Why won't he go? Since he can

Someone wrong is not right

 

[Greenshifter]

goku is irrelevant layers into high boundless+++ with irrelevant layers above baseline high irrelevant speed, he one shots and its not close.

Boundless is bound by dimensionality and onions have layers. I have both Alien X and Goku above this.

 

[Quantu]

Green Lantern and Superman come to fodderize these two

 

[Greenshifter]

Why won't he go?

Even if Goku were to traverse the multiverse for no reason whatsoever (nothing indicates that he should do this), he’ll come across Ben, Bellicus and Serena and think he’s just a dude chilling inside a pocket dimension rather than his opponent. Maybe he’ll recognize the Omnitrix? I don’t think Goku has the mental fortitude to check infinite timelines anyways so (it would require him to spend an infinite amount of time from his perspective without being able to talk to anyone, literally driving him insane)