World of Warcraft: Mists of Always being Revised

[Udlmaster]

Actually, I'mma respond to a few of them, as to not get it twisted:

Horrific Visions aren't Ny'alotha.

"Ny'alotha is the setting of the raid instance of the same name. Players can also enter Ny'alotha through Lesser and Horrific Visions of N'Zoth, depicting versions of Uldum, the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, Stormwind City, and Orgrimmar that have fallen to N'Zoth's influence."

All you showed is that N'zoth is the one shaping Ny'alotha in the present, not that he created it.

And you have no proof that the Old Gods collectively created it, the only proof being that it's N'zoth's vision of Azeroth, therefore, by Occam's razor, it'd logically be N'zoth's creation.

That's what horrific visions are. Ny'alotha is what N'zoth envisions (which means "to plan" fyi) for the future of Azeroth.

"As despair and madness consume the land, the heroes of the Horde and the Alliance will need to fight for their sanity—and the fate of their wounded world. Delve further into the future that the Old God N’Zoth envisions for Azeroth and gird your mind against his maddening Assaults and Horrific Visions."
Ny'alotha and the Horrific Visions are literally the same thing. People saying "They're not real" could equally mean "They're isn't the real world, don't succumb to the visions"

Vision of the Twisting Sands:​

"The Vision of the Twisting Sands is a constructed realm created by N'Zoth as a corrupted form of Uldum. In this vision, Ramkahen is a slowly dying light. With their king assimilated, it is only a matter of time before chaos reigns supreme among those who still resist."

Etc. They all have similar descriptions to this.

They describe the Visions in exactly the same way, Ny'alotha is what N'zoth evisions for Azeroth. The Visions are what N'zoth envisions for (Insert Specific local here)

Hell, the fact you have to go into them and clean them out kinda proves that it's not just in N'zoth's mind the first place, otherwise, what would be the point?

I don't care to argue the other points, the Warcraft 3 related ones about the Chronicles is contradicted by Reforged, which is more up to date, same with the Lore constantly contradicting the Chronicles. The other points are self-evidently debunked by previous points or just don't make sense, so people can just see that by themselves without my help.

Especially the Time related part about Warcraft 3, the destruction of Northrend in the Chronicles seems to take even less time than Reforged.


As for the rest of the points, I think everyone can see the absurdity in them, so I won't bother to respond because I don't want to post a bible.

 

[Udlmaster]

Cenarius, Thrall, and Whitemane probably have the worst profiles, especially Whitemane. Holy shit.

I'mma make Whiteman's RPG profile look like THE SHIT rather than Shit

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'mma make Whiteman's RPG profile look like THE SHIT rather than Shit

Honestly Whitemane's canon profile burns my eyes...

 

[M2B3]

And you have no proof that the Old Gods collectively created it, the only proof being that it's N'zoth's vision of Azeroth, therefore, by Occam's razor, it'd logically be N'zoth's creation.

That doesn't change the fact that it was the domain of all of the Old Gods and not just N'zoth in the past. i.e, Ny'alotha being solely what N'zoth envisions is a recent development. The rest of your response is just you ignoring that and the fact that I've already proved that you don't need to be the creator of a realm in order to shape it.

"Ny'alotha is the setting of the raid instance of the same name. Players can also enter Ny'alotha through Lesser and Horrific Visions of N'Zoth, depicting versions of Uldum, the Vale of Eternal Blossoms, Stormwind City, and Orgrimmar that have fallen to N'Zoth's influence."

"The Vision of the Twisting Sands is a constructed realm created by N'Zoth as a corrupted form of Uldum. In this vision, Ramkahen is a slowly dying light. With their king assimilated, it is only a matter of time before chaos reigns supreme among those who still resist."

I followed your links and they all lead to a bunch of wiki articles whose own sources seem to be... nothing. This might as well have been written by you for all we know.

Ny'alotha and the Horrific Visions are literally the same thing. People saying "They're not real" could equally mean "They're isn't the real world, don't succumb to the visions"

Occam's razor says otherwise. Using that's it's just illusions as Wrathion says. Not to mention that the vision of the Corrupted Wrathion completely debunks your point before you even made it.

They describe the Visions in exactly the same way, Ny'alotha is what N'zoth evisions for Azeroth. The Visions are what N'zoth envisions for (Insert Specific local here)

Except no one ever said that Ny'alotha is just a figment of N'zoth's mind. The difference is that one is real and the other one is happening inside someone's head.

Hell, the fact you have to go into them and clean them out kinda proves that it's not just in N'zoth's mind the first place, otherwise, what would be the point?

First of all, this is just a red herring. Nothing that you've said here acts as any kind of evidence against the fact that you're inside of N'zoth's mind. Let alone having the weight to dispute a literal statement from the Lead Developer of WoW. If anything, it does the exact opposite. Going into the same vision over and over again and killing the exact same creatures that you've just killed is pretty hard evidence that none of this is actually real.

Second, the point of entering horrific visions is to increase your resistance to N'zoth's influence. As it was from the very start when Wrathion first proposes it. You're there to make sure that you're ready for when you actually have to enter Ny'alotha for real and face N'zoth.

the Warcraft 3 related ones about the Chronicles is contradicted by Reforged

Oof, sorry to bring you the bad news but, Reforged is just a visual upgrade. Nu-Blizzard didn't touch the story or the cutscenes at all. So no, Reforged doesn't contradict the Chronicles in the slightest. The fact that you once again failed to provide any kind of a source only further proves this.

The other points are self-evidently debunked by previous points or just don't make sense, so people can just see that by themselves without my help.

As for the rest of the points, I think everyone can see the absurdity in them, so I won't bother to respond because I don't want to post a bible.

Now, leaving the blatant appeal to popularity aside,

It's not my problem that you don't want to post. You had already dropped much of the points that you'd originally made before you started trying to suffocate the discussion with your "bible" excuse anyways. It's you who has been refuted and it's you who's failing to provide any kind of a counter-argument. And not for a lack of reasons either. Most of your posts are just groundless conjecture and outright fan-fiction. The fact is, you're either willing to defend your argument or you aren't. And you aren't.

 

[DaReaperMan]

SOME people don't want to post an essay any time they want to rebuttal someone. Warcraft needs to be unfucked and you seriously aren't helping, and I know full well you'll stonewall on High 3-A titans even when there are at least 3 High 3-A feats from titans/characters empowered or comperable to titans.

 

[M2B3]

SOME people don't want to post an essay any time they want to rebuttal someone. Warcraft needs to be unfucked and you seriously aren't helping, and I know full well you'll stonewall on High 3-A titans even when there are at least 3 High 3-A feats from titans/characters empowered or comperable to titans.

Yes, yes, I heard all of this the first 5 times it was said. You're not really adding anything new to the discussion. Well, to be precise you're not adding anything to the discussion at all.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Then why are you posting essays? One point at a time would be reasonable.

 

[M2B3]

Because of the way this thread was made, obviously. There's absolutely no reason why this thread had to involve 20 different characters and 30 different claims at the same time, but it does so anyways. Not to mention that any of you could have done that as well. Anyways, it's raid night so I'll be calling it here for the day.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And you don't know how to type "lets take this one point at a time."? Enjoy your raid.

 

[Shmooply]

And you don't know how to type "lets take this one point at a time."? Enjoy your raid.

what a passive-agressive comment

 

[DaReaperMan]

what a passive-agressive comment

I'm in a passive aggressive mood

 

[Udlmaster]

That doesn't change the fact that it was the domain of all of the Old Gods and not just N'zoth in the past. i.e, Ny'alotha being solely what N'zoth envisions is a recent development.

And? Yog made the Emerald Nightmare but the other Old Gods made use of it, Ill'gynoth, a Major boss of the Emerald Nightmare is a portion of N'zoth. Does that now retroactively mean that N'zoth also made the Emerald Nightmare, or, does it more logically mean that Old Gods just take advantage of what they can.

I followed your links and they all lead to a bunch of wiki articles whose own sources seem to be... nothing. This might as well have been written by you for all we know.

It's from Wowpedia, which is a credible source. And very interesting accusation, check the History logs then, it'll prove you wrong, this is just a weird accusation to deflect from the fact that you have no retort.

Occam's razor says otherwise. Using that's it's just illusions as Wrathion says. Not to mention that the vision of the Corrupted Wrathion completely debunks your point before you even made it.

Preponderance of Evidence debunks Wrathion's Illusion statement, which in itself is dubious as pointed out above.

Not to mention, Wrathion was pretty ******* afraid of "illusions".

Except no one ever said that Ny'alotha is just a figment of N'zoth's mind. The difference is that one is real and the other one is happening inside someone's head.

It's not in his mind, it just says:

Delve further into the future that the Old God N’Zoth envisions for Azeroth and gird your mind against his maddening Assaults and Horrific Visions.

C'thun being fully unleashed

Ironically, in the Visions of N'zoth update video, ************* Ion Hazzikostas says we've never fought an unleashed Old God, so another contradiction to add to the Chronicles from the Game Director

Back to Horrific Visions

In the Visions of N'zoth content video, it literally shows The Horrific Vision for Vale of Eternal Blossoms & Org when Ion Hazzikostas is talking about Ny'alotha.

In that video, he directly states that as N'zoth is tearing down the thin barriers between the Worlds, these appear as "Horrible Nightmares and Dark Visions".

You are wrong.

Oof, sorry to bring you the bad news but, Reforged is just a visual upgrade. Nu-Blizzard didn't touch the story or the cutscenes at all. So no, Reforged doesn't contradict the Chronicles in the slightest. The fact that you once again failed to provide any kind of a source only further proves this.

If the story was so incorrect, why didn't they just retcon certain events or change them like they do with WoW, it's not like they haven't done this before. Hell, even with the "visual update only", they don't make the purely visual changes, like a orbital cannon, that the Chronicles says happens, despite changes like proper appearances, completely new items, like Warlord's Gul'dan's staff and many other additions which fall in line with the new lore.

It's not my problem that you don't want to post. You had already dropped much of the points that you'd originally made before you started trying to suffocate the discussion with your "bible" excuse anyways.

Not wanting to respond to a ******* bible every time I come to this thread is not dropping points.

I think everyone can agree, you are an exhausting person to talk to, not because you have points to refute, but you make such long winded arguments that barely go anywhere.

You are rude, embarrassingly limited in your thinking and a drain on anyone you come in contact with, and declaring yourself the winner in an empty room, go right ahead, but no one will see you and no one will thank you.

Here King, the Smartest and Dumbest person in the empty room. Have fun with that.

 

[Greatsage13th]

@M2B3 Jesus Christ, most of your arguements are kinda redundant at this point.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Let's not continue the insults, I'd rather just get the thread done if at all possible.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

On a side note, while they may not always provide context, Wowpedia is about as reliable a source as one may find outside of the actual game.

 

[DaReaperMan]

On a side note, while they may not always provide context, Wowpedia is about as reliable a source as one may find outside of the actual game.

Agreed.

 

[Greatsage13th]

On a side note, while they may not always provide context, Wowpedia is about as reliable a source as one may find outside of the actual game.

True

 

[M2B3]

And? Yog made the Emerald Nightmare but the other Old Gods made use of it, Ill'gynoth, a Major boss of the Emerald Nightmare is a portion of N'zoth. Does that now retroactively mean that N'zoth also made the Emerald Nightmare, or, does it more logically mean that Old Gods just take advantage of what they can.

Why are you repeating my argument back to me? If you understand that the Old Gods don't need to create something in order to use it then why are you trying to attribute the creation of Ny'alotha to N'zoth solely on the fact that he's the one who is manipulating it during BfA?

It's from Wowpedia, which is a credible source.

WoWpedia is a community-driven wiki, and like any unofficial website is only as credible as the proof that's backing up whatever's written on it. In this case, that would be nothing. Trying to dispute a developer and several in-game statements using fan-made posts only exposes your lack of objectivity and sound reasoning. If that wasn't enough, Wowpedia even admits to only be speculating on the nature of the horrific visions on the Visions of N'zoth page. A fact you seemingly chose to omit.

Preponderance of Evidence debunks Wrathion's Illusion statement, which in itself is dubious as pointed out above.

Evidence? What evidence? The fan-theories you found on Wowpedia and tried to pass off as being "credible" because... you said so? No, that's not preponderant to the multiple official sources that I presented.

Not to mention, Wrathion was pretty ******* afraid of "illusions".

Not falling to the madness of the Old Gods, like his father did, is a central point of Wrathion's character. It's no wonder that he's cautious of walking into N'zoth's mind where you go insane after only a brief stay even if you have some form of protection.

It's not in his mind, it just says:

Delve further into the future that the Old God N’Zoth envisions for Azeroth and gird your mind against his maddening Assaults and Horrific Visions.

And how exactly does quoting what Ion says 3 minutes into the video invalidate what he says 4 minutes later???? All that you've managed to do by mentioning Ion's earlier statement is to reinforce what King Phaoris says about his priests being plagued by visions and nightmares.

Ironically, in the Visions of N'zoth update video, ************* Ion Hazzikostas says we've never fought an unleashed Old God, so another contradiction to add to the Chronicles from the Game Director

Let's see what he actually says, shall we?

For the first time we'll see an Old God unleashed in their full might, in their dark fury.

C'thun may have been freed from his prison but he was never at full power, as I clearly showed you earlier. Ion doesn't contradict what's said in the Chronicles at all.

In the Visions of N'zoth content video, it literally shows The Horrific Vision for Vale of Eternal Blossoms & Org when Ion Hazzikostas is talking about Ny'alotha.

Grasping at the thinnest of straws here. A montage of footage during a content preview featuring said content doesn't count for anything. Let alone as a refutation to what Ion says in the exact same content preview mere minutes later. Again, seeing what you want to see.

Hell, this isn't the only time when the visions are referred to as happening in N'zoth's mind either. If you die during a horrific vision you'll receive a message from Wrathion stating that the act of entering the visions of N'zoth is indeed you invading his mind:

In that video, he directly states that as N'zoth is tearing down the thin barriers between the Worlds, these appear as "Horrible Nightmares and Dark Visions".

Yes. The visions of N'zoth don't just happen spontaneously for no reason at all. N'zoth tearing the barrier between worlds is the catalyst for these visions. That doesn't change the fact that they are visions and nightmares. They aren't real.

If the story was so incorrect, why didn't they just retcon certain events or change them like they do with WoW, it's not like they haven't done this before. Hell, even with the "visual update only", they don't make the purely visual changes, like a orbital cannon, that the Chronicles says happens, despite changes like proper appearances, completely new items, like Warlord's Gul'dan's staff and many other additions which fall in line with the new lore.

I already said cinematics are what wasn't touched. Neither is The lore "incorrect." You are never shown Icecrown (where the storm of magic from Illidan's spell happens). You are just assuming that there was no "orbital cannon." The Chronicles is merely expanding upon what was otherwise left out of view.

Not wanting to respond to a ******* bible every time I come to this thread is not dropping points.

You keep insisting on whining about how difficult it is for you to put some effort in but...

I think everyone can agree, you are an exhausting person to talk to, not because you have points to refute, but you make such long winded arguments that barely go anywhere.

You are rude, embarrassingly limited in your thinking and a drain on anyone you come in contact with, and declaring yourself the winner in an empty room, go right ahead, but no one will see you and no one will thank you.

Here King, the Smartest and Dumbest person in the empty room. Have fun with that.

... the moment that you're no longer required to provide proof for the things you say you instantly become capable of ******** out entire paragraphs worth of insults. The total lack of self-awareness is absolutely hysterical.

 

[Udlmaster]

Cool, I don’t care. I’m not responding to you anymore, you are just proving to everyone your behaviour and how intolerable you are.

Stonewall the revisions, waste everyone’s time for a third time, let the profiles continue to be shit under your influence, I don’t care, I’m moving on to the RPG.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Welp.

If WoW pages will just forever be inaccurate there is a damn good chance we'll just have to delete them. Pages that everyone acknowledges are wrong but can't get fixed don't really have a place on the wiki.

Shall have to talk about that another time I s'pose. If someone has something they feel needs said here, feel free to contact me. Given the OP has thrown it away, I'm locking this for now.