Why is superhuman physical characteristics' requirements the way it is? Wouldn't it make the average joe's strongest attacks 9-C & superhuman?

[H3110l12345I20]

I'll nitpick on speed, striking strength, & durability. (SPC)

Speed has a bit of a minor detail, but I think either someone saw this page (Archived) or the references to where wikipedia got the information got changed. If you look in the maximum velocity section of pdf pg 8, you'll see that Bolt's max velocity is 12.34 m/s. Even calculating the record for his 100 meter sprint gives us 10.43841336 m/s from 100 m/9.58 s.

Striking Strength is a relies on my calculations & some reasonable assumptions. I've read this thread many times & have calculated the kinetic energy of a kick & stomp. Both calculations lead to a kinetic energy of more than 1000 Joules. There seems to be some acceptance on kicks being street level & stomps being able to crush skulls. Kicks can factor into street fights, although I don't know how much it is a factor. Stomps are more notable when your opponent falls onto the ground.

Durability is variable. I tried to get a concrete answer on how durable a human is & my consensus so far is that it depends on many factors & the attack itself (in short (terms), it's mixed). Bones, kicks & stomps themselves are considered street level & the human can handle their own street level attacks. Humans can tank their own punches despite a punch being able to one-shot a human in some weak spots. We have 150 Joules to the head being fatal while 300-500 Joules of kinetic energy from an explosion is likely to kill the human. The max fire heat tenability that the human can handle is 212 Fahrenheit, leading to a Wall level result. Pedestrians' durability low end (a car going at 30 km/h) is still Wall level. Surviving attacks from big animals is debatable, Cro-magnon's page says that it wrestled large animals.

& what about the average joe's statistics amplification? I only rated using 100% of a human's strength as street level at most due to the fact that overexertion can cause fractures, although it could/is likely lower.

I find it weird that the SPC page has a defacto application to the average human's strongest attacks/feats.

Evaluation/criticism of my own calculations would help/be fine since I want to know if I'm missing something in them. Although only here since they're used in my complaints/arguments.

 

[Flashlight237]

True. I mean one of the most common feats for a human is throwing a bowling ball, and those things already go into Human+-level territory, let alone Athlete and even Street level.: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Common_Feat:_Throwing_a_Bowling_Ball

 

[H3110l12345I20]

True. I mean one of the most common feats for a human is throwing a bowling ball, and those things already go into Human+-level territory, let alone Athlete and even Street level.: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Common_Feat:_Throwing_a_Bowling_Ball

Ok

 

[H3110l12345I20]

True. I mean one of the most common feats for a human is throwing a bowling ball, and those things already go into Human+-level territory, let alone Athlete and even Street level.: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Common_Feat:_Throwing_a_Bowling_Ball

I summoned some OGs to get their opinion on this topic. This may or may not be major.

 

[Armorchompy]

Our tiering system is a huge oversimplification of IRL physics so at lower levels (10-C to 9-C) there's a lot of unavoidable inaccuracies- we tier the punch of a normal human but just about anyone can reach 9-C with certain maneuvers that could be considered attacks and survive things that are technically 9-C. And that can't really be avoided unless we want to make pro athletes 10-B so we just kinda have to shrug off some issues like these.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Our tiering system is a huge oversimplification of IRL physics so at lower levels (10-C to 9-C) there's a lot of unavoidable inaccuracies- we tier the punch of a normal human but just about anyone can reach 9-C with certain maneuvers that could be considered attacks and survive things that are technically 9-C. And that can't really be avoided unless we want to make pro athletes 10-B so we just kinda have to shrug off some issues like these.

It appears that I've summoned a god
I guess that makes sense. Should I at least discuss potential changes to the SPC page in a content revision thread?

 

[Armorchompy]

It appears that I've summoned a god

I'd say god is green and above, I'd say demigod. I am very humble.

I guess that makes sense. Should I at least discuss potential changes to the SPC page in a content revision thread?

What changes, exactly?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

What changes, exactly?

I was about to type that down. I did say this in the description of the post, but I'll repeat my points:

Where did the faster than 12.42 m/s come from? If it came from the wikipedia page that I mentioned, I haven't found the 12.42 m/s in the sources. I did find that Bolt's max velocity is 12.34 m/s on pdf pg 8. If anyone can find where wikipedians got the 12.42 m/s or 100 m/8.051529791 s from, it would satisfy me.

SPC's definition includes significantly, which is debatable. It does say, "what is theoretically feasible for a regular person." It does include parameters that would be the limit of a peak human in real life. I did say the average human's strongest attacks are low ball 9-C. The strongest that I can think of are bites, leg related attacks & peak/athletic human strength from hysterical strength.

I think 9-C+ would be more appropriate for Striking strength since I did scale bone's durability to hysterical strength human. An at least 9-C+ rating is often rather too high for anyone to reach physically & is where the highest peak human calculations are at.

Durability is debatable. In my research on what humans can do in general from a Vs Battles point of view, it varies on the attack & many factors. We can tank punches, leg attacks, falls, would make humans 9-C to 9-C+ in durability. As I said:
"We have 150 Joules to the head being fatal while 300-500 Joules of kinetic energy from an explosion is likely to kill the human. The max fire heat tenability that the human can handle is 212 Fahrenheit, leading to a Wall level result. Pedestrians' durability low end (a car going at 30 km/h) is still Wall level. Surviving attacks from big animals is debatable, Cro-magnon's page says that it wrestled large animals."
This gives us a potential durability of 10-B to 9-B. I'm pretty much split on durability, but I'll low ball & give the border a 9-C+.

You did say that there's some inconsistencies in the tiering system, so I don't mind the Striking Strength & Durability being unchanged. I'm slightly bothered by the speed though. We also have the fastest punches & kicks.

 

[Armorchompy]

You did say that there's some inconsistencies in the tiering system, so I don't mind the Striking Strength & Durability being unchanged.

Yeah, I think they should stay as is. Like, don't get me wrong, just about anything you said is completely correct. But accounting for it would be a nightmare and would make most humans be superior to just about any handgun, for example.

I'm slightly bothered by the speed though.

Definitely should be fixed

We also have the fastest punches & kicks.

We actually do give pro fighters "Superhuman attack speed" for being able to attack that fast. Example

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Yeah, I think they should stay as is. Like, don't get me wrong, just about anything you said is completely correct. But accounting for it would be a nightmare and would make most humans be superior to just about any handgun, for example.

A part of me disagrees, but then...
I'm the same person that made hysterical strength human Peak Human, & even the weakest bullets can fracture bones. The SPC page did say "what is theoretically feasible for a regular person."
"
Fight-or-Flight/Hysterical Strength

All powers & abilities from base human, Peak Human Physical Strength & Durability (Humans have shown feats of Hysterical Strength constantly in stressful situations [89])
"
There are many reasons why I didn't rank base human superhuman/peak human. Anyone can do leg/bite based attacks. I wanted to make a genuine profile like, not a (IRL) wank or defacto application. I decided to give the average human the realistic treatment, but ended up with mixed/inconclusive stats/abilities. The reason why I ranked hysterical strength human peak human was because of it's enhanced strength, time perception & energy compared to a regular human.

I guess 1000 J+ 9-C is staying. Although speaking of not making base human superhuman/peak human simultaneously, is the overlapping between peak & superhuman enough to make something/a character both of them? Are there profiles with all peak human physical characteristics that fulfill both profile's requirements & thus has both peak & superhuman physical characteristics listed?

We actually do give pro fighters "Superhuman attack speed" for being able to attack that fast. Example

Hmmm... what about a human's punch being 15 mph on average or a kicc being 60 mph?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

But accounting for it would be a nightmare and would make most humans be superior to just about any handgun, for example.

Can you elaborate how a 9-C hysterical strength human be superior to a handgun when hand guns can fracture/pierce bone with the requested changes? I did say that durability for humans is variable & depends on many factors.

 

[KLOL506]

Can you elaborate how a 9-C hysterical strength human be superior to a handgun when hand guns can fracture/pierce bone with the requested changes? I did say that durability for humans is variable & depends on many factors.

Bullets doing this is piercing damage. We already determined it to be impossible to account for piercing damage given how it inflates results demonstrably.

 

[KLOL506]

"We have 150 Joules to the head being fatal while 300-500 Joules of kinetic energy from an explosion is likely to kill the human.

Something something explosive shockwave ruins man's internal organs.

The max fire heat tenability that the human can handle is 212 Fahrenheit, leading to a Wall level result.

Plain heat alone isn't enough to scale to blunt-force durability, especially in real life.

Pedestrians' durability low end (a car going at 30 km/h) is still Wall level.

You have to account that the person is not getting hit with the full energy, often times they will be sent flying into the air. We have a formula for this:

Final Speed= (MassCar*InitialSpeed)/(MassPerson+MassCar)

Then, FinalKE= 0.5 * MassPerson * FinalSpeed^2

Of course, this changes completely if the person is being rammed into a sturdy wall like in a crash test.

Surviving attacks from big animals is debatable, Cro-magnon's page says that it wrestled large animals."

We already had a big CRT downgrading some of the animals.

 

[KLOL506]

There seems to be some acceptance on kicks being street level & stomps being able to crush skulls.

No, we don't. Even a full-power punch from an MMA fighter isn't enough to do it. Those skulls are just as durable as the real life thing.

Best you can do is dent it in with a kneecap, but shattering the thing completely without assistance from a sledgehammer? Huge no.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

No, we don't. Even a full-power punch from an MMA fighter isn't enough to do it. Those skulls are just as durable as the real life thing.

Best you can do is dent it in with a kneecap, but shattering the thing completely without assistance from a sledgehammer? Huge no.

Something something explosive shockwave ruins man's internal organs.


Plain heat alone isn't enough to scale to blunt-force durability, especially in real life.


You have to account that the person is not getting hit with the full energy, often times they will be sent flying into the air. We have a formula for this:

Final Speed= (MassCar*InitialSpeed)/(MassPerson+MassCar)

Then, FinalKE= 0.5 * MassPerson * FinalSpeed^2

Of course, this changes completely if the person is being rammed into a sturdy wall like in a crash test.


We already had a big CRT downgrading some of the animals.

You just unofficially downgraded base human's durability to Street level more concretely.

Cool, you criticised me. I didn't think you'd respond. So how did the wiki get the car formulas? I know the original kinetic energy formula but not the final speed formula. I recalculated the results based on your assumptions & I got 2.015919751 KJ (Street level) for a car going at 30 kph & 14.33542934 KJ (Streel level+) for a car going at 80 kph. I would like to link some reliable sources to see & show how it's ok.

Also, where's the CRT downgrading some of the animals?

PS: How are real world animals' stats determined in comparison to how the wiki treats fiction? Also, how come the mosquito & rat get disease manipulation while other animals don't? You would consider the dirtiness of the nails & mouth as a result of the diseases & not the person itself?

 

[KLOL506]

You just unofficially downgraded base human's durability to Street level more concretely.

They were always Street level to Street level+ LMFAO

Cool, you criticised me. I didn't think you'd respond. So how did the wiki get the car formulas? I know the original kinetic energy formula but not the final speed formula. I recalculated the results based on your assumptions & I got 2.015919751 KJ (Street level) for a car going at 30 kph & 14.33542934 KJ (Streel level+) for a car going at 80 kph. I would like to link some reliable sources to see & show how it's ok.

It was Kaltias's idea. Something to do with momentum. Our References for Common Feats page accounted for it like this:

"When being hit by a car, the linear momentum of the car+person system needs to remain the same. Linear momentum is m*v"

Of course, this is assuming you don't get rammed into a super strong wall like in a crash test lab. If that is the case tho, KE of the car applies in full, though I seriously doubt anyone would actually be stupid enough to try that stunt.

Also please do not jump in front of a moving vehicle like this for calculations, it will most definitely kill you.

Also, where's the CRT downgrading some of the animals?

I think it was this one but a couple more followed as well, I don't remember the links to those.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

They were always Street level to Street level+ LMFAO


It was Kaltias's idea. Something to do with momentum. Our References for Common Feats page accounted for it like this:

"When being hit by a car, the linear momentum of the car+person system needs to remain the same. Linear momentum is m*v"

Of course, this is assuming you don't get rammed into a super strong wall like in a crash test lab. If that is the case tho, KE of the car applies in full, though I seriously doubt anyone would actually be stupid enough to try that stunt.

Also please do not jump in front of a moving vehicle like this for calculations, it will most definitely kill you.


I think it was this one but a couple more followed as well, I don't remember the links to those.

I edited this into my last reply:

PS: How are real world animals' stats determined in comparison to how the wiki treats fiction? Also, how come the mosquito & rat get disease manipulation while other animals don't? You would consider the dirtiness of the nails & mouth as a result of the diseases & not the person itself?

 

[KLOL506]

I edited this into my last reply:

PS: How are real world animals' stats determined in comparison to how the wiki treats fiction? Also, how come the mosquito & rat get disease manipulation while other animals don't? You would consider the dirtiness of the nails & mouth as a result of the diseases & not the person itself?

I think those were going to be eventually rectified but @Armorchompy can explain better. The insect stuff isn't my area of expertise.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

They were always Street level to Street level+ LMFAO


It was Kaltias's idea. Something to do with momentum. Our References for Common Feats page accounted for it like this:

"When being hit by a car, the linear momentum of the car+person system needs to remain the same. Linear momentum is m*v"

Of course, this is assuming you don't get rammed into a super strong wall like in a crash test lab. If that is the case tho, KE of the car applies in full, though I seriously doubt anyone would actually be stupid enough to try that stunt.

Also please do not jump in front of a moving vehicle like this for calculations, it will most definitely kill you.


I think it was this one but a couple more followed as well, I don't remember the links to those.

& I don't want to derail too hard, a base human with street level attack potency & durability still fits into SPC's standards in a strange way.

 

[KLOL506]

& I don't want to derail too hard, a base human with street level attack potency & durability still fits into SPC's standards in a strange way.

Honestly if you ask me, SPC should be plainly left for 9-B tier stuff. Or for those specific strength outliers.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Honestly if you ask me, SPC should be plainly left for 9-B tier stuff. Or for those specific strength outliers.

I was thinking more of:

Speed: 12.34 m/s (look at the original description of this thread)
Lifting Strength: says the same, I mean people usually deadlift, not backlift
Striking Strength: At least Street level+
Durability: At least Street level+

A normal human's leg attacks typically reach below 9-C+, & it's a very unrealistic high ball for hysterical strength human. Peak human's max joule attacks resides on the low end of 9-C+ & below 10000 or 9000 Joules.

I wonder if this should be talked about in a content revision thread?

On the side note: are physical blows/attacks the determiners for tiers in the real world profiles?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Honestly if you ask me, SPC should be plainly left for 9-B tier stuff. Or for those specific strength outliers.

I can't imagine this turning into a peak human.

 

[KLOL506]

I was thinking more of:

Speed: 12.34 m/s (look at the original description of this thread)
Lifting Strength: says the same, I mean people usually deadlift, not backlift
Striking Strength: At least Street level+
Durability: At least Street level+

A normal human's leg attacks typically reach below 9-C+, & it's a very unrealistic high ball for hysterical strength human. Peak human's max joule attacks resides on the low end of 9-C+ & below 10000 or 9000 Joules.

Best humans can pull off is 7.3-7.6 kJ with a full speed tackle in rugby/American football-esque sports.

I wonder if this should be talked about in a content revision thread?

I believe it was done years ago when Composite Human was undergoing downgrades, but at this point it's useless since we don't have Composite Human on VSB anymore.

On the side note: are physical blows/attacks the determiners for tiers in the real world profiles?

Physical blows, attacks and tackles. For IRL profiles they're separate, not so much in fiction tho.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I believe it was done years ago when Composite Human was undergoing downgrades, but at this point it's useless since we don't have Composite Human on VSB anymore.

I mean, I just noticed this weird thing where the average joe's strongest attacks are 9-C & 9-C ST or Dura is in SPC's requirements. At this point, it should lean more on a SPC change focus.

Physical blows, attacks and tackles. For IRL profiles they're separate, not so much in fiction tho.

I'm pretty sure there's going to be dissent on composite human going 40 mph & dying despite the bone density. Hahaha...

 

[KLOL506]

I'm pretty sure there's going to be dissent on composite human going 40 mph & dying despite the bone density. Hahaha...

Nah, even back then 40 mph was not accepted.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Best humans can pull off is 7.3-7.6 kJ with a full speed tackle in rugby/American football-esque sports.

You point is that SPC with Street level+ (as a standard) isn't too appropriate? In those types of sports, the players are fairly active.

 

[KLOL506]

You point is that SPC with Street level+ (as a standard) isn't too appropriate? In those types of sports, the players are fairly active.

Honestly, I don't even know anymore, been so long since I last tackled humanity's best feats physically. Feats like these are kinda shotgunned far and wide.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Honestly, I don't even know anymore, been so long since I last tackled humanity's best feats physically. Feats like these are kinda shotgunned far and wide.

Sooo...Street level+? or Wall level?
We draw the borders in SPC based on strongest average joe feats, or strongest/peak human feats?

 

[H3110l12345I20]

I believe it was done years ago when Composite Human was undergoing downgrades, but at this point it's useless since we don't have Composite Human on VSB anymore.

So how did Composite Human get kicked out?

 

[KLOL506]

So how did Composite Human get kicked out?

Combining all the best aspects of humans into one. Same reason why the other composite profiles got kicked out. Composite Link was the one that really started this trend.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Honestly, I don't even know anymore, been so long since I last tackled humanity's best feats physically. Feats like these are kinda shotgunned far and wide.

...

Combining all the best aspects of humans into one. Same reason why the other composite profiles got kicked out. Composite Link was the one that really started this trend.

So... you're indecisive on whether SPC's Dura & ST should be upgraded to Street level/class+ or Wall level/class. I think I'll follow this up in under the next 7 days in a content revision thread eventually on SPC.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Composite Link

What or who's a composite link?

 

[KLOL506]

What or who's a composite link?

NEVER GO THERE. UNDERSTAND?

It's just an illusion. Don't let it torture your already-tormented soul.

So... you're indecisive on whether SPC's Dura & ST should be upgraded to Street level/class+ or Wall level/class. I think I'll follow this up in under the next 7 days in a content revision thread eventually on SPC.

Yeah, I'm indecisive on the matter that I more or less don't even remember the talks on this when we were arguing what feats to add to Composite Human.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

NEVER GO THERE. UNDERSTAND?

It's just an illusion. Don't let it torture your already-tormented soul.

Hmmm... judging by your urgency, I'll not look into it further. You're not upset about the loss of the composite profiles? Are you?

Hahahaha...

Besides, if you're referring to a specific blog post of Composite Link that I've barely scratched the surface of reading, ok. Seriously, I won't.

 

[KLOL506]

Hmmm... judging by your urgency, I'll not look into it further. You're not upset about the loss of the composite profiles? Are you?

Not one bit.

Hahahaha...

Besides, if you're referring to a specific blog post of Composite Link that I've barely scratched the surface of reading, ok. Seriously, I won't.

No, he was a profile back when Zeldaverse was still 3-A without the Triforce.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Yeah, I'm indecisive on the matter that I more or less don't even remember the talks on this when we were arguing what feats to add to Composite Human.

At the beginning of the future thread, do I have to show that the average joe's high end attacks are "theoretically" 9-C?

 

[KLOL506]

At the beginning of the future thread, do I have to show that the average joe's high end attacks are "theoretically" 9-C?

Maybe not, it's something we've known for years now.

 

[H3110l12345I20]

Maybe not, it's something we've known for years now.

Wait, Wut?

Anyways, there's not much to talk about at this point, thanks for the extra dopamine acid trip! I'll be adding on an extra note on my blog post about your warning (ehehhhehee...) & updating the page on the average human (base, hysterical strength & prehistoric hunter gatherer) in accordance to these suggestions & ideas in this thread. This thread at this point will be archived with or without your response to this post on the WABAC Machine, Archive.vn & Ghostarchive.org (yes it exists, you can upload a limited amount of MB of vids/stuff at a time. I discovered it here (Archived) during a school assignment on the Nutcracker play)

 

[Armorchompy]

I think those were going to be eventually rectified but @Armorchompy can explain better. The insect stuff isn't my area of expertise.

Our animal pages are utter dogshit, a lot of them use KE to inflate an animal's strength while their actual attacks would be nowhere near a tackle in AP. The best way to handle them is to just kind of eyeball how strong they would be based on their mass + "feats" if any are recorded

 

[Armorchompy]

P&A is also utter dogshit, just about any fish is missing enhanced senses because of their lateral lines