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Weiss vs Garou (Two white haired teens fight one another)
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
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Weiss >>(oneshot) Centinels = 29.12 Kilotons
I don't know how high Garou's scaling chain goes but I believe he is far above 65.12 Kilotons.
I don't know how high Garou's scaling chain goes but I believe he is far above 65.12 Kilotons.
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Does Weiss mainly fight physically? I see she has abilities like vector manip, limited time, gravity, etc.
If she (and her summons) DO fight physically then I'm inclined to think Garou might take it via AP advantage, pressure points and WSRSF being able to reflect attacks.
If she (and her summons) DO fight physically then I'm inclined to think Garou might take it via AP advantage, pressure points and WSRSF being able to reflect attacks.
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I don't see Weiss being immune to Fear Manipulation, so Garou has the advantage of initiating the first strike. While Weiss is affected by Garou's Fear Inducement, he may lose control over himself, causing him to freeze in fear or launch a reckless attack at Garou. However, Garou's exceptional combat skills enable him to anticipate and counter such an attack through Analytical Prediction and Attack Reflection. Subsequently, Garou can exploit this opportunity to strike Weiss using his mastery of Pressure Point techniques and his formidable Attack Power (AP).
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To what extent? AFAIK Garou has absolutely no problem dealing with opponents faster than him via Analytical Prediction.
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His scaling chain is absolutely massive bro. Like I genuinely don't even know how to write it down.
I believe it is something like...
Pri-Pri-Prisoner < Deep Sea King < Genos with Arms Mode < Deep Sea King with rain < Genos (Post-Aliens) < Genos (Post-G4) < Genos (Post-Superfight) = Human Garou while weakened, poisoned, and fatigued.
There are multiple one-shot and stomp gaps within this scaling chain.
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For what reason? You can still use Garou. Weiss seems to have a few good abilities to help out with the clear AP gap.
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The gap between Garou and Weiss is only a little over 2 times, scaling chains by themselves don't work good enough to make it a oneshot. However if combined with Garou's RE he might just one after sometime though.
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It most definitely should. Weiss scales a one-shot above her value, Garou scales >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his value. Not only are the values 2x apart, but he scales far far far far above his, when compared to hers.
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Nope scaling no matter how large cannot give a 2 time ap increase and the required ap to one shot is 5 times.
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First of all, the required AP difference to one-shot is 7.5x.
Second of all, that's an arbitrary number and that is always acknowledged. It doesn't come from anywhere, it more just says "yeah around here is when things start getting one-shot-y". Some verses have one-shot gaps at like... 2x, i.e Dragon Ball I believe. It's never consistent, hence why that value is picked out of thin air.
As for the 2x difference, I was saying that as 65.12 (the value Garou scales far above) divided by 29.12 (the value Weiss scales above) = 2.23x.
Scaling matters, and saying it doesn't is flat-out wrong.
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If it makes a difference, weiss has like five or six ways of immobilizing Garou as well as a handful of durability negating abilities
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If Garou scales multiple one-shot gaps over a calculation that is already double Weiss, he would one-shot her.
Example:
Character A scales to a value of 10 Tons.
And Character B has one-shot someone who scales to a value of 10 Tons.
Why would we not assume Character B can also one-shot Character A, for example?
Scaling chains do in fact matter in matchups for this reason and many others. We even use scaling chains for tiering sometimes.
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Name them and how they are precisely utilized. This matters.
Recon1511
He/Him- 6,701
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Use Iaian he is based
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*She can use a Gravity Dust Glyph to turn the area around him into an anti-graft field where he is stuck floating in midair unable to go anywhere
*She can use homing projectile Hard Light to create Hard Light Glyphs which restrain whatever part of his body they touch in midair, preventing him from moving or defending himself
*She can pull moisture from the atmosphere to encase him in a giant ball of ice
*She can fire either a single large beam of multiple scattered beams of raw Hard Light Dust that encase him in a block of ice on contact
*She can create an Ice Dust Glyph at his feet to prevent him from moving by encasing him in a block of ice
*She can create an Ice Dust Glyph directly on him which freezes him from the inside out to the point that a single attack will cause him to shatter
*She can imbue her sword with Ice Dust, causing him to be encased in a block of ice if he comes in contact with her sword
*She can release a scattered field of Ice Dust around herself which encases anything around her in a block of ice on contact
Aside from the teo that use hard light dust and the last one, all of the abilities listed have no projectile involved and are done solely by her gesturing at him
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Lifting Strength would only really help him against the hard light restraints, he cant exactly lift his way out of floating around in an anti gravity field or being frozen from the inside out. Even the ice encasement would leave him open for a few seconds, more than enough time for Weiss to deal some serious damage
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@WeeklyBattles Gravity stuff can be overpowered with superior LS. This wouldn’t help much against Garou.
@Phoenks Weiss’ in character starting move is to use her glyphs and a lot of ice dust moves, which revolves around projectiles and making barriers. The other stuff she’d use later down the line.
@Phoenks Weiss’ in character starting move is to use her glyphs and a lot of ice dust moves, which revolves around projectiles and making barriers. The other stuff she’d use later down the line.
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I mean, in the case with the anti-gravity field not really? Like you could argue that he grabs the ground to anchor himself but now he is stuck in one place with much less ability to defend himself without letting go of the ground.
And Weiss' glyphs don't use projectiles
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Which isn’t something that lasts forever plus Garou isn’t an idiot so he’d know how to deal with suddenly floating.
The glyphs aren’t what I said was projectiles, I said the ice dust she uses are, which she uses a lot.
The glyphs aren’t what I said was projectiles, I said the ice dust she uses are, which she uses a lot.
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Why everyone from RWBY as such an ass design
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It lasts until she deactivates it, and you're gonna have to be a bit more specific than 'he knows hot do deal with it' if you wouldnt mind.
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Scans of it lasting as long as she likes? As well as her using this in character right off the bat over her normal sword play and ice dust?
Literally just latch onto the ground, lunge right at her to stop her from using the gravity semblance, anything a skilled fighter would do in these situations.
Literally just latch onto the ground, lunge right at her to stop her from using the gravity semblance, anything a skilled fighter would do in these situations.
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The fight against Team ABRN, where she had it active while also using other abilities on top of it such as the ice ball trap I mentioned above. And I'm not sure what you mean by saying that's her normal fighting style, Weiss uses all of her elements, glyphs, and her swordplay interchangeably, she doesnt usually focus on one or the other heavily and never has.
The second he let's go to try to lunge at her he would just be pulled into the air, and how would he know beforehand to prevent her from using her gravity? He doesnt have any prior knowledge of her abilities so he would have no idea that's something she can just do.
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You mean the fight where she uses it at the end of the fight, and was only useful as a ring out? Something that's not going to stop Garou due to the massive AP difference he has against Weiss? This doesn't stop the AP advantage and just being overwhelmed by Garou's superior combat experience.
Yeah, being pulled in the air doesn't mean he's gonna be helpless and Weiss is gonna combo him to death, at best this would get a couple of notable hits in but he'll figure out how to counter act this, especially with his adaptation and superior LS advantage so Weiss is screwed when he gets those blows in which will happen a lot.
Voting for Garou, his advantages outweights whatever Weiss can do to finish him off.
Yeah, being pulled in the air doesn't mean he's gonna be helpless and Weiss is gonna combo him to death, at best this would get a couple of notable hits in but he'll figure out how to counter act this, especially with his adaptation and superior LS advantage so Weiss is screwed when he gets those blows in which will happen a lot.
Voting for Garou, his advantages outweights whatever Weiss can do to finish him off.
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The fight where they were actively trying to not kill each other yes, i dont see how that would make it work differently in a fight to the death. And AP doesnt help him not float. If he tries to get in close Weiss just uses one of the close range moves i listed and freezes him.
Also would like to point out that Garou doesnt have superior combat experience, Weiss does. Weiss started training in combat when she was a child, by her own words the second she was able to pick up a weapon as a child she started training, whereas Garou only started training in his early teens, coupled with Weiss being a year older than him, she has almost a decade more combat experience than he does.
It literally does, he doesnt have flight so he will be stuck floating in midair for Weiss to just unload on him. Adaptation and Lifting Strength arent going to help him not be stuck in midair. And if he does manage to get close Weiss can freeze him as stated previously, or make a hard light forcefield to protect herself, or make a repulsion glyph to send him flying, or amp her speed to the point of blitzing him with a time dilation glyph.
My guy, other than vague AP scaling you havent explained any advantages Garou has lmao
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Just going to say the experience thing doesn't even matter at all. And Garou isn't really an experience guy. He's a skill guy who has beaten people with much more experience than himself and grows at rapid pace that experience alone won't really replicate.
But uh, Garou does seem to be pretty ****** if she uses any of that stuff in character. A gap of hundreds of meters at the start, and he is facing a long ranged magic user? Err, I don't know?
He doesn't really have an answer to anti gravity or instant ice shit. Well, actually! I guess he could break out of the ice. He has superior LS and AP which should allow him to do that.
But uh, Garou does seem to be pretty ****** if she uses any of that stuff in character. A gap of hundreds of meters at the start, and he is facing a long ranged magic user? Err, I don't know?
He doesn't really have an answer to anti gravity or instant ice shit. Well, actually! I guess he could break out of the ice. He has superior LS and AP which should allow him to do that.
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Oh i know, i just mentioned it because Glass brought it up lol
Though should mention that Weiss is extremely skilled in her own right
She does use that in character yeah
He can break out of the ice yes, though it would still leave him open for a few seconds and the internal freezing would still kill him
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I would say based on a simple anaylsis that Garou probably takes it more often than not. As mentioned by another person, Garou scales above wiess in terms of power, having 65.12 Kiloton AP compared to Weiss's 29 Kilotons, and this is at BARE MINIMUM because of factors ill go into later. Weiss Aura does help somewhat by functioning as an extra health bar, and with items Weiss can keep her Aura up for longer, but it can and will eventually run out given the length of the fight.
Of course this requires Garou to actually fight Weiss first, so with AP aside lets get into Abilities and Hax.
I will not lie, Weiss definetely brings a lot to this fight against Garou. Her Semblance, access to various Dust types and and summons give her a lot of hax like abilties that would keep Garou on his toes. More importantly however, these same abilities give her a lot more range to work with than Garou, so she could reliably use these abilities to give her a win.
To name a few wincons she has.
That being said, the GREATEST ability Garou has that can and will nab him the win, is simply his Reactive Evolution. Even before Garou started to transform, Garou was capable of increasing his strength, speed and power in fights that lasted at most minutes, to the point where he was capable of outperforming Heroes that previously were dominating him in his fights. Sure, there is the possibly that Weiss would could kill/defeat him before that point, but Garou has incredible pain tolerance, being able to stay standing despite taking massive injuries, and can even recover from near-death with sheer rage (not that I mean regenerating, but more so he can revitalize himself despite being injured).
The point is, that even with the AP gap not being too big and even with speed being equalized, Garou's ability to increase his power mid fight means that he would just get more stronger and faster the longer he fights Weiss, potentially to the point of increasing his AP enough to One-Shot her.
I think Garou just takes this, though not to the point of it being an outright stomp. His better physical capabilities and martial arts skills, along with his anaylytical thinking and ability to identify weakpoints, along with his superior AP and ability to increase his power mid-combat, means that not only can he get past Weiss and her better combat range and summons, but also be more skilled enough to take down the huntress.
Of course this requires Garou to actually fight Weiss first, so with AP aside lets get into Abilities and Hax.
I will not lie, Weiss definetely brings a lot to this fight against Garou. Her Semblance, access to various Dust types and and summons give her a lot of hax like abilties that would keep Garou on his toes. More importantly however, these same abilities give her a lot more range to work with than Garou, so she could reliably use these abilities to give her a win.
To name a few wincons she has.
- She could potentially speed herself up with time dilation to get the killing blow.
- She could flash freeze him with Ice Dust.
- She could Spam her Summons, which are stronger than Weiss herself and so technically function as Ranged Amps.
That being said, the GREATEST ability Garou has that can and will nab him the win, is simply his Reactive Evolution. Even before Garou started to transform, Garou was capable of increasing his strength, speed and power in fights that lasted at most minutes, to the point where he was capable of outperforming Heroes that previously were dominating him in his fights. Sure, there is the possibly that Weiss would could kill/defeat him before that point, but Garou has incredible pain tolerance, being able to stay standing despite taking massive injuries, and can even recover from near-death with sheer rage (not that I mean regenerating, but more so he can revitalize himself despite being injured).
The point is, that even with the AP gap not being too big and even with speed being equalized, Garou's ability to increase his power mid fight means that he would just get more stronger and faster the longer he fights Weiss, potentially to the point of increasing his AP enough to One-Shot her.
I think Garou just takes this, though not to the point of it being an outright stomp. His better physical capabilities and martial arts skills, along with his anaylytical thinking and ability to identify weakpoints, along with his superior AP and ability to increase his power mid-combat, means that not only can he get past Weiss and her better combat range and summons, but also be more skilled enough to take down the huntress.
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You are significantly underestimating Weiss in this regard. Weiss even in her earlier keys was capable of matching the best martial artists in the world, who themselves have feats comparable to Garou's, and Weiss' acrobtics is not fueled by her semblance, its just something she can do naturally. Also, pressure points wont work as long as Weiss' aura is up.
I mean, even if he gets past both of those Weiss still has multiple ways to freeze him in CQC, but thats a big IF as Weiss' glyphs dont have any tells, theres no projectiles to look out for, they just appear.
I mean, pain tolerance is great and all but its not going to save him from having his body frozen inside and out and then shattered.
I can post the RWBY skill scaling chain if you'd like, but friendly reminder that people near Weiss' level have been agreed to be above Garou in terms of skill in threads here before. Garou's CQC skill alone is not enough to win him this fight, and Weiss uses everything in her arsenal at close range as well as long range, just because Garou can get close to her doesnt mean she just stops being able to use those abilities.
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