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Vs battles wiki pet peeves

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CrackerVolley said:
Sounds interesting. Could you elaborate?
Click to expand...
Touhou's canon is mostly centered around "whatever ZUN writes", as he is the sole owner of the series and writes the vast majority of content for it. The issue comes in the form of secondary works; Touhou is a doujin series, so it is extremely lax on what people are allowed to create and sell based on Touhou. However, in order to be sold on storefronts like the app store, Nintendo E-Shop, Steam, or so on, a fanmade Touhou game has to be officially licensed first. This means there are hundreds of games we could technically consider tertiary canon, due to our rules on officially licensed works, but don't because it's a byproduct of Touhou's nature as a doujin series and is not the creator treating those works as semi-canon. So we're already kinda skirting by this site's tertiary canon rules, which is a bit confusing in and of itself (I recall at least a few people off-site saying Lost Word, a secondary work, should be usable on here, for example).

However, this is also not accounting for secondary works wherein ZUN contributes his own work; We currently allow things like Seasonal Dream Vision, which is a secondary work including a short manga written by ZUN. We're allowed to use the manga itself, but nothing outside of that. We could presumably use ZUN's contributions to other manga and games as well, should I find any more. This isn't that complicated by itself, but recently a Touhou TTRPG was announced, where ZUN will write various flavor text as well as a gameplay demonstration. This sort of messes with what we typically use for canon, because there's no clear line between what ZUN writes (a demonstration of the gameplay mechanics alongside a story scenario) and what he doesn't (the gameplay mechanics and story scenario themselves); The former cannot be used in a vacuum, because it's inherently using the latter as a part of itself. This is even further confused by how people close to ZUN aren't even sure if the work is actually a secondary work or not specifically because of ZUN's involvement. I'm currently leaning towards treating the entire thing as secondary canon, with the caveat that possible future supplements wouldn't be canon at all (unless ZUN contributes to those too).

I don't think anything on the canon page helps clarify what to do when something that's technically technically tertiary canon from a series that doesn't treat tertiary canon as canon but is also maybe not tertiary canon at all(???) and has direct involvement from the author, whose words, regardless of context, are treated as primary canon.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Touhou's canon is mostly centered around "whatever ZUN writes", as he is the sole owner of the series and writes the vast majority of content for it. The issue comes in the form of secondary works; Touhou is a doujin series, so it is extremely lax on what people are allowed to create and sell based on Touhou. However, in order to be sold on storefronts like the app store, Nintendo E-Shop, Steam, or so on, a fanmade Touhou game has to be officially licensed first. This means there are hundreds of games we could technically consider tertiary canon, due to our rules on officially licensed works, but don't because it's a byproduct of Touhou's nature as a doujin series and is not the creator treating those works as semi-canon. So we're already kinda skirting by this site's tertiary canon rules, which is a bit confusing in and of itself (I recall at least a few people off-site saying Lost Word, a secondary work, should be usable on here, for example).

However, this is also not accounting for secondary works wherein ZUN contributes his own work; We currently allow things like Seasonal Dream Vision, which is a secondary work including a short manga written by ZUN. We're allowed to use the manga itself, but nothing outside of that. We could presumably use ZUN's contributions to other manga and games as well, should I find any more. This isn't that complicated by itself, but recently a Touhou TTRPG was announced, where ZUN will write various flavor text as well as a gameplay demonstration. This sort of messes with what we typically use for canon, because there's no clear line between what ZUN writes (a demonstration of the gameplay mechanics alongside a story scenario) and what he doesn't (the gameplay mechanics and story scenario themselves); The former cannot be used in a vacuum, because it's inherently using the latter as a part of itself. This is even further confused by how people close to ZUN aren't even sure if the work is actually a secondary work or not specifically because of ZUN's involvement. I'm currently leaning towards treating the entire thing as secondary canon, with the caveat that possible future supplements wouldn't be canon at all (unless ZUN contributes to those too).

I don't think anything on the canon page helps clarify what to do when something that's technically technically tertiary canon from a series that doesn't treat tertiary canon as canon but is also maybe not tertiary canon at all(???) and has direct involvement from the author, whose words, regardless of context, are treated as primary canon.
Click to expand...
 
It's a situation like some of the JoJo side media that had some approval from Araki, but diverges to an extent where it's non-canon but not enough where you could just form a completely different canon, placing it in a boring no-man's-land where you can't use it well for versus debating.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Touhou's canon is mostly centered around "whatever ZUN writes", as he is the sole owner of the series and writes the vast majority of content for it. The issue comes in the form of secondary works; Touhou is a doujin series, so it is extremely lax on what people are allowed to create and sell based on Touhou. However, in order to be sold on storefronts like the app store, Nintendo E-Shop, Steam, or so on, a fanmade Touhou game has to be officially licensed first. This means there are hundreds of games we could technically consider tertiary canon, due to our rules on officially licensed works, but don't because it's a byproduct of Touhou's nature as a doujin series and is not the creator treating those works as semi-canon. So we're already kinda skirting by this site's tertiary canon rules, which is a bit confusing in and of itself (I recall at least a few people off-site saying Lost Word, a secondary work, should be usable on here, for example).

However, this is also not accounting for secondary works wherein ZUN contributes his own work; We currently allow things like Seasonal Dream Vision, which is a secondary work including a short manga written by ZUN. We're allowed to use the manga itself, but nothing outside of that. We could presumably use ZUN's contributions to other manga and games as well, should I find any more. This isn't that complicated by itself, but recently a Touhou TTRPG was announced, where ZUN will write various flavor text as well as a gameplay demonstration. This sort of messes with what we typically use for canon, because there's no clear line between what ZUN writes (a demonstration of the gameplay mechanics alongside a story scenario) and what he doesn't (the gameplay mechanics and story scenario themselves); The former cannot be used in a vacuum, because it's inherently using the latter as a part of itself. This is even further confused by how people close to ZUN aren't even sure if the work is actually a secondary work or not specifically because of ZUN's involvement. I'm currently leaning towards treating the entire thing as secondary canon, with the caveat that possible future supplements wouldn't be canon at all (unless ZUN contributes to those too).

I don't think anything on the canon page helps clarify what to do when something that's technically technically tertiary canon from a series that doesn't treat tertiary canon as canon but is also maybe not tertiary canon at all(???) and has direct involvement from the author, whose words, regardless of context, are treated as primary canon.
Click to expand...
Just don't include Lost Word, boom easy peasy.
 
CrackerVolley said:
It's a situation like some of the JoJo side media that had some approval from Araki, but diverges to an extent where it's non-canon but not enough where you could just form a completely different canon, placing it in a boring no-man's-land where you can't use it well for versus debating.
Click to expand...
Not even that, since ZUN's writing part of the TTRPG.

Shmooply said:
Just don't include Lost Word, boom easy peasy.
Click to expand...
this wasn't about Lost Word but alright
CrackerVolley said:
Are the fighting games like Immaterial canon to Touhou?
Click to expand...
Yeah.
 
Yeah I think it's for the best that that ongoing drama to not be discussed until it's resolved.

I will say though that what's happening there is something that can affect the forum as a whole, even if people don't discuss it right now. People know about it, they may talk about it elsewhere offsite, and whatever happens in that drama can be the template for how users will conduct themselves in the future.
 
KingNanaya said:
I have no clue what you're talking about lil bro
Click to expand...
Copypasta from Better Call Saul
I am not crazy! I know he swapped those numbers. I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just – I just couldn’t prove it. He covered his tracks, he got that idiot at the copy shop to lie for him. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? He’s done worse. That billboard! Are you telling me that a man just happens to fall like that? No! He orchestrated it! Jimmy! He defecated through a sunroof! And I saved him! And I shouldn’t have. I took him into my own firm! What was I thinking? He’ll never change. He’ll never change! Ever since he was 9, always the same! Couldn’t keep his hands out of the cash drawer! But not our Jimmy! Couldn’t be precious Jimmy! Stealing them blind! And HE gets to be a lawyer? What a sick joke! I should’ve stopped him when I had the chance! …And you, you have to stop him! You
 
KingNanaya said:
what does it mean?
Click to expand...
Refers to engaging in chicanery
chicanery-chuck-mcgill.gif
 
Deagonx said:
It's best to discuss it in private or off site. This thread can't be a public discussion about ongoing RVR drama, so I will delete comments referring referring to it.
Click to expand...
Not much we can do when y'all forcefully removed the only venue we had to discuss the problems in the forum, tbf.
SuperStar said:
Now that I took a good look, our PFP's really do look similar.
Click to expand...
Is your pfp based off The Legend Of Zelda or somnething?
 
Deagonx said:
Well, no, you can't. I will warn that the various attempts that morphing this into a pseudo-slander thread are more likely to result in this threads closure or a threadban than for you to be given leave to publicly comment on ongoing drama or complain about users or staff.
Click to expand...
My complaint wasn't about drama. I specifically said I'll keep that to myself. If I was making a "pseudo-slander" comment, I would've mentioned specific users in the thread I had an issue with.

I was talking about how poorly the RVR thread has been handled.
 
Which is also outside the scope of this thread. Again, the harder you try to turn this into a slander thread, the more likely it'll just be closed or the various slander bros who migrated here will be threadbanned.

RandomGuy2345 said:
Why did you delete the "omg who's hotter" meme I made? 😭
Click to expand...
Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, thanks.
 
Deagonx said:
Because it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, thanks.
Click to expand...
By that logic, a good portion of the comments on this thread need to be deleted.

I can name 5 comments on this page right here that need to be yeeted by this logic.

Deagonx said:
Which is also outside the scope of this thread. Again, the harder you try to turn this into a slander thread, the more likely it'll just be closed or the various slander bros who migrated here will be threadbanned.
Click to expand...
Again, I made a criticism that the RVR thread was being poorly handled. That's on the same level of criticizing the Supernatural Willpower page for being vague and barebones. It's constructive criticism.
 
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