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Guys, let's not derail this thread. We haven't gotten much in and this isn't helping.
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Depends on the context of the Universe while Neil certainly did attribute it. In Lucifer, it's still within Creation.I believe that silver city/heaven transcends the material realms and metaphysical realms with R>F. We can scale heaven, and mansions of the silence as 1-A. Other than that, I see errors that are not very important. For Night and Time, only the Low 1-A switch is more better.
But he still sees all creation as grains of sand. You can create two keys for it if you want.Depends on the context of the Universe while Neil certainly did attribute it. In Lucifer, it's still within Creation.
We’ll just say Heaven/City is beyond Creation.But he still sees all creation as grains of sand. You can create two keys for it if you want.
If we do that. Wouldn’t The gods sphere will also and things above it will also scale that high?We’ll just say Heaven/City is beyond Creation.
This is Vertigo, there's no such thing as Godsphere.If we do that. Wouldn’t The gods sphere will also and things above it will also scale that high?
Low 1-C is the first degree of infinity and thus is needed for transcendence to reach a higher tier in Tier 1. 2-A + infinite space is 2-A+. You need to have R>F over the infinite space-time and well the Material encompasses things much bigger with a countable infinity.I have a question, though: Is it infinite 2-As + infinite Space = high 1-B or Infinite low 1-Cs + infinite space = High 1-B?
But wasn’t vertigo added to mainline dc canon. Or will that be separated? Am curiousThis is Vertigo, there's no such thing as Godsphere.
The Cosmology blog goes by the writers and their canon.But wasn’t vertigo added to mainline dc canon. Or will that be separated? Am curious
Ok. This next part is irrelevant but instead of separating canons why can’t the wiki but high end interpretation and low end interpretation for the cosmology. I feel like that would make more sense anyway that’s all.The Cosmology blog goes by the writers and their canon.
It’s answered why they used the writer's split and why composite does not work with either higher or low interpretation.Ok. This next part is irrelevant but instead of separating canons why can’t the wiki but high end interpretation and low end interpretation for the cosmology. I feel like that would make more sense anyway that’s all.
Looks good, I'm neutralOf course, there are points I agree with you on, but there are more points I disagree with. You are against completely changing the Vertigo blog because you think it was determined and created as a result of very long discussions. However, the blog is not very elaborate and detailed. Since you usually answer without reading the thread, you portray a more prejudiced image. I would like you to evaluate the OP first. Or determine a line based on the answers given. After that we can talk about the fate of the blog.
Yes, creation is divided into material and metaphysical levels. The material plane also includes infinite dimensional structure that is higher than the 4D multiverse.Looks good, I'm neutral
It seems like infinity, infinity and infinity is a higher dimensional layer, right?
Because here it is said that the world has levels
[Here]
Existing before all dimensions will not take you to a higher level, so Low 1-A is the best option for Night and Time. We place them above the metaphysical realms and the endless.I actually disagree with L1A father time and mother night, they should be 1A, because they existed before the beginning [Here]
The scan you mention is not a clear statement of dimensionality. This is the situation according to Gross, the artist of the series. Spacelessness and timelessness, endless layering all creation and everything on top of each other, that's all for now.I know this statement isn't used, but it all makes sense now with this. Infinite layers 75 [Here]
#Edit misplaced link + Added link
I don't think there that much more powerful than the Endless. They seem to have the same reach as the Endless would at their highest, if we take into account all points of view.
Yes, everything does stack although it only applies to the Void.I know this statement isn't used, but it all makes sense now with this. Infinite layers 75 [Here]
#Edit misplaced link + Added link
You're finally back. The CRT on DeMatteis cosmology is closed, and it looks like it will be closed on this thread as well. Will you open a new CRT based on Ant and Deagon's suggestions? I will give you priority depending on the situation.I don't think there that much more powerful than the Endless. They seem to have the same reach as the Endless would at their highest, if we take into account all points of view.
Yes, everything does stack although it only applies to the Void.
Material is infinite as I mentioned. A countable infinity which is infinite spatial is why I gave it High 1-B. Heaven is another countable infinity though that doesn't matter since is QS over Creation. The Void has infinite hierarchies of infinite.
I feel if they don't read it then there's no point to which I could make to change their opinion. It's pretty ridiculous that every time they get their point rebuked, they rely on saying other things away from responding.You're finally back. The CRT on DeMatteis cosmology is closed, and it looks like it will be closed on this thread as well. Will you open a new CRT based on Ant and Deagon's suggestions? I will give you priority depending on the situation.
For example, what is the difference between their complaints about the threads you brought up and the situation here?I feel if they don't read it then there's no point to which I could make to change their opinion. It's pretty ridiculous that every time they get their point rebuked, they rely on saying other things away from responding.
That's why I even left because of the frustration of some staff members and having to explain some things from the story. I have said it before they take too much of the tiering system to implement from the story when it should be the opposite. The major consensus including some mods agreed and defended the points only to be closed down by one mod and his antics of now wanting to read because for some reason he doesn't want to read more CRT on DC.
Since we will mainly focus on the main reality also known to us as Yahweh’s Creation. I think that going over the other known creators in the lineage of Yahweh puts a perspective on how big the Creations’ are. Putting into perspective that each of them could contain dimensions like Yahweh’s did. (The Sandman Vol.2 #23)
Alrighty, off the bat, this breaks a sort of unspoken rule on here, it assumes that "dimensions" can only relate to spatial dimensionality and not just realms or universes, especially when 1/3rd of the evidence supporting this is pretty damn clearly a reference to realms and not dimensions:Due to this, he argues that an infinite everything is no different than just “everything.” This is evident since he believes that the infinite amount of universes simply is saying the same thing as an infinite universe. The Universe is the totality to describe Creation while the Multiverse refers to quantities or multiplicity of worlds, realms, and dimensions.
So what Lucifer made was not a realm like the one he ruled for ten billion years but a totality, a Multiverse. Where he now is God of his own Creation, to freely rule away from predestination. (Lucifer: Nirvana Vol.1 #1)
- worlds = universes
- Universe = Multiverse
- Realms = Outside the Material Plane
- dimensions = levels within worlds
- Creation = Totality(worlds, realms, dimensions)
So, two problems here:
- His Universe has no afterlife such as Yahweh’s with Heaven or Hell, instead realms of dimensions left unfinished with abomination and abstractions.
If Ultimas thread goes through, then yeah I could see this being 1-A considering it's pretty clearly saying that the cosmology is essentially nonexistent in comparison to the Void, and is pretty clearly not supposed to be quantitative because of Lucifers statement about "one and one are not two.", and using that as a justification for why distance and space essentially does not exist there.Yahweh(The Presence):
Yahweh is the God of Covenant/Creation and the Lord of Hosts. (Lucifer Vol.1 #35) He made worlds and created Michael and Lucifer as his second in command to do the same. An order of magnitude higher than that of the Endless and is far beyond the Archangels. (Lucifer Vol.1 #42) His name is written in every atom of Creation as he defines all the anthracite details of the Universe. When he left everything was falling apart. (Lucifer Vol.1 #51) This, of course, was changed when Elaine is the name in Creation and Yahweh no longer has a meaning. (Lucifer Vol.1 #71)
Tiering: The Presence or Yahweh is above Michael and Lucifer in terms of power and scale. Much above the Endless as the God of Creation. His true nature cements him as 1-A.
- The face of the Presence is shaped by belief or by what he chooses to meet lesser beings. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68) However, the true nature of the Presence is that of the Void. The Void simply drifts in the mind of God and all distance from him as an absolute vantage point across time and space is zero. So anything he does destroy or create Creation would have an effect that reaches from the beginning.
The Void:
The endless place where there is no time. Where all things happen simultaneously as it's separated by distance and not time. The place from which all things originate and will all return to. The infinite and eternal Void houses all Creations that are birth and destroyed simultaneously and that portion of the Void with all those Creations still amounts to 0 to the Void. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)
Tiering: The Void is beyond all dimensionality and all Creations. A place beyond all dimensional hierarchy and all things come from. It's 1-A.
I've generally used the commotion of spatiality to convey dimensional numbers. Since Vertigo does like to use “infinite” a lot with worlds, realms, and dimensions. If the Material is conveyed by time and space then I would assume there are infinite dimensions within an infinite timeline within an infinite space. It's not a stretch to see this since there are beings that embody every single type of concept as we've seen in Endless Night.I've reread the thread about two times, besides it being an informative thread that could add to the blog, I genuinely do not understand where precisely the High 1-B comes from.
In some cases, yes. However, some distinct notions don't refer to just realms or worlds.There are three parts of the thread that could, possibly be an implication of higher dimensions, lets cover some of them.
Alrighty, off the bat, this breaks a sort of unspoken rule on here, it assumes that "dimensions" can only relate to spatial dimensionality and not just realms or universes, especially when 1/3rd of the evidence supporting this is pretty damn clearly a reference to realms and not dimensions:
As I've explained. It's mainly context-based when it's not referring to realms.So, two problems here:
A) Dimensions could (and do) mean realms in this cosmology.
The Material is already infinite by supplementary information. Infinite timeline, the Dreaming is akin to the Waking which is infinite thus so is the other. This debased level of Creation would include just worlds and their components that make time and space. Directions, distance, up, and down as vector points aren't disregarded so calling them spatial is just pointing out those dimensional spaces that are rarely mentioned.B) How is this High 1-B?
Self explanatory. Where does the infinite dimensions come from (with the assumption that dimensions here are, indeed, spatial dimensions), there doesn't seem to be any reference to infinite dimensions anywhere here, the only reference of any quantity of anything being infinite in this thread is "possibilities", which, is not dimensions.
Space does exist it exists as distance. To be more precise the Void is the space. Not a conventional space with dimensions but an infinite space of nothing.If Ultimas thread goes through, then yeah I could see this being 1-A considering it's pretty clearly saying that the cosmology is essentially nonexistent in comparison to the Void, and is pretty clearly not supposed to be quantitative because of Lucifers statement about "one and one are not two.", and using that as a justification for why distance and space essentially does not exist there.
Please read the response. I don't need “from a glance” as your reasoning.Legit forgot this thread was a thing. Probably won’t post a long reply this time, but I think NHTkenshin makes the most sense from a glance.
Characters who can universally affect, create and/or destroy structures whose size is equivalent to a countably infinite number of qualitative sizes above a universal model, usually represented in fiction by endless hierarchies of layers of existence, each succeeding one completely trivializing the previous into insignificance, or more generally a space with countably infinite dimensions.
You can't really do that, champ.I've generally used the commotion of spatiality to convey dimensional numbers. Since Vertigo does like to use “infinite” a lot with worlds, realms, and dimensions. If the Material is conveyed by time and space then I would assume there are infinite dimensions within an infinite timeline within an infinite space. It's not a stretch to see this since there are beings that embody every single type of concept as we've seen in Endless Night.
You will also have to prove that. Considering there is evidence "dimension" is also used to describe realms, then prove the other instances reference dimensionality.In some cases, yes. However, some distinct notions don't refer to just realms or worlds.
As I've explained. It's mainly context-based when it's not referring to realms.
You'll just have to refer to what I said above.You can't really do that, champ.
There has to explicit evidence as to why there are infinite dimensions, there are none. And thus, it's not infinite dimensions.
If you read what I said above with how the word “infinite” in Vertigo then it helps expand on my reasoning.You will also have to prove that. Considering there is evidence "dimension" is also used to describe realms, then prove the other instances reference dimensionality.
I believe my concerns about this CRT were largely the same as many of Goofy's other CRTs, which is to say they are ungodly long and don't do a good job explaining what specific changes are being advocated for. I believe it should be closed, and if Goofy wants to pursue changes to the cosmology blog in the future, he should be required to advocate for specific changes rather than simply posting his own version of the blog in its entirety without specification of what changes are being argued for and why.
It certainly helps in your case because it's “long” but I want to target those who would read and compare it. Some stuff can stay the same and it's more fitting I go over the fundamental parts as well as express where it does need to be changed, if you intend to read it, which you made your stance clear on.I believe my concerns about this CRT were largely the same as many of Goofy's other CRTs, which is to say they are ungodly long and don't do a good job explaining what specific changes are being advocated for. I believe it should be closed, and if Goofy wants to pursue changes to the cosmology blog in the future, he should be required to advocate for specific changes rather than simply posting his own version of the blog in its entirety without specification of what changes are being argued for and why.
I'll keep that in mind, though I do see the need as this has been up like this for a while. However, I rather wait and perhaps we can open this thread later with me fixing it. I suggest we close it for now.Well, I agree about that you should try to make your threads easier to evaluate in that case.
You have not expressed where it needs to be changed. No segment of your OP describes a change being made, the only changes being argued for are implicit to the fact that they differ from the existing cosmology blog, but these are not highlighted in any way to contrast them against the segments of your giant post which just reword the same information without substantively changing it.It certainly helps in your case because it's “long” but I want to target those who would read and compare it. Some stuff can stay the same and it's more fitting I go over the fundamental parts as well as express where it does need to be changed,
Which thread?I still agree with the Void being 1-A after Ultimas thread. I don't agree with the High 1-B stuff.
The Void would likely be 0 after I discuss the matter with Ultima. As for the High 1-B stuff, it's not very particular we work with a split nor how comics rarely mention “spatial dimensions” as how we intend to scale. So it's more context-based than a direct statement.I still agree with the Void being 1-A after Ultimas thread. I don't agree with the High 1-B stuff.