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I believe that silver city/heaven transcends the material realms and metaphysical realms with R>F. We can scale heaven, and mansions of the silence as 1-A. Other than that, I see errors that are not very important. For Night and Time, only the Low 1-A switch is more better.
 
I believe that silver city/heaven transcends the material realms and metaphysical realms with R>F. We can scale heaven, and mansions of the silence as 1-A. Other than that, I see errors that are not very important. For Night and Time, only the Low 1-A switch is more better.
Depends on the context of the Universe while Neil certainly did attribute it. In Lucifer, it's still within Creation.
 
Agree

Read through it, and you are the GOAT making all these revisions. The R>F Transcendence is evident, and the Way of getting Creation to High 1-B seems to make sense, too; I have a question, though: Is it infinite 2-As + infinite Space = high 1-B or Infinite low 1-Cs + infinite space = High 1-B?
 
I have a question, though: Is it infinite 2-As + infinite Space = high 1-B or Infinite low 1-Cs + infinite space = High 1-B?
Low 1-C is the first degree of infinity and thus is needed for transcendence to reach a higher tier in Tier 1. 2-A + infinite space is 2-A+. You need to have R>F over the infinite space-time and well the Material encompasses things much bigger with a countable infinity.
 
Ok. This next part is irrelevant but instead of separating canons why can’t the wiki but high end interpretation and low end interpretation for the cosmology. I feel like that would make more sense anyway that’s all.
It’s answered why they used the writer's split and why composite does not work with either higher or low interpretation.
 
Of course, there are points I agree with you on, but there are more points I disagree with. You are against completely changing the Vertigo blog because you think it was determined and created as a result of very long discussions. However, the blog is not very elaborate and detailed. Since you usually answer without reading the thread, you portray a more prejudiced image. I would like you to evaluate the OP first. Or determine a line based on the answers given. After that we can talk about the fate of the blog.
Looks good, I'm neutral
It seems like infinity, infinity and infinity is a higher dimensional layer, right?
Because here it is said that the world has levels
[Here]
I actually disagree with L1A father time and mother night, they should be 1A, because they existed before the beginning [Here]

I know this statement isn't used, but it all makes sense now with this. Infinite layers 75 [Here]
#Edit misplaced link + Added link
 
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Looks good, I'm neutral
It seems like infinity, infinity and infinity is a higher dimensional layer, right?
Because here it is said that the world has levels
[Here]
Yes, creation is divided into material and metaphysical levels. The material plane also includes infinite dimensional structure that is higher than the 4D multiverse.
I actually disagree with L1A father time and mother night, they should be 1A, because they existed before the beginning [Here]
Existing before all dimensions will not take you to a higher level, so Low 1-A is the best option for Night and Time. We place them above the metaphysical realms and the endless.
I know this statement isn't used, but it all makes sense now with this. Infinite layers 75 [Here]
#Edit misplaced link + Added link
The scan you mention is not a clear statement of dimensionality. This is the situation according to Gross, the artist of the series. Spacelessness and timelessness, endless layering all creation and everything on top of each other, that's all for now.
 
Looks good, I'm neutral
It seems like infinity, infinity and infinity is a higher dimensional layer, right?
Because here it is said that the world has levels
[Here]
I actually disagree with L1A father time and mother night, they should be 1A, because they existed before the beginning [Here]
I don't think there that much more powerful than the Endless. They seem to have the same reach as the Endless would at their highest, if we take into account all points of view.
I know this statement isn't used, but it all makes sense now with this. Infinite layers 75 [Here]
#Edit misplaced link + Added link
Yes, everything does stack although it only applies to the Void.

Material is infinite as I mentioned. A countable infinity which is infinite spatial is why I gave it High 1-B. Heaven is another countable infinity though that doesn't matter since is QS over Creation. The Void has infinite hierarchies of infinite.
 
I don't think there that much more powerful than the Endless. They seem to have the same reach as the Endless would at their highest, if we take into account all points of view.

Yes, everything does stack although it only applies to the Void.

Material is infinite as I mentioned. A countable infinity which is infinite spatial is why I gave it High 1-B. Heaven is another countable infinity though that doesn't matter since is QS over Creation. The Void has infinite hierarchies of infinite.
You're finally back. The CRT on DeMatteis cosmology is closed, and it looks like it will be closed on this thread as well. Will you open a new CRT based on Ant and Deagon's suggestions? I will give you priority depending on the situation.
 
You're finally back. The CRT on DeMatteis cosmology is closed, and it looks like it will be closed on this thread as well. Will you open a new CRT based on Ant and Deagon's suggestions? I will give you priority depending on the situation.
I feel if they don't read it then there's no point to which I could make to change their opinion. It's pretty ridiculous that every time they get their point rebuked, they rely on saying other things away from responding.

That's why I even left because of the frustration of some staff members and having to explain some things from the story. I have said it before they take too much of the tiering system to implement from the story when it should be the opposite. The major consensus including some mods agreed and defended the points only to be closed down by one mod and his antics of now wanting to read because for some reason he doesn't want to read more CRT on DC.
 
I feel if they don't read it then there's no point to which I could make to change their opinion. It's pretty ridiculous that every time they get their point rebuked, they rely on saying other things away from responding.

That's why I even left because of the frustration of some staff members and having to explain some things from the story. I have said it before they take too much of the tiering system to implement from the story when it should be the opposite. The major consensus including some mods agreed and defended the points only to be closed down by one mod and his antics of now wanting to read because for some reason he doesn't want to read more CRT on DC.
For example, what is the difference between their complaints about the threads you brought up and the situation here?


According to them this is not a problem, is it just because there are staff?
 
I've reread the thread about two times, besides it being an informative thread that could add to the blog, I genuinely do not understand where precisely the High 1-B comes from.

There are three parts of the thread that could, possibly be an implication of higher dimensions, lets cover some of them.

Since we will mainly focus on the main reality also known to us as Yahweh’s Creation. I think that going over the other known creators in the lineage of Yahweh puts a perspective on how big the Creations’ are. Putting into perspective that each of them could contain dimensions like Yahweh’s did. (The Sandman Vol.2 #23)
Due to this, he argues that an infinite everything is no different than just “everything.” This is evident since he believes that the infinite amount of universes simply is saying the same thing as an infinite universe. The Universe is the totality to describe Creation while the Multiverse refers to quantities or multiplicity of worlds, realms, and dimensions.

So what Lucifer made was not a realm like the one he ruled for ten billion years but a totality, a Multiverse. Where he now is God of his own Creation, to freely rule away from predestination. (Lucifer: Nirvana Vol.1 #1)

  • worlds = universes
  • Universe = Multiverse
  • Realms = Outside the Material Plane
  • dimensions = levels within worlds
  • Creation = Totality(worlds, realms, dimensions)
Alrighty, off the bat, this breaks a sort of unspoken rule on here, it assumes that "dimensions" can only relate to spatial dimensionality and not just realms or universes, especially when 1/3rd of the evidence supporting this is pretty damn clearly a reference to realms and not dimensions:

So, two problems here:
A) Dimensions could (and do) mean realms in this cosmology.

B) How is this High 1-B?
Self explanatory. Where does the infinite dimensions come from (with the assumption that dimensions here are, indeed, spatial dimensions), there doesn't seem to be any reference to infinite dimensions anywhere here, the only reference of any quantity of anything being infinite in this thread is "possibilities", which, is not dimensions.

Yahweh(The Presence):

Yahweh is the God of Covenant/Creation and the Lord of Hosts. (Lucifer Vol.1 #35) He made worlds and created Michael and Lucifer as his second in command to do the same. An order of magnitude higher than that of the Endless and is far beyond the Archangels. (Lucifer Vol.1 #42) His name is written in every atom of Creation as he defines all the anthracite details of the Universe. When he left everything was falling apart. (Lucifer Vol.1 #51) This, of course, was changed when Elaine is the name in Creation and Yahweh no longer has a meaning. (Lucifer Vol.1 #71)
Tiering: The Presence or Yahweh is above Michael and Lucifer in terms of power and scale. Much above the Endless as the God of Creation. His true nature cements him as 1-A.

The Void:

The endless place where there is no time. Where all things happen simultaneously as it's separated by distance and not time. The place from which all things originate and will all return to. The infinite and eternal Void houses all Creations that are birth and destroyed simultaneously and that portion of the Void with all those Creations still amounts to 0 to the Void. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Tiering: The Void is beyond all dimensionality and all Creations. A place beyond all dimensional hierarchy and all things come from. It's 1-A.
If Ultimas thread goes through, then yeah I could see this being 1-A considering it's pretty clearly saying that the cosmology is essentially nonexistent in comparison to the Void, and is pretty clearly not supposed to be quantitative because of Lucifers statement about "one and one are not two.", and using that as a justification for why distance and space essentially does not exist there.
 
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I've reread the thread about two times, besides it being an informative thread that could add to the blog, I genuinely do not understand where precisely the High 1-B comes from.
I've generally used the commotion of spatiality to convey dimensional numbers. Since Vertigo does like to use “infinite” a lot with worlds, realms, and dimensions. If the Material is conveyed by time and space then I would assume there are infinite dimensions within an infinite timeline within an infinite space. It's not a stretch to see this since there are beings that embody every single type of concept as we've seen in Endless Night.
There are three parts of the thread that could, possibly be an implication of higher dimensions, lets cover some of them.
Alrighty, off the bat, this breaks a sort of unspoken rule on here, it assumes that "dimensions" can only relate to spatial dimensionality and not just realms or universes, especially when 1/3rd of the evidence supporting this is pretty damn clearly a reference to realms and not dimensions:
In some cases, yes. However, some distinct notions don't refer to just realms or worlds.
So, two problems here:
A) Dimensions could (and do) mean realms in this cosmology.
As I've explained. It's mainly context-based when it's not referring to realms.
B) How is this High 1-B?
Self explanatory. Where does the infinite dimensions come from (with the assumption that dimensions here are, indeed, spatial dimensions), there doesn't seem to be any reference to infinite dimensions anywhere here, the only reference of any quantity of anything being infinite in this thread is "possibilities", which, is not dimensions.
The Material is already infinite by supplementary information. Infinite timeline, the Dreaming is akin to the Waking which is infinite thus so is the other. This debased level of Creation would include just worlds and their components that make time and space. Directions, distance, up, and down as vector points aren't disregarded so calling them spatial is just pointing out those dimensional spaces that are rarely mentioned.
If Ultimas thread goes through, then yeah I could see this being 1-A considering it's pretty clearly saying that the cosmology is essentially nonexistent in comparison to the Void, and is pretty clearly not supposed to be quantitative because of Lucifers statement about "one and one are not two.", and using that as a justification for why distance and space essentially does not exist there.
Space does exist it exists as distance. To be more precise the Void is the space. Not a conventional space with dimensions but an infinite space of nothing.
 
Legit forgot this thread was a thing. Probably won’t post a long reply this time, but I think NHTkenshin makes the most sense from a glance.
 
Just for reference, worlds, and dimensions are on the most debased level of Creation. As mentioned the Material is the lowest level by Soloman.

Mike Carey and his entire #20 arc as well as his tweet mentioned “infinity.” How Lucifer can craft it from any material and affect the size of time and space with it. Not to mention his Creation has infinite distance and his border stretches to infinity.

Elaine while being helped by Duma mentions that a soul can harbor millions of Heavens and there are infinite amounts across the plane.

Lucifer shattered his gate stretching across all time and space. Each door for each world and each realm. Vertigo uses “all” to encompass infinity.

Dreaming is akin to Waking as the Dreaming is infinite so is the Waking which contains all worlds. Within each one with timelines and possibilities that go to infinity. So all the time and spaces mentioned by Destiny and even the Inn keepers are suggesting everything is infinite on all levels.

Infinite worlds
Infinite time and space
Infinite heavens
Dreaming being infinite
Creation being infinite
Mansion containing an infinite of infinite
Void has an infinite hierarchy.

To dismiss the claim because there is a lack of isn't a reason to suggest there isn't. Infinite space within worlds and dimensions would suggest both the former and the latter are infinite. Lucifer mentions infinite on any level that you break it doesn't get smaller. So space with countable infinite dimensions would similarly sound like the requirement:
Characters who can universally affect, create and/or destroy structures whose size is equivalent to a countably infinite number of qualitative sizes above a universal model, usually represented in fiction by endless hierarchies of layers of existence, each succeeding one completely trivializing the previous into insignificance, or more generally a space with countably infinite dimensions.
 
I've generally used the commotion of spatiality to convey dimensional numbers. Since Vertigo does like to use “infinite” a lot with worlds, realms, and dimensions. If the Material is conveyed by time and space then I would assume there are infinite dimensions within an infinite timeline within an infinite space. It's not a stretch to see this since there are beings that embody every single type of concept as we've seen in Endless Night.
You can't really do that, champ.

There has to explicit evidence as to why there are infinite dimensions, there are none. And thus, it's not infinite dimensions.

In some cases, yes. However, some distinct notions don't refer to just realms or worlds.
As I've explained. It's mainly context-based when it's not referring to realms.
You will also have to prove that. Considering there is evidence "dimension" is also used to describe realms, then prove the other instances reference dimensionality.
 
You can't really do that, champ.

There has to explicit evidence as to why there are infinite dimensions, there are none. And thus, it's not infinite dimensions.
You'll just have to refer to what I said above.
You will also have to prove that. Considering there is evidence "dimension" is also used to describe realms, then prove the other instances reference dimensionality.
If you read what I said above with how the word “infinite” in Vertigo then it helps expand on my reasoning.
 
I believe my concerns about this CRT were largely the same as many of Goofy's other CRTs, which is to say they are ungodly long and don't do a good job explaining what specific changes are being advocated for. I believe it should be closed, and if Goofy wants to pursue changes to the cosmology blog in the future, he should be required to advocate for specific changes rather than simply posting his own version of the blog in its entirety without specification of what changes are being argued for and why.
 
I believe my concerns about this CRT were largely the same as many of Goofy's other CRTs, which is to say they are ungodly long and don't do a good job explaining what specific changes are being advocated for. I believe it should be closed, and if Goofy wants to pursue changes to the cosmology blog in the future, he should be required to advocate for specific changes rather than simply posting his own version of the blog in its entirety without specification of what changes are being argued for and why.
It certainly helps in your case because it's “long” but I want to target those who would read and compare it. Some stuff can stay the same and it's more fitting I go over the fundamental parts as well as express where it does need to be changed, if you intend to read it, which you made your stance clear on.
 
Well, I agree about that you should try to make your threads easier to evaluate in that case.
I'll keep that in mind, though I do see the need as this has been up like this for a while. However, I rather wait and perhaps we can open this thread later with me fixing it. I suggest we close it for now.
 
It certainly helps in your case because it's “long” but I want to target those who would read and compare it. Some stuff can stay the same and it's more fitting I go over the fundamental parts as well as express where it does need to be changed,
You have not expressed where it needs to be changed. No segment of your OP describes a change being made, the only changes being argued for are implicit to the fact that they differ from the existing cosmology blog, but these are not highlighted in any way to contrast them against the segments of your giant post which just reword the same information without substantively changing it.

This makes it impossible to evaluate in any substantive way without dedicating an unreasonable amount of time to comparing and contrasting both blogs to look for the changes. I shouldn't have to spend hours reading in order to determine what your argument even is. I will not waste my time like that.
 
I still agree with the Void being 1-A after Ultimas thread. I don't agree with the High 1-B stuff.
The Void would likely be 0 after I discuss the matter with Ultima. As for the High 1-B stuff, it's not very particular we work with a split nor how comics rarely mention “spatial dimensions” as how we intend to scale. So it's more context-based than a direct statement.
 
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