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Vergil (Devil May Cry) VS. Saber/Okita Souji (Nasuverse)
- Thread starter Cultivator_Daemon
- Start date
- Status
John985
He/Him- 3,480
- 543
"Guardians are colorless force that places humanity's survival before anything.
The powers are in the heavens, and the guardians appear in this world only when there's a chance of human extinction.
…I knew they were just slaves.
I knew that people who become guardians are removed from the circle of reincarnation and become like nothingness."
"But I did not care, so long as I could save people.
Emiya Shirou could not fulfill his oath.
So I thought it would be fine if I could become a guardian to take part in stopping humanity's destruction."
"But it's actually different. Guardians do not save people.
All they do is clean up after humans. They take what has been done and nullify it with their powers."
"They do not save people. All they do is eliminate harmful people, without distinction of good or evil.
They do not save people in despair. Instead, they eliminate people in despair in order to save others who are enjoying life.
It's so ridiculous. How am I different from before?"
"…Archer. You have repeated such a thing forever…?"
"I got used to it. Humans repeat things. The strong feed on the weak, regardless of what age we're talking about. And I came to realize that it is the most efficient way to prosper."
The powers are in the heavens, and the guardians appear in this world only when there's a chance of human extinction.
…I knew they were just slaves.
I knew that people who become guardians are removed from the circle of reincarnation and become like nothingness."
"But I did not care, so long as I could save people.
Emiya Shirou could not fulfill his oath.
So I thought it would be fine if I could become a guardian to take part in stopping humanity's destruction."
"But it's actually different. Guardians do not save people.
All they do is clean up after humans. They take what has been done and nullify it with their powers."
"They do not save people. All they do is eliminate harmful people, without distinction of good or evil.
They do not save people in despair. Instead, they eliminate people in despair in order to save others who are enjoying life.
It's so ridiculous. How am I different from before?"
"…Archer. You have repeated such a thing forever…?"
"I got used to it. Humans repeat things. The strong feed on the weak, regardless of what age we're talking about. And I came to realize that it is the most efficient way to prosper."
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<Being sent at different points in time mean fighting for 2000 years
what
what
John985
He/Him- 3,480
- 543
Fighting forever is exaggeration for CG......
That's literally what it is, they fight forever. Even if they try to kill they're past self so that they wont become a CG, it wouldn't work.
"I don't want to clean up after people. But as long as I'm a guardian, there's no way for me to escape this cycle.----Save one exception."
They are "nothing" to start with. It is meaningless to kill something that is not part of the real world.
…But.
There is one way for him to disappear.
If someone who is to become a hero is killed before he becomes a hero, that hero will never come into existence.
Therefore
"Are you going to kill Shirou here with your own hands?"
"Yes. I kept waiting for this chance. It was a possibility close to zero.
But I staked everything on it. I could not contain myself unless I believed in it. While I acted as a guardian, this was the one hope that kept me going."
"…That is meaningless, Archer.
You have already become a guardian. So it is too late. Even if you kill Emiya Shirou, who has yet to become a hero, you yourself will not disappear."
That's literally what it is, they fight forever. Even if they try to kill they're past self so that they wont become a CG, it wouldn't work.
"I don't want to clean up after people. But as long as I'm a guardian, there's no way for me to escape this cycle.----Save one exception."
They are "nothing" to start with. It is meaningless to kill something that is not part of the real world.
…But.
There is one way for him to disappear.
If someone who is to become a hero is killed before he becomes a hero, that hero will never come into existence.
Therefore
"Are you going to kill Shirou here with your own hands?"
"Yes. I kept waiting for this chance. It was a possibility close to zero.
But I staked everything on it. I could not contain myself unless I believed in it. While I acted as a guardian, this was the one hope that kept me going."
"…That is meaningless, Archer.
You have already become a guardian. So it is too late. Even if you kill Emiya Shirou, who has yet to become a hero, you yourself will not disappear."
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<Fighting forever is an exaggeration
Well there you go.
Fighting forever doesn’t mean you have infinite experience either, even if I were to assume Emiya fought in 1000 different conflicts, which is a massive highball, almost all of those conflicts are against humans he can easily stomp.
It’s not a notable skill feat to just fight forever alone, given that Emiya gets curbstomoed in skill by people who have fought for far less time like Saber and Lancer and by his own accord is bad at CQC, being a counter guardian is not at all a good skill feat let alone putting you on par with a guy like Vergil.
Well there you go.
Fighting forever doesn’t mean you have infinite experience either, even if I were to assume Emiya fought in 1000 different conflicts, which is a massive highball, almost all of those conflicts are against humans he can easily stomp.
It’s not a notable skill feat to just fight forever alone, given that Emiya gets curbstomoed in skill by people who have fought for far less time like Saber and Lancer and by his own accord is bad at CQC, being a counter guardian is not at all a good skill feat let alone putting you on par with a guy like Vergil.
John985
He/Him- 3,480
- 543
Yes he get stomp by Lancer. But Lancer even said that he is not weak, when he can fight him defensively and not being killed instantly. Even Heracles compliments his skill, that he really wish to be summon in a normal class just to fight him.
Yeah he said that he is bad at CQC, but he always downplay himself.
Yeah he said that he is bad at CQC, but he always downplay himself.
| …This battle was too strange for him as well. His "Noble Phantasm" nullifies any attack. No attack can affect his body unless it is of the highest grade. So, he rarely takes wounds. In the age of gods, no one could scratch him after he had accomplished his great deeds. But still, six times. Archer delivered a fatal blow six times. It does not even need to be said that every one of the attacks was by a different method. Even the greatest attacks cannot be effective on Berserker twice. …If one seeks strangeness, that is the strange part. If Archer is a hero with such varied abilities, his true identity should have been clear. But his true identity still remained unknown even after his body was pulverized. What was really surprising was his way of being, contradictory to that of a Servant. ...A dim light grows in Berserker's eyes. If he had been summoned as a normal servant, he would have grieved that this battle "deserved better". No matter who he really was, Archer was a rare great enemy. If he had not been mad, he could have matched sword techniques with Archer to his heart's content and passed a satisfying time. |
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Lancer said he wasn’t weak, and he can fight defensively, but Lancer has also not fought for 2000 years straight against comparable opponents like Sparda has, and neither has Herc.
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Massively more skilled then Emiya doesn't put you on par with Vergil either?
Let me be abundantly clear here, Vergil simply looks at a weapon and grabs it, and immediately masters every possible,fighting style with it. Broadsword, Katana, Gauntlets, does not matter, this dude fights on par with someone who can do that exact same thing as he can, with more versatility, the ability to time slow, and far more weaponry that he also masters, from Duel Swords, to multiple firearms, and spatial resistance, and he managed to stalemate this dude while he was weaker. And no don't give me the "Emiya can do that too" because learning a fighting style of your own accord is far better then simply copying it through a power.
Vergil is also far more versatile and over 3x stronger then Sakura and the moment he amps in DT she gets blitzed and borderline one shotted.
Sakura's skill needs to be far better if she is outmatched that badly in strength and versatility against an opponent like Vergil.
EDIT: Also I forgot she has E Rank MR, so she gets one shotted regardless....
Let me be abundantly clear here, Vergil simply looks at a weapon and grabs it, and immediately masters every possible,fighting style with it. Broadsword, Katana, Gauntlets, does not matter, this dude fights on par with someone who can do that exact same thing as he can, with more versatility, the ability to time slow, and far more weaponry that he also masters, from Duel Swords, to multiple firearms, and spatial resistance, and he managed to stalemate this dude while he was weaker. And no don't give me the "Emiya can do that too" because learning a fighting style of your own accord is far better then simply copying it through a power.
Vergil is also far more versatile and over 3x stronger then Sakura and the moment he amps in DT she gets blitzed and borderline one shotted.
Sakura's skill needs to be far better if she is outmatched that badly in strength and versatility against an opponent like Vergil.
EDIT: Also I forgot she has E Rank MR, so she gets one shotted regardless....
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Hozoin fighting a 2A Buddha as a 6C is an outlier
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She manipulates fate, not really a skill feat as much as it is a hax feat.
Hozoin fighting a 2A with literally no hax at all should be common sense on how much of an outlier it is, give me a good reason how somone quadrillions of times faster doesn't blitz you.....
Hozoin fighting a 2A with literally no hax at all should be common sense on how much of an outlier it is, give me a good reason how somone quadrillions of times faster doesn't blitz you.....
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'You're just saying Outlier even though all the other sword saints can do it'
Because that's a valid point, and you don't seem to have a good counter for it given that you have given literally zero proper explanation for how you can fight someone infinitely stronger and millions of times faster other then skill, even the most unskilled fighter in the world can punch a statue.
Hell, this kind of skill feats were already debunked in an accepted CRT https://vsbattles.com/threads/skill-revisions-standards-change.108126/#post-3354583
So really, you are saying she wins via skill because she, a Low 7B to 6C who is MHS can fight a 2A and MFTL+ character via skill, seriously look at that for a moment.
Because that's a valid point, and you don't seem to have a good counter for it given that you have given literally zero proper explanation for how you can fight someone infinitely stronger and millions of times faster other then skill, even the most unskilled fighter in the world can punch a statue.
Hell, this kind of skill feats were already debunked in an accepted CRT https://vsbattles.com/threads/skill-revisions-standards-change.108126/#post-3354583
So really, you are saying she wins via skill because she, a Low 7B to 6C who is MHS can fight a 2A and MFTL+ character via skill, seriously look at that for a moment.
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No explanation, no telling how she doesn't get hit by an MFTL+ while she's MHS, other then skill. Awesome
Next.
Next.
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Like you said, he is a general, he is a leader, not necessarily a frontline combatant.
He's good at combat, but still not Vergil level.
@CrimsonStarFallen can't she just manipulate possibilities in her favor to strike Vergil's neck or no?
He's good at combat, but still not Vergil level.
@CrimsonStarFallen can't she just manipulate possibilities in her favor to strike Vergil's neck or no?
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John985
He/Him- 3,480
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Can't really give it because its in japanese. But I can explain some stuff. NA is gonna reach it next month though.
Lostbelt exist because something happen that stop humanities progress. In LB3 Qin Shi Huang achieve immortality and he manage to conquer the world and built the great wall of china in space to stop foreign invaders.
Qin Shi huang is from 259BC and Xiang Yu 232BC.
Lostbelt exist because something happen that stop humanities progress. In LB3 Qin Shi Huang achieve immortality and he manage to conquer the world and built the great wall of china in space to stop foreign invaders.
Qin Shi huang is from 259BC and Xiang Yu 232BC.
John985
He/Him- 3,480
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You can just search this stuff though? Because Qin Shi Huan and Xiang Yu are historical people.
In Lostbelt 3, they still exist because they turn they're bodies into machines.
Someone with this look is not a frontline fighter huh.
Xiang Yu mats, then Qin Shi Huang.
In Lostbelt 3, they still exist because they turn they're bodies into machines.
Someone with this look is not a frontline fighter huh.
Xiang Yu mats, then Qin Shi Huang.
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Oh god is this the ******* skill thread all over again. Okay, let's clarify something about folks like the sword saints: They. Do. Not. Need. Their. Hax.
Their hax is a product of their skill, and all of the shit they pull off they could do without their hax. Yes, Musashi has her mystic eyes, but they are a product of her mentality. Yes, she can eliminate possibilities, but that's born from her sharply honed ability to look at all the possible ways a fight can go, figure out even a single path that leads her to victory, then pour her entire being into doing exactly what needs to be done to bring that about. Same goes for Kojiro and Okita and their respective techniques
I saw someone mention previously in the thread talk about how Vergil scales above Dante who can master any weapon he comes in contact with. Lancelot and other Eternal Arms Mastery users, who are not even close to the skill of a sword saint, can do the same thing while under any forms of mental illness you can think of and not be impeded by it at all. Lancelot's noble phantasm is A Knight Does Not Die Empty-Handed, which allows him to enhance any sort of object to the rank of a noble phantasm and use it as a weapon; of course, that's not a skill feat in its own right, but the ability to use anything from swords being shot at him rapid fire, to a telephone pole, to chopsticks, to many kinds of fire arms (keep in mind, this dude is from the middle ages), to fighter jets, to a tree branch, to literally any of the other Noble Phantasm seen in fate that can be grabbed, is definitely a massive skill feat.
Does anyone have the back up of the Musashi vs Ikki thread? We should probably just link that cuz I wrote down a bunch of the skill feats and scaling there, and I am neither willing nor able with the time that I have to retread all that ground
Their hax is a product of their skill, and all of the shit they pull off they could do without their hax. Yes, Musashi has her mystic eyes, but they are a product of her mentality. Yes, she can eliminate possibilities, but that's born from her sharply honed ability to look at all the possible ways a fight can go, figure out even a single path that leads her to victory, then pour her entire being into doing exactly what needs to be done to bring that about. Same goes for Kojiro and Okita and their respective techniques
I saw someone mention previously in the thread talk about how Vergil scales above Dante who can master any weapon he comes in contact with. Lancelot and other Eternal Arms Mastery users, who are not even close to the skill of a sword saint, can do the same thing while under any forms of mental illness you can think of and not be impeded by it at all. Lancelot's noble phantasm is A Knight Does Not Die Empty-Handed, which allows him to enhance any sort of object to the rank of a noble phantasm and use it as a weapon; of course, that's not a skill feat in its own right, but the ability to use anything from swords being shot at him rapid fire, to a telephone pole, to chopsticks, to many kinds of fire arms (keep in mind, this dude is from the middle ages), to fighter jets, to a tree branch, to literally any of the other Noble Phantasm seen in fate that can be grabbed, is definitely a massive skill feat.
Does anyone have the back up of the Musashi vs Ikki thread? We should probably just link that cuz I wrote down a bunch of the skill feats and scaling there, and I am neither willing nor able with the time that I have to retread all that ground
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Eternal Arms Mastery is just raw skill, and it is a state that is only obtained by the most skilled fighter of an era. Also did you just like, not read the point that I was making about A Knight Does Not Die With Empty Hands not scaling from it being a noble phantasm? I literally said that the actual effects of the noble phantasm can't be scaled from, but the skill required is all his own, separate from the object strengthening. I swear to god if you next tell me that Red Hare's mastery over every martial art in existence is "just abilities" as well
You completely missed my point here too. Schnee was making the point that she only won due to hax, and I'm saying her hax made absolutely no difference in those fights, as the outcome would be the same whether she used them or not.
John985
He/Him- 3,480
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Those skill they have is something they have while alive. Its just that when they became a servant they would be treated well, skills or like abilites.
In the mats, its even separated by class skill to personal skill.
Fate Extra material
""These are special skills or weapons used as a Servant’s trump card. They often comprise of the beloved weapons that Servants had when they were alive, or anecdotal stories about the Servant that is reproduced as a miracle.""
In the mats, its even separated by class skill to personal skill.
Fate Extra material
""These are special skills or weapons used as a Servant’s trump card. They often comprise of the beloved weapons that Servants had when they were alive, or anecdotal stories about the Servant that is reproduced as a miracle.""
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This is why skill discussions are cancer and everyone knows it >_>
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I just wanted to explain Vergil isnt a guy who just swings his sword >_>
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@Schnee_One
Again, i wouldn't say it's manipulating possibilities. She looks into every possible combat scenario and works her way into the most favorable one. In that sense, yeah, she'd go for the decap.
Also reminder that Lancelot can appernetly grab a ******* tornado and swing it as a weapon with Knight of Honor lol
Again, i wouldn't say it's manipulating possibilities. She looks into every possible combat scenario and works her way into the most favorable one. In that sense, yeah, she'd go for the decap.
Also reminder that Lancelot can appernetly grab a ******* tornado and swing it as a weapon with Knight of Honor lol
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Well I'm not going to bother with that explanation, my main question is if she can get around Vergil's shit with skill alone
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By decap you mean decapitation ? If yes Vergil's regen covers that, and he also have immortality type 3 so he pretty much heals and survives anything from Mid to below.
John985
He/Him- 3,480
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- Status
