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Upgrade for the Gods ability. Maou Gakuin

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Theglassman12 said:
@Dog3352 which you guys have failed to give any solid evidence that this is actual plot hax and not just more fate hax for order, so saying "once it's accepted" means jack shit here since I can easily say "once this is rejected no one's going to agree with this idea". So actually argue about the now, instead of what might happen.

Did you bother clicking on the link I sent where the kanji for plot also has "plan and scheme" in it? Because that's my proof that there's multiple meanings, which again goes back to my point. Prove that they literally mean the script/narrative being controlled. Prove to me that the order is treated like an actual storyboard the gods can rewrite on a whim, prove that they can control a literal theater that has some control over the entire world. If you cannot give these blatant examples to prove your point and just keep speculating then this isn't going to be accepted, simple as that.
Click to expand...
Once again appealing to ignorance...you are not only appealing to ignorance...but now you are also being ignorant...very well then...

First of all: Neither you nor any of the others have given me what I have been asking for all along.

I will ask you one more time, could you please send me some supporting evidence where "plot" is mentioned as "plan"?

As I have said several times....you are just plain ignorant...believing that the fact that there is more than one meaning for such a word totally refutes my argument...besides the fact that no one has sent any supporting evidence that when he mentions "plot" he is actually mentioning "plan"...there is also the fact that you do not know Maou Gakuin like the people who defend them...we read the web novel...we know the verse well thanks to that... "All according to the plot of the world."...answer me my dear friend...how exactly will the militia world create a brain and think of a plan?...it would be interesting you tell me how this will be happening in Maou Gakuin... and I know Eques well enough to know that he does not mention himself in third person...so he is obviously mentioning the militia world and not himself...and the militia world does not have a mind of its own...so there is no way he can mention plan...the only possible meanings that fit are "plan" and "plot"...and as I mentioned before...the militia world doesn't have a mind...there's no way he's talking about plan...

And reread what I said...I said that should the order = plot happen...not that it will happen...you just acted very ignorant to me at that point...

"「世界わたしに矛盾など存在しない。すべては秩序の歯車通りに回っている」"

"There are no contradictions in my world. Everything is spinning according to the wheels of order."

Fate Manipulation[/SPOILER]
is the ability to manipulate destiny itself to achieve a desired result. More subtle forms of the ability can simply nudge events in the users favor while more powerful variations can make it possible to ordain one's victory against their opponent.

Users may be able to determine how things will proceed by writing into the plot what is going to happen (emulating fate, causality and/or probability manipulation).


Eques mentions that everything rotates according to his order...and tell me how exactly that would sound like manipulation of fate?...Eques is saying that everything in the militia world basically happens according to his order...I don't think a manipulation of fate does that...

And as I said before...IF the order of the main God = plot was accepted...it would make more sense to say "All according to the plot of the world"...because the order of all the Gods exists at all times in the Militia World...everyone in the Militia World would be following the order of Eques...the plot without them realizing it...because orders are what keep the world going......humans...demons...spirits...or whatever...and I don't doubt that even the misfits couldn't escape it...because Eques has killed many misfits in the past.

「深化神曰く、神にとって世界は劇場の舞台らしいが、さ えこひいき しずめお前は興行主が依怙贔屓で割り振った主役といった ところか。役柄は大層立派だが、 当の役者が大根ではな」

“According to Shinkagami, the world seems to be the stage of a theater for the gods, but even so, it seems like you are the leading role assigned by the impresario.

Honorable mention... because the fact that this subject was brought up a second time... and the second time not using metaphor to explain anything... I believe not just a metaphor...

And the author of MGK is not an idiot...if it was really an Eques "plan" or a "scheme" he could just mention it in another way...and not with the word..."plot"...
 
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Theglassman12 said:
Your scans tells us otherwise because it all just sounds like fate hax. Not my fault the series didn't do a good job of making Order not related to fate.
Click to expand...
You sure it’s not cus a certain vampy boy won’t win if this goes through?

Edit:Sorry if this is toxic.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@EldemadeDityjon not a single thing you've quoted here remotely proves plot hax whatsoever, this is just more fate hax, not plot hax.
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  • No still don't see a scan where it states order as Fate manipulation
  • Its clearly mentioned Order and fate in same feat.
  • Eques Overwrote the previous order and created a new destination for the reality they were Fighting.
  • If you check the plot manipulation page you can see first possible usage of plot manipulation. Also he didn't changed the fate he literally created a new destiny and rules of the world. Which can't overturned by any laws and concepts and fate manipulation.
Users may be able to determine how things will proceed by writing into the plot what is going to happen (emulating fate, causality and/or probability manipulation).
Click to expand...
  • This backs up why the " All according to script of the world" makes sense.
  • He writes the scripts of the reality so like that plot comes to exist.
  • To further back it up theater for god's statement from Dilfred makes more sense
  • HFG statement about curtain of the stage is mortal world is even one more thing.
  • Eugola Raviaz watching over the past and keeping the past as past and records and everything as past like how you store up the plot is another example.
  • NAFTA can see infinite futures & possibilities which already exists and she can't overwrite those future and Possibilities where Eques literary overwrote and Created a new path in the order.

i already gaven many examples still yet to see any proper refute.

Catpija said:
@Theglassman12 arguments make more sense, this just sounds like a very strong fate hax. Disagree FRA
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Instead of saying it's fate manipulation why don't you people show me a single scans where order is referred to as fate.
Shmooply said:
I share the same sentiment as @Everything12, it sounds more like the characters talking about a plan or something similar, so count me in as disagreeing with the OP.
Click to expand...
"All according to plan of the world"

"All according to script of the world"

Man according you plan makes more sense right ?
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Fixxed That doesn't answer my question, nothing about your comment answered anything I've asked. You haven't given me solid evidence that these are tangible things that exist in MG, you haven't proven that they literally control these actual scripts and theatres with Order itself. Give me actual evidence of this instead of trying to interpret it one way, because the kanji/translation can interpret it as another.
Click to expand...
I dont interpret anything here (in fact you guys who disagree that interpret so far, and i will says is will going out from the context that author want to write). Order literally stated by eques the will of the world it self is being the script, and also stated by God like dilfred the whole world is just a theater that follow the script(Order), if you says it only metaphor, then nousgalia statement counter you, nousgalia clearly mention about the theater things and he in the situation where he didnt even need to make a metaphor.

And the statement from credible character is enough for proof, you dont really need actual action to proof anything
 
@Dog3352 no, you're the ignorant one for not bothering to read the link I've sent you where the kanji has different meanings here. How about clicking on that for once and address the argument instead of pretending it doesn't exist, because saying "we're ignorant" isn't enough.

Everything rotates according to his order is the most flowery language for fate hax I've ever seen. The fact he's talking about dictating others and controlling them makes it very clear he's talking about fate hax and not plot hax since he isn't doing any of the blatant showings for plot hax.

wow, congratulations on bringing up a random line I already tackled which debunks plot hax when they literally say it seems to be the stage instead of it being a literal stage. Totally great argument here.

@WarbleComeBack thanks for the appeal to motive fallacy here, that totally debunks literally everything I've ever said and totally cannot be applied to your end where so many folks only want this so they can stomp someone. If you wanna accuse someone of being biased, how about you check your own side first before attempting to throw shade, because you are doing a very shit job here of making your arguments legit.

@EldemadeDityjon So no attempt to prove that the theatres and script thing are a tangible thing? Good to know this discussion was worth it and not a waste of time.

@Fixxed Yes you are interpreting things here, especially when you don't prove your case with evidence to suggest the plot is being warped in a literal sense here. Never said to be just a theatre, literally everything about the theatre description is so metaphorical with no elaboration on it being literal that plot hax ain't happening here. Also that's not how plot hax works here, for an ability as specific as that you'd need actual showings of plot hax happening as it can be interpreted in many other ways.

Anyways I've counted the total votes here, and I'm being generous and including the one time comment votes.

Agree: 8 (Eldemadydityjon, dread, warblecomeback, Gustitalk12, oberon, accelerator, Yopercy, wwereymy235)

Disagree: 14 (Mad dog of Fujiwara, Theglassman12, deonment, Blackcurrant91, Oblivion of the Endless, Regidian, Everything12, Lugh Tuathe De, Zencha9, KntolRicat, Naitodesu, Vietthai96, Shmooply, Catpija)

Neutral: 5 (Overlord THE END, Dereck03, Shadow Somnius, Caduz213, Actuallyspaceman)

If I were to be much harsher and remove the bolded votes by people who flat out confirmed to be biased on this upgrade just because they want a character to win, and not because of the legitimacy of the arguments this drops down to a 6 votes, meaning it's outnumbered 2:1. This plot hax has been rejected, more staff members disagreed to this, move on to the causality stuff, then I'm going to close this thread once the probability stuff gets accepted.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@EldemadeDityjon So no attempt to prove that the theatres and script thing are a tangible thing? Good to know this discussion was worth it and not a waste of time.
Click to expand...
Sure if you don't have any Actual Refute and scans for what I asked feel free to use your assumption and headcanon.
Theglassman12 said:
If I were to be much harsher and remove the bolded votes by people who flat out confirmed to be biased on this upgrade just because they want a character to win, and not because of the legitimacy of the arguments
Click to expand...
Just so some one says some character needs to win doesn't mean they are wrong unlike you who haven't provided a single scans of order = plot I have already gave you many explanation. Sure ignore it like you want. Also feel free to show me a screenshot of me saying anywhere I was biased and I am trying to make the fate manipulation as plot manipulation. It is just you are trying to brush off your burden by calling others biased
Theglassman12 said:
this drops down to a 6 votes, meaning it's outnumbered 2:1. This plot hax has been rejected, more staff members disagreed to this, move on to the causality stuff, then I'm going to close this thread once the probability stuff gets accepted.
Click to expand...
It's s not like Wiki lacks any staffs. We will try to contact other staff no need to just close this. If you disagree sure we will keep that as disgree.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dog3352 no, you're the ignorant one for not bothering to read the link I've sent you where the kanji has different meanings here. How about clicking on that for once and address the argument instead of pretending it doesn't exist, because saying "we're ignorant" isn't enough.

Everything rotates according to his order is the most flowery language for fate hax I've ever seen. The fact he's talking about dictating others and controlling them makes it very clear he's talking about fate hax and not plot hax since he isn't doing any of the blatant showings for plot hax.

wow, congratulations on bringing up a random line I already tackled which debunks plot hax when they literally say it seems to be the stage instead of it being a literal stage. Totally great argument here.

@WarbleComeBack thanks for the appeal to motive fallacy here, that totally debunks literally everything I've ever said and totally cannot be applied to your end where so many folks only want this so they can stomp someone. If you wanna accuse someone of being biased, how about you check your own side first before attempting to throw shade, because you are doing a very shit job here of making your arguments legit.

@EldemadeDityjon So no attempt to prove that the theatres and script thing are a tangible thing? Good to know this discussion was worth it and not a waste of time.

@Fixxed Yes you are interpreting things here, especially when you don't prove your case with evidence to suggest the plot is being warped in a literal sense here. Never said to be just a theatre, literally everything about the theatre description is so metaphorical with no elaboration on it being literal that plot hax ain't happening here. Also that's not how plot hax works here, for an ability as specific as that you'd need actual showings of plot hax happening as it can be interpreted in many other ways.

Anyways I've counted the total votes here, and I'm being generous and including the one time comment votes.

Agree: 8 (Eldemadydityjon, dread, warblecomeback, Gustitalk12, oberon, accelerator, Yopercy, wwereymy235)

Disagree: 14 (Mad dog of Fujiwara, Theglassman12, deonment, Blackcurrant91, Oblivion of the Endless, Regidian, Everything12, Lugh Tuathe De, Zencha9, KntolRicat, Naitodesu, Vietthai96, Shmooply, Catpija)

Neutral: 5 (Overlord THE END, Dereck03, Shadow Somnius, Caduz213, Actuallyspaceman)

If I were to be much harsher and remove the bolded votes by people who flat out confirmed to be biased on this upgrade just because they want a character to win, and not because of the legitimacy of the arguments this drops down to a 6 votes, meaning it's outnumbered 2:1. This plot hax has been rejected, more staff members disagreed to this, move on to the causality stuff, then I'm going to close this thread once the probability stuff gets accepted.
Click to expand...
Seem very touchy about me bringing up Dracula, no one deny’s that he was the one who got MG supporters searching for plot manip, But YOU SAYING ORDER IS JUST FATE MANIP WHEN ITS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIMES THAT IT IS NOT THE SAME THING, gets me questioning about motive. Also, I’m on Dracula's side I want anos to lose since it’s not gonna happen in verse, I just don’t think you should gate keep an ability due to bias.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dog3352 no, you're the ignorant one for not bothering to read the link I've sent you where the kanji has different meanings here. How about clicking on that for once and address the argument instead of pretending it doesn't exist, because saying "we're ignorant" isn't enough.

Everything rotates according to his order is the most flowery language for fate hax I've ever seen. The fact he's talking about dictating others and controlling them makes it very clear he's talking about fate hax and not plot hax since he isn't doing any of the blatant showings for plot hax.

wow, congratulations on bringing up a random line I already tackled which debunks plot hax when they literally say it seems to be the stage instead of it being a literal stage. Totally great argument here.
Click to expand...
You continue with the same argument, and that's not what Eques is talking about, Eques says that everything that happens in the world happens according to your order, but he's not talking about the future, and he's not talking about controlling others, and much less of limiting people to a predetermined destination. And Eques never used the wheel of fate in the militia world, which is the world he is mentioning in his speech. He says that everything that happens in Militia World is according to his order, not in the future, but literally everything, he is not talking about the ability where he can control the Gods and use their orders, or limit a person to a destiny. predetermined, let alone control people. And as I've said before, I'm not ignoring the fact that the word "plot" has other meanings, and the fourth time I'm going to ask this, could you please show me proof that by mentioning "plot" Eques is mentioning a "plan"? Besides, the Militia World doesn't think.
 
Man when you don't have any actual refute call others biased. Great way to deal with it.

@Theglassman12

Me saying drop plot manipulation thread I want anos to win has nothing to with any of the headcanon you people making. I will be waiting for you to show me an actual screenshot where I explicitly stated let us wank the fate manipulation as plot manipulation

Instead of trying to call others biased & shuts us down. Why don't you show me a single scan which i provided stating order as fate.
 
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Lugh_Tuathe_Dé said:
Why are you asking for scans when they're using your own scan against you?????
Click to expand...
I am still waiting. Can you show me where he explicitly refuted my argument with my own scans ?

You said he refuted me with my own scans right where ?
All I see you people arguing with your own belief where we are arguing with the narrative. I will be waiting for you to show me an actual refute he made against me with my own scan

I am really curious where he pointed out order = fate
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I am still waiting. Can you show me where he explicitly refuted mu argument with my own scans ?

You said he refuted me with my own scans right where ?
All I see you people arguing with your own belief where we are arguing with the narrative. I will be waiting for you to show me an actual refute be made against me with my own scan

I am really curious where he pointed out order = fate
Click to expand...
I got you it’s this quote right here:

“”
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dog3352 no, you're the ignorant one for not bothering to read the link I've sent you where the kanji has different meanings here. How about clicking on that for once and address the argument instead of pretending it doesn't exist, because saying "we're ignorant" isn't enough.

Everything rotates according to his order is the most flowery language for fate hax I've ever seen. The fact he's talking about dictating others and controlling them makes it very clear he's talking about fate hax and not plot hax since he isn't doing any of the blatant showings for plot hax.

wow, congratulations on bringing up a random line I already tackled which debunks plot hax when they literally say it seems to be the stage instead of it being a literal stage. Totally great argument here.
Click to expand...
First you repeat the same argument over and over again...secondly...you call me ignorant and say I'm ignoring the fact that the word "plot" has other meanings...even though I clearly mentioned it in my previous comments ...and thirdly you simply try to gain knowledge about a speech without even having read the chapter...totally distorting the real meaning of Eques' speech...fourth you basically ignore the fact that anyone like me...Eldemade ...or Fixxed...any of us easily have a lot more knowledge of Eques and MGK than you do...and try to distort the character's lines without even knowing what the character is talking about....you can't just say that Eques is mentioning something without knowing... if you don't know what's going on there... don't just try to argue as if you know...don't use your own beliefs about what is happening to refute the speech...
 
Last edited:
Theglassman12 said:
Agree: 8 (Eldemadydityjon, dread, warblecomeback, Gustitalk12, oberon, accelerator, Yopercy, wwereymy235)

Disagree: 14 (Mad dog of Fujiwara, Theglassman12, deonment, Blackcurrant91, Oblivion of the Endless, Regidian, Everything12, Lugh Tuathe De, Zencha9, KntolRicat, Naitodesu, Vietthai96, Shmooply, Catpija)

Neutral: 5 (Overlord THE END, Dereck03, Shadow Somnius, Caduz213, Actuallyspaceman)
Click to expand...
Recount +2 agree, arzzz kinda sus tho, 3 msg’s since jun9th
 
And I don't think I can just close the CRT now, after certain people who disagreed left, we started adding clearer evidence, at least let them have a chance to look at the CRT currently, if they disagree because they don't think they have enough evidence, I can only accept. But I swear if you disagree because the word "plot" has other meanings...my friend...hey I'm going to cry.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
I like how half the comments agreeing aren't even in readable english.
Click to expand...
Right, right, after all, the translation is still "plot", so I'm not sure if that's really important, and as Satoshi said, so far they've never sent a single supporting evidence to prove that by mentioning "plot" Eques was actually mentioning "plan".

And besides, there's no need for that kind of comments.
 
Dog3352 said:
Right, right, after all, the translation is still "plot", so I'm not sure if that's really important, and as Satoshi said, so far they've never sent a single supporting evidence to prove that by mentioning "plot" Eques was actually mentioning "plan".

And besides, there's no need for that kind of comments.
Click to expand...
Can we not act like people who are disagreeing are doing so without any valid reasons? because right now more people disagree then agree so...
 
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