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Upgrade for the Gods ability. Maou Gakuin

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just in case this is up in the air, I've been following the thread and reading the arguments as they have appeared. My opinion is unchanged.

Also stop with the personal attacks. Focus on the arguments not the one making the argument, all of you.
 
I just disagree with Plot hax, overall I feel the arguments for it are decently weak and the counter arguments are pretty strong, nothing more, nothing less.

Causality and probability manip are straightforward, I agree with those.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Fixxed Yes you are interpreting things here, especially when you don't prove your case with evidence to suggest the plot is being warped in a literal sense here. Never said to be just a theatre, literally everything about the theatre description is so metaphorical with no elaboration on it being literal that plot hax ain't happening here. Also that's not how plot hax works here, for an ability as specific as that you'd need actual showings of plot hax happening as it can be interpreted in many other ways.
Click to expand...
No wheres exacly i interpret here??? I just follow everything that write in the novel. Is you and the other guys whose disagree that interpret in here. Metaphor??? So explain nousgalia's case, his situation not even make him need to tell metaphor but he keep saying about the theater things, and arnos him self clarify about the theater. Its very clear means the author want make in his fiction, the world just a theater that follow the script
 
I disagree with plot. I can...kind of see the arguments for agree but I feel for something like "plot manipulation", it should require a more...active or clear cut showing instead of just vague wordings. This is a decent start but it's still lacking anything sufficient enough for me. Basically a "lack of solid proof" than anything debunk worthy.

Maybe I missed something stated but this was just...toxic and tiring to read, everybody needs to chill. And frankly if the plot debate continues, its better to just give a brief summary on the points given because new people are probably going to be deterred from the toxicity displayed by both sides. Again, it was tough for me to see every point for both sides when 90% of the thread was just attacking each other. (I'm currently at work so I can't give any further input until like...my break or lunch)
 

"" All according to Script of the world "

To back it up why script is plot in MGF we have statement from
  • Dilfred Wisest god refers to Order as a play and mortal world as a theater
  • Anos who learned the truth later refers the same thing after many chapters which he doesn't have to do if author really didn't cared about plot manipulation here
  • HFG made the same type of statement before any of these statements comes so which even backs up the fact order being the plot.

When the world borns there will be an order which is not fate don't start with headcanon. Order is set and has only one path where fate is not set and will have different possibilities to choose from. Here its clearly mentioned seed of the will leads the world in one direction which order already set.


"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will.


But here we can literally see that even though there is an order there are infinite possibilities of the future exist. No one can rewrite that order even though you can manipulate fate. So this literally backs up order being the plot which can't be interacted or changed but future can be changed by possibilities



"God is order. The Delegate would be the same being. The many futures that Nafta, the god of the future, sees are structured by that order. No matter how much power he may have, the ordered God cannot overturn the ordered future."



But here we can see EQUES easily rewrote order just like how you can change the plot . Which even backs up our POV for Order being plot. He literally states he is the one who rules the order and completely rewrites the order of the world



"Do you think you have the upper hand? Thy power is swayed and swayed by thy surroundings. It means that you are ruled by order. And it is I who rule that order."

　The magic power gathers in Eques' entire body.

"You take from this three-sided world, the Garden of the Demon King, the order that gives you your power."

　The gears of the assembled gods fill the air with a copper-colored radiance.

"Behold, Foreign object to the world. The wheels of destiny have already begun to turn. No one can escape it. Vertexfenbrem enforces a single destiny upon thee."

　The Wheel of Destiny scatters a brown light.

"Defeat."

　The copper gear is embedded everywhere in the three-sided world.

　In the sky, on the surface of the earth, in cities of ice, in forests, in mountains, everywhere, the wheels of destiny began to turn.

"If you make a single move, the entire three-sided world of the Garden of the Demon King will shatter into fragments, as will the entire order of creation. That is the Destiny that Vertex Fenbrem has just decreed, a Destiny that cannot be escaped and cannot be overturned."

　An foreign order envelops me.


That's not all he was constantly Manipulated order from the beginning of the time


"Kuhaha. You are a dullard. Your gears have the power to turn Destiny. Mainly of despair. It has allowed God to rule, order to be manipulated, and war to ravage the earth. But if you can interfere with despair, you can be interfered with by despair. If you convert it into a quill, it will be powered by despair to rotate. The stronger the despair, the more it will be able to turn the wheel of hope against it."

"He has ruled this world for a long time. He turned the wheels of destiny, governed over order, and forced us to struggle and despair. The world's reason was bent on destruction. Not all. But many of them were the result of his handiwork. This battle, the war of 2,000 years ago, and many other conflicts were caused by the cogs in the wheel of order."


My final Verdict. Order is plot. Fate is specifically different from order throughout the series.

If Anyone who claims order = Fate send the scans because it's you who is claiming that headcanon.

Anyway I don't want to see another one of you claiming fate = order without scans.
 
EldemadeDityjon said:

"" All according to Script of the world "

To back it up why script is plot in MGF we have statement from
  • Dilfred Wisest god refers to Order as a play and mortal world as a theater
  • Anos who learned the truth later refers the same thing after many chapters which he doesn't have to do if author really didn't cared about plot manipulation here
  • HFG made the same type of statement before any of these statements comes so which even backs up the fact order being the plot.

When the world borns there will be an order which is not fate don't start with headcanon. Order is set and has only one path where fate is not set and will have different possibilities to choose from. Here its clearly mentioned seed of the will leads the world in one direction which order already set.


"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will.


But here we can literally see that even though there is an order there are infinite possibilities of the future exist. No one can rewrite that order even though you can manipulate fate. So this literally backs up order being the plot which can't be interacted or changed but future can be changed by possibilities



"God is order. The Delegate would be the same being. The many futures that Nafta, the god of the future, sees are structured by that order. No matter how much power he may have, the ordered God cannot overturn the ordered future."



But here we can see EQUES easily rewrote order just like how you can change the plot . Which even backs up our POV for Order being plot. He literally states he is the one who rules the order and completely rewrites the order of the world



"Do you think you have the upper hand? Thy power is swayed and swayed by thy surroundings. It means that you are ruled by order. And it is I who rule that order."

　The magic power gathers in Eques' entire body.

"You take from this three-sided world, the Garden of the Demon King, the order that gives you your power."

　The gears of the assembled gods fill the air with a copper-colored radiance.

"Behold, Foreign object to the world. The wheels of destiny have already begun to turn. No one can escape it. Vertexfenbrem enforces a single destiny upon thee."

　The Wheel of Destiny scatters a brown light.

"Defeat."

　The copper gear is embedded everywhere in the three-sided world.

　In the sky, on the surface of the earth, in cities of ice, in forests, in mountains, everywhere, the wheels of destiny began to turn.

"If you make a single move, the entire three-sided world of the Garden of the Demon King will shatter into fragments, as will the entire order of creation. That is the Destiny that Vertex Fenbrem has just decreed, a Destiny that cannot be escaped and cannot be overturned."

　An foreign order envelops me.


That's not all he was constantly Manipulated order from the beginning of the time


"Kuhaha. You are a dullard. Your gears have the power to turn Destiny. Mainly of despair. It has allowed God to rule, order to be manipulated, and war to ravage the earth. But if you can interfere with despair, you can be interfered with by despair. If you convert it into a quill, it will be powered by despair to rotate. The stronger the despair, the more it will be able to turn the wheel of hope against it."

"He has ruled this world for a long time. He turned the wheels of destiny, governed over order, and forced us to struggle and despair. The world's reason was bent on destruction. Not all. But many of them were the result of his handiwork. This battle, the war of 2,000 years ago, and many other conflicts were caused by the cogs in the wheel of order."


My final Verdict. Order is plot. Fate is specifically different from order throughout the series.

If Anyone who claims order = Fate send the scans because it's you who is claiming that headcanon.

Anyway I don't want to see another one of you claiming fate = order without scans.
Click to expand...
You can pretend like this is as clear cut as you want to my friend but people disagree.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
You can pretend like this is as clear cut as you want to my friend but people disagree.
Click to expand...
Again next time if you derail this because of your hate for Anos supporters like you said earlier I am gonna report you. Stop derailing. If you don't have anything to contribute here don't even try to reply back.

LMAO i had to clearly write the explanation so that others can understand but here comes the guy who hates the supporters try to disagree with nothing to back his claims.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Dog3352 which you guys have failed to give any solid evidence that this is actual plot hax and not just more fate hax for order, so saying "once it's accepted" means jack shit here since I can easily say "once this is rejected no one's going to agree with this idea". So actually argue about the now, instead of what might happen.
Click to expand...
MehrasJB said:
there is a problem with that because Order (order of order) controls everyother order (which fate is a part of it but not the only thing) so you can't say it's a higher form of fate manip because fate is only part of the orders under the order of order. and the statements in the op back it up a little.
Click to expand...
MehrasJB said:
As i told you if you use that logic with the statements in this thread it is more likely to be plot.

"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will."

Yes I know the plot/Script can mean a lot of things but in this context they mean the "plot" it self. (eques being the will of the world and the order of order controlling/leading every order including fate)
Click to expand...
You can change fate with plot but you can't change plot with fate. And there is already fate in the orders that order of order controls but it's just a small part of it and the character not mentioning fate like he always does and talking about "script/plot" and the theater thing getting stated not just by one person backs this up even more.
 
Lugh_Tuathe_Dé said:
If you're talking about they literally, like literally said the statement "Order=Fate" there isn't, and i meant different by "he's using your own scans against". But imma leave this thread looking how the verse supporters act good luck on getting an admin give input to this. This thread is really toxic especially how you guys act after people just disagreed with you. Anyways goodluck hope it gets accepted for you guys and i'm unfollowing this.
Click to expand...
Dang it, he refuse to disprove him wrong. 🤣
 
Kind of hard to say that the counter arguments in this topic are strong, we have about 3 pages of people just commenting "plot has more than one meaning" without supporting evidence that Eques was talking about "plan" and not really "plot" , I can much better accept someone saying that the evidence is not quite enough, but using 3 spam pages of something that doesn't even have evidence and something else.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Did you bother clicking on the link I sent where the kanji for plot also has "plan and scheme" in it? Because that's my proof that there's multiple meanings, which again goes back to my point. Prove that they literally mean the script/narrative being controlled. Prove to me that the order is treated like an actual storyboard the gods can rewrite on a whim, prove that they can control a literal theater that has some control over the entire world. If you cannot give these blatant examples to prove your point and just keep speculating then this isn't going to be accepted, simple as that.
Click to expand...
1. So you saying order=plan which is complete nonsense.
2. Let's say the theater is just to explain something else and you want a litteral thing that controls the word.

Gears of eques.

"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will."

"Behold, Foreign object to the world. The wheels of destiny have already begun to turn. No one can escape it. Vertexfenbrem enforces a single destiny upon thee."

"He has ruled this world for a long time. He turned the wheels of destiny, governed over order, and forced us to struggle and despair. The world's reason was bent on destruction. Not all. But many of them were the result of his handiwork. This battle, the war of 2,000 years ago, and many other conflicts were caused by the cogs in the wheel of order."

Eques litteraly uses the gears to destroy and change the destination of everything in the world. The fate is getting changed is just a small part of the orders that it controls.
 
Anyone who is saying “Order = Fate" never wanted to understand how the verse actually works.
The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods, keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”, and the same number of gods control them ~ Order definition in our verse. Please read cosmology if you want to know more about it.
Click to expand...
Also, the Author always separates Order and Fate terms in his novel. So whatever he wants to mention fate manipulation or tended to mean it, he always mentions “fate” for that.
 
You guy should just ask other mod to come to see bcz as for now all of this doesn't advance.
 
@EldemadeDityjon that's not how it works here. I'm not proving the negative here, you need to prove the positive, which you failed to do so. It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.

And so far you have 3 staff input, 4 if you include Oblivion being a former staff, and more staff disagrees than agrees, hell none of them agree and are at best neutral to the topic.

And you still refuse to give me examples, give me examples on plot hax happening instead of throwing accusations at me and I might take your argument seriously. If none of you give me any solid evidence that there's actual plot hax happening I will close this thread as nothing news' being brought in. What headcanon? You're doing a shit job of arguing your point here, so actually give me examples instead of quoting random shit that has nothing to do with plot hax?

@WarbleComeBack no, I just like to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Also you literally have not proven it's stated numerous times order and fate aren't the same thing. None of your scans imply that in the slightest. Give an actual text where it says verbatim that order and fate aren't the a

@Dog3352 For a guy who keeps claiming you know more than I do, you sure do a shit job explaining your points. If I apparently know so little, how about you give me proof about the plot hax being legit instead of dodging my question? Because so far none of you guys have addressed my first point. Also I'm not using my own beliefs, I'm using what's the rules on the wiki for what constitutes as plot hax, and as of the requirements for plot hax, this ain't flying one bit. So actually address my point.

@Pain_to12 I'm not Firestorm dude.

@Fixxed no it very does not make it clear that's what he's referring to, especially when he does not elaborate on what he means by the script and theatres, so argument they have plot hax relies on so much headcanon here.

Also just a general reminder, you guys have 2 staff members (3 if you include Oblivion since he was former staff) disagree with this thread, alongside many other folks who actually make a point beyond just saying "I disagree" so I'm giving every supporter here one last chance. Give us the legit showings of plot hax actually happening here, or I will close this thread as it's already been rejected. If you cannot do the bare minimum of proving that order is shown to have an actual script being manipulated or the theaters being literal when it comes to how the world functions and not just a metaphorical explanation for anything, I will close the thread, any more insults I see from this thread I will start reporting, so no jabs, no insults, no nothing.
 
Theglassman12 said:
It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.
Click to expand...
You know this is BS. You are too far gone I guess, you know for an absolute fact that @EldemadeDityjon has worked his ass off on every upgrade no matter big or small. So you saying anyone only wants it because of Drac is defamation. Drac may have been motivation but not the reason behind it, plot manip has been talked about in general discussion thread for a long time. Ofc supporters would have a bias to their verse, if not they wouldn’t be supporters no?
 
Theglassman12 said:
@EldemadeDityjon that's not how it works here. I'm not proving the negative here, you need to prove the positive, which you failed to do so. It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.
Click to expand...
Crazy how you can't give an actual refute now only thing you can call others biased and shut their mouth down. Is this how the wiki works ? Is this how any staffs behaves ? So normal uses can't say anything? Also the link you linked i still don't see how that's biased.

First learn what's bias mean
dictionary.cambridge.org

bias

1. the action of supporting or opposing a particular person or thing in an…
dictionary.cambridge.org dictionary.cambridge.org

I never said we need to wank some ability and get plot manipulation. Do you need me to tag my msg where Fixxed is the one who brought up plot manipulation to discussion thread. Do you need me to tag where I always tried to search for all abilities Verse character can get. So me working hard for my supporting verse is biased? Seriously man this is not how staffs should behave

" some character needs an ability to beat some character" unlike you who haven't given a single Refute to me and ignoring the narrative I never claimed something out of bias. Again show me a screenshot where I said let's wank fate manipulation to plot manipulation.


Theglassman12 said:
And you still refuse to give me examples, give me examples on plot hax happening instead of throwing accusations at me and I might take your argument seriously. If none of you give me any solid evidence that there's actual plot hax happening I will close this thread as nothing news' being brought in. What headcanon? You're doing a shit job of arguing your point here, so actually give me examples instead of quoting random shit that has nothing to do with plot hax?
Click to expand...
EldemadeDityjon said:

"" All according to Script of the world "

To back it up why script is plot in MGF we have statement from
  • Dilfred Wisest god refers to Order as a play and mortal world as a theater
  • Anos who learned the truth later refers the same thing after many chapters which he doesn't have to do if author really didn't cared about plot manipulation here
  • HFG made the same type of statement before any of these statements comes so which even backs up the fact order being the plot.

When the world borns there will be an order which is not fate don't start with headcanon. Order is set and has only one path where fate is not set and will have different possibilities to choose from. Here its clearly mentioned seed of the will leads the world in one direction which order already set.


"There is order in the bubble world, and there are gods. They have the seeds of world will to lead the world in one direction. The seeds of world will is invisible and does not have a clear consciousness. The gods obey it, and each of them acts in a vague way, trying to lead the world to the right order. In most cases, they fail, but in bubbles blessed with the blessing of Silver Sea, a conformist is born."
In the Militia world, the gears of Eques were the seeds of world will.


But here we can literally see that even though there is an order there are infinite possibilities of the future exist. No one can rewrite that order even though you can manipulate fate. So this literally backs up order being the plot which can't be interacted or changed but future can be changed by possibilities



"God is order. The Delegate would be the same being. The many futures that Nafta, the god of the future, sees are structured by that order. No matter how much power he may have, the ordered God cannot overturn the ordered future."



But here we can see EQUES easily rewrote order just like how you can change the plot . Which even backs up our POV for Order being plot. He literally states he is the one who rules the order and completely rewrites the order of the world



"Do you think you have the upper hand? Thy power is swayed and swayed by thy surroundings. It means that you are ruled by order. And it is I who rule that order."

　The magic power gathers in Eques' entire body.

"You take from this three-sided world, the Garden of the Demon King, the order that gives you your power."

　The gears of the assembled gods fill the air with a copper-colored radiance.

"Behold, Foreign object to the world. The wheels of destiny have already begun to turn. No one can escape it. Vertexfenbrem enforces a single destiny upon thee."

　The Wheel of Destiny scatters a brown light.

"Defeat."

　The copper gear is embedded everywhere in the three-sided world.

　In the sky, on the surface of the earth, in cities of ice, in forests, in mountains, everywhere, the wheels of destiny began to turn.

"If you make a single move, the entire three-sided world of the Garden of the Demon King will shatter into fragments, as will the entire order of creation. That is the Destiny that Vertex Fenbrem has just decreed, a Destiny that cannot be escaped and cannot be overturned."

　An foreign order envelops me.


That's not all he was constantly Manipulated order from the beginning of the time


"Kuhaha. You are a dullard. Your gears have the power to turn Destiny. Mainly of despair. It has allowed God to rule, order to be manipulated, and war to ravage the earth. But if you can interfere with despair, you can be interfered with by despair. If you convert it into a quill, it will be powered by despair to rotate. The stronger the despair, the more it will be able to turn the wheel of hope against it."

"He has ruled this world for a long time. He turned the wheels of destiny, governed over order, and forced us to struggle and despair. The world's reason was bent on destruction. Not all. But many of them were the result of his handiwork. This battle, the war of 2,000 years ago, and many other conflicts were caused by the cogs in the wheel of order."


My final Verdict. Order is plot. Fate is specifically different from order throughout the series.

If Anyone who claims order = Fate send the scans because it's you who is claiming that headcanon.

Anyway I don't want to see another one of you claiming fate = order without scans.
Click to expand...
Sure sure it's not appealing to ignorance.
 
Theglassman12 said:
no, I just like to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Also you literally have not proven it's stated numerous times order and fate aren't the same thing. None of your scans imply that in the slightest. Give an actual text where it says verbatim that order and fate aren't the a
Click to expand...
GIVE ME ONE SCAN THAT SAYS ITS THE SAME AS FATE THEN, ignore every quote that @EldemadeDityjon has made, call everyone biased that agrees, don’t give any reason that makes sense if you speak English.

You said that you are using the wiki’s accepted version of plot manip, one of the uses is EMULATING FATE, what does order do? What do you keep comparing it to? Fate manip, you know what emulate means?
 
Theglassman12 said:
@EldemadeDityjon that's not how it works here. I'm not proving the negative here, you need to prove the positive, which you failed to do so. It proves you guys have an actual bias and don't care about the legitimacy of the arguments when you've made it very clear you only want it accepted because of Dracula, which btw is against one of the site rules "Please don't show severe irrational bias". This is peak bias and I'm not counting your votes at all here.

And so far you have 3 staff input, 4 if you include Oblivion being a former staff, and more staff disagrees than agrees, hell none of them agree and are at best neutral to the topic.

And you still refuse to give me examples, give me examples on plot hax happening instead of throwing accusations at me and I might take your argument seriously. If none of you give me any solid evidence that there's actual plot hax happening I will close this thread as nothing news' being brought in. What headcanon? You're doing a shit job of arguing your point here, so actually give me examples instead of quoting random shit that has nothing to do with plot hax?

@WarbleComeBack no, I just like to call out hypocrisy when I see it. Also you literally have not proven it's stated numerous times order and fate aren't the same thing. None of your scans imply that in the slightest. Give an actual text where it says verbatim that order and fate aren't the a

@Dog3352 For a guy who keeps claiming you know more than I do, you sure do a shit job explaining your points. If I apparently know so little, how about you give me proof about the plot hax being legit instead of dodging my question? Because so far none of you guys have addressed my first point. Also I'm not using my own beliefs, I'm using what's the rules on the wiki for what constitutes as plot hax, and as of the requirements for plot hax, this ain't flying one bit. So actually address my point.

@Pain_to12 I'm not Firestorm dude.

@Fixxed no it very does not make it clear that's what he's referring to, especially when he does not elaborate on what he means by the script and theatres, so argument they have plot hax relies on so much headcanon here.

Also just a general reminder, you guys have 2 staff members (3 if you include Oblivion since he was former staff) disagree with this thread, alongside many other folks who actually make a point beyond just saying "I disagree" so I'm giving every supporter here one last chance. Give us the legit showings of plot hax actually happening here, or I will close this thread as it's already been rejected. If you cannot do the bare minimum of proving that order is shown to have an actual script being manipulated or the theaters being literal when it comes to how the world functions and not just a metaphorical explanation for anything, I will close the thread, any more insults I see from this thread I will start reporting, so no jabs, no insults, no nothing.
Click to expand...
Staff saying peoples reasons are shit, how they explain stuff is shit, on more than one different comments, THEN THREATENING TO REPORT PEOPLE. You sir are a joke and should be treated as a joke. Your words at this point mean a little more than nothing at this point in my opinion and my respect for you is nonexistent. Have a good day.
 
I now understand how people feel when joining certain threads

Everyone needs to chill. If there's some sort of hostility, bias, or whatever take it somewhere else. This helps no one and again only makes people want to stay out of it. Right now most staff disagree (and regular users) and the chances of more showing up is small, given how toxic the environment is right now. Just...take a step back, relax yourself. Take a moment to regroup amongst yourselves and see if there's any more evidence that can be presented. Then make a post properly explaining everything in a short summary. While making things clear to newbies (like me) or people who are misunderstanding certain elements.
 
At the very least everyone here should at least know that the order of the Main God is not the order of fate (this order doesn't exist so far), I'm not sure if it's "order of the gears" or something like that, since all your powers are based on that, or if your order is "the will of the world", I believe the first option, the will of the world can see maybe one more of your 6 or 5 titles, anyway, CRT makes more sense when not distorts the word "plot" to "plan", the "wheel of fate" has ceased to be the manipulation of fate since the order literally defines everything in the world, because everything revolves around that order.

"There are no contradictions in my world. Everything is spinning according to the wheels of order."

"If there is an invisible gear in the magical eye implanted in God, it is no exaggeration to say that it constitutes the order of the world. It is this one that defines who conforms and who does not."

The order of Eques constitutes the whole order of the world, and defines what is in conformity and what is not, this seems neither manipulation of destiny nor manipulation of the greater destiny.
 
Dread said:
We never consider order as fate, I am unsure how people even use it as an argument.
Click to expand...
One of the supporters of MG said a feat involving order seemed like fate manip so it’s been nonstop called fate manip in this thread, no hate once again, already went over my thoughts about this in MGGD
 
WarbleComeBack said:
One of the supporters of MG said a feat involving order seemed like fate manip so it’s been nonstop called fate manip in this thread, no hate once again, already went over my thoughts about this in MGGD
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Fate = order is not the same as the order = fate. Did you understand it?
 
Dog3352 said:
At the very least everyone here should at least know that the order of the Main God is not the order of fate (this order doesn't exist so far), I'm not sure if it's "order of the gears" or something like that, since all your powers are based on that, or if your order is "the will of the world", I believe the first option, the will of the world can see maybe one more of your 6 or 5 titles, anyway, CRT makes more sense when not distorts the word "plot" to "plan", the "wheel of fate" has ceased to be the manipulation of fate since the order literally defines everything in the world, because everything revolves around that order.

"There are no contradictions in my world. Everything is spinning according to the wheels of order."

"If there is an invisible gear in the magical eye implanted in God, it is no exaggeration to say that it constitutes the order of the world. It is this one that defines who conforms and who does not."

The order of Eques constitutes the whole order of the world, and defines what is in conformity and what is not, this seems neither manipulation of destiny nor manipulation of the greater destiny.
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The thing is, that by itself have nothing to do with plot manipulation. I know you want to use this as a support argument for the theather thing and the mention of script. But the thing is that the staff doesn't think that the principal argument is enough.


Law manipulation does the thing about what is confirm or not (and it's one of the feat that show that order is law manipulation in first)
 
Regidian said:
The thing is, that by itself have nothing to do with plot manipulation. I know you want to use this as a support argument for the theather thing and the mention of script. But the thing is that the staff doesn't think that the principal argument is enough.


Law manipulation does the thing about what is confirm or not (and it's one of the feat that show that order is law manipulation in first)
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It wasn't exactly that part I wanted you to focus on, but the part where the order of Eques constitutes the order of the world, as this sounds something like the previous quote. And I don't think that's why he has law manipulation.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Fixxed no it very does not make it clear that's what he's referring to, especially when he does not elaborate on what he means by the script and theatres, so argument they have plot hax relies on so much headcanon here.
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Bruh, the author make it clear what he mean when he talking about script thing, all according to the script of the world, he previously mention about theater things and then he mention about the script
 
eliaspower1234 said:
it legit makes sense for order to be plot, well imo

im surprised it needs more proof, well im not familiar with plot manip standards here
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Honestly neither do I, but I saw plot manipulation that looked like fate manipulation, so I thought the order of Eques would have a chance of being.

Furthermore, target manipulation is listed as possible uses :v
 
@WarbleComeBack there's a big difference between having supporters being biased for a verse, and just constantly claiming that your side is right and the other side doesn't know shit. Also I'm not threatening to report you guys for no reason, you're being unnecessarily toxic in this entire thread just because you have some disagreements. You mean every single scan on the OP that heavily implies fate hax? Because that's all the scans I'm referring to here. You can call me a joke all you want, that doesn't change the fact you haven't given me solid evidence for plot hax, so this ain't going by here.

@EldemadeDityjon saying you want an upgrade to happen so you can see a character lose is the definition of bias, if you don't see it that way then we clearly don't use the same definition. Oh great so now you're strawmanning me too, because where did I say you wanted fate hax to be plot hax instead? I never once said that, I said prove that plot hax is being as literal as it possibly can in the context of this verse since it's easily interpreted as fate hax by anyone else. How many times do I have to say that nothing in your scan is remotely related to plot hax? You just keep quoting lines that just says order controls the world, nothing about the script or theatres being literal here.

@Fixxed No he hasn't, you did not answer my first question in the entire thread which was proving all of that was literal and not a metaphor, you keep saying it's legit but you don't give proof it's legit beyond "it's legit cause author said so".

Anyways I do not see why this thread should stay open here given the massive amounts of disagreements with several staff also rejecting the plot hax here. I'm closing this thread, if you want plot hax for this verse, bring some actual scans that answers my question instead of dodging it, because this entire time none of you have remotely bothered to answer my question, which was a red flag from the start.
 
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