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- #401
More like John insulted her brother and she was pissed. Common sense dictates that she'd be upset when you insult her dead brother. I don't see how that's remotely hilarious.Jobbo said:
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UnOrdinary Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
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- #403
Ssomeone understand me. I am not the only one....I can ascend now. ovo
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Nani!!? We have a discussion thread for Unordinary and a verse page!! What other webcomic is here on this site besides the big ones!!ƒöуöуöÑ
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Bro it's pure heat ƒöуöуöÑ
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The thing about John is he knows he's wrong. That's why he did his best to avoid using his powers for two years. He was just pushed to the point where he couldn't stand it anymore.
These other guys actually seriously think of themselves as good guys and moral arbiters. That's why I want John to beat them down.
This is basically like someone who hangs out with slaveowners talking down to a slave who decided to rebel.
Also, the only reason Remi even bothered to talk to John was because he was too strong. She was ready to just beat him up right away otherwise.
These other guys actually seriously think of themselves as good guys and moral arbiters. That's why I want John to beat them down.
This is basically like someone who hangs out with slaveowners talking down to a slave who decided to rebel.
Also, the only reason Remi even bothered to talk to John was because he was too strong. She was ready to just beat him up right away otherwise.
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"The thing about John is he knows he's wrong. That's why he did his best to avoid using his powers for two years. He was just pushed to the point where he couldn't stand it anymore."
He's still making the conscious decision to perform these actions. Him knowing it's wrong only makes it worse. Especially when there are people he could have talked to. People seem to ignore this option. And let's not forget that Sera noted that there were nice high tiers when she was talking to him as he moved into the dorms.
"These other guys actually seriously think of themselves as good guys and moral arbiters. That's why I want John to beat them down."
Yet one cannot hope the same for John? He literally had the chance to talk then (a better option), yet he chose to be aggressive to the person who likely would've listened if he didn't just yell at her. Better yet a person who blatantly tried to help him earlier in the series. Who he proceeded to curse out in which lead to Blyke attacking him. People seem to flat out ignoring this sequence of events. Mentality or not, that is still John's fault.
"This is basically like someone who hangs out with slaveowners talking down to a slave who decided to rebel."
What? That is not a good analogy. If you logic is, if you hang around this crowd, you become like this crowd, then it does not work at all seeing as John hangs out with none of these guys.
"Also, the only reason Remi even bothered to talk to John was because he was too strong. She was ready to just beat him up right away otherwise."
She knew he was strong when she wanted to team up against him. You know, the guy who was flat out attacking every high tier and her two friends. She then wanted to talk to him as for her somethings did not add up.
He's still making the conscious decision to perform these actions. Him knowing it's wrong only makes it worse. Especially when there are people he could have talked to. People seem to ignore this option. And let's not forget that Sera noted that there were nice high tiers when she was talking to him as he moved into the dorms.
"These other guys actually seriously think of themselves as good guys and moral arbiters. That's why I want John to beat them down."
Yet one cannot hope the same for John? He literally had the chance to talk then (a better option), yet he chose to be aggressive to the person who likely would've listened if he didn't just yell at her. Better yet a person who blatantly tried to help him earlier in the series. Who he proceeded to curse out in which lead to Blyke attacking him. People seem to flat out ignoring this sequence of events. Mentality or not, that is still John's fault.
"This is basically like someone who hangs out with slaveowners talking down to a slave who decided to rebel."
What? That is not a good analogy. If you logic is, if you hang around this crowd, you become like this crowd, then it does not work at all seeing as John hangs out with none of these guys.
"Also, the only reason Remi even bothered to talk to John was because he was too strong. She was ready to just beat him up right away otherwise."
She knew he was strong when she wanted to team up against him. You know, the guy who was flat out attacking every high tier and her two friends. She then wanted to talk to him as for her somethings did not add up.
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Aura manipulation is interesting also
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I was referring to Remi with the slaveowner thing. Considering her company and her position at school she's basically complicit in everything that's going on.
Also, John had no reason to talk to Remi nor trust her or any of her pals considering their track record. What could she even do, anyway? Arlo's above her, after all.
Talking would achieve nothing, as if anyone there gives a damn what a cripple has to say. He needs his fists to make the school understand. He's actually doing the appropriate thing here, beating the crap out of people weaker than you is how this society operates. Gotta laugh at how the high tiers are freaking out at someone doing to them what they've been doing to everyone else for ages.
Also, John had no reason to talk to Remi nor trust her or any of her pals considering their track record. What could she even do, anyway? Arlo's above her, after all.
Talking would achieve nothing, as if anyone there gives a damn what a cripple has to say. He needs his fists to make the school understand. He's actually doing the appropriate thing here, beating the crap out of people weaker than you is how this society operates. Gotta laugh at how the high tiers are freaking out at someone doing to them what they've been doing to everyone else for ages.
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"I was referring to Remi with the slaveowner thing. Considering her company and her position at school she's basically complicit in everything that's going on."
Yes, Remi is certainly involved with the violence at the school. She does not join in with others to beat up low tiers. Only one in her main company that she knows, goes around to harm low tiers is Arlo (which he really doesn't do. He doesn't go out of his way just beat up every low tier. And then there is Isen, who doesn't do so and only did so to John. And Remi doesn't even know that happened. Otherwise they use their powers to break up fights).
"Also, John had no reason to talk to Remi nor trust her or any of her pals considering their track record. What could she even do, anyway? Arlo's above her, after all."
What track record? Remi has never done anything negative to anyone. Blyke only attacked him once when he cursed out Remi when she helped him. Hell, Blyke has stopped more fights involving John and has tried to befriend him while he considered a cripple and even tried to reassure him when he didn't know Joker was John. Not to mention Sera herself recommended Blyke and I would have to reread, but I believe Remi.
"Talking would achieve nothing, as if anyone there gives a damn what a cripple has to say. "
So the girl who tried to help him and the guy who tried to befriend him wouldn't listen to him.
" He's actually doing the appropriate thing here, beating the crap out of people weaker than you is how this society operates."
And just like we dislike it for others, we should dislike it for him to stoop that low. This is a blatant double standard. For someone who wants to change society, he sure is acting like nearly everyone else which is counter intuitive.
"Gotta laugh at how the high tiers are freaking out at someone doing to them what they've been doing to everyone else for ages."
When has Remi or Blyke just randomly started beating up low tiers? You are generalizing everyone under an umbrella and not the specific characters.
Yes, Remi is certainly involved with the violence at the school. She does not join in with others to beat up low tiers. Only one in her main company that she knows, goes around to harm low tiers is Arlo (which he really doesn't do. He doesn't go out of his way just beat up every low tier. And then there is Isen, who doesn't do so and only did so to John. And Remi doesn't even know that happened. Otherwise they use their powers to break up fights).
"Also, John had no reason to talk to Remi nor trust her or any of her pals considering their track record. What could she even do, anyway? Arlo's above her, after all."
What track record? Remi has never done anything negative to anyone. Blyke only attacked him once when he cursed out Remi when she helped him. Hell, Blyke has stopped more fights involving John and has tried to befriend him while he considered a cripple and even tried to reassure him when he didn't know Joker was John. Not to mention Sera herself recommended Blyke and I would have to reread, but I believe Remi.
"Talking would achieve nothing, as if anyone there gives a damn what a cripple has to say. "
So the girl who tried to help him and the guy who tried to befriend him wouldn't listen to him.
" He's actually doing the appropriate thing here, beating the crap out of people weaker than you is how this society operates."
And just like we dislike it for others, we should dislike it for him to stoop that low. This is a blatant double standard. For someone who wants to change society, he sure is acting like nearly everyone else which is counter intuitive.
"Gotta laugh at how the high tiers are freaking out at someone doing to them what they've been doing to everyone else for ages."
When has Remi or Blyke just randomly started beating up low tiers? You are generalizing everyone under an umbrella and not the specific characters.
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For the record, I never justified what John did. Yes at times it got satisfying for me, but I always knew what he did was morally wrong and never tried to defend him. But after hearing that John mocked her brother, that got me mad.
It was no longer satisfying, no longer a guilty pleasure I had. It's not only because it's the same level of douchieness as Logan Paul disrespecting a dead body, but in a way he is also making a mockery of his father. Remi's brother lived off of his dad's ideal. Helping the little guys despite having the power not to. And for John to mock his death which involved him fighting criminals just like how the character did in his book, is essentially him spitting at his father and what he believed in.
It was no longer satisfying, no longer a guilty pleasure I had. It's not only because it's the same level of douchieness as Logan Paul disrespecting a dead body, but in a way he is also making a mockery of his father. Remi's brother lived off of his dad's ideal. Helping the little guys despite having the power not to. And for John to mock his death which involved him fighting criminals just like how the character did in his book, is essentially him spitting at his father and what he believed in.
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John isn't aware that her brother is dead and that Rei was a superhero because of UnOrdinary, but i don't think he would care.
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John is definitely level 12 or 13
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John already had trust issues from being betrayed at his old school, although that one was probably his own fault. On top of that Isen pretended to be nice and deceived him as well. It's not like he had any good experiences with high tiers at all, even Sera was terrible to him before she abandoned the hierarchy. Not a stretch to assume Blyke and Remi were pricks just like Isen.
Arlo helped him and befriended him too and then betrayed him right away. Why would he trust Blyke and Remi when their pals Arlo and Isen seemed nice too only to backstab him?
Also, the reason it's satisfying when John does it to others is because it's retaliation. They're facing the consequences of their own system. I also like seeing those at the top get a dose of reality. Sera was treating his situation like a joke at the start, it was nice to see her learn a thing or two about being weak at that warehouse. Now the others just need to learn the same lesson and John's teaching it to them.
Anyway, Blyke is probably the best of the current lot since he's not a terrible guy and unlike Remi he doesn't pretend to be some hero of justice. That's why I said a while back I hope Remi gets it worse than him since he deserved his beating the least.
Arlo helped him and befriended him too and then betrayed him right away. Why would he trust Blyke and Remi when their pals Arlo and Isen seemed nice too only to backstab him?
Also, the reason it's satisfying when John does it to others is because it's retaliation. They're facing the consequences of their own system. I also like seeing those at the top get a dose of reality. Sera was treating his situation like a joke at the start, it was nice to see her learn a thing or two about being weak at that warehouse. Now the others just need to learn the same lesson and John's teaching it to them.
Anyway, Blyke is probably the best of the current lot since he's not a terrible guy and unlike Remi he doesn't pretend to be some hero of justice. That's why I said a while back I hope Remi gets it worse than him since he deserved his beating the least.
John is probably weaker than Sera since he was ranked below her in the school top 10, so he should be below 8.AstralKing7 said:
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In the school top 10??? I'm confused. Top 10 what because wasn't that before Johns power was revlewsed and stuff.
Arlo is an 8 himself and John stomped him.
Arlo is currently an 8 rn matter of fact. In middle school John was a 7.7 right. There is no way John is an 8.
Yeah Arlie was definitely the last breaking point tha tpushed John to change back. John was already having issues trying to be passive but after the events with Arlo he jsut couldn't help it anymore with the fact that Sera wasn't there to comfort him anymore
Arlo is an 8 himself and John stomped him.
Arlo is currently an 8 rn matter of fact. In middle school John was a 7.7 right. There is no way John is an 8.
Yeah Arlie was definitely the last breaking point tha tpushed John to change back. John was already having issues trying to be passive but after the events with Arlo he jsut couldn't help it anymore with the fact that Sera wasn't there to comfort him anymore
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NAni!!!!? Arlo fodder ƒÿôƒÿôƒÿô
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im just imagining middle school John beating up pre humbled Arlo and its hilarious
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Wait was Sera the 8?
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"John already had trust issues from being betrayed at his old school, although that one was probably his own fault. On top of that Isen pretended to be nice and deceived him as well. It's not like he had any good experiences with high tiers at all, even Sera was terrible to him before she abandoned the hierarchy. Not a stretch to assume Blyke and Remi were pricks just like Isen."
That's not a good excuse to justify his actions. The fact that he befriended Sera alone would prove that not all high tiers are beyond talking to. And once again, the fact that Sera herself recommended certain high tiers to him should in fact make him more willing to talk with certain people. Especially seeing as Blyke nor Remi had any idea of what was going on between John, Isen or Arlo as Remi was investigating her brother's death and it's implied that Isen and Arlo don't really tell Blyke much do to his ability to keep a secret being shit.
"Arlo helped him and befriended him too and then betrayed him right away. Why would he trust Blyke and Remi when their pals Arlo and Isen seemed nice too only to backstab him?"
This is a blatant fallacious argument, i.e an Association Fallacy or more specifically Guilt by Association. And once again, when your best friend recommends certain people to you, then I would think they have more of a likelyhood of being more trustworthy. Hell, you don't have to fully trust them, you can still be wary of someone, but not be a total prick.
"Also, the reason it's satisfying when John does it to others is because it's retaliation. They're facing the consequences of their own system."
A system John himself fell in line with? Retaliation doesn't make it any less of a double standard. I vehemently disagree with John going after people who have done jackshit to him being satisfying.
"I also like seeing those at the top get a dose of reality. Sera was treating his situation like a joke at the start, it was nice to see her learn a thing or two about being weak at that warehouse. Now the others just need to learn the same lesson and John's teaching it to them."
There are more ways to teach a lesson. The idea that you need to be brutally beaten to learn a lesson is dumb to be blunt. This comes from the mindset that there can never be a discussion. There is this mindset that John being violent is the only way this will work when this will only make shit worse. John gives them a taste of their own medicine (two of which have done nothing to him) and then what? You assume they'll change? No, this will simply end up causing a similar mess to what is going on now. Oh boy, he beat up our high tiers. This stops nothing, just adds to the problem.
"unlike Remi he doesn't pretend to be some hero of justice. That's why I said a while back I hope Remi gets it worse than him since he deserved his beating the least."
While I usually respect opinions, this is really bad and damaging reasoning and logic that I cannot agree with. Yeah, **** this girl who is trying to figure out whose killing the heroes who defy the system. **** this girl who was actively trying to find the person who stole Sera's powers and while not perfect, has shown to be equally kind to everyone. But, just because she's trying to be a hero and may have missed the issues in her own school due to her being obsessed that her brother was brutally murdered, she deserves a beatdown. But only the mental context of what John is doing matters. If they deserve to be humbled, so does John as now he's taking his anger out on people who have done nothing to him. Remi in fact tried to help him on one occasion. You put everyone in this bubble of "they are all part of this hierarchy" without thinking of each individual person involves. It's literally like a person deciding to murder an entire family because a few members of the family wronged him. Once again, Association Fallacy. And once again, I van guarantee it if this was John, no one would care that he was acting like a hero. Note, I am all for people like Isen and Arlo getting what they deserve, but my issue is this entire Remi and Blyke situation.
That's not a good excuse to justify his actions. The fact that he befriended Sera alone would prove that not all high tiers are beyond talking to. And once again, the fact that Sera herself recommended certain high tiers to him should in fact make him more willing to talk with certain people. Especially seeing as Blyke nor Remi had any idea of what was going on between John, Isen or Arlo as Remi was investigating her brother's death and it's implied that Isen and Arlo don't really tell Blyke much do to his ability to keep a secret being shit.
"Arlo helped him and befriended him too and then betrayed him right away. Why would he trust Blyke and Remi when their pals Arlo and Isen seemed nice too only to backstab him?"
This is a blatant fallacious argument, i.e an Association Fallacy or more specifically Guilt by Association. And once again, when your best friend recommends certain people to you, then I would think they have more of a likelyhood of being more trustworthy. Hell, you don't have to fully trust them, you can still be wary of someone, but not be a total prick.
"Also, the reason it's satisfying when John does it to others is because it's retaliation. They're facing the consequences of their own system."
A system John himself fell in line with? Retaliation doesn't make it any less of a double standard. I vehemently disagree with John going after people who have done jackshit to him being satisfying.
"I also like seeing those at the top get a dose of reality. Sera was treating his situation like a joke at the start, it was nice to see her learn a thing or two about being weak at that warehouse. Now the others just need to learn the same lesson and John's teaching it to them."
There are more ways to teach a lesson. The idea that you need to be brutally beaten to learn a lesson is dumb to be blunt. This comes from the mindset that there can never be a discussion. There is this mindset that John being violent is the only way this will work when this will only make shit worse. John gives them a taste of their own medicine (two of which have done nothing to him) and then what? You assume they'll change? No, this will simply end up causing a similar mess to what is going on now. Oh boy, he beat up our high tiers. This stops nothing, just adds to the problem.
"unlike Remi he doesn't pretend to be some hero of justice. That's why I said a while back I hope Remi gets it worse than him since he deserved his beating the least."
While I usually respect opinions, this is really bad and damaging reasoning and logic that I cannot agree with. Yeah, **** this girl who is trying to figure out whose killing the heroes who defy the system. **** this girl who was actively trying to find the person who stole Sera's powers and while not perfect, has shown to be equally kind to everyone. But, just because she's trying to be a hero and may have missed the issues in her own school due to her being obsessed that her brother was brutally murdered, she deserves a beatdown. But only the mental context of what John is doing matters. If they deserve to be humbled, so does John as now he's taking his anger out on people who have done nothing to him. Remi in fact tried to help him on one occasion. You put everyone in this bubble of "they are all part of this hierarchy" without thinking of each individual person involves. It's literally like a person deciding to murder an entire family because a few members of the family wronged him. Once again, Association Fallacy. And once again, I van guarantee it if this was John, no one would care that he was acting like a hero. Note, I am all for people like Isen and Arlo getting what they deserve, but my issue is this entire Remi and Blyke situation.
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Using Association Fallacy as a counter against John isn't a good argument....since people do that all the time. It IS a fallacy but it's a fallacy that is done by most people. I can't blame John for having no trust towards other high tiers or really anyone. John is damaged and hurt. I sympathy with John and feel bad for him the most since at this point no one else has gotten it worse than him, even those he's hurt haven't gotten it as bad as him.
This doesn't mean I like what John is doing, I just understand that in a society driven by superiority no one is going to listen to the one at the bottom of the food chain and that is a fact that has been proven over and over again in the series. This is not our world it's theirs and it operates differently. That's what this all comes down to.
John was forced into this situation and is getting carried away but I am seeing good results because of his actions. John is not being a good person but he is being someone that good will come from and that's what I like. Actual progression. John being this way makes others reflect on their actions. The high tiers reflect on their actions. This is fundamentally what is needed.
Progress tends to happen after something bad happens. Slavery lead to human right's discussions, the Holocaust lead to a massive decrease of genocide by race (large scale anyway), school shootings lead to gun rights reform and discussion (or even discussion about mental health), the gay night club shooting in Florida lead to more openness towards gay pride.
It's NOT a good thing what John is doing but what John is doing is what is best for the school.
This doesn't mean I like what John is doing, I just understand that in a society driven by superiority no one is going to listen to the one at the bottom of the food chain and that is a fact that has been proven over and over again in the series. This is not our world it's theirs and it operates differently. That's what this all comes down to.
John was forced into this situation and is getting carried away but I am seeing good results because of his actions. John is not being a good person but he is being someone that good will come from and that's what I like. Actual progression. John being this way makes others reflect on their actions. The high tiers reflect on their actions. This is fundamentally what is needed.
Progress tends to happen after something bad happens. Slavery lead to human right's discussions, the Holocaust lead to a massive decrease of genocide by race (large scale anyway), school shootings lead to gun rights reform and discussion (or even discussion about mental health), the gay night club shooting in Florida lead to more openness towards gay pride.
It's NOT a good thing what John is doing but what John is doing is what is best for the school.
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What John is doing is not even close to what is best for the school.
Even if he breaks the current system, he is doing nothing but that. He's not replacing it with anything better. At best, he'll create anarchy. It'll be different to the heirarchy, but just as bad.
Even if he breaks the current system, he is doing nothing but that. He's not replacing it with anything better. At best, he'll create anarchy. It'll be different to the heirarchy, but just as bad.
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wrong john is at least 9,5 do u really think a late bloomer with ability power 7 (at the start) didn't grow by at least 1 tier when arlo and blyke and every high schooler with higher potential grow by at least 1,5 in a year?! naive way of thinking joh is way above sra. there is no arguing about it just wait till they show his power level at 10 x)
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why yall hating on john because he want to beat some fuc**rs ass? (except remy but she is naive and she has no awearness of the situation that is going on in school) john characters is much more interesting than your average protagonist, when john was humiliated and beaten by high to low tiers yall wanted him to do something and now because he stand up and want them to fear him yall hating on him? don't tell me that yall who hating on him would sit down and do nothing if u were in his situation don't act like an inoccent child and look at it from the his view. everyone loved Kira who killed ppl and was ready to kill everyone just so he can be a god of his new world but why yall hating john just because he is beating some shit ass kids that deserve to be beaten? and yall are triggered about it....
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From John's perspective there's hardly anything to gain and everything to lose from trusting those guys. You can tell a black guy there's some decent fellows in the KKK but it'd be perfectly reasonable not to get involved.
It's good because John is acting according to the system. Until now it was all muh order, muh hierarchy and now they don't want him to do what they wanted all along.
Sera at least needed to experience it before she learned. Even after losing her powers she wasn't really taking things very seriously until that happened. That primal fear is something you can only experience that way.
That excuse doesn't work since Rei only died like two months ago, she had nothing affecting her before that. The only reason she even bothered to become a superhero was to avenge him, before that she was perfectly content to play around in her naive little world while people around her suffered.
It's good because John is acting according to the system. Until now it was all muh order, muh hierarchy and now they don't want him to do what they wanted all along.
Sera at least needed to experience it before she learned. Even after losing her powers she wasn't really taking things very seriously until that happened. That primal fear is something you can only experience that way.
That excuse doesn't work since Rei only died like two months ago, she had nothing affecting her before that. The only reason she even bothered to become a superhero was to avenge him, before that she was perfectly content to play around in her naive little world while people around her suffered.
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Hoooooollllyyyy shit is that the most inaccurate exagerated comparison I've seen in a long time.Jobbo said:
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And so this means she somehow deserves to get beaten up, despite the fact that she didn't actually ever directly do anything to anyone, and began trying to do something once it was brought to her attention?Jobbo said:
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"Even if he breaks the current system, he is doing nothing but that. He's not replacing it with anything better. At best, he'll create anarchy. It'll be different to the heirarchy, but just as bad."
I don't believe anarchy would ensue at all. If anything the fact that everyone is united against Joker would ensure that everyone would stick together against him just like how it happened at John's old school. Everyone UNITED against John.
I'm just going to wait till John ends up on top to see what he's been planning after beating all the high tiers and sitting on top. He won't go dictator or anything since he doesn't want that. If anything I think he might just bring the high tiers down to the lower tiers' level as pay back of sorts.
Regardless if John loses then Arlo will likely revise the system and make it better now because of John. Meaning what John did lead to something good.
I don't believe anarchy would ensue at all. If anything the fact that everyone is united against Joker would ensure that everyone would stick together against him just like how it happened at John's old school. Everyone UNITED against John.
I'm just going to wait till John ends up on top to see what he's been planning after beating all the high tiers and sitting on top. He won't go dictator or anything since he doesn't want that. If anything I think he might just bring the high tiers down to the lower tiers' level as pay back of sorts.
Regardless if John loses then Arlo will likely revise the system and make it better now because of John. Meaning what John did lead to something good.
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World War 2 led to something good.Nico-v11 said:
It was definitely not a good thing in and of itself.
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Note: This comment addresses argument from 3 different people. So heads up.
"Using Association Fallacy as a counter against John isn't a good argument....since people do that all the time. It IS a fallacy but it's a fallacy that is done by most people. I can't blame John for having no trust towards other high tiers or really anyone. John is damaged and hurt. I sympathy with John and feel bad for him the most since at this point no one else has gotten it worse than him, even those he's hurt haven't gotten it as bad as him."
The Association Fallacy was more towards Jobbo's comment. But even then, your argument itself would still be fallacious. Just because everyone does it still doesn't make it right, it's still a flaw that can be criticized in this scenario. Fallacious reasoning no matter what is fallacious reasoning. Even if we as humans do it. We are fallacious and hypocritical beings. This doesn't mean those fallacious and hypocritical moments cannot be called out for what they are and are suddenly any less of an argument. Don't think I don't understand John as a character, I fully do, doesn't mean I believe this is a good excuse when there were pieces set in place for another option, yet were all destroyed.
"Progress tends to happen after something bad happens. Slavery lead to human right's discussions, the Holocaust lead to a massive decrease of genocide by race (large scale anyway), school shootings lead to gun rights reform and discussion (or even discussion about mental health), the gay night club shooting in Florida lead to more openness towards gay pride."
That doesn't mean that this situation couldn't have been solved other ways. Not to mention, when you see people going through those event, the idea of something changing is not what you think. Nor can you guarantee something will change. In this case, even if this lead to something good, i.e Arlo changing, I still heavily disagree with the means here. The ends are good (hopefully), the means aren't. That's the issue, I heavily disagree with the means.
"why yall hating on john because he want to beat some fuc**rs ass? (except remy but she is naive and she has no awearness of the situation that is going on in school) john characters is much more interesting than your average protagonist,"
Good to know you haven't read our arguments. We are upset that he's gone after people who haven't done anything to him (and it also pisses me off that John has not seen the issue with him treating Blyke like an asshole when that situation was his fault). Being more interesting doesn't mean he can't be criticized as a character. Or are we just supposed to just blindly overlook flaws?
"when john was humiliated and beaten by high to low tiers yall wanted him to do something and now because he stand up and want them to fear him yall hating on him?"
I love how you put words into people's mouths. I also love how you somehow correlate "stand up for yourself" to "brutalize everyone, even when they've done nothing to you". The two things do not correlate.
"don't tell me that yall who hating on him would sit down and do nothing if u were in his situation don't act like an inoccent child and look at it from the his view."
Refer to my post above. No one has an issue standing up for himself, but what he's doing now is far beyond that.
"everyone loved Kira who killed ppl and was ready to kill everyone just so he can be a god of his new world"
Putting words into people's mouths once again and assuming what people like and don't like. It's honestly funny you say that as I despise Kira as a character and he is the one who kept me from finishing Death Note as a whole. So, pretty terrible argument here
"but why yall hating john just because he is beating some shit ass kids that deserve to be beaten? and yall are triggered about it...."
Okay, let me dispel this myth. Criticizing a character =/= hating on them. Like, I despise the "you're just hating on them" argument as it is a blatant means to deflect criticism, stop it. Also, beating the ones who wronged him? I'm all for. I didn't give a shit about him doing what he did to those who basically tortured Sera, nor what he did to Arlo. Hell, only reason I was upset at the Isen fight was due to the fact that at the time he was actively trying to find Sera. Even then, he still deserved what happened. Now tell me, what has Blyke or Remi done?
"It's good because John is acting according to the system. Until now it was all muh order, muh hierarchy and now they don't want him to do what they wanted all along."
Yes, they totally wanted him to brutalize every high tier and not take his mantle over Arlo for beating him. Matter of fact, it's only 2 people who wanted this, Arlo and Cecile.
"before that she was perfectly content to play around in her naive little world while people around her suffered."
Monarch addressed this, but I also want to add that we have no idea what Remi was doing beforehand. While we can tell she hadn't made that much of a headway in the school and...ok look, let's get one thing straight. You can't see everything. Yeah, they could be doing their damn job better, however assuming a High Tier is going to see everything or hear about everything is very flawed.
"Using Association Fallacy as a counter against John isn't a good argument....since people do that all the time. It IS a fallacy but it's a fallacy that is done by most people. I can't blame John for having no trust towards other high tiers or really anyone. John is damaged and hurt. I sympathy with John and feel bad for him the most since at this point no one else has gotten it worse than him, even those he's hurt haven't gotten it as bad as him."
The Association Fallacy was more towards Jobbo's comment. But even then, your argument itself would still be fallacious. Just because everyone does it still doesn't make it right, it's still a flaw that can be criticized in this scenario. Fallacious reasoning no matter what is fallacious reasoning. Even if we as humans do it. We are fallacious and hypocritical beings. This doesn't mean those fallacious and hypocritical moments cannot be called out for what they are and are suddenly any less of an argument. Don't think I don't understand John as a character, I fully do, doesn't mean I believe this is a good excuse when there were pieces set in place for another option, yet were all destroyed.
"Progress tends to happen after something bad happens. Slavery lead to human right's discussions, the Holocaust lead to a massive decrease of genocide by race (large scale anyway), school shootings lead to gun rights reform and discussion (or even discussion about mental health), the gay night club shooting in Florida lead to more openness towards gay pride."
That doesn't mean that this situation couldn't have been solved other ways. Not to mention, when you see people going through those event, the idea of something changing is not what you think. Nor can you guarantee something will change. In this case, even if this lead to something good, i.e Arlo changing, I still heavily disagree with the means here. The ends are good (hopefully), the means aren't. That's the issue, I heavily disagree with the means.
"why yall hating on john because he want to beat some fuc**rs ass? (except remy but she is naive and she has no awearness of the situation that is going on in school) john characters is much more interesting than your average protagonist,"
Good to know you haven't read our arguments. We are upset that he's gone after people who haven't done anything to him (and it also pisses me off that John has not seen the issue with him treating Blyke like an asshole when that situation was his fault). Being more interesting doesn't mean he can't be criticized as a character. Or are we just supposed to just blindly overlook flaws?
"when john was humiliated and beaten by high to low tiers yall wanted him to do something and now because he stand up and want them to fear him yall hating on him?"
I love how you put words into people's mouths. I also love how you somehow correlate "stand up for yourself" to "brutalize everyone, even when they've done nothing to you". The two things do not correlate.
"don't tell me that yall who hating on him would sit down and do nothing if u were in his situation don't act like an inoccent child and look at it from the his view."
Refer to my post above. No one has an issue standing up for himself, but what he's doing now is far beyond that.
"everyone loved Kira who killed ppl and was ready to kill everyone just so he can be a god of his new world"
Putting words into people's mouths once again and assuming what people like and don't like. It's honestly funny you say that as I despise Kira as a character and he is the one who kept me from finishing Death Note as a whole. So, pretty terrible argument here
"but why yall hating john just because he is beating some shit ass kids that deserve to be beaten? and yall are triggered about it...."
Okay, let me dispel this myth. Criticizing a character =/= hating on them. Like, I despise the "you're just hating on them" argument as it is a blatant means to deflect criticism, stop it. Also, beating the ones who wronged him? I'm all for. I didn't give a shit about him doing what he did to those who basically tortured Sera, nor what he did to Arlo. Hell, only reason I was upset at the Isen fight was due to the fact that at the time he was actively trying to find Sera. Even then, he still deserved what happened. Now tell me, what has Blyke or Remi done?
"It's good because John is acting according to the system. Until now it was all muh order, muh hierarchy and now they don't want him to do what they wanted all along."
Yes, they totally wanted him to brutalize every high tier and not take his mantle over Arlo for beating him. Matter of fact, it's only 2 people who wanted this, Arlo and Cecile.
"before that she was perfectly content to play around in her naive little world while people around her suffered."
Monarch addressed this, but I also want to add that we have no idea what Remi was doing beforehand. While we can tell she hadn't made that much of a headway in the school and...ok look, let's get one thing straight. You can't see everything. Yeah, they could be doing their damn job better, however assuming a High Tier is going to see everything or hear about everything is very flawed.
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