• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

UnOrdinary Discussion Thread

Remi herself beat the crap out of Cecile to get her position. Arlo was obliterating people left and right when he became king. Even Rei used violence on those who didn't listen to him.

John pummeling those who oppose him is no different from the actions of Remi herself and those she admires, really.

And also, Remi deserved it the moment she took the position of queen and yet still thought of herself as a good guy and a hero. She only tried to help John because he was Sera's friend.
 
"Remi herself beat the crap out of Cecile to get her position. Arlo was obliterating people left and right when he became king. Even Rei used violence on those who didn't listen to him."

Once again, there is a stark difference between "fighting to get a position" to "brutalizing everyone" Like, do you understand that there is a difference here? Fighting to go up the hierarchy and brutalizing are two different things.

"John pummeling those who oppose him is no different from the actions of Remi herself and those she admires, really."

Refer to my post above.

"And also, Remi deserved it the moment she took the position of queen and yet still thought of herself as a good guy and a hero. She only tried to help John because he was Sera's friend."

This is dumb logic to be blunt and is rather extreme...So raising your rank to get as much influence as you can suddenly means you cannot be a good guy or hero? What logic is this? Also, where was this stated that this was the only reason? Are you getting that because she possibly said "that's Sera's friend!"? If so, that's a massive leap in logic and assuming intent.
 
Arlo and Rei were already kings when they were annihilating their opposers. Also, fighting to protest injustice is actually more morally just than doing it just to advance your own position so if they were just doing it for position John would actually be better than them.

Rising to the top and then not paying attention at all to your subjects means you can't be a good guy and a hero. If you can't be bothered to be responsible don't take the position.
 
"Arlo and Rei were already kings when they were annihilating their opposers. Also, fighting to protest injustice is actually more morally just than doing it just to advance your own position so if they were just doing it for position John would actually be better than them."

You completely ignored my point. The issue is the brutalization, not simpl fighting and defeating opposers in battle. So fighting for a position so that they can increase how much influence their word has is morally worse than what John is doing. Apparently brutalizing opponents and people who have nothing to do with your troubles is morally better than simply defeating a high tier in a fight. If John was simply knocking them out, then I would not be upset. However, the issue is that John goes too far in his fights and proceeds to brutalize opponents. Yeah, there is a stark difference and more to it than what you say.

"Rising to the top and then not paying attention at all to your subjects means you can't be a good guy and a hero. If you can't be bothered to be responsible don't take the position."

That is objectively false. Even the best of heroes are not omnipotent beings who know everything. This is blatantly expecting the impossible. You cannot expect one person to be everywhere at every time and to know everything. Like, do you realize what you are implying?
 
It won't be as effective if he lets them off with light beatings. In order to truly win their fear this is necessary.

It's nothing close to omniscience. Just a little situational awareness. Arlo, being someone who actually pays attention, knew about such things. Even Blyke connected the dots pretty quickly though he probably doesn't realize the full extent. Remi is the only one in her circle who didn't know. She'd rather fight over cake and hang out at the mall than actually do her job.
 
"It won't be as effective if he lets them off with light beatings. In order to truly win their fear this is necessary."

You mean, knocking them out? No, you could still get the effect once he takes control the normal. Brutalizing someone is not needed here at all. It literally affects nothing. Also, striking fear into people is totally morally right. And you totally can't strike fear into someone just by simply beating them in a fight. The fact of the matter is that John is taking these fights too far. And is doing so to people who while High tier, have not harmed him, outside of something that was his fault.

"It's nothing close to omniscience. Just a little situational awareness. Arlo, being someone who actually pays attention, knew about such things. Even Blyke connected the dots pretty quickly though he probably doesn't realize the full extent. Remi is the only one in her circle who didn't know. She'd rather fight over cake and hang out at the mall than actually do her job."

I love this point. Like, so just because she doesn't worry about the school 24/7, she's a bad hero. God forbid she has a life outside of the school. Like, you understand the issues with this logic right? You expect her to be perfectly vigilant, and especially with recent events, she is especially disconnected due to her brother's case and EMBER. Nothing here remotely means she deserves to be brutalized. Like, you know how unreasonable this is? Like, "let's beat the shit out of this person because she is a high tier and is trying to be a hero, but is also not fully aware of everything in school as she is focused on the EMBER situation". Let's just beat the crap out of this person who objectively has a good heart. Like, even a simple fight would be fine. But I find it flat out unreasonable and idiotic to say she deserves to be brutalized. This mentality is ridiculous and one I vehemently disagree with.
 
Either way, I am done discussing this for now and will unsubscribe from this thread for a time.
 
I havent commented on here in a while, but I figured I have something to say.

I read alot in general; webtoons and books are my primary source of entertainment minus whatever is on netflix. John is not a...well written character. Dont get me wrong, his back story is solid and he is clearly flawed, but he is far different and has made too many quick turns.

I agree with Dragonmaster, it is really ******* hard to say John is a good person even. He is a jerk. He harms people to the point of near death/Unconsciousness. He doesnt listen to reason or compromise and even when someone is restrained, he will still punch or kick them. John is sort of a anti hero antagonist at this point. Alot of the main conflict now comes from him. If you think otherwise, I think you are honestly deluding yourself.

I saw comments about the recent chapter in fast pass (spoilers btw). That basically have them dissing on Remi for 'idolizing her brother' and how her solution did not work. But it did work! We saw this. Cecile even stated from her view that Rei was 'too soft' Arlo, who shared perhaps a similar view also stated that when Rei left, the school hiearchy was in shambles because the weak was more 'cocky', I guess. So there was a blatant war, probably high tiers vs dozens of low tiers to educate them. Arlo was the one who stopped it. Now granted, Arlo motives were because he was King anyway, so sure I will grant anyone that his motivations are not the cleanest.

But wtf about John? He doesnt get a pass and his motives are arguably worse. He just beats up people now because he can.

You can argue because of these things weave together nicely that he is well written, but considering how we keep seeing him go from worse to worse for no...real reason. He wants to change the school, but hides in the shadows. He wants to Change society and defends super heroes, but he views all high tiers as trash (probably including himself). He is manipulative, working beautifully with Cecile for their own goals, even though he knows Cecile is his partner he still kicks her ass. (Btw Cecile only having one friend to having visited her in the nurse office was...kind of sad.) Final conclusion: John is a hypocrite and does not deserve to be the main antagonist. As someone who has been bullied before, I understand his motivations. But he is no different then high tiers and unlike high tiers who restrain themselves from just beating up everyone and keeping the status quo. John does that and wants to change the status quo to something more unknown and arguably more terrifying. Where he is the Shadow of Wellston and beats up people as 'Joker'.

I want to stop reading UnOrdinary. John as a protagonist hss frankly gotten stale. Remember when John was a tolerant guy who accepted Seraphina even tho she was a high tier and still kicked mid tier ass by throwing them out windows? Pepperridge farm remembers.
 
Honestly the above is mostly a final love letter to the series I made profiles for on the wiki. I am unsure of going further with it. I have so many issues with it.

I miss Joh

Like, the good john. The cool john. Even he does develop..I will find it hard to accept it when other aspects of the story have grown numb for me. I hope Seraphina kicks his ass.
 
I think it's pretty clear that John will get humbled again and become clearly good once more. Like, let's say he beats up Remi and Arlo. Do you think the series is going to end after that? Imo, this arc has been a set up for John's backstory resurfacing and merging with his current life. At the end of it, something major will happen and cause a healthier merge. I think that stopping reading the story just because the hero has fallen from a moral high ground isn't a good idea. It's not like John is going to become permanently a dick for the rest of the story. Like Arlo, he was bad and he's going to get better.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
No, but I have other issues with UnOrdinary then with John just 'being a dick'. It has an inconsistent tone that can be fixed with nuance, but is currently inconsistent. There isnt too many recurring themes other then 'lol low tiers can go suck a dick.'. There is no grand goal like becoming the No 1 Superhero. The worldbuilding is at best shallow or at worst, again, vaguely defined/inconsistent. Suspension of disbelief only takes me so far.

Dargoo if you are reading this probably knows what I mean. When I read and write fiction, I try to analyze and make what I am doing make sense in the world.

You can do this with a narrow setting (Naruto, My Hero Academia, JoJo, Mistborn Era 1), or a more wide one (Tower of God, One Piece, Wheel of Time.)

I admitedly prefer Wide settings of a large world with 'epic' themes. But I have enjoyed narrow settings in the past.

I think I half heartedly recommend UnOrindary to people who want a 'simple story'. I think I am also being partially unfair of being all analytical and nuanced with a series that isnt trying to be. But just because of that, doesnt mean I still have to like it.

I used to love UnOrdinary. Used to like it. Now, I am just waiting for the season to be over. I moved on to other fiction. At this point, I am just holding out until the season in over.

Oh and to directly answer. No I dont think John will stay a dick. No, I dont think UnOrdinary is unsalvageable. But it has alot of issues. If you want a setting with a narrow but consistent world building, I prefer MHA nowadays. Which is funny because literally before I nyxed KinkiestSins, I probably would have argued the reverse.
 
UnOrdinary is just a hypebeast at this point. We can feed it and see where it goes, sure. Just dont come to me when it bites back.

Oh and the fandom is a mixed bag, but I aint gonna start a war over that oof.
 
Remi gains a little self-awareness in the newest fast pass, though it makes her earlier self look even worse.

Also, Arlo is in some serious hot water right now.
 
@MyHero

I thought the same thing lmao. Although yeah there's a point to be made that no one seems to realize just how bad most of those guys that John beat up are. Again I fully support Remi but it's pretty clear she hasn't realized what those others have done. The green haired girl even made Seraphina's hell but no one knows that.

I wouldn't go as far as say that anyone who hasn't realized the wrongs that others do are in the wrong. Remi has only cared for others since the very beginning of the series. Hell she even went out of her way and put her own life at risk to save the lives of some low tiers in a real world scenario.

Definitely don't think she deserves any hate. It's not like she's ever actually SEEN bullying happen and if she had she would have stopped it without a doubt.

Although guys like Isen on the other hand....yeah no he totally doesn't care about what low tiers go through and I hope he begins to acknowledge that John is what their society built. A black stain that's what he is. I mean that's pretty much how school shooters are created. They don't just start out bad.
 
In the paid chapters Remi actually immediately sees some bullying right after she talks to John. The fact that it was so easy to find just shows how little attention she paid before. She never noticed it for over a year but now she finds it in less than a day?
 
Circumstantial evidence at its finest. And it's less she never found bullying, it's more she never found as much of it. Once again, we have no idea of what Remi has done before the series started.
 
And even if this is a flaw with Remi's character, this still doesn't make John's character any more justifiable. Sins comment summed up everything perfectly.
 
Sure it does. Irresponsible leaders deserve to be sacked, and the method of removal at this school is violence.
 
That literally debunks none of sins post. And by this logic, John, who technically already beat Arlo, did nothing to fix the issue as well. For a high tier, relying on the others to do his job for him is just as bad. But let's ignore that. Let's just blindly accept what John does and ignore his flaws. It would be pretty bad if we were critical of actions wouldn't it?
 
Tbf when he beat arlo he still didn't want to be considered high tier or even be a apart of the system. John didn't even want the job;Arlo was forcing it on him.

Imo John is just a product of the system. As the strongest he does what he want to others. That's how high tier were portrayed to him. Why should he have to be a king Jsut for the others when it's them who should do for him. He told arlo long ago that that the system was messed up. Arlo didn't even listen.

It was originally Arlos job to fix the issue. Arlo insisted on John being king even tho John didn't want it. He wanted to be left alone completely. Things later down the line got taken too far with ranks so John started to make ends justify with the system and use his title as the strongest to beat people down.

So technically in the system they made its only right. It wasn't John's job to do anything because he let Arlo keep the title originally on behalf of him leaving John alone. Arlo st that moment should have known that the system was going to eventually crash because of his actions and the actions of the others who thrive off of that system.

Yeah what John doing isn't justified by our standards but the system he is in himself justifies it. We should look at it form the perspective of someone like a teacher at the school. Everyone has been alright with the system but as soon as the strong guys(John) start actually using their power for what they want it's a problem.

I'm also pretty damn sure Remi heard about bulling going on around in the school. She is jsut a victim of the system like everyone else including John who is the product and everyone else the unsatisfied customers ƒñ×. They doomed themselves. So I don't feel bad for anyone but the guy who's perspective we've looked through the most. It's sad John has changed to this guy but it's not his fault. I feel bad knowing that what he is doing isn't right with our standards but I'm fine with it because the system for the school was made that way and they themselves were originally fine with it.
 
Your first few paragraphs detail how Arlo, forced the system on him. However, he has long been a high tier, matter of fact, the only high tier in the school above him was Sera. Yet, we see he by no means went all Masked Fighter Tuesday beforehand. If anything, him doing so no proves that he could always have defended others without revealing his identity. John is a product of the system, everyone is in a way, shape or form.

This does not excuse John whatsoever. Not to mention that it's blatantly false that all high tiers are assholes. Why? Not only is he close to Sera who is literally the strongest one in school, he also had recommendations from Sera for Remi and Blyke. It's clear that Remi specifically is not like the other high tiers, that much I find to be obvious considering what has happened.

"Yeah what John doing isn't justified by our standards but the system he is in himself justifies it. We should look at it form the perspective of someone like a teacher at the school. Everyone has been alright with the system but as soon as the strong guys(John) start actually using their power for what they want it's a problem."

No, the system says nothing about brutalizing your opponents to get what you want. Remi herself noted that this was the biggest issue. This is a thing people seem to ignore. Do I care about beating all the high tiers to make a point? No. My issue arises with the brutalization which I've stated countless times. If we were going into a fight and John would just defeat them, I wouldn't bat an eye. However, John goes too far which is what makes me root against him and not for him. Especially after seeing what type of people Remi and Blyke are by nature.

"I'm also pretty damn sure Remi heard about bulling going on around in the school. She is jsut a victim of the system like everyone else including John who is the product and everyone else the unsatisfied customers"

How do we know? You have evidence of this? How do we know she has done nothing, you have evidence of what she did before the series started? Also, never once have I excused Remi for her being oblivious to what's happening. However, I have instead focused on arguing whether she deserves to get brutalized and whether John should just get a free pass for what he's doing.

"So I don't feel bad for anyone but the guy who's perspective we've looked through the most. It's sad John has changed to this guy but it's not his fault. I feel bad knowing that what he is doing isn't right with our standards but I'm fine with it because the system for the school was made that way and they themselves were originally fine with it."

Yeah, I disagree. I feel for John, however none of that justifies brutalizing others. Just because we've seen his perspective doesn't mean I shouldn't feel for someone else, especially when we've gotten a handle on the other characters and who they are. And, no it is his fault. He himself decided to hide his ability. He himself decided to do nothing to stop what he hated. He himself decided to act as a cripple, knowing how he'd be treated. He's the one who decided to have a violent rule. He's the one who has decided to brutalize others. Yes, Arlo is also to blame, but many actions from John could have been dealt in other ways. Do I want the hierarchy to be fixed? Yeah, this system is bullshit. However, instead of trying to find those who think like him, he decided to brutalize all the high tiers in his school as if this is going to change the system of the world.
 
THE system puts the strongest in charge. Therefore if John wants to beat someone down it's fine. Isen is even find with getting his ass beat badly.

Also Arlo didn't do anything about the system but assimilate into his role as the king. Next he tried to force it on John who specifically told him he wanted no part. I'm taking about after not before where Arlo was there before John. Arlo should have atleast realized the risk of John just wanting to be left alone. Other kids were going to continue to run over him because of the system. So John decided as the strongest that system has to go and anyone was okay with the system as well has to also.
 
Reread my comment, I noted that there is fault that lies with Arlo. This all started due to him in the first place. Arlo and John are kinda the biggest issue here with their roles swapping. The system puts John in charge, but we are also talking moral here. If we by our morals show dislike for the system, we should show disdain for actions made by the system.
 
Oh yeah oof I jsut realized maybe John doesn't have to see them use their ability but jsut see them. He could probably see invisible aura
 
This is the strongest John we've ever seen.

Stats:

Power: 10

Speed: 4

Trick: 10

Recovery: 4

Defense: 10

He's at 38/50, more than Seraphina's mom who's 33/50 and 7.4.

Also, gotta admire the heroic sacrifice from Arlo.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Lego discussion thread
Replies
27
Views
799
Lloydblitzed
Lloydblitzed
VersusJunkie54
Halo General Discussion Thread
2 3 4
Replies
143
Views
5K
HammerStrikes219
HammerStrikes219
Rikimarox2
John Doe (Unordinary) VS Yu (The Boxer)
2 3
Replies
92
Views
5K
Cimafranca133
Cimafranca133
Artorimachi_Meteoraft
Dinosaur general discussion thread
Replies
11
Views
833
King_Dom470
King_Dom470
Sans (Undertale) vs John Doe (UnOrdinary)
Replies
7
Views
2K
Mickey1940
Mickey1940
Back
Top