Undertale Yellow Discussion Thread

[StrymULTRA]

Superior to Guardner,the rest of the robots in the steamworks and some waterfall monsters. Which is kinda weak. That's why I'm not entirely sure.

"at least" is used for significantly upscaling from something, not just being stronger.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Superior to Guardner,the rest of the robots in the steamworks and some waterfall monsters. Which is kinda weak. That's why I'm not entirely sure.

Ah yeah, not sure about “at least” based on that either.

You could say that his status as a human eradication robot and Chujin’s confidence in his strength puts him above Mettaton’s Box form (as that form isn’t designed for combat), but even then I don’t think that warrants an “at least”. At best that’d give him Supersonic+ speed, and maybe Hypersonic if you think he should be at Undyne’s level.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

On the topic of Speed, I think it would be good to summarise that as well:

• Pre-Wild East: Supersonic
• Wild East onwards: Supersonic, maybe Supersonic+ to Hypersonic
• Shooter Mode Clover, LV 19+ Clover and Masked Ceroba: Hypersonic
• Zenith Martlet: Hypersonic, maybe Hypersonic+
• Macro Froggit and Buff Froggit: Immeasurable

Stuff in italics needs to be discussed. Clover getting a speed amp with their equipment upgrade feels really weird to me now that I think about it, but if everyone else thinks the evidence in favour of Supersonic+ to Hypersonic is good enough then idk. Hypersonic+ is for the same reasoning as Sans, but idk if that would also apply to Martlet here.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

So I decided to make a Starlo sandbox, mainly as some practice for page editing as I haven't really done it before. Hopefully I did it in the right place lol

One issue I'm having is getting the gif of Starlo to show up on the page. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

 

[Psychomaster35]

One issue I'm having is getting the gif of Starlo to show up on the page. Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

You have to upload it the same way you upload images, which is by clicking the picture frame in the toolbar.

Anyways... how's this for a Dunebud? And before you say anything, common refutes:

"Dunebud's attack is smaller in the actual game!"

Probably could've shrunk it down to make the castle fit onto the screen. The official trailer shows it to be much larger, which is understandable.

"That's stronger than Mettaton's wall busting feat, and Dunebud only has 8 ATK while Mettaton has 30!"

Mate, this is a fangame. Of course it's not canon to Undertale, so I don't see the problem.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Decided to start making an AXIS profile.

https://fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Blunt_Claw/AXIS

 

[Ghengiroo115]

You have to upload it the same way you upload images, which is by clicking the picture frame in the toolbar.

Weirdly it still won't work for me. Adding images works fine but the gif doesn't. I'll just use his face sprite for now and figure it out later.

Anyways... how's this for a Dunebud?

That's pretty nice. I am curious on what the rating would be using the in-game attack, but yeah the trailer version is probably more accurate to what it's supposed to be.

If this is used, would that stop any characters from potentially being able to use UT speed ratings? I know that if a fan work scales too differently from the canon that feats from canon can't be used, but idk what the threshold is or if that would also affect speed.

In my eyes it technically doesn't contradict canon since the only UT characters in the game are ones with a vague power level already, but idk if anyone else would agree.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I mean, isn’t LV 1 Clover still fast enough to dodge Asgore's non-unavoidable attacks in the flawed pacifist ending? Nothing implies that Asgore really got faster/slower by Undertale.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I'm not a fan of using the trailer for the calc since not only is it really different from in-game version of the attack (rising out of the ground instead of dropping in) but also because it's clearly exaggerated for the sake of a gag.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I mean, isn’t LV 1 Clover still fast enough to dodge Asgore's non-unavoidable attacks in the flawed pacifist ending? Nothing implies that Asgore really got faster/slower by Undertale.

I meant moreso whether UT's speed feats were allowed to be used at all, since Yellow's characters would be scaling to a much greater AP feat than UT characters.

Again I personally don't see the issue with that in this case since Asgore and Flower have kinda vague power levels in canon, but I might be wrong.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I'm not a fan of using the trailer for the calc since not only is it really diffrent from in-game version of the attack (rising out of the ground instead of dropping in) but also because it's clearly exaggerated for the sake of a gag.

I can go either way on whether it's exaggerated or not, but yeah having the in-game version be summoned differently is notable.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Is AXIS's inorganic physiology type 1 or 2 (i.e. do they have a soul)?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Is AXIS's inorganic physiology type 1 or 2 (i.e. do they have a soul)?

I don't believe he does, it doesn't really make sense since he's an AI and all. I think if he did have a soul he would've acted more lifelike like Mettaton.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I don't believe he does, it doesn't really make sense since he's an AI and all. I think if he did have a soul he would've acted more lifelike like Mettaton.

I also think it's probably type 2 but unlike every other robot in the steamworks AXIS gives exp upon death which throws me off.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I also think it's probably type 2 but unlike every other robot in the steamworks AXIS gives exp upon death which throws me off.

Yeah that's the weird bit, maybe it's just because he has a kill count?

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Yeah that's the weird bit, maybe it's just because he has a kill count?

I have it as "Most likely type 2" in my sandbox right now but we should investigate further to remove all doubt.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Updated my AXIS sandbox. I think I used linked text way too much and using references instead would probably be preferable in certain lines but I'll fix all that later.

 

[PROPLAYEN]

Updated my AXIS sandbox. I think I used linked text way too much and using references instead would probably be preferable in certain lines but I'll fix all that later.

Axis goes by he/him in-game

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Added Images to the sandbox.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Fleshed out AXIS's P&A, tell me if anything is missing.

What will his Lifting Strength and Striking Strength be?
LS will probably upscale from Clovers since he can apprehend them.
Not sure about SS since he only uses projectiles.

 

[CanineAnnoyer]

attack reflection, the lid can reflect some attacks when used by clover

 

[Blunt_Claw]

attack reflection, the lid can reflect some attacks when used by clover

But it doesn't reflect Clovers attacks, I'll put it in as a possibly.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Just realised I didn't put in any resistences.

 

[koopa3144]

Btw is anyone working on Ceroba's profile rn? I might make a blog for her if there isn't one already.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Btw is anyone working on Ceroba's profile rn? I might make a blog for her if there isn't one already.

Go ahead.

 

[Psychomaster35]

But it doesn't reflect Clovers attacks, I'll put it in as a possibly.

That shouldn't be a possibly. It could just be that they do bounce off on impact just like how his own attacks can get bounced off of the trash can lid. It could be the result of game limitations that they couldn't show the bullets being reflected, so it's instead blocked.

And late to this, but...

I'm not a fan of using the trailer for the calc since not only is it really different from in-game version of the attack (rising out of the ground instead of dropping in) but also because it's clearly exaggerated for the sake of a gag.

Gag feat how? Regardless, just because the game version is different doesn't mean Dunebud can't do that method it did in the official trailer. Sure, the methods on how it summons the sand castle are different, but one thing remains the same: the castle firing arrows upon it being summoned.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

That shouldn't be a possibly. It could just be that they do bounce off on impact just like how his own attacks can get bounced off of the trash can lid. It could be the result of game limitations that they couldn't show the bullets being reflected, so it's instead blocked.

Even if Clovers bullets do get reflected AXIS clearly doesn't or can't use them offensively, it's staying as possibly.

Gag feat how? Regardless, just because the game version is different doesn't mean Dunebud can't do that method it did in the official trailer. Sure, the methods on how it summons the sand castle are different, but one thing remains the same: the castle firing arrows upon it being summoned.

I shouldn't need to explain why the entire dunebud encounter in the trailer is a gag... because Clover doesn't scale : P
They don't get hit by the castle and it's a huge stretch to assume that the rest of Dunebuds attacks or durability are High 8-C.
Plus you need to prove why the trailer should take precedence over the game instead of just being secondary canon.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Gameplay limitations can be used to justify why it's different, even in OG UT stuff changes size between attacks despite being the same thing (Tsunderplane)

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Gameplay limitations can be used to justify why it's different

Gameplay limitations can not be used to justify why it rises from the ground instead of being a giant bucket that falls from the sky. (Which would have been funnier and just as cool)

 

[Psychomaster35]

Even if Clovers bullets do get reflected AXIS clearly doesn't or can't use them offensively, it's staying as possibly.

Because they all miss or he isn't smart enough to actually offensively use it?

I shouldn't need to explain why the entire dunebud encounter in the trailer is a gag... because Clover doesn't scale : P
They don't get hit by the castle and it's a huge stretch to assume that the rest of Dunebuds attacks or durability are High 8-C.
Plus you need to prove why the trailer should take precedence over the game instead of just being secondary canon.

Monsters with equal or higher attack than Dunebud would still (up)scale to the attack.

Like I said, just because Dunebud summons the attack differently in the trailer doesn't mean it can't do it in the game. Mind you, the same trailer also accurately shows how Clover spares all of the Dark Ruins monsters.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Because they all miss or he isn't smart enough to actually offensively use it?

That's nearly identical to what I said.

Gameplay limitations.

Refuted here:

Gameplay limitations can not be used to justify why it rises from the ground instead of being a giant bucket that falls from the sky. (Which would have been funnier and just as cool)

Monsters with equal or higher attack than Dunebud would still (up)scale to the attack.

Attack stats in Undertale Yellow are just game mechanics. Dunebud could secretly be the strongest monster (Aside from Zenith) and we couldn't tell.

 

[Psychomaster35]

That's nearly identical to what I said.

Nonetheless I disagree with it being possibly. It should just be straight up Attack Reflection even if he isn't smart enough to do it.

Attack stats in Undertale Yellow are just game mechanics. Dunebud could secretly be the strongest monster (Aside from Zenith) and we couldn't tell.

Unlike Undertale, the amount of damage a monster does is basically their ATK - your equipment DEF. And unlike Frisk who gets stronger depending on how determined they are, Clover is never implied to get stronger while still being LVL 1 without trying to level up because they lack determination.

Refuted here:

I was editing my comment while you were commenting, sorry 'bout that.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

Nonetheless I disagree with it being possibly. It should just be straight up Attack Reflection even if he isn't smart enough to do it.

We don't know if he can USE the attack reflection therefore we can't put it in the profile as if he can simply use it. I'm keeping it at Possibly.

Unlike Undertale, the amount of damage a monster does is basically their ATK - your equipment DEF. And unlike Frisk who gets stronger depending on how determined they are, Clover is never implied to get stronger while still being LVL 1 without trying to level up because they lack determination.

They don't get hit by the castle and it's a huge stretch to assume that the rest of Dunebuds attacks or durability are High 8-C.

 

[Psychomaster35]

We don't know if he can USE the attack reflection therefore we can't put it in the profile as if he can simply use it. I'm keeping it at Possibly.

I never said he can use it in-character. He has the potential to do it scaling to Clover with literally the same lid, but he never does it. Think of it like Metal Sonic copying all of Sonic's abilities but never using certain moves. It doesn't mean he can't do them.

They don't get hit by the castle and it's a huge stretch to assume that the rest of Dunebuds attacks or durability are High 8-C.

Monsters with equal or higher attack than Dunebud would still (up)scale to the attack.

To put it specifically, they (up)scale from the kinetic energy of the attack. So if a monster is 8 ATK or higher, they (up)scale. Simple as that.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I never said he can use it in-character. He has the potential to do it scaling to Clover with the same lid, but he never does it. Think of it like Metal Sonic copying all of Sonic's abilities but never using certain moves. It doesn't mean he can't so them.

In Metal Sonics case we have reason to assume he could use those abilities, in AXISs case we have reason to assume he can't.

Monsters with equal or higher attack than Dunebud would still (up)scale to the attack.

Attack stats in Undertale Yellow are just game mechanics. Dunebud could secretly be the strongest monster (Aside from Zenith) and we couldn't tell.

Please stop using points I have already refuted.

@PROPLAYEN @koopa3144 @Ghengiroo115 @CanineAnnoyer Your opinions would be useful here.

 

[Psychomaster35]

In Metal Sonics case we have reason to assume he could use those abilities, in AXISs case we have reason to assume he can't.

Bruh

I literally just proved that he COULD do it because Clover with the same lid can do it, but he just CAN'T because he either isn't smart enough to do it or it's game limitations/mechanics. Stop trying to be this ignorant of my points.

Please stop using points I have already refuted.

No, YOU should stop that. You're just being ignorant of my points. We literally use in-game stats as the reason why characters (up)scale in Undertale, so there shouldn't be a reason the same doesn't apply to Undertale Yellow.

 

[Psychomaster35]

@PROPLAYEN @koopa3144 @Ghengiroo115 @CanineAnnoyer Your opinions would be useful here.

By the way, you can't ping users as a regular user. Only staff can do that.

@PROPLAYEN @koopa3144 @Ghengiroo115 @CanineAnnoyer Input would be appreciated.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I literally just proved that he COULD do it because Clover with the same lid can do it, but he just CAN'T. Stop trying to be ignorant.

No you didn't prove anything I just assumed that AXIS deflected the bullets for the sake of the arguement.
We don't see bullets ricochet in-game, there is no proof.

No, YOU should stop that. You're just being ignorant of my points. We literally use in-game stats as the reason why characters (up)scale in Undertale, so there shouldn't be a reason the same doesn't apply to Undertale Yellow.

Maybe you should read the previous pages in this thread because we determined that the stats in UTY were just game mechanics.

Btw the Check stats are the actual in-game stats, thought this meant we could scale em to the UT cast's in-game stats
But then the Froggit Check is ATK 3 and DEF 2, which is neither the Check or in-game stats of a Froggit, so I dunno what to do lol

It just means that we only use approximations to compare X to Canon character, as the developers clearly don't use the canon stats.

Only real thing I can think of is scaling from Axis who killed a human who was making the Genocide Route, making them generally a "9-B, likely 9-A" at absolute least imho.

Regardless, as UT Yellow doesn't follow the canon stats, Zenith Martlet and End of Geno Clover are absolutely 9-A, as the former is definitely stronger than Asgore due to her being described as the Zenith of monsterkind, so at least we have that.

Check stats don’t mean too much in Yellow, Axis has noticeably higher stats in Geno despite that making no sense narratively.

 

[koopa3144]

I think the AXIS should have limited attack reflection with the profile noting that it only reflects energy attacks. For the Dunebud stuff, I think it could maybe get a "possibly" rating to those who upscale without the use of stats but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

[Blunt_Claw]

I think the AXIS should have limited attack reflection

Added limited to the sandbox.