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Undertale Top and God tier downgrade(?)

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Juggerton

Juggerton

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1)Iirc,Asriel and Chara being Multiversal is from a statement that they can destroy the 'World'.This alone doesn't make much sense for me considering how vague it is (since the World can just be a single timeline and at the same time,it could mean something else,the Multiverse for example).They shouldn't be buffed to Multiversal just because they choose other words for timeline.

2)As for Undyne,I felt like she shouldn't be scaled to Chara because if her STATs because it's vague as heck.Ss I stated before,Stats option can just be a lie(or just how Frisk evaluating them) as proven by Glyde when his Stats are just 'high' numerically (and I am sure that he cannot manipulate data).

3)The reason Undyne is able to tank a few hits from Chara is because she had a human soul (normal human but not as superior as Frisk and Flowey)characteristics (Determination) therefore she is resistant to the attacks Chara/Frisk did to her.

4)Omega Flowey's AP should be lower than Multiverse considering he didn't destroy the Undertale world,(you can still walk normally unlike the other routes)


TLDR:1)Chara and Asriel should be:At least Low '2-C',possibly higher

2) Undyne the Undying should be: At least '7-C,'possibly higher(Done)

3)Omega Flowey should be:At least Low 2-C',possibly higher'
 
1. I'll quote myself regarding world=/=timeline, in this case.

"At the end, whether the Player agrees or not, Chara will destroy the world. However, "world" in this case does not refer to the planet, or a single timeline, but instead the game's entire reality. This can be seen by the fact that when Chara performs this feat, the game crashes, and upon booting it back up, there is absolutely nothing (keep in mind Chara only speaks this dialogue to the Player after they wait in the void for ten minutes). How am I so sure Undertale's entire reality was destroyed, you may ask? Simple. Had only the planet been destroyed, Frisk or the Player simply could have reset from their last save point, and the game would not have crashed, as in no circumstances does Frisk's death do this without an outside force pushing you out. Had only a single timeline been destroyed, the game ALSO wouldn't have crashed, as both Omega Flowey and Asriel later destroy timelines while the overall reality of the game itself remains stable."

tl;dr We actually have two examples of single timelines being destroyed and the effect is nowhere near as devastating nor permanent (until you sell your SOUL, that is) as what Chara does.

2. I actually think Undying and NEO should be straight up "Unknown" due to how vague both are left. I ca justify the possible Tier 2 for them (as I had to do, before), but I honestly feel "Unknown" is safer.

3.Wait what? Where did this info come from?

4.OF is scaled to Chara, actually.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
1. I'll quote myself regarding world=/=timeline, in this case.
"At the end, whether the Player agrees or not, Chara will destroy the world. However, "world" in this case does not refer to the planet, or a single timeline, but instead the game's entire reality. This can be seen by the fact that when Chara performs this feat, the game crashes, and upon booting it back up, there is absolutely nothing (keep in mind Chara only speaks this dialogue to the Player after they wait in the void for ten minutes). How am I so sure Undertale's entire reality was destroyed, you may ask? Simple. Had only the planet been destroyed, Frisk or the Player simply could have reset from their last save point, and the game would not have crashed, as in no circumstances does Frisk's death do this without an outside force pushing you out. Had only a single timeline been destroyed, the game ALSO wouldn't have crashed, as both Omega Flowey and Asriel later destroy timelines while the overall reality of the game itself remains stable."

tl;dr We actually have two examples of single timelines being destroyed and the effect is nowhere near as devastating nor permanent (until you sell your SOUL, that is) as what Chara does.

2. I actually think Undying and NEO should be straight up "Unknown" due to how vague both are left. I ca justify the possible Tier 2 for them (as I had to do, before), but I honestly feel "Unknown" is safer.

3.Wait what? Where did this info come from?

4.OF is scaled to Chara, actually.
Click to expand...
Thank you for replying me Azzy :D


1)Game crashing happened twice in both Genocide post ending and Neutral end.The difference is that after defeating OF,you get to walk to the End(the Boundary of the Great Not Hakurei Barrier, reference intended lol) whereas in the Genocide post ending your 'world'(either just one timeline or not) gets erased.Either way,you cannot reset it.Absolutely nothing could at the same time means other things.It could be just that timeline's stuff was erased.


2)Yea.Probably Unknown is way better since they are too vague


3)It is said that when Human>Monster because of their souls being stronger(physically iirc,funnily enough this is the opposite of Touhou)Normally,injecting Determination will fail on Monsters because of their incapability of withstanding it,causing them to melt.Undyne however is shown to be able to 'generate' Dt naturally,thus making her a hybrid since she has a part human characteristics.


4) I'll just leave that for now until I settled with Chara :s
 
The difference about the game crash is because Flowey wanted to torture Frisk and Chara just wanted to end everything and azathoth already explaneid why not only 1 timeline was destroyed

tl;dr We actually have two examples of single timelines being destroyed and the effect is nowhere near as devastating nor permanent (until you sell your SOUL, that is) as what Chara does.
About Undyne... she doesn't have human soul where did you get that?

Undyne can't withstand determinatio too well at least not for too long and the amalgamates needed some time after getting determination before turning into amalgamates...

but i am too lazy to get a link :v
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
The difference about the game crash is because Flowey wanted to torture Frisk and Chara just wanted to end everything and azathoth already explaneid why not only 1 timeline was destroyed
tl;dr We actually have two examples of single timelines being destroyed and the effect is nowhere near as devastating nor permanent (until you sell your SOUL, that is) as what Chara does.
About Undyne... she doesn't have human soul where did you get that?

Undyne can't withstand determinatio too well at least not for too long and the amalgamates needed some time after getting determination before turning into amalgamates...

but i am too lazy to get a link :v
Click to expand...
Flowey's action still crash the game nevertheless of the intention of torturing you.According to Azzy,he still destroy the timeline.


I didn't say Undyne's soul =normal human soul.I just said Undyne's soul has a part human soul characteristics,Dt(generating Dt and is more capable of handling Dt).Compare to Amalgamates who failed to withstand and fusing with others,she is certainly wayy better than withstanding Dt.


Lol. :V I need da link
 
Likely because we are at a void and that is later retaured by human souls when he is defeated... but he clearly didn't destroyed everything like Chara because "The World" still exist somehow

Link...

SUFFER i had to search a 3 mins video >:V
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
Likely because we are at a void and that is later retaured by human souls when he is defeated... but he clearly didn't destroyed everything like Chara because "The World" still exist somehow
Link...

SUFFER i had to search a 3 mins video >:V
Click to expand...
Its possible that the souls helped restoring it.The difference is that they are just normal human souls with limited Dt(albeit still way higher than average monsters).Only 7+1 monster soul cam restore it like what Asriel did iirc.I doubt they have done it(but who the heck knows).


Wait,is this a plot hole?Technically she can't fix it without resetting.But then Flowey destroyed the Universe(or Multiverse but this isn't the point) which will disallow Frisk to reset.6 normal human souls can't fix it as stated as Asriel.Then,who the hell fix that thing???
 
I don't know about anyone else and I'm pretty fine with most UT characters, but Multiversal Mettaton NEO because stats and nothing else always bugged me - unlike Undyne, he couldn't really put up a fight at all. Since he is Unknown, anywhere up to that now, I'm pretty fine with anything regarding the verse as it is right now, really.
 
He was Universal because he was build to defeat the strongest humans

but now Undyne and Mettaton will be changed to unknown...
 
We know humans in UT are usually way stronger than monsters but we don't know how much stronger we're talking about here. For example, any human out there could comfortably sit at something like Planet ~ Star ~ Solar System Level and still ROFLstomp any monster out there aside from the GodTiers. Hence why Mettatton NEO being straight up a solid Multi-Universe based on that would be wrong for me.

But his profile lists him as Unknown, anywhere up to Multi-Universe anyways, so that's cool.
 
FateAlbane said:
We know humans in UT are usually way stronger than monsters but we don't know how much stronger we're talking about here. For example, any human out there could comfortably sit at something like Planet ~ Star ~ Solar System Level and still ROFLstomp any monster out there aside from the GodTiers. Hence why Mettatton NEO being straight up a solid Multi-Universe based on that would be wrong for me.
But his profile lists him as Unknown, anywhere up to Multi-Universe anyways, so that's cool.
Click to expand...
I think Mettaton was built to be stronger than the average human(which obviously doesn't out him at multi-universe range)but then Frisk is NOT your average peeps
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
Yes it would be better something like "At least Town Level, possibly City Level/far Higher" than Universal
Click to expand...
Yea except for the Far higher than Universal


It should be At least Town level possibly City level,likely far higher ; Unknow
 
Frisk is a anomaly in many ways...

But there still humans stronger than they like the ones that created the barrier which Asriel needed his full power to destroy

and i said "City level" or "Far higher"
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
Frisk is a anomaly in many ways...
But there still humans stronger than they like the ones that created the barrier which Asriel needed his full power to destroy

and i said "City level" or "Far higher"
Click to expand...
I know.Its just that the far higher than Universal confused me lol


Here.Have a nice tea ƒìÁ
 
Maybe?


It's not answered in my mind though but who cares because it's up to you guys to decide whether to change it or not
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
I guess the only agreement at this thread was Undyne and Mettaton getting Unknown stats rather than multiversal?
Click to expand...
Yea.These two getting Multiversal are weirder than the actual god tier being one
 
Random1201 said:
Disagree with the downgrade for reasons above.
Click to expand...
What reasons may I ask?


I prefer personal opinion rather than 'for reasons above' when it comes to downgrade/upgrade thread
 
Chara,Omega Flowey and Asriel should remain Tier 2.Chara destroyed every timeline in existence and Omega Flowey is massively above them.Asriel is infinitely above the previously mentioned 2-B characters.

While I do think that Undyne should probably get an "unknown" rating,your reasons for downgrading her are purely speculation.There's no proof that Undyne's soul is part human nor is there proof that her Stats were a lie.
 
Random1201 said:
Chara,Omega Flowey and Asriel should remain Tier 2.Chara destroyed every timeline in existence and Omega Flowey is massively above them.Asriel is infinitely above the previously mentioned 2-B characters.
While I do think that Undyne should probably get an "unknown" rating,your reasons for downgrading her are purely speculation.There's no proof that Undyne's soul is part human nor is there proof that her Stats were a lie.
Click to expand...
First of all,thank you for the opinions


1) There's no concrete proof that Chara and Asriel destroyed every single timeline in existence.The closest it gets is destroying the 'World' which is rather dubious(it could mean that Universe or that Multiverse,thats why they should be 3A+ , likely higher).Omega Flowey is even worse,it cannot even erase the 'World' since you can still walk to the END(the barrier) without him restoring it.


2) There is proof that she has a part human soul (characteristic).As I say above,normally Monster cannot even 'generate 'Dt whereas Undyne is able to like most humans.She can even withstand Dt (albeit limited) while Almagamates melt upon injecting Dt.


3)I am not saying All the Check options are a lie.There are some characters proof that Check Option should not be relied on completely
 
1) Give this a read.

2) Sure she displayed some of the "characteristics" of a Human Soul but that doesn't literally mean her soul is part human.

How would this provide a downgrade anyhow?

3) Can you elaborate on this?
 
Random1201 said:
1) Give this a read.
2) Sure she displayed some of the "characteristics" of a Human Soul but that doesn't literally mean her soul is part human.

How would this provide a downgrade anyhow?

3) Can you elaborate on this?
Click to expand...
1) Yes I have.But it didn't proof the point that the World is Multiverse just because the God tiers decide to use other words for it.(Again,I am not saying that they are not Multiversal but they might be weaker because of the confusion of the 'World' caused)


2)I said her soul has some human characteristics.(Did I say her soul being part human?If so,pardon)


Basically,in Genocide run,almost everyone was one shot by Chara/Frisk because of them being too violent(High LVL).Most monsters are already weak to human souls already (due to the Human souls being immensely strong).Being violent is even more threatening for them (ie. A violent bloodlusted kid is more dangerous than a normal adult) because they apparently don't like being violent(iirc).But it's a different case for Undyne,she has some unusually strong soul(able to withstand Dt better than any monsters encountered). Therefore,she has the resistance to Frisk's attack.Think of it as a Pokemon battle(albeit kinda irrelevant).Frisk is a Fire type while Base Undyne is a Grass type.With Dt,Undyne iis changed to Fire/Grass types(for this occasion,Human souls will be Fire type) will be no longer weak to rather neutralize with it.On the Genocide run,Undyne is then Bloodlusted which then counteracts Frisk being Bloodlusted.


3)Almagamates have negative stats.Glyde has a HIGH stats xD.Mad Dummy has a YES DEF stat.Temmie's stats being urgghh TEM..
 
Asriel destroyed a timeline nothing hapened to the game

After that Asriel goes and try destroy the world...

Everything was ending

Seriously how that can be only 1 timeline?

You said Undyne had a human soul

"3)The reason Undyne is able to tank a few hits from Chara is because she had a human soul (normal human but not as superior as Frisk and Flowey)characteristics (Determination) therefore she is resistant to the attacks Chara/Frisk did to her."

and no that doesn't mean anything at all just mean Undyne got DT and was stronger/Comparable to Mid-Game Chara
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
Asriel destroyed a timeline nothing hapened to the game
After that Asriel goes and try destroy the world...

Everything was ending

Seriously how that can be only 1 timeline?

You said Undyne had a human soul

"3)The reason Undyne is able to tank a few hits from Chara is because she had a human soul (normal human but not as superior as Frisk and Flowey)characteristics (Determination) therefore she is resistant to the attacks Chara/Frisk did to her."

and no that doesn't mean anything at all just mean Undyne got DT and was stronger/Comparable to Mid-Game Chara
Click to expand...
Asriel destroyed a timeline =there's just void= Its ending =still doesn't proof that his AP is Multiversal+


Shit.shit.shit.Did I seriously say that?Pardon meeeee.She is just resistant to it and slightly overpowered Chara at that time(But then,Chara has save scumming which then prevented her from losing)
 
Anonimoe7875 said:
He 2-A because the game put Chara and Flowey with finite stats while he have infinite stats
Click to expand...
Didn't I just say CHECK option should be taken with a grain of salt?


It could be Frisk evaluating them.To a child,A God/Legends seems to be an omnipotent being.(Asriel was named the God of HyperDeath)
 
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