Undertale shitton of revisions.

[The_real_cal_howard]

Asriel is stronger than Chara. I’ll say that much.

 

[Eficiente]

but just because the point was on amino doesn't make it wrong, that's just elitism, multiple people say the same about the very wikia we are on, just discarding things because they are on Vs Battles wikia, so let's not k

Not the first time I say something and you warp it into something negative, I asked for higher competence by not proving A thing via a theory of B thing where one needs to find where A thing is being proven somewhere within, in a site where you need to read its content behind some chat it puts in front and before it may stop you by asking to download its app. I shouldn't have said any of that, you should have picked up some of it.

people aren't 100% sure that the save files Flowey creates are real timelines

I can easily make an argument that they aren't any day, and seeing how the Flowey thing starts with a downgrade, that may be today, but I would like to first not be on the the worst possible position; what claims we do have to say those are timelines and who here actually cares to discuss the matter? If they were somewhat ok with Low 2-C then surely they can discuss lesser.

 

[Agnaa]

Because Flowey has the exact same mechanic that Frisk uses, and we know from the Sans fight that utilizing saves in that way involves creating multiple timelines.

Whoever has the most DT can save and load. Flowey used to have that power, then Frisk did, and with Photoshop Flowey, Flowey has it again.

 

[Theuser789]

I am not warping anything, you just weren't being clear, you could have just asked for him to put the argument on the thread, at least I am glad you admited you could have worded it better

 

[Eficiente]

Because Flowey has the exact same mechanic that Frisk uses, and we know from the Sans fight that utilizing saves in that way involves creating multiple timelines.

Whoever has the most DT can save and load. Flowey used to have that power, then Frisk did, and with Photoshop Flowey, Flowey has it again.

Assuming this are the reasons and knowing at least you care about it then that honestly motivates me to tackle the matter.

The dialogue Sans gave was misunderstood and also mixed with some non-serious stuff that should be dismissed (Frisk talking to other Sanses, which Frisk literally cannot do as they can't go to previous timelines). When a plural amount of timelines is mentioned it doesn't refer to a multiverse having more than 1 timeline, but that the same 1 timeline was modified; before being modified is taken as 1 timeline, after being modified is taken as another timeline, if it's modified again it's other timeline and so on, but it's all the same timeline, like if I make a drawing of thing A, then modify it to be a drawing of thing B, and then of thing C, I could call them all different drawings but there was only 1.

This is proven by other dialogues in the game, primarily Flowey's; when the ability to SAVE and LOAD is introduced he describes it as the ability to reshape the world, not to create a new one and go there, but the modify the existing one. Flowey later describes the ability as ripping the people from the timeline and sending them back in it with their memories "erased" (So, again, they're no many Sanses on many timelines. It's the same Sans). Context wise legit everything in the game fits with it

• When going to this supposed other timelines that's just portrayed as going back (in time).
• Following the many timelines thing when people should be talking about that multiversal setting they instead very explicitly talk only about the/this world.
• When actions A, B & C are done and then one goes back in time to make actions A, B & F, people there (Like Toriel) remember action C as if they had lived that before, which makes less sense should this be a new timeline where action C was never done.
• The people claiming they're many timelines think they're other versions of the characters on those timelines, which is unproven, if anything we know they get ripped away and have their memories erased, which kinda affirms it's all the same people. People like Flowey also refer to everyone as the same beings, no matter the LOADs and Resets done. If there was more than 1 timeline [which there isn't] all of them but one wouldn't have any person in it (and suspiciously the evil characters would try to destroy those wastelands too by destroying the/"this" world).
• Sans' dialogue can easlity be interpreted as supporting only 1 timeline, the part that should be taken seriously no less. The "ending" in timelines starting and ending can go as in the timelines being gone. Not gone via EE but as in, as I said before, drawing of thing B being now a drawing of thing C. Thing B being gone, that drawing having ended. The reverse applies to the timelines starting.

To summarize; That scene in Back to the Future where Doc explains how the timeline"s" work.

 

[Agnaa]

I think some of your points are valid, and some of them are invalid, so imma go through them point by point as I finish reading your post, then say which way I swing at the end.

1. I don't remember the exact quote, could the other Sanses be Sans misunderstanding how the power works (only being able to observe the effects of it with his machine) or talking about any future timelines the player creates? As those explanations aren't ultra-convincing, I think this point is a minor knock against my argument, somewhat valid.
2. How do you know that a plural amount of timelines being mentioned refers to one timeline being altered? Your point seems invalid here.
3. Reshaping the world seems like it could be a flowery way of talking about the ability to create new timelines where you act in a way that shapes the world into one you desire. I think your point of "He didn't say it's the ability to create a new world and go there" because that'd honestly be shit writing. I think this one's overall a wash.
4. I think the full direct quote here "If you so choose... Everyone will be ripped from this timeline... and sent back before all of this ever happened. Nobody will remember anything." sounds really weird from the "one timeline" interpretation. It more sounds like multiple timelines with some slightly strange mechanics of physically sending the people between them as well, but that would make these timelines pretty weird. I think this quote presents problems for both of our ideas of the cosmology.
5. wdym going to other timelines is portrayed as going back in time? We're never actually shown going to other timelines.
6. I think "this world" is way too vague a term in fiction to say it's a point against there being a multiverse.
7. I mean, it makes some sense with Flowey's statement of everyone being ripped from one timeline, presumably into the new timeline, with their memories altered.
8. True! Those timelines would be abandoned which makes things pretty dang weird.
9. I don't think there's any reasonable way to describe that as timelines ending. That's really a stretch to me.

You've made me doubt the multiversal interpretation. As some of the statements end up having really weird implications, like all of the timelines except for one being barren of life, and the evidence for multiple timelines existing actually being fairly sparse.

Unless there's other stuff that would support my case that I'm missing, I think this puts me at about 80% in favor of Low 2-C and 20% in favor of 2-C.

Also, to clarify, would this interpretation have all of Undertale's god-tiers at just Low 2-C?

 

[Eficiente]

I think some of your points are valid, and some of them are invalid

Only reading this much for now as I wanted to reply to it; I'm aware, I wish there was 1 text outright confirming what I said, but felt the need to throw in everything I thought worked as context to have everything together make my case more clear.

 

[Antvasima]

So should anything be applied here, or has everything been rejected?

 

[Agnaa]

The tiers of a few characters may need to change, but I can imagine that needing a good amount more discussion.

Most of the other changes seem to have been rejected.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. Please continue to discuss the potential tier changes with each other then.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

For the ripping people from timelines, as far as I remember that's due to doing a true reset and mulling anything you had done. Not even Flowey or Sans can remember your actions from that point on. You'd be ripping them from the time line because this reset is effectively the Hard Reset if the game.

For the overall amount of timelines though, it's too vague by design to really tell properly. Out if wiki, I personally prefer to take the 100 Fun points as the amount of timelines, as each of those change regardless of your actions, while the other changes are just butterfly effect. But that too has little proof for it.

 

[Agnaa]

You're right, it is at the end of a true pacifist run. It kinda seemed like it was talking about Frisk's power alone, but I can understand the reasoning for it talking about a true reset.

Also, as far as I can tell Eficiente seemed to be saying that there's only one timeline total.

Would this end up being something like "Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" for everyone?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Still, Frisk at their weakest and Flowey in base (and Kris back when they were self-controlled) all can save and they sure as hell don't have Low 2-C Ap by default, so I don't see why making 6 save files would be 2-C.

Evrn assuming each save is a time line (I don't remember any statements implying they are anything but save points you go back to in time), it obviously doesn't scale to AP to make them.

But yeah, I think I agree with Efficient that resetting and reloading do not just make a distinct time-line as opposed to just changing the present one into another.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And yes, that means Low 2-C unless we count fun points as different timelines, in which case 2-C for Asriel and Chara.

 

[Agnaa]

If we were to say that each save is a different timeline, I'd say that Photoshop Flowey scales while Base Flowey/Frisk/Kris don't because Photoshop Flowey actually seems to possess highly notable destructive capacity, making scaling to that creation seem reasonable. Base Flowey/Frisk/Kris obviously don't use it for anything combat applicable, so it'd be misleading to include it for them. As an aside, I think that characters like Juuni Taisen's Rat, who has a solid argument for creating and destroying 99 timelines every time he uses his ability, shouldn't have it included in his AP, since it is ludicrously far from combat applicable for him, he's a 9-B martial artist who just uses that timeline creation/destruction to try out other possibilities.

I'm not sure if that's something rigidly in the site rules, but I think we can/should distinguish between characters like that, and characters who have high-tier creation as well as offensive abilities that seem reasonable to scale.

As a last aside, I wouldn't count fun points as separate timelines that exist, I'd just take them as just events that have a small chance of happening.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

In Rat's case, if I recall correctly, we just separate the AP from their tier and further explain them, such as with that one Marvel psychic that can fuse timelines but do nothing else on that level.

For Flowey, I'm not too sure myself, but I'm fine with him being Low 2-C since soul absorption did make him noticeably stronger.

 

[Agnaa]

We don't do that with Rat's case tho. And we don't do it for most characters whose time travel involves the creation of new timelines. I feel like fusing timelines is more of its own standalone thing making it worthy of inclusion in AP, rather than the side-effect of a time ability which shouldn't be listed, imo.

idk what you mean with your second sentence there, don't know what you're responding to and I don't really understand the logic :v

 

[Antvasima]

I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.

 

[Eficiente]

So, late answer to the first response I got

1. I don't remember the exact quote, could the other Sanses be Sans misunderstanding how the power works (only being able to observe the effects of it with his machine) or talking about any future timelines the player creates? As those explanations aren't ultra-convincing, I think this point is a minor knock against my argument, somewhat valid.
2. How do you know that a plural amount of timelines being mentioned refers to one timeline being altered? Your point seems invalid here.
3. Reshaping the world seems like it could be a flowery way of talking about the ability to create new timelines where you act in a way that shapes the world into one you desire. I think your point of "He didn't say it's the ability to create a new world and go there" because that'd honestly be shit writing. I think this one's overall a wash.
4. I think the full direct quote here "If you so choose... Everyone will be ripped from this timeline... and sent back before all of this ever happened. Nobody will remember anything." sounds really weird from the "one timeline" interpretation. It more sounds like multiple timelines with some slightly strange mechanics of physically sending the people between them as well, but that would make these timelines pretty weird. I think this quote presents problems for both of our ideas of the cosmology.
5. wdym going to other timelines is portrayed as going back in time? We're never actually shown going to other timelines.
6. I think "this world" is way too vague a term in fiction to say it's a point against there being a multiverse.
7. I mean, it makes some sense with Flowey's statement of everyone being ripped from one timeline, presumably into the new timeline, with their memories altered.
8. True! Those timelines would be abandoned which makes things pretty dang weird.
9. I don't think there's any reasonable way to describe that as timelines ending. That's really a stretch to me.

You've made me doubt the multiversal interpretation. As some of the statements end up having really weird implications, like all of the timelines except for one being barren of life, and the evidence for multiple timelines existing actually being fairly sparse.

Unless there's other stuff that would support my case that I'm missing, I think this puts me at about 80% in favor of Low 2-C and 20% in favor of 2-C.

Also, to clarify, would this interpretation have all of Undertale's god-tiers at just Low 2-C?

• 5. When things like saving Toriel are pointed out they're said as Frisk going back, instead creating a thing timeline and going there. The wording implying to just go back in time is what I meant.
• 6. True, but then world meaning "timeline" next to "all the timelines" is more likely.
• 7. Well, what Flowey said was a bit poetic.
• 9. Looking back it he says "our reports show a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum [Note how it's singular]. Timelines jumping left and right. Stopping and starting... " "until suddenly, everything ends." and then goes on to say that he feels bad about having everything resetted at random. The jumping is obviously poetic. Although unnecessary, once again this is the same Sans as in this other "timelines". And I believe that should make the "timeline" being no more more clear.

That may have been mostly unnecessary as you already agreed but eh. I think 2-C should just not be a thing, the ripping everyone from their timelines was a cool poetic thing to say to refer to time going back, everyone being where they were before and thus "ripped" and "not remembering" things they never did, but then with many timelines being made they do, in fact, get ripped from one point in time to other point in time on other universe with their memories literally removed, which would be insane teleportation, timeline creation that should have a tier for everyone that can do that (if not something they can use to punch others with) and memory erase in the form of, idk, causality manip? And none of that has any evidence.

It would be a start but I don't think O.Flowey and maybe even suppressed Asriel are Low 2-C, full power Asriel and Chara are tho.

 

[RethPo]

Hmmm... Ill read through this actually. I think its worth pointing out that alphys has at least confirmed the existence of alternate timelines. So undertales cosmology in general is at least 2-C.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is not confirmation. Her research consists of watching anime as well, and she believes Mew Mew Kissy Cutie is out there, in an alternate universe.

Taking her word on that is as reasonable as accepting her claims that humans go around with giant swords and mechas.

 

[Eficiente]

Even if that was true (idk why I'm going down to this level) those universes wouldn't be inside Undertale as a game/cosmology, in the same way that should Deltarune be confirmed to be an alt. universe that wouldn't be in Undertale.

 

[Eficiente]

I personally prefer to take the 100 Fun points as the amount of timelines, as each of those change regardless of your actions, while the other changes are just butterfly effect. But that too has little proof for it.

Maybe it's not necessarily, but if you want to elaborate about them I can say things about it.

For the ripping people from timelines, as far as I remember that's due to doing a true reset and mulling anything you had done. Not even Flowey or Sans can remember your actions from that point on. You'd be ripping them from the time line because this reset is effectively the Hard Reset if the game.

You're right, it is at the end of a true pacifist run. It kinda seemed like it was talking about Frisk's power alone, but I can understand the reasoning for it talking about a true reset.

Well, Flowey did say that "You have to erase my memories, too." late in the conversation, and talked about it as the power Frisk was trying to stop. The former may imply the process to be always like that (if not always erasing Sans and Flowey's memories) and the latter could apply to those SAVEs and LOADs O.Flowey did, which weren't True Resets. So the mechanics of ripping should always be there, on top of, again,the people always being the same.

----

I hope having said that made things more clear and not the other way, even tho I know they weren't needed.

I don't think O.Flowey and maybe even suppressed Asriel are Low 2-C, full power Asriel and Chara are tho.

So, to clarify this; He says he's gonna purge the timeline and then makes a big attack that destroys everything we see. But then, the barrier survived, we can't see what survived and what didn't, Asriel refers to the place where he and Frisk are as a world and the text says that the world is going to end even tho the timeline should have been already gone. Tbf, "the world" may be Undertale itself, not the timeline inside it (like what Chara did. Even O.Flower could mess with the game in ways that could be argued are unrelated to the timeline). And there are more reasonable things to say against that Suppressed-Asriel-isn't-even-Low 2-C proposal I made, I know, but are they logical? Or do they try to keep him at Low 2-C because that's already assumed to be correct?

The proposal just sucks, even my internal bias wants him to be at Low 2-C, so..........idk.

 

[RethPo]

Mhm. Well the statement itself does seem like it was made with intent but you have a point there. Save files i dont believe make the cosmology 2-C simply because of what i mentioned about them storing memory in a limited time and no given size of these supposed space times flowey creates. The sans statement im neutral on for now, but the only other things i can think of are goner kids dialogue about worlds where he doesnt exist combine with fun values and the fact that frisk after normal resetting can return back to where they were by quitting and continuing if that accounts for anything.

 

[Eficiente]

That's vague.

 

[RethPo]

Not really. Goner kids dialogue straight up talks about a world where he doesnt exist. And these fun values dictate whether he appears or not, which pans far more towards alternate timelines than it would to being something like probability of only one, which would kinda support the idea that each load or reset is a new timeline and sans actually referring to multiple timelines. Frisk is reversing time yeah, but this doesnt necessarily contradict the idea of the past route frisk took continuing as its own timeline which is backed up by him still being able to return through continue. Even the act of "jumping left and right" doesnt sound possible with just one.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Loads do not affect your fun value from what I recall, only resets.

 

[Eficiente]

Not really. Goner kids dialogue straight up talks about a world where he doesnt exist. And these fun values dictate whether he appears or not, which pans far more towards alternate timelines than it would to being something like probability of only one, which would kinda support the idea that each load or reset is a new timeline and sans actually referring to multiple timelines.

It was vague to not show it or talk about it when you pointed it out, now you do and now I can say why it's a headcanon. You're talking about this because you want Undertale to have many timelines, not because it's what makes sense in context; the "world where everything is exactly the same... Except you don't exist" clearly refers to the idea of what happened to Gaster happening to one. The timeline in Undertale is a world without Gaster. The followers are there to give info about Gaster, that one didn't mean "you" as in himself and the other followers, and even if the latter was the case that wouldn't support the idea that each LOAD or Reset being a new timeline, which would, again, bring implications that are massive and would come out of nowhere.

Frisk is reversing time yeah, but this doesnt necessarily contradict the idea of the past route frisk took continuing as its own timeline which is backed up by him still being able to return through continue. Even the act of "jumping left and right" doesnt sound possible with just one.

There's no idea, the idea came out of us claiming whatever, it doesn't need to be contradicted, it needs to proven. It even is contradicted as those timelines, should they be real (which they're not), would not be what the follower said; a world where only you don't exist, they would be whole timelines without anyone in it (and that's also taking the unlike assumption that the follower meant that to be a thing, which he didn't).

I'd rather believe the theory that Chara was good than that there're many timelines with all its implications and contradictions.

Speaking of contradictions, what other follower said supports only being 1 timeline; the one who says that Gaster was shattered across time and space informs he's shattered across 1 timeline, and yet the guy can do stuff regardless of the fun value.

This is just what I meant when I said I didn't want to be in the worst possible position, that all just felt like a conversation of 1, which I may be once again invited to participate.

Also

• Asriel: "I don't care about destroying this world anymore." "After I defeat you and gain total control over the timeline... "

Once again, it's on singular.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I think his point was that Goner Kid won't exist anymore, since... their existence is purely up to a lottery, and changes nothing. The idea that bringing something pointless to him comforts him and all. I'm not arguing for it, just saying.

 

[Thelastmlg]

I agree with agnaa but i have a question.

What's up with "pacifist frisk being MFTL+ via scaling to god asriel" like, what's the reasoning for him being MFTL+?

 

[Agnaa]

@Thelastmlg The reasoning is that Asriel's Hyper Goner attack destroyed the timeline, giving him MFTL+ attack speed, which would then scale to Frisk to dodging his attacks.

This seems like bad reasoning to me, but I haven't seen anything like it before so I dunno.

 

[Eficiente]

I think his point was that Goner Kid won't exist anymore, since... their existence is purely up to a lottery, and changes nothing. The idea that bringing something pointless to him comforts him and all. I'm not arguing for it, just saying.

Giving it a second thought, yes, it can imply that he wouldn't exist, if not necessarily (If we take literally that the thought terrifies him then the umbrella can ease that thought, him asking Frisk to forget him due to mysteries reasons and not being a relevant character). But from that to rest of the things RethPo said there's a jump in logic for the reasons I said above. It can be the same world, with other things having happened in it, like the rest of things in Undertale.

 

[Eficiente]

Adding to the base-Asriel-isn't-Low 2-C thing, isn't it odd how the barrier is still there and yet we need to imagine the human world and all humans being erased? With the souls inside Asrielstill wanting the barrier gone no less? Or how Napstablook reacts to everything after it happened?

 

[Thelastmlg]

@Thelastmlg The reasoning is that Asriel's Hyper Goner attack destroyed the timeline, giving him MFTL+ attack speed, which would then scale to Frisk to dodging his attacks.

This seems like bad reasoning to me, but I haven't seen anything like it before so I dunno.

Pretty sure an attack destroying the timeline would be immensurable (yay immensurable undertale again)

And she didn't seem to react to it, she only reacted to those weird ass diamonds coming at him, the attack was not even a normal alone, it was like asriel was eating the timeline.

I was expecting it to be his star shower attack tbh

 

[RethPo]

Um... Goner kid isnt really a confirmed follower of gaster nor brings up mention of him, beyond functioning similar to the other followers. All thats known about gaster is that he shattered across time and space (nothing suggests this being limited to one space time). Shattering across "space time" can still work in the context of a multiverse if its not explicitely treat as one. Its not a contradiction. But yeah, what ricsi said. The points that if frisk is truly just doing this with one timeline. Then why would goner kid just suddenly not exist anymore from frisk being in practically the exact same timeline. Him not appearing due to the number you are given after each reset much more heavily implies a new timeline is my point. Even if this is just talking about gaster not existing, the points still there of events dictated from the beginning of each reset whether certain entities will even appear or events will happen. I get what youre saying though.

Also the same timeline being just being modified in the way sans was talking doesnt really make sense. He was using both plural and the present tense of timelines jumping, stopping and starting. If this were frisk repeatedly modifying the one timeline, then in basic english he would either not use plural for this, or give mention of what has happened and use past tense. Its like the difference between "dogs are biting my arm and leg" and "dog(s) bit my arm and leg". The first indicates your arm and leg being bitten at once. Second can indicate either that or having them bit at two different points. Sans dialogue here is clearly hinting at the current mess in timelines frisk created.

Control over the timeline was just the start of what asriel was going to do. There is the mention of flowey saying "everyone will be ripped from this timeline" though he also describes it as erasing everything (which is more close to what asriel and chara do) so his word is very shaky to take at face value.

For the asriel part. Flowey with six souls is able to bypass the barrier in some way by teleporting frisk so asriel nuking the timeline and leaving the barrier isnt out of the question. And Napstablook only reacted to flowey absorbing everyone. Its again, really questionable for asriel to say "its time to purge this timeline" in present tense, unleash an attack like what he did, and yet do nothing to the timeline.

 

[Agnaa]

The points that if frisk is truly just doing this with one timeline. Then why would goner kid just suddenly not exist anymore from frisk being in practically the exact same timeline. Him not appearing due to the number you are given after each reset much more heavily implies a new timeline is my point.

I do not understand this point.

Flowey with six souls is able to bypass the barrier in some way by teleporting frisk

What are you talking about?

Its again, really questionable for asriel to say "its time to purge this timeline" in present tense, unleash an attack like what he did, and yet do nothing to the timeline.

I do agree on this point tho. I interpreted it as Asriel nuking the timeline, bringing it back at the end of the fight, and then destroying the barrier.

 

[Theuser789]

Photoshop Flowey just crossed the barrier because he was stronger than the combination of a monster and a human soul

The barrier is probably just that durable, after all it was created with a magic spell and it needs the power of seven human souls to be destroyed which would make it equal to Asriel

 

[Eficiente]

All thats known about gaster is that he shattered across time and space (nothing suggests this being limited to one space time).

You're being either dishonest or ignorant about this, time and space are things of the universe, referring to more of those of other universes needs evidence. It can't just be across the multiverse just because nothing limited it to one space time, that's like saying that something timeline-related can just be multiversal-related because nothing limited it to one timeline.

Him not appearing due to the number you are given after each reset much more heavily implies a new timeline is my point. Even if this is just talking about gaster not existing, the points still there of events dictated from the beginning of each reset whether certain entities will even appear or events will happen. I get what youre saying though.

I know your point. I disagreed with your point, and gave the reasons for it. It's a headcanon.

Also the same timeline being just being modified in the way sans was talking doesnt really make sense. He was using both plural and the present tense of timelines jumping, stopping and starting. If this were frisk repeatedly modifying the one timeline, then in basic english he would either not use plural for this, or give mention of what has happened and use past tense. Its like the difference between "dogs are biting my arm and leg" and "dog(s) bit my arm and leg". The first indicates your arm and leg being bitten at once. Second can indicate either that or having them bit at two different points. Sans dialogue here is clearly hinting at the current mess in timelines frisk created.

I want to believe you didn't read the initial thing I had to say about the matter in the thread, because if you did, and you still think this holds any water, then we have a problem (which I don't think you care about). Do I need repeat over that? Everything or just a shorter, worst version of it? Will ask you to read to do something?

Control over the timeline was just the start of what asriel was going to do. There is the mention of flowey saying "everyone will be ripped from this timeline" though he also describes it as erasing everything (which is more close to what asriel and chara do) so his word is very shaky to take at face value.

Those last 10 words are the point you want to make here and you forget all the other things that should "also" be shaky to take at face value, like Gaster only being across time and space, Sans' reports and the anomaly being in only 1 timespace continuum, the repeated reference of everyone after LOADs and Resets are done as the same people before the LOADs and Resets were done (and not from other timelines), etc.

For the asriel part. Flowey with six souls is able to bypass the barrier in some way by teleporting frisk so asriel nuking the timeline and leaving the barrier isnt out of the question. And Napstablook only reacted to flowey absorbing everyone. Its again, really questionable for asriel to say "its time to purge this timeline" in present tense, unleash an attack like what he did, and yet do nothing to the timeline.

I do agree on this point tho. I interpreted it as Asriel nuking the timeline, bringing it back at the end of the fight, and then destroying the barrier.

I admit it's questionable, but let's recap

• 1. Asriel says it's time to purge the timeline.
• 2. Uses an attack that destroys everything we see.
• 3. Later he tells Frisk they're gonna die in a world where [stuff].
• 4. Right after that the text says that the world is ending.
• 5. After the battle the barrier is still there.
• 6. Napstablook doesn't say anything about having died, faint or that he briefly lost his memory, he talks about he avoided Asriel's light and after that he keeps talking but is oblivious to what should have been something notable.

So, if Asriel nuked the timeline then

• 2. Asriel nukes the timeline.
• 3. The dialogue is understandably inaccurate, the world is already gone.
• 4. The text is suspiciously inaccurate, the world is already gone.
• 5. The barrier has an insane durability, the human world and all the humans behind the barrier all were erased, even tho 7 alone created the barrier, but those were together and all of humanity is now alone.
• 6. It doesn't matter.

If Asriel didn't nuke the timeline with that attack then

• 1. Asriel says it's time to purge the timeline, he means that he will now destroy it, but not necessarily with his next attack.
• 3. The text is correct.
• 4. The text is correct again, and Asriel is doing that thing he said he was going to do.
• 5. Destroying everything we see doesn't count the barrier, let alone the humans.
• 6. Makes sense to not talk about Asriel's HG attack as he was outside of its range.

"I'm gonna destroy the timeline"->"Big attack" doesn't inhereditary mean the timeline got destroyed, in this context.

 

[Agnaa]

Hmm, you do make some good points.

But from another angle, this seems to make Asriel weaker than Photoshop Flowey, which would obviously be wrong.

 

[Eficiente]

I don't know how's that, but, for the sake of simplicity and having things done, I'm gonna drop that matter for this thread and bring it some other day. We should focus on the "Undertale having 1 timeline" part, I would like to hear what @Andytrenom and @The_real_cal_howard have to say about it (if they read the stuff about it, which starts here and continues with the rest of the thread but is relatively short).