Undertale god tier revision

[Read_this_post]

Is that text from deltarune? Because I don't think deltarune can be used for undertale.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Did you read the second to fourth line of the comment?

 

[Read_this_post]

I only managed to skim through it. As for Toby Fox's intent, in not even sure if he remembers everything in undertale and could have very well changed some things. But either way I'll look into it

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Going with the assumption that the author forgot how things work and is wrong... is not really a standard to use, especially when the subject of the discussion had no defined rules previously.

I am also 99% sure this is in a shared multiverse (Which, if proved, might affect chara's feat), just an alternate timeline or something.

 

[Read_this_post]

It is possible. One of the things that made me suspicious of it is during the Nintendo switch where the word "miss" is replaced with no damage. Plus Saving and loading probably isn't even a cannon gameplay mechanic like in undertale

Also if they are in the same multiverse then wouldn't it be destroyed if you did genocide?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The nintendo switch wasn't planned by toby, only the new additions were. The mechanics were changed by others to fit better.

I mean, it doesn't throw it in your face with the lack of tact flowey did, but how the hell do you interpret the dialouges about it?

See why I said Chara' s feat could be changed? There is a reason why they were put at possibly low 2-C

 

[Andytrenom]

>Also if they are in the same multiverse then wouldn't it be destroyed if you did genocide?

No because Chara only destroys one planet in Genocide ovo

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Planet? She only destroys a mountain man...

 

[Andytrenom]

She clearly only destroys a room, 9-A Chara at best.

Btw did you mean 2-c instead of low 2-C?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What are you talkin' about. They are just a child, 10-C tops.

Yeah, my bad.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Why do most undertale crt's die tough? Like, sans still can't absorb human souls, he diesn't have possible clairvoyance for the whole seeing your LV deal, and some monsters seems to lack soul manip.

 

[Andytrenom]

Maybe it wasn't an active franchise back then.

 

[Andytrenom]

Something that has occured to me, should Undyne the Undying and Mettaton neo be changed to "At least Town level"?

The reason they are Unknown right now is for the most part because they are either equal to or close to Chara's stats.

But since Chara's stats being 99 was seemingly debunked this should no longer be the case and lowballing them to tier 7 should be fine.

 

[Read_this_post]

Andytrenom Exactly what i have been thinking. As i mentioned i was planning a revision on all the low tiers after this is done which would involve them to. Although you or azathoth can change them now if you want.

Whilst we are on the topic, here is an accurate representation of how my revisions are currently going...

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Plus Saving and loading probably isn't even a cannon gameplay mechanic like in undertale

This has nothing to do with using SAVE and LOAD, only the files themselves.

 

[Read_this_post]

That too

 

[Arceus0x]

meanwhile toby fox (annoying dog) is watching this thread from the high high 2-A tier and sipping on some sea tea.

 

[Read_this_post]

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[Magi_Hussie]

@Andy EoG Chara's real ATK should be the 18 (number of 9s in a row) × 13 (number of 9s in a column) we can see on the screen which is 234 ATK (vastly more powerful than Genocide Frisk).

 

[Andytrenom]

@Magi That's a clear example of game mechanics. So no.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Andy You're well aware that will also mean that Chara's destruction of the game is also considered a game mechanic which was already established to not be the case by various people here (including me) and is a quantifiable feat. Not to mention that these Undertale characters are powerscaled to each other based on their ATK stats as the total attack output = their ATK value when added together, so....

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No it doesn't. They state they destroy the game, that has nothing to do with the numbers apearing anymore than them being 7-C has with the number being in the millions.

Also, you realize frisk did millions of damage while only having 99 attack, right? And that's assuming the 9's end with what is on the screen instead of just continuing.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ricsi "No it doesn't. They state they destroy the game, that has nothing to do with the numbers appearing anymore than them being 7-C has with the number being in the millions."

1.No, I never claimed that it was a game mechanic, not an actual feat (just mentioning this now just in case) which Andy was trying to imply from his claim which was established by everyone else here to not be the case.

"Also, you realize frisk did millions of damage while only having 99 attack, right? And that's assuming the 9's end with what is on the screen instead of just continuing."

2. Yea but that doesn't actually disprove my point as Genocide Frisk doing 10 "9s" amount of damage of Asgore adds up to 90 ATK, meaning they were holding back their full power for some odd reason since it supposed to be 11 "9s" instead. Also, idk how EoG Chara having a minimum of 234 ATK is somehow a bad thing when that easily proves they are superior to Genocide Frisk by a big margin and their total attack output = equal to their ATK value.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It is a game mechanic to aply like you said, Andy is right. I said that the game destruction has nothing to do with it.

You are being just ridicolous with that, and taking things far too litirally. Like, seriously, why do people try to go in depth in cosmology and the laws of undertale? It's like trying to understand Nocturnal.

 

[Read_this_post]

Oh no. Not this again.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ricsi I was clearly using the "by your logic" argument for Andy, you're just overcomplicating my explanation which isn't necessary. The game destruction shown EoG Chara's damage output to the game on the game, which can be easily converted to an exact ATK value of 234 (vastly superior to Genocide Frisk which also makes it accurate and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that my guy).

"Like, seriously, why do people try to go in depth in cosmology and the laws of undertale?"

That's me saying, "Why do we research fictional verses and it's respective characters in the first place anyways?"

Regardless, that formula/method is basically how you can find the exact ATK value of Genocide Frisk & EoG Chara and EoG Chara having a minimum 234 ATK doesn't contradict any scaling of the Undertale characters, so yea.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I once again point out that you are assuming that the 8s you see are all there are, when it could easily continue pas t the screen. And again, how exactly are you calculating the attack? An unarmed frisk can do ten 9s of damage to sans regardless, and the amount of damage varies greatly from enemy to enemy.

And for the last, there is a difference between trying to make some sense and overcomplicating it.

That is akin to trying to figure out a deep lore for my litte pony or going out of your way to try and make a complitly coherent story out of fnaf. It's impossible, because neither of those things actually exists, and while you can put your headcanons above that, it leads to a lot of inconsistencies.

Undertale, while not lacking on stuff to figure out, should not be looked with the same scrutiny as elder scrolls.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Ricsi

The formula to calculate the exact ATK value of Genocide Frisk & EoG Chara is simple. The total number of 9s you see on the screen = the exact ATK value, since there was a row of 18 "9s" and a column of 13 "9s," so multiply that together and you get 234 ATK. It's actually consistent (it appears to "varies" between each other because some monsters have higher defense than others, so the damage output is lower for them while the monsters with less defense is higher) and Sans was killed with a damage output of 7 "9s" being inflicted upon him, which equates 63 ATK (again, another instance where Genocide Frisk is holding back again since the damage output was supposed to be far higher than that).

Ignoring EoG Chara's exact ATK value which can be found through a simple formula does not make any sense at all and its the only reason why their destruction feat is considered as a quantifiable feat in the first place anyways.

I'm clearly using the information from the game itself of what we already know and if you're gonna mention "headcanons," automatically assuming that EoG Chara's damage ouput to the game itself is somehow "continuous" is merely just heavy speculation at best considering that there's no extra 9s appearing on the side of the screen that is almost impossible to see (there really isn't and I checked multiple times, especially the fact that knowing Toby, he really wouldn't put an infinite amount of 9s in the game anyways) nor the 9s are not appearing continuously in a forward directional loop (e.g. spinning a ball like its a spinning top) vertically/horizontally in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Andytrenom]

@Magi

....are you referring to Chara's 2-B level coming from the 218 digit number on the screen? If so that was already removed for being complete nonsense.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@Andy Yes, and it adds up to an ATK value of 234, not 218. Also yeah, I agree that the wording back then was very bad because whoever wrote that misunderstood what the damage output from Chara's attack really meant and confused it to timelines somehow.

Anyways I gtg now, so I'll answer any new posted responses in a later time.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

So is flowey tier 2 physically or with hax since you can drop his defense to 0?

 

[Read_this_post]

Still depends on how my revision goes. It may be done either late this month or next month (mid february at absolute latest). But it will be posted on a new thread with this being linked. This is just here incase anybody wants to drop new information.

 

[Timesmashaperil]

Photoshop Flowey's defense dropped to zero because the souls he had absorbed were fighting back against his control. Once he lost control of the souls, his powers weakened.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@SansTheSkeleton Photoshop Flowey is physically Low 2-C, at least 2-C with one of his haxes (which doesn't scale to his physical stats) he used to affect the entire game with to make his own pocket universe.

Photoshop Flowey's defense dropping to 0 was due to the 6 Human SOULs resisting his control over them (the 6 Human SOULs should probably get soul resistance because of that to an extent), so no. Frisk nor the Player has the power to do that.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Is that a necrobump I hear?

 

[DMB_1]

I don't see why this should be a necro. This CTR, while most of it was accepted, was never fully concluded not applied.

Besides, I'd barely consider this a necro.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah. Necro's aren't even a thing anymore.

 

[Read_this_post]

Yeah. I'm still gonna sort this out by mid February. At that point I can do it in my spare time during my holiday and not be tangled up in random debates on YouTube comment sections and work

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yeah. I'm still gonna sort this out by mid February. At that point I can do it in my spare time during my holiday and not be tangled up in random debates on YouTube comment sections and work

Okay, thank you.

 

[Apatheticskell]

Agreed with 2-C likely 2-B Asriel. I'm getting an iffy feeling about the rest though.