• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Undertale & Durability Negation: Fact, or Fiction?

Not sure if this supports durability negation but whatever about Mettaton soul, Mettaton has shown in his attacks that he is taking out his soul for use in the attack. We can notice several things about the soul of Metaton:

Metaton is more severely damaged when attacking his soul than when attacking his body

Check is described Metaton soul as his weak point
 
Read this post said:
Have you finished the downgrades? I wanted to make changes regarding speed.
Click to expand...
Go ahead.
 
Why did Mettaton lose his Durability negation? He can still use his Lazer that always makes your healths half what it is.
 
Hrm? I suppose it can be re-added then, under that context.
 
As far as the other stuff, has that been applied?

And with applying it. Shouldn't sans get most if not all his fights Nuked. Since it changed quite a few
 
Does it change Sans' fights? Sans was one of the few characters not affected very much.
 
I don't know entirely. I just saw this as a pretty notable change which may call for some removal or rematches. Even if he doesn't entirely lose bypassing durability since poison hacks. Certain fights do get negated, example. Like Naughty Bear (pre to removal due to other reasons), would be one that would need to be removed. Since naughty has extremely potent Resistance to poison. Sans poison couldn't effect his body, and neither his soul anymore.
 
Sans has durability negation even without the poison.
 
Wait, what? Was something brought up that I missed then, cause I haven't seen that if what the OP says is right
 
To quote the OP:

No Undertale profiles should have Durability Negation with the exception of Sans, who does not have it because of Soul Manipulation, but because of various other effects in-game that ignore your DEF stat outright.
 
Nope. He also ignores the DEF stat outright and always deals one damage. I think removing iframes might also be part of the reason for durability negation.

Being immune to poison wouldn't stop Sans from tearing through your HP.
 
I see. Well. I missed that part. But alright. That makes sense then. Same reason Papyrus keeps his then.

I'm not sure how I feel about that frame rate thing. Feels maybe kinda game mechanicy. But then again, what doesn't in undertale

It would at least slow the attack by a decent amount. The KARMA poison effect is what tears through it the fastest from my recollection to his fight. But he still can take them down decently fast with just normal attack. Just not nearly as fast
 
From how I remember the game, it works like:

  • Poison ticks down once every few frames.
  • Sans adds one unit of poison every single frame.
  • However, if you're fully poisoned, Sans does damage directly that frame instead.
So Sans actually does direct damage faster, but he only does direct damage once he can't poison any more.

I have no idea how this would interact with poison resistance though.
 
Now that I watch the fight. He oddly can't kill you until the poison level gets down low enough. In the spare video I watched. He bone attacked them, and they took damage until at 1 health, but their poison was at 50. And even then, they wouldn't die until the poison reached 1. His poison has to actually reach your health down that low by poison. else he can't kill you. He only does more rapid damage.

I would assume if we say sans fits the same logic of how he attacks. A poison resister probably is able to resist it. I don't entirely know though. On the fence on that atm
 
I'm honestly kind of curious as to how Soul Manipulation in Undertale is applicable compared to other forms of Soul Manipulation.

I mean, for just one example, it's seemingly physical. As mentioned, items that increase physical durability reduce soul damage, and physical attacks and ailments on the body seem to directly damage the soul, rather than the soul itself needing to be attacked through something akin to NPI.

With this in mind, manipulating a soul in Undertale is very different to manipulating a soul in... well, most fiction as it is. The main similarity is in the name; if Undertale souls were called something different they probably wouldn't even be considered souls at all as they don't meet much of the typical definitions.

So how do we even compare Undertale Soul Manip to other forms of Soul Manip at all? It should still be considered soul manip, mind you, but would someone capable of manipulating a soul in Undertale even be assumed to be capable of manipulating souls in most fiction? As mentioned above, physically interacting with a character in Undertale harms their soul, so if it's not necessarily NPI, could they manipulate non-physical souls directly?

To vastly oversimplify my point: Interacting with Undertale Souls doesn't require NPI, so people who can shouldn't necessarily have NPI. Interacting with souls in pretty much any other fictional verse does require NPI. So would people who can interact with Undertale Souls be able to interact with souls in other verses?
 
Sans does harm you without the poison too.

His poison takes 1 HP every few seconds. Each of his attacks adds a specific amount of poison (IIRC bones do 4 and blasters do 10)

He also does 1 HP damage per frame.

His poison cannot kill you. It only decreases you to 1HP. His normal 1HP per frame can kill you tough.

So dresisting poison isn't all that is needed, really.
 
They can interact with ghosts, and I don't think physical attacks harm souls by default. Magic specifically does as it does with ghosts, but Frisk never harms a soul even when attacking and can't harm ghosts at all.

I think it's more fair to say that UT souls just reflect the body's durability, not that a normal punch will also harm said soul. Like, the whole reason human souls are worth more is due to their physical bodies.

What I'm saying is that killing someone from UT won' t affect their soul by default. Monster souls break without their bodies, but human souls shouldn't. Likewise, they should be able to affect other souls too, with their magic.
 
They still get NIP as Ghosts in undertale are described as Non corporeal multiple times, Napstablock states it, when you check mad dummy it says so,....

And Magic can hurt Those Ghosts, so they get NPI
 
What were the conclusions here?
 
This thread was finished a very long time ago. Apparently, two instances of Durability Negation just need to be re-added.
 
These are still not added

  • Underground (Undertale) (Needs Soul Resistance removed)
  • Flowey (Needs Soul Manip changed, can keep Resistance)
  • Asriel Dreemurr (Needs a typo fixed (should be Amalgamates, not Almalgamates). Needs Soul Manipulation description updated. Should have his Soul Resistance definition slightly changed)
  • Sans (Soul Manip Resistance removed, and his Durability Negation slightly altered)
  • Frisk (Needs Soul Resistance removed)
Papyrus and Mettato should also get Durability Negation FRA
 
Adem Warlock69 said:
Why did Mettaton lose his Durability negation? He can still use his Lazer that always makes your healths half what it is.
Click to expand...
This feels like gameplay mechanics. I'm against it.
 
Actually, looking at the arguments for Papyrus and Mettaton, those both look like game mechanics.
 
Which, again, is just gameplay mechanics. KR is at the very least noted as different in universe by virtue of being a unique status effect. Papyrus and Mettaton just have attacks that deal set amounts of damage.
 
So i don't get it, this means that the monsters would need to damage your durability normaly in order to damage the soul, and thus they would only negate stuff like ressurection and low godly regen, but not durability? It that it?
 
Sans negates dura outside of KR by doing set damages without invulnerability, so those are still valid for dura negating as well
 
Thelastmlg said:
So i don't get it, this means that the monsters would need to damage your durability normaly in order to damage the soul, and thus they would only negate stuff like ressurection and low godly regen, but not durability? It that it?
Click to expand...
Yes
 
Most gameplay mechanics are canon in verse, Sans doesn't negate dura with only Karma, but because his regular attacks ignore the amount of defense you have dealing the same damage, which seems to aply to Mettaton and Papyrus
 
Theuser789 said:
Most gameplay mechanics are canon in verse, Sans doesn't negate dura with only Karma, but because his regular attacks ignore the amount of defense you have dealing the same damage, which seems to aply to Mettaton and Papyrus
Click to expand...
Blatantly false. His Durability Negation comes from KR.

Most gameplay mechanics are acknowledged in verse. These are not.
 
> Blatant false

Speak for yourself, Sans does 1 damage per frame no matter your def, that's not counting KR, this has been explained in multiple threads
 
Blatantly false. His Durability Negation comes from KR.

Most gameplay mechanics are acknowledged in verse. These are not.

Speaking of Game mechanics. There's one I want to know why we consider for him. The whole Sans ignores durability frame immunity after taking damage, which is why he does damage on an extremely rapid rate. Is this an acknowledge power he has?
 
Theuser789 said:
> Blatant false

Speak for yourself, Sans does 1 damage per frame no matter your def, that's not counting KR, this has been explained in multiple threads
Click to expand...
That's.... literally exactly what KR does. That's a part of KR.
 
Is some staff member willing to fix the relevant issues that Adem brought up?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

StrymULTRA
  • Locked
Undertale: 8-B, Class M, and more!
2
Replies
55
Views
4K
Propellus
Propellus
StrymULTRA
  • Locked
Undertale: Other minor fixes and additions
2
Replies
44
Views
3K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
TheOrangeGuy09
Undertale: 0-1 STATs, speed, stamina, and other things!
Replies
32
Views
888
TheOrangeGuy09
TheOrangeGuy09
Gooldiddy
UNDERTALE: size upgrade
Replies
0
Views
281
Gooldiddy
Gooldiddy
Monsters_fight
  • Locked
Undertale 0-3 ATK/DEF Buff
2 3
Replies
93
Views
3K
Monsters_fight
Monsters_fight
Back
Top