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Undertale & Durability Negation: Fact, or Fiction?

I can't read through the whole thread but here's my thoughts:

No, it's not dura neg. Toriel visibly notices you are hurt if you've lost HP against monsters in front of her home, so attacks harm the body too. Undyne's spear quite visibly breaks stuff, too.

We never see a soul being harmed without the body. Or, at least, we have no reason to assume the body is fine. It can just as easily said that the Soul reflects the harm done to the body, since it's the culmination of one's being.

Magic can still harm souls and ghosts so NPI is given instead.

Sans still negates resistance or durability or whatever. He ignores armor and reduces your invincibility rate to zero (or nearly zero if you wear the glasses that boost it). He does 1 HP damage per frame. The idea is that regardless of your DEF you take 1HP damage, always, and he's just hitting you a lot... because Sans takes game mechanics literally.
 
There are many reasons this is completely wrong, but id rather not get into it right now, especially given how full this thread already is. I guess you can make the changes for the time being. But i cant guaruntee it wont change.
 
Please link me on my wall if you make a rebuttal, Read. Otherwise, I'll move forward with the changes later today.
 
Papyrus also ignores your dura, doing a constant 4 damage, except when you have 4 or less HP, in which case you always stay alive.
 
Read this post said:
Ummm. Thats just weakening his attacks so you dont die.
Click to expand...
Not really. As long as you spare a single monster but level farm otherwise, you are still harmed a the same.
 
Im pretty sure taking less damage when closer to death happens a lot ingame. Someone taking less damage when nearer to death does not give the attacker durability negation at all.
 
Read this post said:
Im pretty sure taking less damage when closer to death happens a lot ingame. Someone taking less damage when nearer to death does not give the attacker durability negation at all.
Click to expand...
That is the exception to the rule dude. Regardless of you armor, level and DEF, papyrus always does 4 damage except when it would kill you.

So besides holding back before killing you, he ignores your dura all the way through his fight.
 
So, Papyrus keeps very, very weak durability negation, Sans keeps eh durability negation, everyone else loses it.
 
Adem Warlock69 said:
Is Papyrus the only monster that does the same damage no matter your defense?
Click to expand...
Besides Asriel eating the timeline always reducing you to 1 HP (which is you barely surviving cuz refuse and not him negating stuff).
 
1 Temmie Armor is a magic shield


Temmie Armor is a magical armor and I have evidence for that:


First, Temmie said that if Frisk wore this armor, every fight would become very easy, and there wouldn't be any challenge, which would seem an odd sentence if it were an ordinary armor.


Secondly, Temmie Armor can heal Frisk, which is clear evidence that it is a magical armor. In no way can a normal armor heal you.


Third, the fact that a magical armor is not something strange in Undertale because in Undeertale we have monsters that are made entirely of magic and they use magic in most matters of life, they have magical food and maybe the snow in Snowdeen may be magical too, we have already seen even armor It works magically in Undertale, It is Undyne's armor which increases her strength as it raises Undyne attack from 41 to 50

2 Armors in the game increases your durability with emotional bonding


I know this sounds strange, but the armor in Undertale is illogical to be protecting you from a physical attack I mean seriously how a cowboy hat or Bandanna might protect you from a physical attack so this seems to increase the durability of the soul with an emotional bonding that makes more sense, I have evidence First, the fact that Heart Locket is the most armor that protects you in the neutral route (after Temmie Armor of course) and this not without reason, but this is due to being a gift from Asgore to the first child on an occasion, something that was very close to the first child, and we can say the same thing about the rest of the armors due to the fact All armors in the game are the tools of humans who fell before Frisk so we can say the armors that raise the defense a lot are the ones that were very close to the humans who fell before Frisk and the Armors that raise the defense a little are those that were not close to the humans who fell before Frisk


Supportive arguments:


The cowboy hat feels Frisk manhood what increase his attack, something that must clearly indicate that feelings have an effect on Frisk's attack and defense.
 
First, Temmie said that if Frisk wore this armor, every fight would become very easy, and there wouldn't be any challenge, which would seem an odd sentence if it were an ordinary armor.

It could be magical and not protect the soul. It could also just be good armor.

Secondly, Temmie Armor can heal Frisk, which is clear evidence that it is a magical armor. In no way can a normal armor heal you.

A mundane stained apron can heal you. So yes, normal armor can heal you in Undertale.
 
I mean, Timmy's armor is not normal by armor standards in the real world

Also, what I tried to get to is that the armors in Undertale does not work like regular armors so it can protect the soul
 
Adem Warlock69 said:
Mad Dummy calls those Missiles Magic Missiles a.k.a the're the same as his normal attacks but more explosive,also even a Neutral Frisk that can kill Toriel can't kill Mad Dummy, and Mad Dummy has -40 Def, and if you check him they state he's immune to physical attacks, so the Magic attacks were attacking his Soul.
Click to expand...
Mad Dummy doesn't have -40 Def, he has "YES" Def. So we can't really scale how soul attacks affected the Mad Dummy to other stuff in the game.
 
@Lord JJJ Why would it be weird that wearing armor makes a fight easier? Armor is supposed to protect you from attacks to lessen the damage, I see nothing different from that with standard armor.

Healing armor? I guess you could argue that it's magic because of that, but I'm still doubtful as this is the same game that lets you heal if you put on a used band-aid.

This sounds more like headcanon, you need actual proof that Temmie's armor is specifically made out of magic. You would think Temmie or even the description state it's magic, but nope. Even certain characters in the game wear armor that looks standard. A lot of games have clothing that increases your defense or boosts your attack despite the fact it's just a common piece of clothing, this is all standard. Undertale is no exception. Frisk feeling manhood while wearing a cowboy hat is likely just her feeling more confident while wearing something like that as they are a child and can often pretend they're a different person by wearing a costume or something else.
 
Even with hard proof that it's 'made out of magic' that still offers literally zero direct evidence of protecting the soul, or durability negation.
 
Oh, does this mean we're removing Resistance to Soul Manipulation? Given that it's obviously Durability based, and the justification is that they can take attacks at their soul like a normal attack. Except they kinda are normal attacks.
 
Probably? We had another thread for removing Soul Manip Resistance (mainly off of fodder) that has kinda died off since this thread started, and I'd be happy to merge those changes.
 
Alright. I will remove it, as the two changes go hand-and-hand.
 
The page for Durability Negation states that Soul Manipulation negates durability, and that it can only be resisted by the strength of the soul. Does this need to be rewritten?
 
The page? No, it's just the Undertale's page that need to specify this as it's a clear exception.
 
I'm going to be making the changes. As it turns out, there are a lot of Undertale pages, so help would be appreciated.

All Soul Manipulation should say, Soul Manipulation (Can injure the soul through damaging the body with their regular attacks).

If I encounter any locked profiles, I'll link them here.

  • Flowey (Needs Soul Manip changed, can keep Resistance)
  • Asriel Dreemurr (Needs a typo fixed (should be Amalgamates, not Almalgamates). Needs Soul Manipulation description updated. Should have his Soul Resistance definition slightly changed)
  • Sans (Need Soul Manip changed, Resistance removed, and his Durability Negation slightly altered)
  • Frisk (Needs Soul Resistance removed)
If I missed anything, please tell me! I believe I got it all.
 
I have a question, why don't we just assume nearly everything in the underground is just magical? So many diffrent effects are just aqurired by equipment in general in Undertale, so assuming that they're mundane actually makes less sense then assuming that their magic. This would also explain why the stats for the items are all just over the place.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I have a question, why don't we just assume nearly everything in the underground is just magical? So many diffrent effects are just aqurired by equipment in general in Undertale, so assuming that they're mundane actually makes less sense then assuming that their magic. This would also explain why the stats for the items are all just over the place.
Click to expand...
The further we delve into raw assumptions, the more our profiles are based on raw headcanon.
 
But that's not a raw assumption, Undertale isn't just another RPG where these numbers of meaningless and seprated from the narrative itself. Plus, we also have the fact that all items equpied are associated with a soul and have an effect, bar the first two items which each come directly from the human world when the game starts. So saying that they're aren't magic makes less sense then saying that they are magic.
 
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