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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

RinneItachi said:
Confirmed Gaster feats/statements/scaling:

Should scale to Alphys' and Sans' intelligence feats.

Made the CORE.

Made the True Lab.

Made the Determination Extractor.

Stated to have 666,666 HP 66,666 ATK and 66,666 DEF in the files (though questionable if true or not).

Has performed many feats of 4th wall awareness and has some degree of control over game data at least.

Possibly vanishes/teleports, if the Mystery Man is Gaster.

Possibly causes technology to malfunction simply by being present.

Shattered across time and space and in a perpetual state of non-existence.




Implied Gaster feats/statements/scaling:

Likely made Deltarune and potentially has control over entire timelines based on this. (I like to think he'll have plot manipulation)

Possibly views the world of the games as fictional, which could be an argument for a tier if true.

Undertale and Deltarune instantly reset to the beginning if you try to name the fallen human, vessel, or yourself Gaster. But whether this is an ability of Gaster or an effect of his nature is debatable.

Has seemingly effected the real internet, though inapplicable for Vs. Wiki, for obvious reasons.

Possibly erased one of his followers, though very unclear.

Possible possession assuming he possessed Monster Kid, though very unlikely.

Very heavily implied to have some relation to space-time.

Very heavily implied to have a relation, possibly familial, to Sans, and can almost definitely use Gaster Blaster's seeing as they are literally named after him.



Probably forgetting some minor things but that's pretty much it.
Click to expand...
There’s really no evidence that Gaster made the deltarune universe, and him viewing the game as fiction would really just be his typical higher level 4th wall awareness
 
I like to think Gaster's physical stats won't be that crazy, but he'll have insane hax that'll get him into tier 2.
 
ZillertheBucko said:
There’s really no evidence that Gaster made the deltarune universe, and him viewing the game as fiction would really just be his typical higher level 4th wall awareness
Click to expand...
Gaster being extremely implied to have been the one speaking on Twitter, the one that released Deltarune, saying repeatedly that he was waiting with anticipation to show his creation to the world, talking to us in the program files before downloading it, talking to us right after we open the game, in addition to Entry Number Seventeen in which he mentions an experiment, and everything else, counts as "no evidence"?

Viewing a whole thing as literally fictional means you need to be above it on some metaphysical level. The implication here seems to less be that Gaster is a character within the game interacting with the real world and more that Gaster exists above the game and is giving us the means to play it.
 
ZillertheBucko said:
From a character standpoint Spamton is better than Jevil in basically every way honestly
Click to expand...
Well, yeah, Spamton had an entire character arc, he was almost as prevalent of a character as Queen.
Whereas Jevil had much fewer interactions, and the only other supplementary information we have of him is just from Seam and Spamton himself, mostly.

Anyways, Sans for me is still the most difficult, and Spamton Normal Route being the easiest. The former took ungodly number of tries, while I beat Spamton in one try.
 
Also agree that Gaster hasn't been portrayed in both games in any concrete manner that would warrant him having a profile. Dude's more like a creepypasta and that's by design.
 
Metalballrun said:
Also agree that Gaster hasn't been portrayed in both games in any concrete manner that would warrant him having a profile. Dude's more like a creepypasta and that's by design.
Click to expand...
He's basically ARG

And about those feats ^ there's more, I will elaborate later
 
RinneItachi said:
Gaster being extremely implied to have been the one speaking on Twitter, the one that released Deltarune, saying repeatedly that he was waiting with anticipation to show his creation to the world, talking to us in the program files before downloading it, talking to us right after we open the game, in addition to Entry Number Seventeen in which he mentions an experiment, and everything else, counts as "no evidence"?

Viewing a whole thing as literally fictional means you need to be above it on some metaphysical level. The implication here seems to less be that Gaster is a character within the game interacting with the real world and more that Gaster exists above the game and is giving us the means to play it.
Click to expand...
I mean if we go by this it seems Gaster (through our commands) is the one to delete save files in chapter 1
 
RinneItachi said:
Confirmed Gaster feats/statements/scaling:

Should scale to Alphys' and Sans' intelligence feats.

Made the CORE.

Made the True Lab.

Made the Determination Extractor.

Stated to have 666,666 HP 66,666 ATK and 66,666 DEF in the files (though questionable if true or not).

Has performed many feats of 4th wall awareness and has some degree of control over game data at least.

Possibly vanishes/teleports, if the Mystery Man is Gaster.

Possibly causes technology to malfunction simply by being present.

Shattered across time and space and in a perpetual state of non-existence.




Implied Gaster feats/statements/scaling:

Likely made Deltarune and potentially has control over entire timelines based on this. (I like to think he'll have plot manipulation)

Possibly views the world of the games as fictional, which could be an argument for a tier if true.

Undertale and Deltarune instantly reset to the beginning if you try to name the fallen human, vessel, or yourself Gaster. But whether this is an ability of Gaster or an effect of his nature is debatable.

Has seemingly effected the real internet, though inapplicable for Vs. Wiki, for obvious reasons.

Possibly erased one of his followers, though very unclear.

Possible possession assuming he possessed Monster Kid, though very unlikely.

Very heavily implied to have some relation to space-time.

Very heavily implied to have a relation, possibly familial, to Sans, and can almost definitely use Gaster Blaster's seeing as they are literally named after him.



Probably forgetting some minor things but that's pretty much it.
Click to expand...
Likely Power nullification because when we get into Annoying Dog's room through debug mode, he appears, nullifies our cheats and other stuff and crashes the game, commenting "..."

Serious Information Manipulation for obvious reasons.

Likely Time travel, since everytime Kris dies, he appears at the end, asking us if we want to continue, if we do, he says "Future is in your hands", and throws Kris back into the past, to their last save file.

Creation. Obvious reasons. But, timeline creation in the menu and Deltarune creation. Vessel creation also, I think.

Prob other stuff.
But saying about R>F, then this works too, since Gaster said in abc123.ogg "Don't spoil the game" and "if you post it online, I won't make any more secrets." Also, it need to be said that Gaster initials are "abc", he puts it in most of the places, for example Demonabc, abc123.ogg, redactedA, abc111.png and even the information of the world are labelled as A(neutral), B(Pacifist), C(Genocide)
 
Also it worth noting that Gaster scared the shit out of demonabc
 
RinneItachi said:
**** it, I'm gonna do a funny and waste the question. There is literally a negative percent chance he will "answer" this, but I'm hoping he'll somehow see it just cause. God I'm unoriginal.

image.png
Click to expand...
I understand you, I didn't know what to ask either, I ended up sending this:
Have you thought about making a cookbook?
Click to expand...
Nothing good came to mind
 
Recon1511 said:
I mean if we go by this it seems Gaster (through our commands) is the one to delete save files in chapter 1
Click to expand...

Late to respond but yes I agree. Obviously there's not enough concrete evidence to say this is Gaster for sure or that it's his abilities doing it. However the implications are, quite obviously, there.

Though what I wonder is if it would warrant Low 2-C hax rating. For the same reason we don't give Omega Flowey Low 2-C.

Pointless to ponder for now though, I'm sure we'll get plenty of juicy Gaster lore in the years to come.
 
RinneItachi said:
Late to respond but yes I agree. Obviously there's not enough concrete evidence to say this is Gaster for sure or that it's his abilities doing it. However the implications are, quite obviously, there.
Click to expand...
Gaster said in Twitter that HE will ask us, then make a things, also in website in 2018 it was updated, saying something. So yeah, that's Gaster for sure
RinneItachi said:
Though what I wonder is if it would warrant Low 2-C hax rating. For the same reason we don't give Omega Flowey Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
It was valid for the Player, who got the L2c back in old days, it just them being upgraded to 2b
 
Tbh, Chara should have 3 keys. Human, Absolute/Demon, and Post-Genocide, and all Determination related abilities should be moved to the new one in addition to some extra.

Chara very explicitly states that their Determination and human soul belong to us (the player), and that it is what brought them back from death, from there on, Chara was linked to our soul spiritually, and was thus reliant on our Determination to stay present, which is where their type 8 immortality comes from in the first place. But over the course of the Genocide Route, presumably through gaining LOVE, Chara becomes powerful enough to destroy the game in one strike and is also powerful enough that they no longer need us and have greater control over the game than we do. However Chara clearly doesn't have our Determination, they literally say they don't, and don't have any of our hax.

But at the very end of a Genocide Route we can choose to give Chara our soul so that they can bring the world back. And they do, but also live on with the same level of power from before from there on out and will continue to remind us of the consequences we must face for our actions, preventing us from ever doing a Pacifist Route again. Giving Chara our soul would by default grant them all of the hax that the player's soul does, which is honestly pretty much all of Frisk's decent hax.

Worth also adding a "possibly Creation" to their page, as it's implied they recreated the world rather than just using time manipulation. Chara erased everything, including time, which is why we can't Reset. How would Chara be able to Reset if we can't, even if they have our soul? It definitely wasn't time manipulation, but because we don't know their exact methods, a "possibly Creation" seems more reasonable.

AP and other physical stats should remain the same but probably with an "At least" and "likely higher". Absolute Chara destroyed the entire game casually with one strike, and a Chara who has our soul should be unfathomably above that, remember that the player's soul is so powerful, it could still rival God Asriel's Determination, and Chara has that in addition to their base power.

Frisk's profile could also use a heavy change for that. I mean, is it not considered common knowledge that the red soul is the player's soul? Frisk is a vessel being empowered and also controlled by the player and our Determination. It was already implied back in Undertale's original release and recent evidence has just made it blatantly obvious.

Though even if that isn't accepted to be true, the change I proposed for Chara would remain the same otherwise.
 
Also, crackpot theory I had at work:

Gaster is Satan, or rather the Tobyverse version of Satan. Not only does he have a heavy link to the number 6 (the number 666 is explicitly linked to the devil), but he's also extremely associated with darkness (Satan is usually related to fire and brimstone but darkness is something that could also be applied to demons in general), and Gaster's whole backstory is about falling into his own creation, with the wording intentionally left vague, whereas Lucifer, the devil, was a fallen angel. Gaster is also known for being not just intelligent but clearly manipulative and a bit of a puppeteer type of character, especially with his actions towards the secret bosses in Deltarune (the devil is a manipulator, I mean shit there's literally a saying to never make a deal with the devil, and it's implied that Spamton made a deal with probably Gaster which is what lead to his downfall).

Whereas Noelle is obviously the angel, at least in Deltarune, it's not even a theory at this point (Spamton literally said it in the sweepstakes on top of other evidence). And both Undertale and Deltarune have had HEAVY religious themes sprinkled around carefully and thoughtfully by Toby.

Current theory; Gaster is making moves to control Noelle and make her a fallen angel as well for his plans.
 
RinneItachi said:
Current theory; Gaster is making moves to control Noelle and make her a fallen angel as well for his plans.
Click to expand...
Ya know that Gaster already sealed Angel's fate, saying that fun gang will crack the shit out of heavens and angel?
 
What's wrong? Magnitude 3 earthquakes are needed to be felt and make vibrations (rumble).

By the way, in Asgore's weakness section, this is mentioned:
"He may falter in the midst of battle if he is doing something he knows is wrong (e.g., fighting a child)."

Is there any proof of this? Or it's just speculation?
 
Last edited:
But it's really because Frisk is a child?
 
Therefir said:
What's wrong? Magnitude 3 earthquakes are needed to be felt and make vibrations (rumble).
Click to expand...
"Shaking a minor area should not be assumed to automatically translate to an earthquake. Either a large area being shaken or evidence that we are dealing with something earthquake-like and not just some minor shaking would be needed."
 
I know, that's why we assumed the battlefield involved the castle.

Even just the roof of the castle is big enough to qualify, actually.
 
I don't really understand the 9-C calc for Light World Kris

Also them being able to lift 3 tons according to it, just doesn't feel right at all
 
Recon1511 said:
I don't really understand the 9-C calc for Light World Kris

Also them being able to lift 3 tons according to it, just doesn't feel right at all
Click to expand...
Kris moves their entire body, really fast.

We can get lifting strength from jumps, Kris can generate several tons of force with their legs.
 
Therefir said:
I know, we assumed the battlefield involved the castle.

Even just the roof of the castle is big enough to qualify.
Click to expand...
No reason to assume that, AFAIK

It wouldn't qualify even if it was the entire castle, Earthquakes are usually several kilometers deep

Recon1511 said:
I don't really understand the 9-C calc for Light World Kris

Also them being able to lift 3 tons according to it, just doesn't feel right at all
Click to expand...
They pushed their weight like it was made of feathers, making it accelerate to insane speeds instantly
That's it

9-C comes from the KE of their entire body which must've been generated from their own push
 
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