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UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE [shiny new] DISCUSSION THEAD

spangry NEO on snowgrave route could be argued as being almost as hard as sans if you don't use the rapid charge shot beyond activating the rage
with the charge shots though, both spamton fights are easier than Jevil.
 
I beat Jevil 3rd try, spamton neo snowgrave took me like 100
although I am skilled now, so a secret boss will never do that to me again...
I've no hit jevil and basement NEO now
 
Anyway, I was reading Noelle's blogposts and this one in particular is really weird


All of the characters just seem so OOC and Susie's bullying is like 20 times worse.

I found this Reddit post that goes in-depth about it



You can read the post on its entirety (though the OP is a bit rebudant and fixates on some irrelevant stuff) but the theory here is that the reality where the blog post comes from is an alternate reality that we can get a glimpse of when we use the Glass (Shadow Crystal in the Dark World) in the Light World
  • You looked through the glass.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment... [First use]
      • You thought you saw through your hand. [Alone]
      • You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly... [Followed by Susie]
        • But when you moved the glass away,
        • You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.
Kris sees through the glass a version of Susie that glares at him coldly with contempt but when they move the glass away they see Susie being friendly.

Which makes sense considering that the Susie from Noelle's blogpost genuinely hates Kris.
 
Last edited:
From a character standpoint Spamton is better than Jevil in basically every way honestly
Spamton is more fleshed out in terms of his relationships, personality traits, backstory, and having an actual character arc.
Jevil’s existence is honestly just there to be a preview for the secret boss formula, showing that a relatively normal guy meets Gaster and learns the world is a game and goes insane. Jevil’s archetype is that before meeting Gaster, he was just a jester meant to entertain, and so after finding out the truth, he just continued to entertain himself as nothing mattered.
Spamton is a normal salesman, but the big difference between him and Jevil is ambition. Before meeting Gaster, he had always aimed to be a [Big Shot] despite things being stacked against him. After his encounter with Gaster he continued to be ambitious and try to take control back. Basically they keep the same core character trait and it was just amplified, and that’s why Spamton is basically just better. Jevil’s character was cool and all, but the point was that he doesn’t really matter and didn’t have any goal. Spamton on the other hand had big goals and that’s what drives his subplot forward and makes him more like able to me tbh. He’s also just funnier and has better songs.
 
It's implied that Spamton and Jevil used to play games together and were probably a couple before breaking up
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
In terms of difficulty, I'd say Sans > Spamton NEO (Snowgrave Route) > Jevil >>> Spamton NEO (Normal Route)
Click to expand...
For me:

Difficulty-Sans>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.>Spamton NEO (Snowgrave)>>>Jevil>Spamton Neo (Normal).

Sans was WAAAY harder for me than most people I'm ngl. I am not joking, Sans killed me over 250 times, it took me a week, fighting him like it was a part-time job, until I got my first win. Then out of spite I got so good at his fight I could almost no hit him and beat him 50 times until I got tired.

In terms of how much I like the characters:

Jevil is cool and I like his gimmicks a lot, and The World Revolving just slaps (though not nearly as good as BIG SHOT imo and can't even be reasonably compared to Megalovania), but he's still a rather empty character in terms of motivations, backstory, etc., and has very little compelling or emotional aspects unlike Spamton and Sans. He's just fun, plain and simple, which, admittedly, fits his character pretty well. But definitely the last of the 3 in question.

Spamton is a huge step above Jevil. Being a "secret" boss but still at least appearing in the main story and being easy to find, it's less a matter of finding out he exists and more a matter of taking the time and effort to reach his boss fight, which I like as it's unique from Toby's other secret bosses in general. He's a somewhat compelling and emotionally driven character, but not so relatable and sympathetic that I just go "I love you Toby but we've done this a lot already in Undertale", he's in a really grey area in terms of his morality, which is welcomed, as most of Toby's characters are either on one side, or at least, not AS close to the center as Spamton is. Moving on from that, Spamton can be pretty funny, especially with his dialogue, but I think a lot of people undersell the somewhat disturbing moments he does have, even if brief. In particular, the lines about him saying "IT BURNS" and literally begging for help actually made me feel for the guy, wondering what he might REALLY be going for under the surface, and people have talked about "Mike" so much already. His obvious connections to Gaster and whoever Gaster might also be (possibly the Knight but I think it's too obvious, I would opt for the belief that Gaster has a relation to the Knight), but not so obvious that it becomes overbearing. I could go on, but Spamton is a great character, in fact he's my number 1 for Deltarune so far in general.

Sans. Do I even need to say anything? Lol I could legit make a 1,000 word essay on how great of a character Sans is. But I'd be beating a dead cow at this point with how popular Sans is. There's a REASON he's literally become more popular than Undertale/Deltarune as a whole. Granted I think he's a LITTLE overrated, but he is an amazing character nonetheless.
 
Recon1511 said:
Anyway, I was reading Noelle's blogposts and this one in particular is really weird


All of the characters just seem so OOC and Susie's bullying is like 20 times worse.

I found this Reddit post that goes in-depth about it



You can read the post on its entirety (though the OP is a bit rebudant and fixates on some irrelevant stuff) but the theory here is that the reality where the blog post comes from is an alternate reality that we can get a glimpse of when we use the Glass (Shadow Crystal in the Dark World) in the Light World
  • You looked through the glass.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment... [First use]
      • You thought you saw through your hand. [Alone]
      • You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly... [Followed by Susie]
        • But when you moved the glass away,
        • You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.
Kris sees through the glass a version of Susie that glares at him coldly with contempt but when they move the glass away they see Susie being friendly.

Which makes sense considering that the Susie from Noelle's blogpost genuinely hates Kris.
Click to expand...

VERY, VERY INTERESTING.

Where was this blog post at btw? I remember seeing Noelle's blog on the Spamton Sweepstakes thing but I haven't seen this yet. Some of this stuff is so obscure.
 
Over 10,000 people already sent a message for Papyrus. Dear god.

I'm still thinking on what to send. It has to be good. I'm sure a lot of people sent questions that Toby wouldn't answer (Papyrus' theoretical true power, relation to Gaster, etc.), or would dodge the questions through some form of joke, so I'm gonna try to do something different.
 
**** it, I'm gonna do a funny and waste the question. There is literally a negative percent chance he will "answer" this, but I'm hoping he'll somehow see it just cause. God I'm unoriginal.

image.png
 
RinneItachi said:
For me:

Difficulty-Sans>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.>Spamton NEO (Snowgrave)>>>Jevil>Spamton Neo (Normal).

Sans was WAAAY harder for me than most people I'm ngl. I am not joking, Sans killed me over 250 times, it took me a week, fighting him like it was a part-time job, until I got my first win. Then out of spite I got so good at his fight I could almost no hit him and beat him 50 times until I got tired.

In terms of how much I like the characters:

Jevil is cool and I like his gimmicks a lot, and The World Revolving just slaps (though not nearly as good as BIG SHOT imo and can't even be reasonably compared to Megalovania), but he's still a rather empty character in terms of motivations, backstory, etc., and has very little compelling or emotional aspects unlike Spamton and Sans. He's just fun, plain and simple, which, admittedly, fits his character pretty well. But definitely the last of the 3 in question.

Spamton is a huge step above Jevil. Being a "secret" boss but still at least appearing in the main story and being easy to find, it's less a matter of finding out he exists and more a matter of taking the time and effort to reach his boss fight, which I like as it's unique from Toby's other secret bosses in general. He's a somewhat compelling and emotionally driven character, but not so relatable and sympathetic that I just go "I love you Toby but we've done this a lot already in Undertale", he's in a really grey area in terms of his morality, which is welcomed, as most of Toby's characters are either on one side, or at least, not AS close to the center as Spamton is. Moving on from that, Spamton can be pretty funny, especially with his dialogue, but I think a lot of people undersell the somewhat disturbing moments he does have, even if brief. In particular, the lines about him saying "IT BURNS" and literally begging for help actually made me feel for the guy, wondering what he might REALLY be going for under the surface, and people have talked about "Mike" so much already. His obvious connections to Gaster and whoever Gaster might also be (possibly the Knight but I think it's too obvious, I would opt for the belief that Gaster has a relation to the Knight), but not so obvious that it becomes overbearing. I could go on, but Spamton is a great character, in fact he's my number 1 for Deltarune so far in general.

Sans. Do I even need to say anything? Lol I could legit make a 1,000 word essay on how great of a character Sans is. But I'd be beating a dead cow at this point with how popular Sans is. There's a REASON he's literally become more popular than Undertale/Deltarune as a whole. Granted I think he's a LITTLE overrated, but he is an amazing character nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Based
 
Recon1511 said:
Anyway, I was reading Noelle's blogposts and this one in particular is really weird


All of the characters just seem so OOC and Susie's bullying is like 20 times worse.

I found this Reddit post that goes in-depth about it



You can read the post on its entirety (though the OP is a bit rebudant and fixates on some irrelevant stuff) but the theory here is that the reality where the blog post comes from is an alternate reality that we can get a glimpse of when we use the Glass (Shadow Crystal in the Dark World) in the Light World
  • You looked through the glass.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment... [First use]
      • You thought you saw through your hand. [Alone]
      • You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly... [Followed by Susie]
        • But when you moved the glass away,
        • You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.
Kris sees through the glass a version of Susie that glares at him coldly with contempt but when they move the glass away they see Susie being friendly.

Which makes sense considering that the Susie from Noelle's blogpost genuinely hates Kris.
Click to expand...

Also, completely ignoring the point of it but noteworthy that Noelle mentions apple seeds being poisonous and to not eat them. Obviously, if she were made out of nothing but dust and magic, things like toxins should logically have no effect, but there have been many implications that Monster's generally do have organs and such anatomy (it was said previously that Catty has a stomach in the alarm clock thing I believe). Furthermore, Berdly doesn't turn to dust on Snowgrave. However we know Deltarune Monster's still are the same as one of the NPC's outright mentions humans being made of blood and flesh. Very weird.
 
Recon1511 said:
Anyway, I was reading Noelle's blogposts and this one in particular is really weird


All of the characters just seem so OOC and Susie's bullying is like 20 times worse.

I found this Reddit post that goes in-depth about it



You can read the post on its entirety (though the OP is a bit rebudant and fixates on some irrelevant stuff) but the theory here is that the reality where the blog post comes from is an alternate reality that we can get a glimpse of when we use the Glass (Shadow Crystal in the Dark World) in the Light World
  • You looked through the glass.
    • For some strange reason, for just a brief moment... [First use]
      • You thought you saw through your hand. [Alone]
      • You thought you saw Susie glaring at you, coldly... [Followed by Susie]
        • But when you moved the glass away,
        • You see her looking at you, smiling and making a rude gesture.
Kris sees through the glass a version of Susie that glares at him coldly with contempt but when they move the glass away they see Susie being friendly.

Which makes sense considering that the Susie from Noelle's blogpost genuinely hates Kris.
Click to expand...

Also, instinctive reactions for Kris? I believe Kris was still laying their head down and ignoring Susie when Susie threw the apple, but they casually reacted, blocking it with a notepad and then catching it in mid-air.
 
Well, tbh Gaster actually interferes in game a lot
Every time Kris dies, he just comes and asks our opinion.
 
Originlima said:
And it's... really interesting, that Gaster canonically owns both Undertale and Deltarune

Royal Sciences, LLC Trademarks :: Justia Trademarks

trademarks.justia.com trademarks.justia.com
Click to expand...
Looked into it. Yeah, even on Spotify, the Deltarune soundtrack is owned by Royal Sciences. It's consistent. And obviously there is absolutely no question this relates to Gaster. Of the countless names Toby could have made, with the only royal scientist besides Gaster being Alphys (a relatively minor member of Undertale's main cast who largely has little interest among the fanbase), there's literally zero chance it's a coincidence.

Though it's not the most shocking thing, there are plenty of implications even besides this that Gaster canonically owns Deltarune as a video game in a fully literal sense, and has plenty of awareness of the real world, obviously the most notorious instance being when he pretty clearly talks to us on Twitter after "hacking" into the Undertale/Deltarune Twitter. Most evidence suggests Gaster is quite literally on the level of a game developer, if not writer, at least for Deltarune. I mean, he's literally the one that released it, and as everyone knows, the original Deltarune download explicitly has Gaster speaking to us and telling us it's more of a test/survey, which is further implied with chapter 2. And Gaster spoke on the Deltarune website way before chapter 1 was released, two times in fact. I remember MatPat even making a game theory claiming that Gaster is Toby Fox or something, which is definitely not true. But I digress.

In any case, there's no question that Gaster has a much larger degree of importance than what we know, and I expect him to have heavy 4th wall shenanigans, when the time comes. Hopefully he gets good feats out of it as well, for an actual appropriate Gaster page to be made.

Also, I have absolute, supreme confidence that the experiment in Entry Number Seventeen is Deltarune. It just fits too well.
 
RinneItachi said:
Looked into it. Yeah, even on Spotify, the Deltarune soundtrack is owned by Royal Sciences. It's consistent. And obviously there is absolutely no question this relates to Gaster. Of the countless names Toby could have made, with the only royal scientist besides Gaster being Alphys (a relatively minor member of Undertale's main cast who largely has little interest among the fanbase), there's literally zero chance it's a coincidence.

Though it's not the most shocking thing, there are plenty of implications even besides this that Gaster canonically owns Deltarune as a video game in a fully literal sense, and has plenty of awareness of the real world, obviously the most notorious instance being when he pretty clearly talks to us on Twitter after "hacking" into the Undertale/Deltarune Twitter. Most evidence suggests Gaster is quite literally on the level of a game developer, if not writer, at least for Deltarune. I mean, he's literally the one that released it, and as everyone knows, the original Deltarune download explicitly has Gaster speaking to us and telling us it's more of a test/survey, which is further implied with chapter 2. And Gaster spoke on the Deltarune website way before chapter 1 was released, two times in fact. I remember MatPat even making a game theory claiming that Gaster is Toby Fox or something, which is definitely not true. But I digress.

In any case, there's no question that Gaster has a much larger degree of importance than what we know, and I expect him to have heavy 4th wall shenanigans, when the time comes. Hopefully he gets good feats out of it as well, for an actual appropriate Gaster page to be made.

Also, I have absolute, supreme confidence that the experiment in Entry Number Seventeen is Deltarune. It just fits too well.
Click to expand...
Gaster is gonna have a busted NEP
 
RinneItachi said:
Looked into it. Yeah, even on Spotify, the Deltarune soundtrack is owned by Royal Sciences. It's consistent. And obviously there is absolutely no question this relates to Gaster. Of the countless names Toby could have made, with the only royal scientist besides Gaster being Alphys (a relatively minor member of Undertale's main cast who largely has little interest among the fanbase), there's literally zero chance it's a coincidence.

Though it's not the most shocking thing, there are plenty of implications even besides this that Gaster canonically owns Deltarune as a video game in a fully literal sense, and has plenty of awareness of the real world, obviously the most notorious instance being when he pretty clearly talks to us on Twitter after "hacking" into the Undertale/Deltarune Twitter. Most evidence suggests Gaster is quite literally on the level of a game developer, if not writer, at least for Deltarune. I mean, he's literally the one that released it, and as everyone knows, the original Deltarune download explicitly has Gaster speaking to us and telling us it's more of a test/survey, which is further implied with chapter 2. And Gaster spoke on the Deltarune website way before chapter 1 was released, two times in fact. I remember MatPat even making a game theory claiming that Gaster is Toby Fox or something, which is definitely not true. But I digress.

In any case, there's no question that Gaster has a much larger degree of importance than what we know, and I expect him to have heavy 4th wall shenanigans, when the time comes. Hopefully he gets good feats out of it as well, for an actual appropriate Gaster page to be made.

Also, I have absolute, supreme confidence that the experiment in Entry Number Seventeen is Deltarune. It just fits too well.
Click to expand...
Gaster is a bit of too much ARG
Ya know, sometimes someone says that "isn't in game - not canon", but it doesn't work when you come in contact with ARG stuff.

Deltarune heart is a connection between our world and Deltarune's world, also I need to say that Deltarune's terms of agreements is
"YOU ACCEPT EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN FROM NOW ON"
The fatal mistake others make happens when they consider Gaster as a game-bounded character, who is bounded by the game and game's logic, but...
He's above and both outside.
 
Originlima said:
Gaster is a bit of too much ARG
Ya know, sometimes someone says that "isn't in game - not canon", but it doesn't work when you come in contact with ARG stuff.

Deltarune heart is a connection between our world and Deltarune's world, also I need to say that Deltarune's terms of agreements is
"YOU ACCEPT EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN FROM NOW ON"
The fatal mistake others make happens when they consider Gaster as a game-bounded character, who is bounded by the game and game's logic, but...
He's above and both outside.
Click to expand...
Its rude to talk about people that are listening
 
ShionAH said:
Its rude to talk about people that are listening
Click to expand...
I know, srry, but I just had to say that:skull:

But, discussing Gaster, he is capable of overwriting(why this ability isn't on Player's page already?), copying, erasing and creating the timelines with ease in Deltarune, also being capable of crushing the game and a lot of other stuff.

He has busted Hax in canon tho
 
Confirmed Gaster feats/statements/scaling:

Should scale to Alphys' and Sans' intelligence feats.

Made the CORE.

Made the True Lab.

Made the Determination Extractor.

Stated to have 666,666 HP 66,666 ATK and 66,666 DEF in the files (though questionable if true or not).

Has performed many feats of 4th wall awareness and has some degree of control over game data at least.

Possibly vanishes/teleports, if the Mystery Man is Gaster.

Possibly causes technology to malfunction simply by being present.

Shattered across time and space and in a perpetual state of non-existence.




Implied Gaster feats/statements/scaling:

Likely made Deltarune and potentially has control over entire timelines based on this. (I like to think he'll have plot manipulation)

Possibly views the world of the games as fictional, which could be an argument for a tier if true.

Undertale and Deltarune instantly reset to the beginning if you try to name the fallen human, vessel, or yourself Gaster. But whether this is an ability of Gaster or an effect of his nature is debatable.

Has seemingly effected the real internet, though inapplicable for Vs. Wiki, for obvious reasons.

Possibly erased one of his followers, though very unclear.

Possible possession assuming he possessed Monster Kid, though very unlikely.

Very heavily implied to have some relation to space-time.

Very heavily implied to have a relation, possibly familial, to Sans, and can almost definitely use Gaster Blaster's seeing as they are literally named after him.



Probably forgetting some minor things but that's pretty much it.
 
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