Kris vs King Asgore (7-0-0)

[StrymULTRA]

this also would make the skill gap a lot higher sine he was able to fight and mostly likle deafeat people that has infinit "try agains"

Frisk still defeated them tho what are you talking about?

about his danmaku, Spamton and Jevil have no skill feats, asgore should massivaly be higher in skill them anything Kris has ever fought against

You do realize that this ain't relevant at all, right? Danmaku is what matters here.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Frisk still defeated them tho what are you talking about?

Frisk has a shit lot higher determination

You do realize that this ain't relevant at all, right? Danmaku is what matters here.

Not really, It's weird to talk about undertale combat thanks to how game mechanics are a important aspect of the cosmology

But asgore would not be limited to danmaku if the palyer is not the one controlling him, or at least if the battle takes place in a "cutscene" moment

and again, a bunch of Kris skill about dodging danmaku comes from the palyer

 

[StrymULTRA]

Frisk has a shit lot higher determination

And? Kris is the same skill-wise.

Not really, It's weird to talk about undertale combat thanks to how game mechanics are a important aspect of the cosmology

But asgore would not be limited to danmaku if the palyer is not the one controlling him, or at least if the battle takes place in a "cutscene" moment

Being above Undyne is not a relevant skill feat.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

And? Kris is the same skill-wise.

Same skill wise to what?

Being above Undyne is not a relevant skill feat.

Massivaly above to the point of not beingh able to hit him once and surviving a war angainst infnit retry people seens like a giant amount of skill to me

Tell me one enemy in deltarune that should have the same level of experience and skill as asgore

 

[StrymULTRA]

Same skill wise to what?

Danmaku dealing, given that Kris has no SAVE and LOAD, they have defeated those guys at 1st try.

Massivaly above to the point of not beingh able to hit him once

When she was a kid.

and surviving a war angainst infnit retry people seens like a giant amount of skill to me

There's 0 proof those guys are as skilled in damaku as the Deltarune peeps. And the reason why the monsters lost was because of their weakness to killing intent anyways.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Danmaku dealing, given that Kris has no SAVE and LOAD, they have defeated those guys at 1st try.

The player has save and load and controlled Kris to dodge the danmaku actually

When she was a kid.

He still superior to adult undyne by a lot, Frisk survived fighting against fighting every one important in the underground and every one still trough Frisk couldn't defeat asgore

There's 0 proof those guys are as skilled in damaku as the Deltarune peeps. And the reason why the monsters lost was because of their weakness to killing intent anyways.

There where multiple factors about the human vs monstes wars, humans beingh able to save and reset, monster beinghweakened by killing intent, etc

Are you saying that him surviving that war while beingh in the front lines isn't a skill feat? even trough the humans should be at least trained to fight against monsters sinse was a war and not some mindless battle of random people


Asgore AP also massivaly upscales from the value listed, his own AP section states that

Superior to characters like Undyne to the point where she considers herself killing Frisk to be mercy compared to what Asgore could do. Is one of the, if not the, strongest Monster in the Underground. Is a Boss Monster, the strongest type of all monsters. Has the highest STATs out of any existing Monster. Promotional material suggests that Asgore killing Frisk is a possible outcome, More powerful than Flowey who could not make it past Asgore without Frisk pre-emptively injuring him)

At the minimun asgore is on par with Kris AP wise(probable a bit higher, but probable not by much)

 

[StrymULTRA]

The player has save and load and controlled Kris to dodge the danmaku actually

Good, because is still within Kris' skills kek, check intelligence section.

He still superior to adult undyne by a lot, Frisk survived fighting against fighting every one important in the underground and every one still trough Frisk couldn't defeat asgore

Undyne was simply wrong here then. Besides her Danmaku is much more basic than Asgore's in her normal form.

humans beingh able to save and reset

They don't? The first one ever recorded was Flowey.

Are you saying that him surviving that war while beingh in the front lines isn't a skill feat? even trough the humans should be at least trained to fight against monsters sinse was a war and not some mindless battle of random people

What I mean is that losing against people is not really relevant if your Danmaku is still basic compared to what Kris went through.

At the minimun asgore is on par with Kris AP wise(probable a bit higher, but probable not by much)

Nothing here says he is x3 the Mettaton feat.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Good, because is still within Kris' skills kek, check intelligence section.

Fair them

Undyne was simply wrong here then. Besides her Danmaku is much more basic than Asgore's in her normal form.

Oh yes, the trained warrior that trained all her life and constantly spared with asgore don't know how much skilled asgore is from her

They don't? The first one ever recorded was Flowey.

• Supernatural Willpower (Seemingly all humans can produce and take much larger amounts of determination than monsters with DETERMINATION being the strength of will to keep living[6] in simpler terms. An impressive example of how high a Human's Determination can get is Frisk, although it is likely very few can reach this level normally as Frisk retained SAVE and LOAD even after the Barrier was destroyed)

It comes from determination, that is a almost exclusive human power in undertale, frisk is just the biggest exemple of that

What I mean is that losing against people is not really relevant if your Danmaku is still basic compared to what Kris went through.

First, you are underseeling Asgore's danmaku here, and the only notable one Kris fought alone is against spamton in the snowgrave, and even them spantom danmaku is a lot less dodging based and more aim based to not be hitted

Nothing here says he is x3 the Mettaton feat.

Massivaly upscalling should let at least a 4 times buff considering scaling from a one shoot is 7 times, but any way, the important stuff is that asgore should be much much strongher them Mettaton AP wise if you want values

Mettaton box form: ATK 30

Asgore: ATK 80

so at least 2,6x times higher, more if we considerer that Mettaton breaking the wall was not a "maximun effort" feat or that before version 10 of undertale mettaton box ATK was only 10

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Also, the promotional artwork implied there is a time line where frisk was defeated by asgore

 

[StrymULTRA]

• Supernatural Willpower (Seemingly all humans can produce and take much larger amounts of determination than monsters with DETERMINATION being the strength of will to keep living[6] in simpler terms. An impressive example of how high a Human's Determination can get is Frisk, although it is likely very few can reach this level normally as Frisk retained SAVE and LOAD even after the Barrier was destroyed)

I do not see any hint of them having SAVE and LOAD here. Plus Alphys never made a mention of it despite her researching DT.

First, you are underseeling Asgore's danmaku here, and the only notable one Kris fought alone is against spamton in the snowgrave, and even them spantom danmaku is a lot less dodging based and more aim based to not be hitted

You do realize the dude has defeated Jevil right? He has experience with levels of Danmaku much beyond Asgore, and Spamton NEO's is definitely harder than him too, as the Phone Waves and Flying Heads are pretty much dodging based.

Massivaly upscalling should let at least a 4 times buff considering scaling from a one shoot is 7 times

That's not how it works for in-verse scaling, we do the x7.5 thing only between different verses. Plus that "x4" is arbitrary.

Mettaton box form: ATK 30

Asgore: ATK 80

so at least 2,6x times higher, more if we considerer that Mettaton breaking the wall was not a "maximun effort" feat or that before version 10 of undertale mettaton box ATK was only 10

We do not accept Undertale stats as linear. Otherwise people with 0 ATK would have literally 0 Joules in AP output.

Also, the promotional artwork implied there is a time line where frisk was defeated by asgore

Not canon. I have 0 idea why is it used on the profile.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I do not see any hint of them having SAVE and LOAD here. Plus Alphys never made a mention of it despite her researching DT.

Here's the link btw

 

[JustANormalLemon]

You do realize the dude has defeated Jevil right? He has experience with levels of Danmaku much beyond Asgore, and Spamton NEO's is definitely harder than him too, as the Phone Waves and Flying Heads are pretty much dodging based.

He defeated jevil with the help of another fighter and a healer, not alone, and the mentioned spamton atacks aren't that hard to dodge

That's not how it works for in-verse scaling, we do the x7.5 thing only between different verses. Plus that "x4" is arbitrary.

You don't accept non linear scaling, them I had to use numbers, Asgore massivaly upscales from the mettaton feat, so he has a undetermined higher AP them that, we only know is a considerable gap

We do not accept Undertale stats as linear. Otherwise people with 0 ATK would have literally 0 Joules in AP output.

Sure, I only brough stats here beacuse you insisted on mathematical proof, It's not hard to determine Asgore is a lot strongher them box metatton beingh the stronghest normal monster in the underground, with a scaling chain of at least Mettaton box > metatton ex > asgore

Not canon. I have 0 idea why is it used on the profile.

them better do a CRT about It, Asgore profile seens a bit outdated anyway

 

[StrymULTRA]

He defeated jevil with the help of another fighter and a healer, not alone, and the mentioned spamton atacks aren't that hard to dodge

He still has experience with those. Besides, how wxactly is Asgore harder?

You don't accept non linear scaling, them I had to use numbers, Asgore massivaly upscales from the mettaton feat, so he has a undetermined higher AP them that, we only know is a considerable gap
Sure, I only brough stats here beacuse you insisted on mathematical proof, It's not hard to determine Asgore is a lot strongher them box metatton beingh the stronghest normal monster in the underground, with a scaling chain of at least Mettaton box > metatton ex > asgore

Is just unquantifiable. I never said is not stronger, but is not enough to overcome Kris' advantage, given that we lack concrete numbers above Mettaton, and stats are not linear.

Here's the link btw

Well... not that it changes much.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

He still has experience with those. Besides, how wxactly is Asgore harder?

I fought against both, asgore was much harder and jevil focuses raisel much more oftem them kris

Is just unquantifiable. I never said is not stronger, but is not enough to overcome Kris' advantage, given that we lack concrete numbers above Mettaton, and stats are not linear.

I personally disagree, but I don't think we can debate this part much

Well... not that it changes much.

Asgore surviving a army of people that can pratice a undetermine amount of times and should be at least old times soldier levels of skill fighters while in the front lines... ye, not a skill feat

 

[StrymULTRA]

I fought against both, asgore was much harder and jevil focuses raisel much more oftem them kris

This does not mean that Kris didn't deal with Danmaku much superior than Asgore's.

Asgore surviving a army of people that can pratice a undetermine amount of times and should be at least old times soldier levels of skill fighters while in the front lines... ye, not a skill feat

Especially when Kris kinda edges Asgore in almost anything, can self heal, tire Asgore out, reduce his defences and deflect his attacks, that isn't a factor.

 

[Bendynoah10]

Kris is definitely taking AP that's for sure
And Durability
But I would feel asgore has more skill. Because he killed 6 humans and many more during the war

But I am leaning towards Kris
Via far superior AP, durability and Lifting strength

 

[StrymULTRA]

But I would feel asgore has more skill. Because he killed 6 humans and many more during the war

No one denies he has more experience, but his attacks are nothing Kris has not seen.

 

[Bendynoah10]

No one denies he has more experience, but his attacks are nothing Kris has not seen.

True

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Oh, and asgore has atacks beside his danmaku in the form of his trident swipes, skill will matter here sinse he will be able to block dodge and counter atack Kris atacks

 

[Therefir]

Remember that when Kris swings their sword, the slash will suddenly appear in Asgore's chest, even from ten meters away from Asgore.

That will take him by surprise.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Remember that when Kris swings their sword, the slash will suddenly appear in Asgore's chest, even from ten meters away from Asgore.

That will take him by surprise.

Oh, I forgot that... Kris fra them(The nail in the coffing for me)

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Krisp FRA

 

[jojo123]

Kris FRA

 

[ShionAH]

A run where you never even SAVE is also possible, it's also acknowledged in the Asriel fight lol
A pretty big contradiction against Undertale having canonical deaths Frisk had

Theres 3 possibilitys. You die to sans, You die to asgore, You don't die. We look at each and see which ones make sense. First and second are more likely and make more sense for the story.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Theres 3 possibilitys. You die to sans, You die to asgore, You don't die. We look at each and see which ones make sense. First and second are more likely and make more sense for the story.

I don't see how the first two are more valid than the third one

 

[ShionAH]

I don't see how the first two are more valid than the third one

Frisk a small child with no experience dodging all that danmaku is not realistic to the lore one bit.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Frisk a small child with no experience dodging all that danmaku is not realistic to the lore one bit.

This small child could also beat both Undyne and Mettaton who have similar Danmaku to Asgore

 

[ShionAH]

This small child could also beat both Undyne and Mettaton who have similar Danmaku to Asgore

Frisk probably used load there too but we dont know how much. Its a very vague point of the lore tbh. You can also say flowey is lying and the cosmology is mountain level

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You can also say flowey is lying and the cosmology is mountain level

wat

 

[ShionAH]

wat

Vague stuff are shitty

 

[Bendynoah10]

Kris slams
I know my votes already on it but I'll explain why
Better lifting strength,better AP,better Durability and maybe more abilities and range

 

[Dragonite007]

Kris fra

 

[Therefir]

That's seven votes for Kris, grace period can start.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ralsei vs Asgore next.

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Ralsei vs Asgore next.

I'd like that

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Raisel vs flowey would be more thematic

 

[StrymULTRA]

Raisel vs flowey would be more thematic

Nah, what is exactly the connection outside of "both are goats"? Asgore has more potential plot-wise too.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Nah, what is exactly the connection outside of "both are goats"? Asgore has more potential plot-wise too.

both are asriel

 

[StrymULTRA]

both are asriel

What

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What

Well... okay, raisel looks like asriel, better? one looks like asriel but isn't the other is asriel but don't looks like