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Touhou Buff - Mima may not be trash after all

Saikou mentioned her.

Well, "At least 5-C". And isn't Reimu only 5-B to 4-B with the Yin Yang Orb anyways? It may be appropriate to make her stats "At least 5-C. 5-B to 4-B with the Yin Yang Orb".
 
@Prom: Oh okay, nvrmind. Just saw that.

Alright so At least 5-C for Mimu AND downgrade to said tier for Yuuka, eh...

Edit: It does, yes. It's even noted on Reimu's page taht she's of those tiers with the Y Y Orb.
 
Well the thing as I mentioned is that the 4-B feat comes from Reimu's power accumulated by the YY Orbs,not the orbs themselves. Even if we assumed she built power over all the game for that one feat, it would still be a 1235153593053765 times power increase, which would take forever to do when accumulating over time.
 
Hence the "At least". Likely higher may or may not be appropriate.
 
Before we get into doing these changes, are there any character that's scaled to PC-98(?) Reimu besides Yuuka or is it just her?
 
Yeah but, she outright CAN'T be 5-C, that's the thing. If we assume she spent the whole day doing nothing but powering up the Balls (Wtihout using her power to fight like what she did in her first game) and that she is on the high end of 5-C, she would still need to double her power 14295759178 times a second for her to reach 4-B.

At the very least, a "Likely higher" would be needed.

@Cross As far as I know, it's Yumemi, Reimu and Yuuka.
 
Okay before i leave for now (like get offline to rest), let me try this:

"At least 5-C, likely higher. 5-B to 4-B with Y Y Orb"

Will this suffice or be it of something else?
 
Alright. *Nods*

Anyone else? In case my suggestion doesn't work, y'all can try something else. I just made that based on what's recently said about Reimu.

As for ones like downgrading Yuuka and upgrading Mima to At least 5-C, that seems to be somewhat agreed enough....i think.
 
Tbh considering these facts:

-Reimu spent less than a day fightning, so the YY orbs had to absorbs her power in less than a day to do the 4-B feat

-Reimu spent the whole game spamming and using her powers, even using the YY Orbs' bombs multiple time without seeming to be weakened. So the Orbs had to absorbs a very small portion of her power, not her full 5-C power.

-Even then, it's likely that Reimu was weaker than 5-C at that time, as it is the first game, and she clearly trained and grew in power in later games.

I'd say that At most 5-B to 4-B would work best but eh I feel like I won't get much supporters for this,
 
My point is that 5-C is too low even as a "Likely higher", and that Reimu is likely much closer to her accumulated power than her 5-C feat. I don't exactly mind "At least 5-C, likely higher" but I feel like "At most 5-B to 4-B" works best.
 
Tfw you sleep and wake up that a thread is suddenly so active. In any case I support Saikou's statement to be honest. I still stand by the feat of Yumeko being a powerful creation and they should still scale well. And 5-B should work the best in all honesty considering circumstances. And it's probably just me but I think Mima and Yuuka should have likely higher just in case, cause of Yuuka's ability.

And since Marisa is trained by Mima as an apprentice, PC-98 should be comparable too imo.
 
>Sleeping

Oh totally. :3

I mean 5-C or 5-B/4-B technically scales to everything, since the protags fights everyone at least once.
 
losis.

Idk, do you agree with my madness I brought up Prom? And shouldn't we get DontTalk into this? Although it IS true that he said himself that he doesn't know much about PC-98 (And he is busy and stuff) so idk.
 
I think "At least 5-C, possibly/likely 5-B to 4-B" may be appropriate?

And yeah, it'd probably be good to get his input.
 
Sounds good to me. Since everyone trades blows with Rei Rei, sounds like it should also scale to most PC-98 peeps (Including Marisa).

I mean he is the only one of the 2hu circle that has yet to give his opinion so I guess we would need him.
 
Sounds like what i suggested the other day but minus the Y Y Orb thing at the end.

Seems okay, i suppose.

Waiting for DT's opinion is good. See what he thinks of this when he manages to get the time.
 
I'll let him know, otherwise I doubt he'll weigh in.
 
I don't think one can scale Mima from Yumemi because of the real magix > science magic statement.

The next line to that quote is "It doesn't use magic - it is a thing born of only positively charged photons and light waves." With "it" being the science magic.

In other words the science magic she refers to here is only the pretty light balls she shoots. Things like the Four-dimensional Positron bomb and moving the moon are probably not "science magic", but just outright science IMO.

For Yumeko we can scale her of the other beings of makai (except shinki) I think, but do we know how powerful any other being of makai is?
 
Well I mean she also gets beaten by Mima pretty hard too. Like everyone else did. If one assume moving the moon is applicable in battel it should scales naturally.

Also to note that it seems to be that her not using the full power of science seems dumb, since she REALLY wanted to see real magic. I mean she was desperated enough to use a suicide move, so I don't think she had any back up science stronger than the one she uses in battle.
 
Eh, she was just kidding about using the positron bomb anyway, so she wasn't that desperate.

Also shows that her light bullets clearly don't reach reach the level of the bomb, given that the bomb is not used, due to being too powerful (or as to say because using it would make them go down in history as criminals fer sure).

So I think she only uses science magic (lightbullets) in the battle, but no scientific devices. In the end if she killed her opponent she would also get no test-data, now would she?
 
Well I'm not refering to the bomb being scalable, just the Moon moving feat.

Yeah but it's better to have a corpse than going back without anything in hand because you held back somehow.
 
Quote Yumemi Mimas scenario: "Give it your all! If you die, I can't take you back with me, after all."

So that much to a corpse having value to her.

I also don't have to mention that directing moon level energy at earth in destructive fashion will still wipe out all live on the planet, right? It technically falls under the same category as the bomb.
 
Even then she didn't brought anyone back with her in the Good Endings, she doesn't need to bring someone completely healthy or alive to show off her work.

Well it's certainly treated differently. 4D bomb as a suicde attack that was worthy of a chair to the head, while Yumemi treated the moon thing as "why not c'mon lez do it". A bomb is clearly meant to be destructive in nature, wheras one could argue that AOE could be modified with Moon level.

Even then, Mima scales to Reimu. And there is no way in heck Reimu would be able to accumulate Solar System power with only MCB AP (Which was the basis of my point in the discussion above ours)
 
She actually does need someone alive as she wants to experiment with magic, and dead beings aren't exactly all that magical.

The moon thing is done in non-destructive fashion, which would likely be the reason for it being taken differently.

Why does she scale to reimu again? And what does reimu have for AP outside of ying yang orb explosion bad end?

You say it can not be that low, but do you have an idea how high it exactly is?
 
Well she certainly doesn't need to bring them back alive, or at all to study magic.

Because she fought her and fought with the same enemies for literal 5 games in a row. She at least scales to Reimu's base AP.

I did some half-assed calc earlier and even with 5-C AP Reimu would need to power up the Yin-Yang balls for a few millions times a second for 24 hours straight to reach Solar System. Even then, Reimu was most likely lower than 5-C in the first game, she didn't spend 24 hours and she was capable of fightning and using the Yin Yang orbs easily during all this time.
 
Doesn't she have a ship that basically doesn't even travel in space? Travels beyond it on another dimension or something else entirely? There's a possibility that she can travel in 4D though not quite sure.

Also at Yumemi's statement on "If you die," then she would have no reason to hold back and try to capture her probably. In fact... why would she tell her opponent to go all out when she wants to capture them? Shouldn't she do the opposite? If she does she'll have an easier time catching them, unless she has some sort of reason and is trying to tire them out but that doesn't make sense. So it might be a badass boast too. Then again Mima is a ghost so the concept of her dying is.... Well how would it work for Yumemi? Would she just think she's a being from Gensokyo/Makai that can die? She doesn't seem to realize the mistake of underestimating the enemy so it's doubtful that she held back or was lying about what she said earlier.

And geez somehow these notifications weren't showing up in my mailbox.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Well she certainly doesn't need to bring them back alive, or at all to study magic.
Because she fought her and fought with the same enemies for literal 5 games in a row. She at least scales to Reimu's base AP.

I did some half-assed calc earlier and even with 5-C AP Reimu would need to power up the Yin-Yang balls for a few millions times a second for 24 hours straight to reach Solar System. Even then, Reimu was most likely lower than 5-C in the first game, she didn't spend 24 hours and she was capable of fightning and using the Yin Yang orbs easily during all this time.
Click to expand...
Don't you mean higher? I'm confused
 
I mean that back when she did the 5-B to 4-B feat she was most likely inferior to whatever her current base power is. For example if we put her at 5-C, back then she would have been inferior to that.
 
Hm....

I am fine with the scaling of reimus base AP liek that as long as you are actually capable of pinning down a timeframe from completly uncharged to completly charged.

Given the orb constantly absorbs power from its user we would have to know that it isn't charged by reimu since she was 5 or something.
 
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