• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Moore Hax for Touhou

Status
Not open for further replies.
41
27
Reality Warping/Wish Granting for Reimu Yin-Yang Orb(Her yin yang orb can turn into a fairy and grant reimu wishes, Reimu asked the fairy for money, a cake, a meal, the truth of the Universe and destroying the Earth)

Resistance to Life manipulation for The Ultramarine Orb Elixir

Non-Physical Interaction for everyone in touhou 3 and 5(They can damage Mima and destroy Bakebakes)

Magic for everyone in PC98 except for Chiyuri and Yumemi

4th Wall Awareness for Orange, Elly, Rika, Alice, Parsee, Reimu and Meiling

Stealth Mastery and immunity to pain manipulation for all ghost but Youmu and Youki wont have the immunity becuz they are half phantom

Vibration manipulation for IaMP cast (everyone can create shockwave to push back their opponents using thier bombs, i mean like Sakuya have it in her profile).

Dimensional Travel, Aura, Concept manipulation for the Occult Ball(The Occult Ball can destroy the Great Hakurei Barrier, the Hakurei Barrier is the boundary of common sense, Yukari would also get Concept Creation from this)

Darkness manipulation(the Occult ball can turn Sumireko into her shadow)

Resistance to Sealing for the Occult Ball(Escaped from Byakuren sealing)

Large Size, Weather and Earth manipulation for Dragons

Dimensional Travel for gods

Electricity Manipulation for Vengeful Spirit

Weakness for Youkai

Existence Erasure for Aya ,Hatate and Seija(Sumireko have Existence Erasure in her profile via taking pictures so why not?)

Paralysis Inducement and Resistance to Probability Manipulation for Reimu(Defeated Shion who misfortune is potent enough to make it impossible for her enemies to ever win a fight)

Explosion manipulation and Enhanced Senses for Marisad(Senses a strange power from Junko, Senses magic flowing out of Narumi's back)

Occult ball for Marisa optional equipment

4th Wall Awareness and Teleportation for PC98 Yuuka

Fire and Ice manip for PC98 Alice(She was using fire and ice attacks, the ice attacks even have snowflakes in it. There's other purple, green and yellow attacks that could probably be other elements but i just gonna go with fire and ice manip)

Invisibility for Alice(She can make her dolls invisible by hiding them)

Explosion manipulation for Rika with Evil eye sigma

Teleportation for Elis and Mugetsu

Incorporeality for Kana becuz she's a poltergeist

4th Wall Awareness, Teleportation, Transformation, Empowerment and Resistance to Sealing for Mima(Broke free out of reimu sealing)

Heat Manipulation and Resistance to Extreme Cold for Cirno

Remove Meiling Plant manip(her spellcards are not made out of flowers)

Duplication and Stat amp for patchouli.

Explosion manipulation for patchouli(this, First Card "St. Elmo's Explosion", Sun Sign "Royal Flare")

Aura and Life manipulation for remilia(Creates an aura that drains her opponents life)

Invisibility for Flandre

Corruption for Remi and Flan( Akyuu stated a human who had their blood fully drained by a vampire would turn into a zombie)

Summoning( Vampires can summon many devils with a single word)

Weather manipulation for Yukari

4th Wall Awareness for Yukari and Momiji

Empowerment for Lily White

Enhanced senses for youmu(Can sense the scent of life and the stench of death)

Perception manipulation for youmu

Teleportation, Water walking, Resurrection, Weather and Light manipulation for Yuyuko

Portal creation for yuyuko(Can open a gate to the netherworld)

Heat, Magma, Explosion manipulation and Teleportation for Mokou(she does not need to resurrect in the exact location she died in)

Fire manipulation and Resistance to Fire manipulation for kaguya(have a fire resistant suit that is made out of fire and can shoot fire danmaku? It probably work like this.)

Light Manipulation for Kaguya

Perception Manipulation for Eirin

Resistance to Poison Manipulation for Reisen via eirin drugs.

Stealth Mastery for Tewi

Plant Manipulation for Shizuha

Enhanced senses for Aya and Hatate

Empowerment for Hina

Change Nitori Invisibility to Camouflage or maybe she just have both idk.

Soul and Sound manipulation for Nitori

Weakness for Nitori

Statistics Reduction, Underground Mobility, Teleportation, Animal and Light Manipulation for Suwako

Holy manipulation for Sanae(well she's a shrine maiden like Reimu so i guess she can also do exorcisms and blessings)

Power Bestowal for Kanako

Limited Power Null for sanae(she has a technique that can drain youkai powers, it probably only work on youkai)

Water manipulation for Yamame.

Empowerment for Parsee (Can gain more power from jealousy)

Water manipulation for Yuugi

Gravity, Exlposion, Fire and Magma manipulation for Okuu

Instinctive Reaction and Immunity to Empathic and Dream Manipulation for Koishi, It's immunity becuz she doesn't have a mind

H3A-L2C Koishi (Defeated Marisa easily, She should be comparable to Marisa, Kasen compliments koishi strenght)

Light Manipulation for Satori

Should we make a key that listed all of Satori copied abilities? Here's all of the hax she copied: Concept manipulation, Physic manipulation, Gravity manipulation, Black hole creation, Density Manipulation, Intangibility, Air manipulation, Explosion manipulation, Body Puppetry, Thread Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Poison manipulation, Water manipulation, Elemental Manipulation.

Acid Manipulation for Kogasa

Sealing, Vehicular Mastery, Electricity Manipulation for Byakuren

Light and Darkness Manipulation for Nue

Immunity to Soul manip and Resistance to Pain manipulation for Yoshika

Electricity Manipulation for Seiga and Yoshika(Watch in fullscreen and you will see the black balls have lightnings in them)

Is this Precognition & Retrocognition for Miko?

Weapon creation and Summoning for Miko(Can summon Futo and Tojiko)

Fire manipulation for Miko: 1, 2

Limited Mind manipulation for Miko (Her spell cards can cause people to bow down before her)

Power Mimicry and Dimensional Travel for Mamizou

Natural Weaponry for Eternity Larva and Wakasagihime

Gravity manipulation and Invulnerability for Seija from her items.

Platform Creation for Tenshi via her keystones

Air Manipulation for Iku

Kosuzu ability is probably Limited Automatic Translation

Fire manipulation for sunny milk.

Power Bestowal, Damage Transferal ,Life stealing and Enhanced senses for Komachi(Easily detects the three fairies of light)

Breath Attack, Enhanced senses, Magma and Heat manipulation for suika

She can also create White Holes.

H3A-L2C Sumireko(Can fight evenly with Mokou, Comparable to Mamizou)

Intangibility for Sumireko(Reimu cant touch sumireko dream version so that would make her intangibility neg normal NPI)

Air manipulation for Joon

Aura for Shion

Weather manipulation for kasen(Can summon her pet dragon to make rain)

Poison manipulation for Kasen (Raijuu lightning can renders people lethargic)

Enhanced Senses & Air manipulation for Kasen

Dream manipulation for Suika, Kasen and Yuugi(Oni sake can cause people to have nightmares if they got drunk from it)

Memory manipulation for Futo,Kasen and Seiga(Hermits can erase memories)

The fortune teller profile is outdated af so change it to 8C likely higher with inf speed.

Teleportation, Adhesive and Fire manipulation for Kokoro

Fire manipulation and Resistance to Madness manipulation for clownpiece(Unaffected by the true moon)

Hive Mind Type 2 and Explosion Manipulation for Hecatia

Pocket Reality manipulation for Hecatia, @Hecatia_Gaming Crt never got accepted so im just gonna include it here.

Soul and sound manip for Kutaka(She was controlling phantoms and making danmaku from her voice in her spellcards)

Idk what these abilities are? But im just gonna list them here:

maybe Illusion Creation or Perception Manipulation for Gengetsu?

Everyone in touhou 6 was unaffected by the scarlet mist so i guess they will have Resistance to poison manip?

Youmu can know the truth by slashing at her enemies

Yukari has eyes all over Gensokyo

Aya can listen to the wind and it can give information to her. Winds can spread rumors and it's not enhanced senses.

This attack would probably give Shion some kind of ability.
 
Oh don't forget Extreme Heat Resistance for Cirno She fought against Okuu inside Okuu's Nest

Also maybe Immortal type 1,4,8 and 9 for Junko due to permanently Kill Hou yi
 
immunity to pain manipulation
youkis profile got deleted so i disagree Maybe Youmu could have minor resistance to pain manip instead due to only being half-phantom?
i mean like Sakuya have it in her profile).
Honestly, it's my fault for not suggesting that other IaMP characters should have it. Since I was the one who mentioned that Sakuya should have shockwave creation on her profile in some CRT related to her.
Neutral.
or maybe she just have both idk.
That isn't invisibility, she's just hiding in the fog she created.
Considering every youkai currently has soul hax listed as a possible ability, if this goes through, Nitori's soul hax would get a solid rating instead of a possible one.
Both.
Power Bestowal, Damage Transferal ,Life stealing and Enhanced senses for Komachi(Easily detects the three fairies of light)
One of the scans there also says that she can make her danmaku explode, so she should have explosion manip as well.

Everything else in the OP is fine. I'll give my thoughts on the unknown abilities at a later time.
 
I'm about to proxy a comment from Fujiwara Yes Mokou, everything I say from this point onwards is what she had to say, I have my own things to say about this in a separate post:

"Good job finding all of this, I thought we were running out of things to add :v

Kinda disagree with life resistance because the elixir just gives type 5, so resistance to life manipulation is redundant (same reason we don’t have to list ‘immunity to soul manipulation’ on characters with inorganic physiology). That being said, it isn’t technically wrong.

As supporting evidence for PC-98 4th wall awareness, Reimu directly addresses the player in SoEW’s manual (Marisa does too, but she already has 4th wall awareness :v).

Stealth and pain resistance for phantoms is fine. Limited resistance sounds best for Youmu imo

Pretty sure weather and earth manip only applies to the Dragon God? Idk how many other dragons we have profiles for, but I don’t think they should get this. Obviously fine for the Dragon God though.

Disagree with gods having dimensional travel. The text is listing Kanako among the gods who can travel to the outside world, not that all gods are capable of doing so.

I personally don’t think youkai relying on human belief should be listed as a weakness, but it’s fine I guess.

EE for Aya and Hatate is fine, but I don’t remember Seija using it in ISC.

Paralysis stuff for Reimu is fine, neutral on probability resistance.

Explosion manip for Marisa is obviously fine, I think the enhanced senses stuff fits better under extrasensory perception though. Occult ball as equipment is fine.

Ice manip for Alice is fine, fire manip I think is a little questionable. Invisibility is fine.

Not seeing heat manip or any sort of resistance in Cirno’s scans.

Kinda have to disagree with removing Meiling’s plant manip, those scans don’t really disprove anything.

Mokou’s stuff is good. IIRC one of her spell cards in ULiL throws out exploding ofuda, so that should be mentioned for explosion manip too.

Kaguya’s stuff is fine. Should probably be noted that these aren’t inherent abilities and rely on equipment.

Disagree with power bestowal. Kanako just forced Yatagarasu into Okuu’s body, she doesn’t have an inherent ability to bestow anything.

Instinctive reaction for Koishi is obviously fine, but I’m kinda ehhhh on the resistances. They’re just kind of a default assumption when you don’t have a mind, so my issue is the same as the ultramarine elixir stuff.

I’m also neutral on a tier upgrade, Marisa seems to have trouble fighting her because she can’t read her moves, which only leaves Kasen’s statement as evidence.

Satori’s stuff is fine, I think having a tabber for her copied abilities would be nice.

Seija didn’t flip the castle, the Miracle Mallet did. I also need to see scans of invulnerability via items.

Neutral on a Sumireko upgrade, since Mamizou’s statement is saying she’s strong among outside world humans, which is true even if she’s building level, so that only leaves the Mokou stuff.

I’d have to go back and double check LE to see if the hallucinations really were from the sake itself or from Miyoi’s abilities, so neutral on oni dream manip until I can verify that.

Disagree with memory manip for hermits beyond Miko; all she says is that “somebody of her caliber” could manage it, which is kinda vague.

Wait, what the **** do you mean we have a Fortune Teller profile? Honestly I’d be in favor of just deleting it lmao

Gengetsu’s thing seems more like teleportation with a weird visual effect.

The scarlet mist is described as making people sick, so resistance to disease manip imo

Youmu and Yukari’s things probably don’t qualify for anything. Maybe we should list them without linking to an ability page?

Not sure what ability Aya would get if not enhanced senses, but considering she already has enhanced senses from a separate scan, I kinda doubt her refusal of it.

Don’t really know what’s going on in Shion’s spell card tbh, so I doubt it’d give anything.

This is everything I actually have a comment on, everything else I fully agree with."
 
Instinctive Reaction and Immunity to Empathic and Dream Manipulation for Koishi, It's immunity becuz she doesn't have a mind

H3A-L2C Koishi (Defeated Marisa easily, She should be comparable to Marisa, Kasen compliments koishi strenght)
I'm fine with Koishi's new abilities and resistances.

For her tier upgrade, I'm actually on board with that, BUT I'd just reword how you say it. She doesn't "defeat Marisa easily", in fact Marisa's actually beaten her in the past, Marisa just gives up early due to having difficulty reading Koishi's movements and the crowd already being against her. However a "comparable to/able to combat Marisa" statement is still decent supporting evidence. Kasen directly complimenting Koishi's strength is very good evidence, especially considering Kasen being a sleeper heavy hitter of the verse imo. I'd be fine with this upgrade, but this would also call for Satori getting a similar upgrade. While it's noted Koishi is stronger than her sister, it's clearly not MASSIVELY so. I'd propose Satori having an "At least 8C, possibly H3A, possibly L2C" key due to the scaling.
Everyone in touhou 6 was unaffected by the scarlet mist so i guess they will have Resistance to poison manip?
This one's a little redundant for some characters, as most already receive resistance to poison manip from entering the Forest of Magic, but it's still worth mentioning as supporting evidence for poison manip. I don't have anything to say for the rest of the possible abilities, maybe just mention Yukari having a mass surveillance system in her abilities though?

These Marisa upgrades are good imo. Though I'd agree with Mokou on it being Extrasensory Perception over Enhanced Senses. Explosion Manipulation is pretty clear cut, and as far as we know the Occult Ball is still just, sitting in Marisa's House, so it's a viable weapon for her to use.

H3A-L2C Sumireko(Can fight evenly with Mokou, Comparable to Mamizou)

Intangibility for Sumireko(Reimu cant touch sumireko dream version so that would make her intangibility neg normal NPI)
Intangibility is fine, H3A-L2C Sumi I'm fine with as well, though fighting evenly with Mokou is significantly better evidence than the Mamizou scan.

In terms of everything else I didn't mention or directly comment on, I agree with Fujiwara Yes Mokou's assertions & reservations.

Overall, this was a pretty well put together CRT, I'm genuinely impressed you managed to find so much stuff for the characters so many of us looked over, good work!


?????????????? it's in here lol
 
EE for Aya and Hatate is fine, but I don’t remember Seija using it in ISC.
E
Not seeing heat manip or any sort of resistance in Cirno’s scans.
She was lowering her body temperature in the scans
Seija didn’t flip the castle, the Miracle Mallet did. I also need to see scans of invulnerability via items.
Shinmyoumaru can have gravity manip then.
Kinda have to disagree with removing Meiling’s plant manip, those scans don’t really disprove anything.
"The danmaku is a reminiscent of a of a flower blooming", "This spell is actually created by repeating the same pattern over and over while magnifying it.", "I'm unsatisfied with how this danmaku doesn't recreate that part", "Lotus roots sure are tasty, though. How about I try lasers in the shape of lotus roots?"

It's more like she's creating the danmaku pattern to look like a blooming flower. It shoud have been like "She's shooting flowers at me" if it's plant manip.
 
E

She was lowering her body temperature in the scans

Shinmyoumaru can have gravity manip then.

"The danmaku is a reminiscent of a of a flower blooming", "This spell is actually created by repeating the same pattern over and over while magnifying it.", "I'm unsatisfied with how this danmaku doesn't recreate that part", "Lotus roots sure are tasty, though. How about I try lasers in the shape of lotus roots?"

It's more like she's creating the danmaku pattern to look like a blooming flower. It shoud have been like "She's shooting flowers at me" if it's plant manip.
Another proxied reply from Fujiwara Yes Mokou:

Alright, that's fine then.

She was lowering her body temperature in the scans
Huh, I thought she already had temperature manipulation on her profile, but apparently not. Should be fine to add in that case. Same goes for cold resistance considering she sits in the middle of these attacks completely unaffected.

Shinmyoumaru can have gravity manip then.
Wait, she didn't have it before with the Miracle Mallet? In that case adding it is obviously fine.

"The danmaku is a reminiscent of a of a flower blooming", "This spell is actually created by repeating the same pattern over and over while magnifying it.", "I'm unsatisfied with how this danmaku doesn't recreate that part", "Lotus roots sure are tasty, though. How about I try lasers in the shape of lotus roots?"

It's more like she's creating the danmaku pattern to look like a blooming flower. It shoud have been like "She's shooting flowers at me" if it's plant manip.
I guess so? None of those statements really elaborate on what the danmaku itself is actually made of which is why I disagreed, though I can kinda see the point. Neutral on removing it.
 
Ice and fire manip for Alice should be fine now, i just found this in OMAKE.TXT
unknown.png
 
Resistance to Life manipulation for The Ultramarine Orb Elixir
It says it weakens the influence of life and death. It's sounds a bit vague in my honest opinion because how that translates into a degree of resistance to it is unknown. I'm not opposed to adding it, just that it's actual potency is undefined.
Non-Physical Interaction for everyone in touhou 3 and 5(They can damage Mima and destroy Bakebakes)
Who is Mima and what are Bakebakes? If they are characters with some form of Incorporeality the sure but I'd like to see what type they have before approving this.
Magic for everyone in PC98 except for Chiyuri and Yumemi
It says magic unifies everything but can the characters actually use it?
Stealth Mastery and immunity to pain manipulation for all ghost but Youmu and Youki wont have the immunity becuz they are half phantom
Steath Mastery is fine but the immunity to pain is just a byproduct of them being their incorporeality. Obviously you can't harm something you can't hit so there is no reason to add it.
Dimensional Travel, Aura, Concept manipulation for the Occult Ball(The Occult Ball can destroy the Great Hakurei Barrier, the Hakurei Barrier is the boundary of common sense, Yukari would also get Concept Creation from this)
Dimensional Travel and Aura are ok. I'm unsure on Concept Manipulation for destroying the barrier.
Resistance to Sealing for the Occult Ball(Escaped from Byakuren sealing)
It doesn't seem like she sealed it yet... It just teleports when they looked away so it wouldn't get sealed.
Existence Erasure for Aya ,Hatate and Seija(Sumireko have Existence Erasure in her profile via taking pictures so why not?)
If they have the same type of camera that she does they sure, if not, i disagree with them having it.
That's not Enhanced Senses, it's Extrasensory Perception.
Change Nitori Invisibility to Camouflage or maybe she just have both idk.
Both I guess.
Yes.
Gravity manipulation and Invulnerability for Seija from her items.
Scan for Invulnerability? Gravity manipulation looks fine.
It's Extrasensory Perception, not Enhanced Senses.
Fire manipulation and Resistance to Madness manipulation for clownpiece(Unaffected by the true moon)
Fire manipulation is ok but what is True Moon and why does being unaffected by it give resistance to Madness manipulation?
Idk what these abilities are? But im just gonna list them here:

maybe Illusion Creation or Perception Manipulation for Gengetsu?
I can't tell.
Everyone in touhou 6 was unaffected by the scarlet mist so i guess they will have Resistance to poison manip?
Resistance to poison manip is fine i guess.
Youmu can know the truth by slashing at her enemies
So it forces them to tell the truth if they get slashed or she gains the information she needs when she cuts something? If it's the second, I guess Clairvoyance or Information Analysis maybe.
Clairvoyance via the eyes since Yukari uses them to see whats happening.
Unsure.
This attack would probably give Shion some kind of ability.
I'm unsure.

Everything else that I didn't comment on seems fine though my lack of knowledge on this verse makes evaluating most of this stuff an issue. Also, in the future, I suggest not making long threads like these as it takes time to go through all this and if something is debated on it could hold the thread up and stop the more easy additions from being added. Plus, don't always have the time to read everything posted when it's this large so it could turn people away.

Anyway, I was asked to evaluate this thread and I've done so.
 
This is from Mokou

It says it weakens the influence of life and death. It's sounds a bit vague in my honest opinion because how that translates into a degree of resistance to it is unknown. I'm not opposed to adding it, just that it's actual potency is undefined.
Actually, it just grants type 5 immortality by removing the impurities of life and death outright. Which is why I don't think the addition is necessary.

Who is Mima and what are Bakebakes? If they are characters with some form of Incorporeality the sure but I'd like to see what type they have before approving this.
Mima is a ghost, so very obviously incorporeality. Bakebakes are also just spirits.

It says magic unifies everything but can the characters actually use it?
Yeah looking back this is a little questionable; that being said, I thought we already had magic listed on most PC-98 profiles?

Steath Mastery is fine but the immunity to pain is just a byproduct of them being their incorporeality. Obviously you can't harm something you can't hit so there is no reason to add it.
I mean, it's not JUST referring to their inability to get hit; it just flatly says that they don't feel pain, period. Incorporeal beings are generally assumed to experience pain from anything that can affect them, but in this case it seems more like they just don't feel pain regardless of whether or not something can hit them.

It doesn't seem like she sealed it yet... It just teleports when they looked away so it wouldn't get sealed.
The fact that they're already walking away when it teleports implies that they already considered the job done at that point; after all, why turn your back on a dangerous object unless you're 100% confident that you've sealed it already? BTW, the balls teleporting the statue along with it and being implied to be able to teleport Byakuren in the same fashion would probably be BFR.

Scan for Invulnerability? Gravity manipulation looks fine.
Gravity manip isn't actually applicable since she wasn't the one responsible for flipping the castle, it was an artifact known as the Miracle Mallet. Invulnerability comes from, I assume, the Nimble Fabric item in Impossible Spell Card.

Fire manipulation is ok but what is True Moon and why does being unaffected by it give resistance to Madness manipulation?
The moon that most humans see in Touhou is actually just a reflection; the real moon is actually capable of inducing madness with just a glance.

Thanks for evaluating all of this btw. Sorry I can't properly post here, still topic banned. Still hope this helped clear some stuff up though.
 
Who is Mima and what are Bakebakes? If they are characters with some form of Incorporeality the sure but I'd like to see what type they have before approving this.
Bakebake is a type of ghost in pc98 and mima is a vengeful spirit.
It says magic unifies everything but can the characters actually use it?
Well yes, the dialogue came from touhou 3 and everyone in the game can use magic.
It doesn't seem like she sealed it yet... It just teleports when they looked away so it wouldn't get sealed.
Well it teleports with the statue so it just teleport away while getting sealed
Steath Mastery is fine but the immunity to pain is just a byproduct of them being their incorporeality. Obviously you can't harm something you can't hit so there is no reason to add it.
Everyone in touhou have NPI, and yuyuko stated that she can't feel any pain after fighting mokou.
Scan for Invulnerability? Gravity manipulation looks fine.
unknown.png

Fire manipulation is ok but what is True Moon and why does being unaffected by it give resistance to Madness manipulation?
unknown.png
 
This is from Mokou


Actually, it just grants type 5 immortality by removing the impurities of life and death outright. Which is why I don't think the addition is necessary.


Mima is a ghost, so very obviously incorporeality. Bakebakes are also just spirits.


Yeah looking back this is a little questionable; that being said, I thought we already had magic listed on most PC-98 profiles?


I mean, it's not JUST referring to their inability to get hit; it just flatly says that they don't feel pain, period. Incorporeal beings are generally assumed to experience pain from anything that can affect them, but in this case it seems more like they just don't feel pain regardless of whether or not something can hit them.


The fact that they're already walking away when it teleports implies that they already considered the job done at that point; after all, why turn your back on a dangerous object unless you're 100% confident that you've sealed it already? BTW, the balls teleporting the statue along with it and being implied to be able to teleport Byakuren in the same fashion would probably be BFR.


Gravity manip isn't actually applicable since she wasn't the one responsible for flipping the castle, it was an artifact known as the Miracle Mallet. Invulnerability comes from, I assume, the Nimble Fabric item in Impossible Spell Card.


The moon that most humans see in Touhou is actually just a reflection; the real moon is actually capable of inducing madness with just a glance.

Thanks for evaluating all of this btw. Sorry I can't properly post here, still topic banned. Still hope this helped clear some stuff up though.
Bakebake is a type of ghost in pc98 and mima is a vengeful spirit.

Well yes, the dialogue came from touhou 3 and everyone in the game can use magic.

Well it teleports with the statue so it just teleport away while getting sealed

Everyone in touhou have NPI, and yuyuko stated that she can't feel any pain after fighting mokou.

unknown.png


unknown.png
Thank you both for replying. My phone is about to die but from the above comments I guess the additions are ok. If I find anything I have issues with I'll bring it up tomorrow but so far I don’t.
 
Alright, now that I'm topic unbanned, I can finally give this CRT a full appraisal. I agree with pretty much everything so I'll only go over the stuff I disagree with.

This PMiSS article is only in reference to the Dragon God, so other dragons like Tenryu wouldn't get it.

This isn't saying that all gods can travel between Gensokyo and the outside world; rather, of the gods who can do so, Kanako is the only one who is solely based in Gensokyo.

Paralysis Inducement and Resistance to Probability Manipulation for Reimu(Defeated Shion who misfortune is potent enough to make it impossible for her enemies to ever win a fight)
Shion's possession does in fact let her make it impossible for her enemies to win (demonstrated by the fact that every other pair in AoCF got their asses handed to them). However, the reason why Reimu won was because Yukari swapped the border of master and slave before Shion could possess Reimu, thus making Reimu a master and Shion a master as well. This means Shion never actually possessed Reimu, and the justification of "defeated Shion" doesn't apply here.

Remove Meiling Plant manip(her spellcards are not made out of flowers)
Actually, Aya in StB does describe them as flowers with roots, so it should still apply.

Memory manipulation for Futo,Kasen and Seiga(Hermits can erase memories)
This shouldn't apply because Miko doesn't actually say that hermits can erase memories, it's someone of her caliber, which is an incredibly vague qualifier that I'm not sure we should apply to anyone else.

Dream manipulation for Suika, Kasen and Yuugi(Oni sake can cause people to have nightmares if they got drunk from it)
Not the case. Aya thinks that's what happened, sure, but earlier on we see Miyoi planning to use her abilities on Aya in secret. Keep in mind that Aya suffering a nightmare of an enemy way out of her league moments after drinking the sake is consistent with the previous applications of Miyoi's ability on Reimu and Marisa.

Also as a bit of an anti-feat, Kasen and Mamizou once had a drinking contest using Suika's gourd and Mamizou didn't experience any hallucinations.

Multilocation is a thing now, so type 2 hive mind should probably be replaced by that.

Everything else looks solid though after giving it a second read through, and since LordGriffin already accepted the revisions we can probably apply them once we get the above stuff decided on.
 
Shion's possession does in fact let her make it impossible for her enemies to win (demonstrated by the fact that every other pair in AoCF got their asses handed to them). However, the reason why Reimu won was because Yukari swapped the border of master and slave before Shion could possess Reimu, thus making Reimu a master and Shion a master as well. This means Shion never actually possessed Reimu, and the justification of "defeated Shion" doesn't apply here.
unknown.png

k then
This shouldn't apply because Miko doesn't actually say that hermits can erase memories, it's someone of her caliber, which is an incredibly vague qualifier that I'm not sure we should apply to anyone else.
Seiga taught her Taoism so she should have it, Kasen should also have it via being the strongest hermit in 2hu and maybe possibly memory manip for futo
Not the case. Aya thinks that's what happened, sure, but earlier on we see Miyoi planning to use her abilities on Aya in secret. Keep in mind that Aya suffering a nightmare of an enemy way out of her league moments after drinking the sake is consistent with the previous applications of Miyoi's ability on Reimu and Marisa.

Also as a bit of an anti-feat, Kasen and Mamizou once had a drinking contest using Suika's gourd and Mamizou didn't experience any hallucinations.
Miyoi ability is memory erasure + she was using the The Ibuki Gourd in your scan, nothing mention that her ability can create nightmares
I think Zun just decided to add hallucinations to the sake in lotus eater so that scan isn't really an anti feat or just resistance to dream manip

Like Suika just spit sake into her face and reimu immediately have a nightmare
 
Ah yeah, this is post possession swap. This works for me, then.

Seiga taught her Taoism so she should have it, Kasen should also have it via being the strongest hermit in 2hu and maybe possibly memory manip for futo
I'm not sure if Seiga teaching her is enough to extend all of Miko's hax to her, but I suppose it's fine. Kasen is also fine, and I'm neutral about Futo getting a possibly rating.

Miyoi ability is memory erasure + she was using the The Ibuki Gourd in your scan, nothing mention that her ability can create nightmares
I think Zun just decided to add hallucinations to the sake in lotus eater so that scan isn't really an anti feat or just resistance to dream manip

Like Suika just spit sake into her face and reimu immediately have a nightmare
My issue with this is that Miyoi is also present in the scan where Reimu hallucinates, which doesn't really counter the idea that Miyoi is the source of these nightmares, not the sake.

Furthermore, Reimu also experienced hallucinations in a different chapter while Miyoi was present, despite not drinking any oni sake. Miyoi is the common denominator here and not the sake (source is chapter 4 of LE for both of these scans).
 
I'm not really seeing the proof that she didn't create those illusions, she's just watching from a distance after making them.

Also doesn't that scan outright disprove any kind of dream manip when Miyoi and Suika are sitting right outside and watching it without issue? Seems like a form of illusion creation that people perceive as dream manip because they imagine they passed out drunk and had a nightmare.
 
I'm not really seeing the proof that she didn't create those illusions, she's just watching from a distance after making them.

Also doesn't that scan outright disprove any kind of dream manip when Miyoi and Suika are sitting right outside and watching it without issue? Seems like a form of illusion creation that people perceive as dream manip because they imagine they passed out drunk and had a nightmare.
"So you get em drunk on my sake and enjoy the show?" Isn't it obvious that it's oni sake affecting them? everyone was sleeping in the next page though so no it's not illusion creation.
 
In the very first chapter a side character also experiences hallucinations about being attacked by youkai after visiting Geidontei, which means this is definitely Miyoi's ability and not oni sake.
unknown.png

unknown.png


And Miyoi strongly implies that people getting drunk is what causes the nightmares, with no specific mention of oni sake.
unknown.png


"So you get em drunk on my sake and enjoy the show?" Isn't it obvious that it's oni sake affecting them? everyone was sleeping in the next page though so no it's not illusion creation.
Like I said above, it can be literally any sake. Suika's just mentioning her specific kind of sake in that scene since, well, that's what Miyoi used in that instance. As for the sleeping bit, you can see that Marisa is falling over, showing that she was still awake while the illusion was active and passed out afterwards, not out of the ordinary after a lot of heavy drinking.
 
Okay last bit of evidence I have and this should be pretty blatant. Suika and Miyoi plan to get revenge on Kanako by getting her drunk and using Miyoi's ability on her, leading to her experiencing a hallucination near identical to the other ones we've seen thus far. Not only that, but Suika specifically attributes this to Miyoi's own power AND they used sake bug refined sake, not oni sake, so this is about as clear as you can get for oni sake not being the cause of the hallucinations.

Oh, and you can literally see Miyoi do a little incantation as Kanako drinks the sake, so that also makes it pretty clear that she's the cause here.
 
In the very first chapter a side character also experiences hallucinations about being attacked by youkai after visiting Geidontei, which means this is definitely Miyoi's ability and not oni sake.
unknown.png

unknown.png


And Miyoi strongly implies that people getting drunk is what causes the nightmares, with no specific mention of oni sake.
unknown.png
That guy fell asleep and start having nightmares so it's dream manip, she didn't want to say that it was oni sake becuz she didn't want to scare away the customers, btw she had the Ibuki Gourd in chapter 1
Like I said above, it can be literally any sake. Suika's just mentioning her specific kind of sake in that scene since, well, that's what Miyoi used in that instance. As for the sleeping bit, you can see that Marisa is falling over, showing that she was still awake while the illusion was active and passed out afterwards, not out of the ordinary after a lot of heavy drinking.
Not really, they said it was a dream and the food had sake in them.
unknown.png
 
That guy fell asleep and start having nightmares so it's dream manip, she didn't want to say that it was oni sake becuz she didn't want to scare away the customers, btw she had the Ibuki Gourd in chapter 1
...That's a magazine cover, and is in no way indicative of what actually occurs in the chapter itself. Furthermore, the idea that she'd serve oni sake to customers if your assumption of it having the ability to induce nightmares is true would be very at odds with her character, given how she cares deeply about Geidontei and its clientele.

Not really, they said it was a dream and the food had sake in them.
unknown.png
Again, that's their interpretation of the events, and not accurate to what actually happened. If you were to have a drunken hallucination right before passing out, then it would naturally seem to be a nightmare. If what you're saying is true, this would mean Marisa fell asleep, had a nightmare, and then... somehow fell asleep a second time?

Anyways, I feel like we're getting a bit off topic since this is veering into the workings of Miyoi's ability and not the properties of oni sake.
 
...That's a magazine cover, and is in no way indicative of what actually occurs in the chapter itself. Furthermore, the idea that she'd serve oni sake to customers if your assumption of it having the ability to induce nightmares is true would be very at odds with her character, given how she cares deeply about Geidontei and its clientele.
from chapter 1, but that guy still have a nightmare so?
Again, that's their interpretation of the events, and not accurate to what actually happened. If you were to have a drunken hallucination right before passing out, then it would naturally seem to be a nightmare. If what you're saying is true, this would mean Marisa fell asleep, had a nightmare, and then... somehow fell asleep a second time?
Marisa literally sleep walking after getting drunk at geidontei, how is this not dream manip?
 
from chapter 1, but that guy still have a nightmare so?
That's exactly my point. That guy still had nightmares despite never even touching oni sake, which means Miyoi is at fault here.

Marisa literally sleep walking after getting drunk at geidontei, how is this not dream manip?
EDIT: Forget the original post, I overlooked the second scan. Regardless, we don't see Marisa drinking anything from Suika's gourd so my argument against oni dream manip still stands. We can argue the dream stuff once we move onto making a Miyoi profile.
 
Basically to sum up my arguments against oni dream manip, every situation where it could be applicable can be traced back to Miyoi, and on the instances where Miyoi was not involved, oni sake displays none of the traits that you're suggesting.
 
I'm tired and dont wanna argue anymore so i'm just gonna left this here and let other people decide if it's Dream manip or not.
There's nothing stated that Miyoi have some kind of hallucination or dream ability
Miyoi have the ibuki gourd in chapter 1 first page, and we can see both Marisa and Reimu drinking sake from it
Aya stated that oni sake can cause people to have hallucinations, so she must have tried it before.
Though it's not really illusion creation because Marisa got drunk from Geidontei, She was sleep walking, later she stated that she had a dream about a youkai attacking her And that is exactly what happen to that guy. Marisa and that guy have the same kind of nightmare like aya did
We can even see the exact same nightmare when suika spit sake on reimu, in the scan suika stated that the sake made the suima youkai.
Reimu suddenly have a nightmare isn't an anti feat because there was alcohol in the food so it's likely there is oni sake in them which have the same effect.
Suika even stated that Miyoi was using her sake to mess with everyone in the party.
 
There's nothing stated that Miyoi have some kind of hallucination or dream ability
...Suika literally states that they would use Miyoi's ability to make Kanako hallucinate, that's pretty blatant. Not to mention, Miyoi was evidently using some kind of power as Kanako drank the sake.

Miyoi have the ibuki gourd in chapter 1 first page, and we can see both Marisa and Reimu drinking sake from it
We do not see Reimu and Marisa drink from Suika's gourd on 2 separate occasions where they hallucinate (the entirety of chapter 4, and Marisa in chapter 2)

Aya stated that oni sake can cause people to have hallucinations, so she must have tried it before.
Aya's statement is basically the only thing that points towards dream manip I think.

Though it's not really illusion creation because Marisa got drunk from Geidontei, She was sleep walking, later she stated that she had a dream about a youkai attacking her And that is exactly what happen to that guy. Marisa and that guy have the same kind of nightmare like aya did
Neither of them drank from Suika's gourd in those example, so again, oni sake is not the source of the nightmares.

We can even see the exact same nightmare when suika spit sake on reimu, in the scan suika stated that the sake made the suima youkai.
You can see Miyoi in that scan, so it's still a matter of 'this is Miyoi's ability and not an intrinsic property of the sake'.

Reimu suddenly have a nightmare isn't an anti feat because there was alcohol in the food so it's likely there is oni sake in them which have the same effect.
...These are literally from 2 separate chapters. The first scan is from chapter 4, the second is from chapter 5, and they explicitly take place on separate days. The first scan is during the first party when neither Suika nor her gourd were present, the second is the aftermath of the second party.

Suika even stated that Miyoi was using her sake to mess with everyone in the party.
This isn't attributing the hallucinations to Suika's gourd specifically, it's just as likely to mean "you got everybody drunk with my sake and then used your power on them".

But yeah I think we're at the point where we just have to let other people decide :v
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top