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Top 5 Strongest Characters for Every Tier 36

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Sounds about right. The fact that he can only affect the target 'at a conceptual level' if they have an 'origin' (which resides in the soul {or is just another term to call a soul}, and not having one would make you immune to his conceptual attacks that target origin), is another limitation to his powers and spells.
what are u trying to imply here in this comment? If he were face against a character from another verse his conceptual attacks would work, i.e his conceptual attacks would work against goku, just bcuz he doesnt have an origin doesnt mean it wouldn't work. Origin is their concept and it's what makes them who they are. even gods who are embodiment of divine providence etc. has their each of their own Origin inside of themselves.
 
Yeah, maxnumb is correct. Anos's origin-destroying attacks would still work on vsthreads. And also because its kinda hard to find someone in fiction who doesnt have a concept.
 
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Does Scion have the void manip to effect NEP?
Even affecting Type 1 NEP requires either feats of effecting Non-existent things in-verse or being able to interact with Concepts, which Type 1 NEP still has. As far as I know, Worm lacks both Non-existent and Conceptual powers in its setting so I doubt Scion can affect them.
 
what are u trying to imply here in this comment? If he were face against a character from another verse his conceptual attacks would work, i.e his conceptual attacks would work against goku, just bcuz he doesnt have an origin doesnt mean it wouldn't work. Origin is their concept and it's what makes them who they are. even gods who are embodiment of divine providence etc. has their each of their own Origin inside of themselves.
Origin being something that 'resides in the soul' is the issue here, not the fact that characters like Goku don't have an origin (meaning that the target must have 'something like a soul'). An embodiment of divine providence in Anos' verse should have something similar to a soul when they manifest into a form. So, unless origin is something that 'doesn't exist inside the soul', I don't see how it would work against characters that don't have a soul in the first place.
 
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Origin being something that 'resides in the soul' is the issue in my opinion, not the fact that characters like Goku don't have an origin (meaning that the target must have 'something like a soul'). An embodiment of divine providence in Anos' verse should have something similar to a soul when they manifest into a form. Unless origin is something that 'doesn't exist inside a soul', I don't see how it would work against characters that don't have a soul.
Just bcuz it was stated the origin is deeper within the person's body does not mean everyone in Maou Gakuin verse could touch it. Anos is the only the few people who could touch them. Origin is not the same as a soul and mind it is completely entirely seperate from the idea of it being a soul in the verse. Also note Roots are not inside of a soul at all they are inside of an individual's body. I dont why u keep making the argument that Roots and soul are similar in any way which they are not as explained.

As being said goku has his own concept and anos can completely touch that via his feats with roots and capable of affecting them. Also from what I notice u keep making this the same as "Characters can't see Jojo stands bcuz they dont have a stand in their own respective verse", this is not how it works in versus debating. It comes down to what ur feats are and what u are capable of, and at this stage anos can affect concepts themselves via Roots destruction and other things.
 
Just bcuz it was stated the origin is deeper within the person's body does not mean everyone in Maou Gakuin verse could touch it. Anos is the only the few people who could touch them. Origin is not the same as a soul and mind it is completely entirely seperate from the idea of it being a soul in the verse. Also note Roots are not inside of a soul at all they are inside of an individual's body. I dont why u keep making the argument that Roots and soul are similar in any way which they are not as explained.

As being said goku has his own concept and anos can completely touch that via his feats with roots and capable of affecting them. Also from what I notice u keep making this the same as "Characters can't see Jojo stands bcuz they dont have a stand in their own respective verse", this is not how it works in versus debating. It comes down to what ur feats are and what u are capable of, and at this stage anos can affect concepts themselves via Roots destruction and other things.
If Goku has a soul, Anos can naturally affect his concept, even if it is different in his verse. (Why are you even bringing this up when it's a no-brainer?) Also, you never explained how roots are different from souls properly, while someone else who also understands this verse said that origin (aka root) exists within the soul (which means, although destroying the soul might not automatically destroy the origin as well (as it is a separate thing), the origin exists within the soul of a person/existence to begin with). Also, your Jojo analogy was incorrect, just like your Goku one. If a character can deal with souls (which Anos is capable of), they can naturally deal with stands without having them in their own verse. Why are you mentioning such obvious things?

At least come up with a valid reason or example before asserting your point.
 
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If Goku has a soul, Anos can naturally affect his concept, even if it is different in his verse. (Why are you even bringing this up when it's a no-brainer?) Also, you never explained how roots are different from souls properly, while someone else who also understands this verse said that origin (aka root) exists within the soul (which means, although destroying the soul might not automatically destroy the origin as well (as it is a separate thing), the origin exists within the soul of a person/existence to begin with). Also, your Jojo analogy was incorrect, just like your Goku one. If a character can deal with souls (which Anos is capable of), they can naturally deal with stands without having them in their own verse. Why are you mentioning such obvious things?

At least come up with a valid reason or example before asserting your point.
what does soul have to do with the roots as I already explained? Soul is completely different than an origin, why are u making this false claims that u need a soul in order to interact with one's concept? Let me reiterate once again why they are different, individual's soul no matter how much u erased it does not affect the origin and one's entity will still exist and will be reincarnated or be revived (depending who's reviving else's body). Also roots are the sole reason for creating individual's magic even without a body or a soul, origin will still be active due to the fact that is an individual's own concept. So no both are not linked with each other and an origin are individual's concept that made who that individual is. Never was it ever stated that Origin needs souls to exist or even linked with each other, idk where you get this headcanon from.

Jojo analogy was necessary to this as u making a bold claim that if someone has a soul they have an origin which i explained origin are concept of one's individual, so in versus debate that feat is noteable and has the ability to affect character who aren't resistant to conceptual attacks.
As pointed out u do not need souls to affect a concept and this is explicitly not limited to what anos can do. You keep on making the same arguments over and over which i explained why they are not the same nor linked with each other.
 
what does soul have to do with the roots as I already explained? Soul is completely different than an origin, why are u making this false claims that u need a soul in order to interact with one's concept? Let me reiterate once again why they are different, individual's soul no matter how much u erased it does not affect the origin and one's entity will still exist and will be reincarnated or be revived (depending who's reviving else's body). Also roots are the sole reason for creating individual's magic even without a body or a soul, origin will still be active due to the fact that is an individual's own concept. So no both are not linked with each other and an origin are individual's concept that made who that individual is. Never was it ever stated that Origin needs souls to exist or even linked with each other, idk where you get this headcanon from.

Jojo analogy was necessary to this as u making a bold claim that if someone has a soul they have an origin which i explained origin are concept of one's individual, so in versus debate that feat is noteable and has the ability to affect character who aren't resistant to conceptual attacks.
As pointed out u do not need souls to affect a concept and this is explicitly not limited to what anos can do. You keep on making the same arguments over and over which i explained why they are not the same nor linked with each other.
Again, you never explained anything properly before this reply (and you only did it because I made you do so). Also, notice how I also considered origin and soul as separate things in my previous reply (despite the lack of explanation). Moreover, I'm not making any false claim as it was mentioned by someone who has the knowledge of the verse that origin exists within the soul.

You really need to know how to make your point clear from the get-go, before wondering why someone is asking for clarification about something repeatedly. If you don't realize it's your own fault, you'll have to keep answering the questions until you make sense. (for example, this reply of yours finally made sense, unlike the previous ones) Anyway, we're done with this discussion now.
 
  • Characters only qualify for a tier if they are physically in that tier themself. Tiers through amps that increases both Ap and Dura also works, and the same applies to tiers via technology.
I've always thought this rule was kind of silly, even if it was agreed on with popular vote.

It's mostly the fact that this precludes mages who have a wide variety of magic that is above their physical tier via being mages. The vote was meant to prevent those who're a higher tier via one specific attack, but the wording on this rule kinda excludes character who consistently use magic of an X tier that's above their striking strength.

I'd say if they're 'X tier via magic/reality warping' in general then they should count for their tier but if they're 'X tier via one ability' then they shouldn't count. Case-by-case basis and all that.

Though that's a bit hard to work.
 
Doing it case by case would quickly become arbitrary, so that may have to stay as it is.
I'm 100% sure there's a better way than just banning certain glass cannon mages from being in their tier.

Maybe you can word it "if they're only X-tier via one technique" or so. As the current wording is off.
 
I'm 100% sure there's a better way than just banning certain glass cannon mages from being in their tier.

Maybe you can word it "if they're only X-tier via one technique" or so. As the current wording is off.
Thing is, a glass cannon magician should have "10B physically" or whatever they are when not using magic, if they don't, i think it isn't wrong to say the profile is missing information.
 
Thing is, a glass cannon magician should have "10B physically" or whatever they are when not using magic, if they don't, i think it isn't wrong to say the profile is missing information.
My problem here is that a glass cannon magician would only qualify for 10-B. Not any of the tiers they actually fight in. That's kind of dumb
 
My problem here is that a glass cannon magician would only qualify for 10-B. Not any of the tiers they actually fight in. That's kind of dumb
The current list does actually allow the likes of glass canon's like a lot of Index characters to take spots in the tiers their actual durability is below.
 
A lot? Idk what key of Aleister is being used, the first is a glass cannon the second isn't, both are 7A (idk why his 5B key is a glass cannon). Accelerator is as valid as Meth is in 5A, if Meth is removed, Accel should be for the same/similar reasons, i already said Fiamma isn't valid for 5B, but he wasn't removed and any revision i try to do to his profile is invalidated because "there is no rule saying this should be in his profile", basically. Any other 5B isn't a glass cannon.
 
Well at least for Accelerator, he can amp his striking strength to 5-B to match his vectors.

If a character can't amp their punches to match their magic then they're banned from the list
 
I think the amp needs to be to both AP and Dura, but anyway, his wings have 5B ap by default iirc.
 
Aliester's 5-B is a glass cannon no matter what because his main attack tier is higher than his actual durability.
And Accelaroto isn't like Meth, at least the profiles doesn't indicate it, because Accelerator's actual durability is way below his attack tier.
Only two of the 5-Bs from Index would actually classify for that position if that rule was being followed to a tee
 
Well, if we go by this logic, everyone here is a glass cannon since everyone here has higher D hax or something like that.

Both Accel and Meth have AP that can increase and decrease, but is still around one tier (5B and 5A) and a durability that does not change (6A and 3B), but their AP isn't much used because of their hax (Vector and Mind) and their Dura also isn't much used because of their defenses (Vector Shield and Abstract Existence)
 
No, not everyone here is a glass canon. Most of the current characters on the list are physically in their tiers while also just having good hax amongst those in their tier. Hax isn't durability related, hence why its called hax.

And with Accelerator, his actual physical durability is never anywhere close to his AP. In his first key, his durability is street level with planet level AP. The second key is the same. Third key his durability is now mountain level but that's nowhere close to planet so still a glass canon. Fourth he bumps up to multi-continental but still isn't anywhere close to his planet level AP. His only tier in which his AP and physical durability are actually comparable is the one that has him in Solar System level.

Meth on the other hand just flat out has Universal durability that just decreases as he has less and less nights.

Those two are very clearly seperate cases with Accelerator being the glass cannon of the pair.
 
Their AP does not follow their durability, and Meth is 5A with his Jaws (Someone said they are part of his body and not just attacks), just like Accel is 5B with his wings.

Also, 2? I think there are at least 3, i will also try to upgrade Aleister's Dura to 5B, so it will turn into at least 4.
 
As was stated previously in the old forum - make matches otherwise doesn't matter what nomination is said or what statement is brought up.
 
Btw since it seems like Reinhard is getting 5-A back I dont know how you wanna handle that.

Like we could go "Characters from Shinza Bansho", "Methuselah and Reinhard" or have it be "1st place: Reinhard 2nd place: Meth" since there's a legit difference in their strength.
 
Their AP does not follow their durability, and Meth is 5A with his Jaws (Someone said they are part of his body and not just attacks), just like Accel is 5B with his wings.

Also, 2? I think there are at least 3, i will also try to upgrade Aleister's Dura to 5B, so it will turn into at least 4.
It's not about if AP and Durability match, it's about if AP is far and above physical Durability. Most of the current To Aru characters up there in 5-B have their durability far and below their AP, hence their glass canon status. Accelartor is a glass canon until his 4-B key.
 
Well, it is Gilgamesh fault since he started all of that for being 1st spot in 1A with a weapon while he was 9B.

Now that we are in the new forum, i think it is the best moment to create a thread to discuss the rules, instead of starting talking about it here and dropping after a dozen posts like last time.
 
As was stated previously in the old forum - make matches otherwise doesn't matter what nomination is said or what statement is brought up.
That's new. Also, are we really supposed to make battle where one side cannot even effect the other? Isn't that also against other rules?
 
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