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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued (again)

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Planck69 said:
"Near Infinite" is just another world for countless, which in itself is just a nebulous value of 2-B. So, let's not get too carried away with that.
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Kinda true. But also given that the "Near Infinite" statement comes from a nigh-omniscient 1-B being, and countless 2-B is already a thing, I'm more inclined to take "Near Infinite" as far more exponential then just base countless.

Edit:

There's another countless in there too I forgot about; So Countless x Countless x Near Infinite x 5
 
YungManzi said:
Kinda true. But also given that the "Near Infinite" statement comes from a nigh-omniscient 1-B being, and countless 2-B is already a thing, I'm more inclined to take "Near Infinite" as far more exponential then just base countless.
Click to expand...
"Countless" isn't some set high value of 2-B that can be treated like a variable. So long as it's finite, it holds the same meaning functionally. "Myriad", "Near infinite" etc. aren't any different.
 
YungManzi said:
Kinda true. But also given that the "Near Infinite" statement comes from a nigh-omniscient 1-B being, and countless 2-B is already a thing, I'm more inclined to take "Near Infinite" as far more exponential then just base countless.

Edit:

There's another countless in there too I forgot about; So Countless x Countless x Near Infinite x 5
Click to expand...
All I'm seeing from the justification on the profile is countless parallel worlds (plus an unknown amount of additional spaces and timelines created through time travel) x five Celestial Foundations that were held at once.

Nothing about two additional countless, and the next to Infinite is easily just explaining as being a description of being countless.
 
CFE should also scale to spending an "eternity" eating countless celestial foundations, and being able to release all of its power it had accumulated from eating them (Which it itself already scales to by virtue of eating them, unless you think it poops out CF's or something)
I just looked up why the justification was removed, and it seems they missed the point of the possibly 2-B rating it had even when Celestial Foundations were only considered 2 timelines each and we overlooked the statement that it could consume 4 to 5 at once, they thought the profile was saying that the CFE had consumed countless all at once which was never the argument.

Basically, I wasn't part of that removal of justification and completely disagree kek.
 
YungManzi said:
Mukuro Rokudo Slaps both in 6-C.

Edit:
He has a bunch of layers of illusions/mind hax with resistance, reality warping that can border on toon force, and essentailly type 8 immortality and low godly regeneration (Although, this was removed because technically that's not what it is but for the sake of a vs battle it functions that way at least that's what was agreed when it was removed kek)
Click to expand...
My 3 favorite Battle Shounen fighting each other, nooooo.

I am sure Mukuro can beat Law but loses to Asura, while Law vs Asura is a lot harder to get but i think it's either an incon or Asura wins.
 
XDragnoir said:
My 3 favorite Battle Shounen fighting each other, nooooo.

I am sure Mukuro can beat Law but loses to Asura, while Law vs Asura is a lot harder to get but i think it's either an incon or Asura wins.
Click to expand...
Yeah, pre-revisions it's probably incon with Law having issues with Kishin's illusions possibly giving it to Kishin, post-revisions Kishin could probably **** with Law's spatial shit so Kishin 100% wins
 
So, since Aiko Hatayama already seem to stomp Ainz I will propose her with her After Stories key for 9-A. In summary she is someone that look like a cute child but have several haxs with her spirit magic (Arifureta ancient magic, so the haxs are based in law and concept type 2 manip), have the natural charisma to create a world-wide religion without wanting (she can futher boost her natural charisma with spirit magic if she actually desire), have an artifact in a pocket dimension (which is connected to Hajime own pocket world) that automatically revive her or heal any detected abnormality with time manip, have 7-A monsters accompanied with a sea of trees that use spirit magic to affect people perception, have infinite energy with the protection wand (that control the planet energies, including supernatural energies) and necklace (seems like I forgot to mention that in her stamina section despite mention it in the rest of profiles so my bad there), and in times of emergency she teleport to the Nagumo house were Hajime and the rest of the wives live (the house itself is also a super defensive artifact with several things inside).
 
Last edited:
Remove Will of the Honkai from the list, the character is deleted, and from what i remember the informations on profile is not accurate
 
Pardon me, if I am wrong. But isn't CC Goku Stronger than Fu? He has the Universe Tree, Keysword and the Zeno button. and I believe he can summon arale?
 
Arthex said:
Pardon me, if I am wrong. But isn't CC Goku Stronger than Fu? He has the Universe Tree, Keysword and the Zeno button. and I believe he can summon arale?
Click to expand...
Uh, while CC Goku strongest key is SSB:UT and he overwhelmed Youth:Fu, he didn't has Dark Factor like Fu. Keysword he has the Dormant one which is Ultra God Mission onward and he don't have SSB:UT anymore in that Mission, so Fu is more flexible when it come to abilities
 
XDragnoir said:
I am sure Mukuro can beat Law but loses to Asura, while Law vs Asura is a lot harder to get but i think it's either an incon or Asura wins.
Click to expand...
Well Kishin's page is updated now, can check it to see if u think he beats Law much easier now.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
So, since Aiko Hatayama already seem to stomp Ainz I will propose her with her After Stories key for 9-A. In summary she is someone that look like a cute child but have several haxs with her spirit magic (Arifureta ancient magic, so the haxs are based in law and concept type 2 manip), have the natural charisma to create a world-wide religion without wanting (she can futher boost her natural charisma with spirit magic if she actually desire), have an artifact in a pocket dimension (which is connected to Hajime own pocket world) that automatically revive her or heal any detected abnormality with time manip, have 7-A monsters accompanied with a sea of trees that use spirit magic to affect people perception, have infinite energy with the protection wand (that control the planet energies, including supernatural energies) and necklace (seems like I forgot to mention that in her stamina section despite mention it in the rest of profiles so my bad there), and in times of emergency she teleport to the Nagumo house were Hajime and the rest of the wives live (the house itself is also a super defensive artifact with several things inside).
Click to expand...
Btw, to futher support that Aiko should take Ainz spot will comment about the rest of below spots:

10. Spongebob Squarepants: Get defeated with the effects of spirit magic, yes certainly Bob profile mention that he possible resist soul manip since his soul is apparently owned by others, I'm quite unsure if that would actually let him resist the direct soul manip of spirit magic but even under the assumption that it do spirit magic affect more than just the soul (spirit magic is magic to manipulate the concept of incorporeal elements of sentient beings, hence why it can also affect the mind, memories, dreams, powers aka powernull, and other things) so he would still be affected since he lack resistance to the other things or his resistances aren't strong enough. Bob also lack a way to counter the automatic revives, and with his character he seems very likely to also be outright affected by Aiko charisma.

9. Mardicus: Have just tens of meters with abilities so he can't even affect her with the initial 4km distance, but on top of that he don't resist any of the spirit magic effects.

8. Haruna (Arpeggio of Blue Steel): She lacks a soul so she should resist the soul manip (though spirit magic have show the ability to grant objects souls and control them, but is very unlikely that Aiko would do that) and while it mention that she resist mind manip do to be a machine in Arifureta machines have be affected before with mental powers so she shouls still be affected by the conceptual manip of elements of sentient beings of spirit magic.She don't have a way to put down Aiko with the infinite revives, Aiko can use the planet energy to her favor, and if things still look bad just go to the Nagumo house.

7. Snatcher: Don't resist spirit magic or have a way to put down Aiko.

6. Isaac: Don't have the range to affect her at the beginning of the combat while his resistances aren't strong enough to resist spirit magic, stat wise she would also stomp him with her plants, he can't put her down, and considering how he is a poor kid her natural charisma should be hyper effective against him.

I don't know about the Hellper verse so can't argue for a higher spot against them, and while the Hero don't seem to resist spirit magic he apparently have nonexistent physiology (though don't look updated to the new standards) so I'm not sure if Aiko can interact with him to begin with.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
8. Haruna (Arpeggio of Blue Steel): She lacks a soul so she should resist the soul manip (though spirit magic have show the ability to grant objects souls and control them, but is very unlikely that Aiko would do that) and while it mention that she resist mind manip do to be a machine in Arifureta machines have be affected before with mental powers so she shouls still be affected by the conceptual manip of elements of sentient beings of spirit magic.She don't have a way to put down Aiko with the infinite revives, Aiko can use the planet energy to her favor, and if things still look bad just go to the Nagumo house.
Click to expand...
Agreeing with this. Haruna isnt even going to touching her.

If this goes on Haruna going to end up gatekeeping the last spot huh
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
So, since Aiko Hatayama already seem to stomp Ainz I will propose her with her After Stories key for 9-A. In summary she is someone that look like a cute child but have several haxs with her spirit magic (Arifureta ancient magic, so the haxs are based in law and concept type 2 manip), have the natural charisma to create a world-wide religion without wanting (she can futher boost her natural charisma with spirit magic if she actually desire), have an artifact in a pocket dimension (which is connected to Hajime own pocket world) that automatically revive her or heal any detected abnormality with time manip, have 7-A monsters accompanied with a sea of trees that use spirit magic to affect people perception, have infinite energy with the protection wand (that control the planet energies, including supernatural energies) and necklace (seems like I forgot to mention that in her stamina section despite mention it in the rest of profiles so my bad there), and in times of emergency she teleport to the Nagumo house were Hajime and the rest of the wives live (the house itself is also a super defensive artifact with several things inside).
Click to expand...
With a new entry on the 9-A list, it's time for me to look through my list of characters again to see who could steal a spot...
Hmmm... do you think Mare could take her via time stop and existence erasure?
 
You know, since Aiko also have a 9-B rating I will propose her for a spot in that tier:

9. UIU File 2014-014: Normally I would assume that he have funny SCP shit but since this is the non-smurf list and characters like Henry and Morgan Yu are above him I will consider that he indeed not have any of that, so based on that he lack the range to affect her on top of be unable to attack directly and don't resist spirit magic.

8. Henry Stickmin: His natural charm should affect him regardless of how many times he retry, and since some pages ago was established that time powers don't let null conceptual manip without feats so her spirit magic should be able to take him down.

7. Morgan Yu: Lack the range to affect her and don't resist spirit magic, and he also can't take her down.

6. The Radiance: Don't resist spirit magic and can't take down Aiko, stat wise Aiko stomp with magic, and if things look bad she can go to the Nagumo house.

Won't argue for anything higher because I know that Owari concept manip is better than Aiko.
 
DontTalkDT said:
With a new entry on the 9-A list, it's time for me to look through my list of characters again to see who could steal a spot...
Hmmm... do you think Mare could take her via time stop and existence erasure?
Click to expand...
Give me a moment to look at the profile, though the ee shouldn't be able to stop the infinite revives, the only thing in verse that can stop something like that is concept magic (the type 1 concept manip) since that have the statements and feats showing it.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Give me a moment to look at the profile, though the ee shouldn't be able to stop the infinite revives, the only thing in verse that can stop something like that is concept magic (the type 1 concept manip) since that have the statements and feats showing it.
Click to expand...
I mean, Mare has Type 2 concept stuff.
Although the main problem is that, unless her power of existence is restored somehow, she just stops existing again the moment she revives. (and the world is adjusted such that it is as if she never existed)
 
DontTalkDT said:
With a new entry on the 9-A list, it's time for me to look through my list of characters again to see who could steal a spot...
Hmmm... do you think Mare could take her via time stop and existence erasure?
Click to expand...
And that woman doesn't have immortality so... Ainz just insta-gibs her with Death
 
DontTalkDT said:
I mean, Mare has Type 2 concept stuff.
Although the main problem is that, unless her power of existence is restored somehow, she just stops existing again the moment she revives. (and the world is adjusted such that it is as if she never existed)
Click to expand...
What I wanted to say is that the only thing in verse that restoration magic (type 2 concept manip) can't bring back is those things erased by concept magic (the type 1 concept manip of the verse).

The artifact just automatically detect any abnormally in the user and use restoration/time magic to restore it to its previous state of existence.

Anyways, reading a bit the profile it seems that those that possess energy from the Crimson Realm can move in the time stop, so I'm inclined to believe that Aiko could move because her adaptation to others unique energies, the protection wand also boost that ability to adapt and control unique energies.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Soul Shell also resist type 3 though.
Click to expand...
Well ya know precisely what you gotta chant!

"Body Puppetry (People with strong wills can resist magic which can compel others with just words, and even the noncombatants of the Liberators can also resist[20]), Telekinesis (Telekinesis can't directly affect living beings with mana[21]), Mind Manipulation and Perception Manipulation (Resisted Noint's dark magic which brainwashes her target's. Dark magic influences the target's thoughts and perception[22])"

CRT! CRT!

"Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Power Nullification, Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2, Users of soul shell have resisted Yato no Kami's authority which is a curse that destroys anyone who sees its form along with their family[25]. It is an artifact that specifically protects the soul, which means curses are also treated as attacks on the soul[25]. Additionally, those with soul shell can resist the effects of Divine Edict from Ehit[26]. Soul Shell have the effect of grant mental defences[27]), Life Manipulation and Death Manipulation (Users of soul shell have also resisted the effects of curses like the one from ghosts, who can steal the vitality of living things just by existing[28] or Yato no Kami, who can kill the living just by existing[25]), Sense Manipulation (Felt the presence of monsters inside Haltina sea of trees[29] despite the fog's effects on the senses) and Regeneration Negation (The medicine of Hajime can counter the healing negation effects of the breath of Fried's dragon)"

CRT! CRT! CRT!
 
It is included in the mind and soul part though, we just don't list every single effect that Soul Shell resist because then the list would be unnecessarily long (since it grant protection to spirit magic effects. Think of it like how Vandalieu just list mind manip resistance instead of mention every single effect included with that), but if you want I can very easily post the scan of Hajime making things go insane with his presence and Aiko being with him there and still be unaffected.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
It is included in the mind and soul part though, we just don't list every single effect that Soul Shell resist because then the list would be unnecessarily long (since it grant protection to spirit magic effects), but if you want I can very easily post the scan of Hajime making things go insane with his presence and Aiko being with him there and still be unaffected.
Click to expand...
That's... honestly dumb. List em all on the profile, there is no "Well it'd be unreasonably long" when pages like Aethyr Manipulation and BB and Void Knight exist.

it being hideously long isn't an excuse. At that point it's just being lazier then I am
 
DaReaperMan said:
That's... honestly dumb. List em all on the profile, there is no "Well it'd be unreasonably long" when pages like Aethyr Manipulation and BB and Void Knight exist.

it being hideously long isn't an excuse. At that point it's just being lazier then I am
Click to expand...
When the description of something is clear enough it isn't actually necessary, but since you insist here is a scan of Hajime driving things insane when angry (and mind you this was several minutes before his bloodlust actually got to the point of create a concept).
 
DaReaperMan said:
And that woman doesn't have immortality so... Ainz just insta-gibs her with Death
Click to expand...
Thing is, Ainz' spells don't activate while time is stopped and Shakugan no Shana characters always keep time stopped for the entire battle.
Expectro2000xxx said:
What I wanted to say is that the only thing in verse that restoration magic (type 2 concept manip) can't bring back is those things erased by concept magic (the type 1 concept manip of the verse).

The artifact just automatically detect any abnormally in the user and use restoration/time magic to restore it to its previous state of existence.

Anyways, reading a bit the profile it seems that those that possess energy from the Crimson Realm can move in the time stop, so I'm inclined to believe that Aiko could move because her adaptation to others unique energies, the protection wand also boost that ability to adapt and control unique energies.
Click to expand...
I think that adaptation, if it works at all, would need to happen before the time stop stops her. And that will be the first thing in the fight that happens.

I don't think the resurrection would work. I mean type 2 concept vs type 2 concept aside, what the lack of energy of existence does includes erasing all information on the person in the world. The way the resurrection magic is meant to work, in my understanding, is that the smartphone collects data and that is used for the resurrection. When her power of existence is erased all that data won't exist anymore.
DaReaperMan said:
That's... honestly dumb. List em all on the profile, there is no "Well it'd be unreasonably long" when pages like Aethyr Manipulation and BB and Void Knight exist.

it being hideously long isn't an excuse. At that point it's just being lazier then I am
Click to expand...
It's arguably a much nicer read than listing a bunch of abilities to say the same thing.

And it's indeed allowed. Otherwise, every time we create a subtype of a general purpose power, we would need to update everyone with general resistance to also list resistance of the subtype. For something like mind manip with half a dozen subtypes and likely thousands of people with resistance that would have been a lot of work. Allowing a general listing of resistances to include subtypes makes profiles more persistent in that regard.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Thing is, Ainz' spells don't activate while time is stopped and Shakugan no Shana characters always keep time stopped for the entire battle.
Click to expand...
It's only during personal time stops Ainz can't cast magic, he already resists time stop, so yeah he dunks her.
 
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