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I finished reading NT17, pretty good though it was a bit too long. We should probably try to finish the Level 5 upgrades before doing new stuff.
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Toaru Majutsu no Index General Discussion Thread 2
- Thread starter LordAizenSama
- Start date
- Status
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So after this volume I have a question. is there multiple Universes in a single timeline? I'm a bit confused as to what's going on with that..
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You mean the "world" where World Rejecter exiles stuff to? Considering that they could leave Earth just fine and going by previous and new explanations, it's probably some form of copy of the "real world" that updates every 12 hours. So the magic gods can have their own Valhalla and play fight with each other all they want, anything they change goes back to normal when it updates.
As for where this "world" is, the World (as in all Phases put together) doesn't occupy all the "space" it could, and World Rejecter banishes you to that excess space. But it's still a place in the same timeline, yeah.
NT13:
"Yes, the world is ultimately a straight line like the rubber string nailed onto pachinko machines. There is no infinite expanse of parallel worlds. But at the same time, the world is a rubber string. It can stretch or contract like time or space. The world we know has a surprising amount of waste. It's like using only ten frames when using sixty fps film. No one will notice if you stick some subliminal footage in using two or three of the leftover frames. This is what you wished for, isn't it? You Magic Gods wished for this even though you knew it could never come true. You checked the farthest reaches of the universe and all of the piled-up phases and you realized there was nothing new left. But if it was possible, you wished to leave behind this troublesome world and spread your wings in a new world no one else knows of."
NT14:
"My World Rejecter has the power to exile people to the excess region in the same timeline. It affects anyone whose conflicting desires cause them to cling to the current world while also wishing for a new world. In other words, your efforts here are useless. It doesn't matter how much power you have or how many strategies you've put together."
NT15:
This one was fatal. It had been a clean hit. The woman had spoken the words with her hand's shadow entirely placed on the girl's body. When World Rejecter activated, it held enough power to defeat even Magic Gods by the dozen. Salome's body would be swiftly "exiled" to the spare territory between related timelines. Basically, a living human being would be sent to another world, never to be seen again.
NT17:
Kamisato had said some confusing things when talking about World Rejecter. Instead of sending someone to an entirely different world, it sent them to another "world" in the same timeline or to the excess space in the same film.
As for where this "world" is, the World (as in all Phases put together) doesn't occupy all the "space" it could, and World Rejecter banishes you to that excess space. But it's still a place in the same timeline, yeah.
NT13:
"Yes, the world is ultimately a straight line like the rubber string nailed onto pachinko machines. There is no infinite expanse of parallel worlds. But at the same time, the world is a rubber string. It can stretch or contract like time or space. The world we know has a surprising amount of waste. It's like using only ten frames when using sixty fps film. No one will notice if you stick some subliminal footage in using two or three of the leftover frames. This is what you wished for, isn't it? You Magic Gods wished for this even though you knew it could never come true. You checked the farthest reaches of the universe and all of the piled-up phases and you realized there was nothing new left. But if it was possible, you wished to leave behind this troublesome world and spread your wings in a new world no one else knows of."
NT14:
"My World Rejecter has the power to exile people to the excess region in the same timeline. It affects anyone whose conflicting desires cause them to cling to the current world while also wishing for a new world. In other words, your efforts here are useless. It doesn't matter how much power you have or how many strategies you've put together."
NT15:
This one was fatal. It had been a clean hit. The woman had spoken the words with her hand's shadow entirely placed on the girl's body. When World Rejecter activated, it held enough power to defeat even Magic Gods by the dozen. Salome's body would be swiftly "exiled" to the spare territory between related timelines. Basically, a living human being would be sent to another world, never to be seen again.
NT17:
Kamisato had said some confusing things when talking about World Rejecter. Instead of sending someone to an entirely different world, it sent them to another "world" in the same timeline or to the excess space in the same film.
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Yeah sorry, thanks for the quotes but i'm still confused as all heck 0.0 I don't think i've heard of a cosmology like this before, ever. So theres two earths (Or one??), but one time..line.... yeah.
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As far as I can tell, two universes separate from each other in a single timeline, with the second being a copy of the first. Only a copy of the universe itself, though; as the only sentient beings there seem to be those exiled by WR.
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Finished was well. Definitely liked it more than the last one.
Well, I will do the level 5 stuff today ones that last bit of discussion is finished.
Well, this time around mainly abilities have to be changed or added for the existing characters and around 3 profiles are to be made, I think?
But maybe let's already start talking about the only stat of an exsiting charcter that might needs to be reviewed this time around (I think)... Aleisters durability. What do we do with that? Just change it back to completly Unknown?
Well, I will do the level 5 stuff today ones that last bit of discussion is finished.
Well, this time around mainly abilities have to be changed or added for the existing characters and around 3 profiles are to be made, I think?
But maybe let's already start talking about the only stat of an exsiting charcter that might needs to be reviewed this time around (I think)... Aleisters durability. What do we do with that? Just change it back to completly Unknown?
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there is another option here, we could upgrade The handgun to low 2-C ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
About Aleister getting shot with a gun though... PIS?
About Aleister getting shot with a gun though... PIS?
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Actually perhaps just put it at Unknown and in brackets survived being attacked by the High Priest and injured with a gun
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Possibly 2-A Hangun sounds more realistic...
Regarding PIS... Well, I suspect it would usually be treated that way, knowing your average reasoning here.
Then again we don't have all that many durability feats for him.
To be honest towards the end I would think his stats will show themself to be lower, since with his current power he is undefeatable for any of the protagonists.
For nowing naming it possibly PIS and leaving the durability with Unknown and the brackets is a good idea I think.
Regarding PIS... Well, I suspect it would usually be treated that way, knowing your average reasoning here.
Then again we don't have all that many durability feats for him.
To be honest towards the end I would think his stats will show themself to be lower, since with his current power he is undefeatable for any of the protagonists.
For nowing naming it possibly PIS and leaving the durability with Unknown and the brackets is a good idea I think.
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Other things normal Toaru handguns have done: shot Gunha's heart, destroyed Aiwass' core. Clearly, Toaru handgun bullets are on the same level as normal highschool students. XD
Considering the much weaker nerfed High Priest could walk over Academy City's security forces it seems like PIS, though I'm in favor of leaving his Durability as Unknown, since surviving an attack doesn't actually mean High Priest was attacking him full power, we don't know what kind of attack it was except it burned him. Plus, from what Tsuchimikado said Aleister might have some kind of regen/immortality. Anyway, if we started upgrading characters from what they survived assuming all enemy attacks were full power we would have Mountain level Touma, which would hilariously lead to Mountain level special forces and Mountain level Tokiwadai Dorm Manager.
I'm actually more bothered by his and the Magic God's speed. I think Kamachi didn't intend the Hidden World's description to be taken as a measure of speed for them, it was just a way to display the kind of world they were secluded into so as to not disturb the real world too much. I'm actually interested in possibly revising the Magic God pages in the future and include all the new stuff we got, making 3 keys (Full Power, Zombie Spell, Nerfed), and the speed stat seems like an issue, though equalizing speed solves that, so it's not as bad as Othinus' Durability being Unknown
New Pages: Luca, Fran, Maya, Olivia (Maybe), Forgotten God.
Considering the much weaker nerfed High Priest could walk over Academy City's security forces it seems like PIS, though I'm in favor of leaving his Durability as Unknown, since surviving an attack doesn't actually mean High Priest was attacking him full power, we don't know what kind of attack it was except it burned him. Plus, from what Tsuchimikado said Aleister might have some kind of regen/immortality. Anyway, if we started upgrading characters from what they survived assuming all enemy attacks were full power we would have Mountain level Touma, which would hilariously lead to Mountain level special forces and Mountain level Tokiwadai Dorm Manager.
I'm actually more bothered by his and the Magic God's speed. I think Kamachi didn't intend the Hidden World's description to be taken as a measure of speed for them, it was just a way to display the kind of world they were secluded into so as to not disturb the real world too much. I'm actually interested in possibly revising the Magic God pages in the future and include all the new stuff we got, making 3 keys (Full Power, Zombie Spell, Nerfed), and the speed stat seems like an issue, though equalizing speed solves that, so it's not as bad as Othinus' Durability being Unknown
New Pages: Luca, Fran, Maya, Olivia (Maybe), Forgotten God.
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Well, the magic gods speed is only for when they are in the hidden world basically. It is not further rare for immeasureable characters to appear slower when manifesting in the human world (given that if they are manifesting like that in the world they want to be affected by the concept of space and time to be able to interact with the world like normal beings would).ÔÇ¿ Actually immeasureable speed is a bit different from simply being "faster" in normal sense in the first place.
I don't think the downgraded version (or at the very least the after aleister spell versions) should actually have that stat anymore though, given that they are restricted to the current world it seems.
If you want to revise the pages for more keys and details I will unlock them for you (now we at least have some good feats for them). It will need some stat gathering before that though.ÔÇ¿ (Zombie spell keys will remain mostly unknown though)
So on to some magic god feats of this volume (Those I had noted down because I thought them relevant to the current key mostly):
1. "The blue planet was already frozen pure white with no distinction between land and sea. And as the heavenly spears fell, they created dome-shaped explosions. Based on the scale, those blasts had to be swallowing up not just Academy City but the entire country."
[...]ÔÇ¿
"Niang-Niang showed no mercy against the muscular man floating quite nearby. The man also had a strange prosthetic leg with a large circular mirror embedded in it. ÔÇ¿
She slapped him.
She remade her arm into a giant hammer and knocked that god straight down toward the surface of the earth.
A shooting star fell.
It fell somewhere on the earth and caused an explosion far larger than the previous ones. Instead of just one point, it was more like the entire planet emitted light like a giant lightbulb. Kamisato almost thought the planet was going to set on fire and be reborn as a star."ÔÇ¿
So here we have country level explosions, which meet the country level hype they got in earlier volumes IIRC. Initially I wondered wether one could interpret the explosion that happened after Niang-Niang punched down "the muscular man" as her striking strength, to finally have some feat for teh magic gods physical capabilities, but sadly that was its magic...
2. Capablity wise Chimera was the most interesting one. First:
"Oh, a human like you should avoid looking right at her. It's just like looking at the sun though a normal telescope and your very soul will burn away if you have poor morals."
So, Soul damage? That would give the rest of the Magic Gods resistance to Soul damage then.
Second:
" Oh, and hearing her voice or smelling her scent could drive you mad, so be careful."
Some things were unavoidable even after being warned.
Beyond his darkening vision, he heard an unstable and high-pitched sound like metal scraping together.
"Giin giin, gwan gwan, giin, gwin gwiin, giin giin, gwin, gwan, giin!!"
"Yes, yes. We can chat later! I know you might want to show off ever last inch of your naked body since you finally have someone to 'appreciate' it, but if you make Kamisato-chan go along with your perverted exhibitionism, he'll drown in his own brain juices!!"
Kamisato could feel tears pouring down his cheeks and his head was full of questions. Had that been a voice he had heard? Could the other Magic Gods hear it like normal? But when he tried to process it in his own mind, he was overcome by nausea like an extreme case of motion sickness. It was a dangerous sort of nausea, like he had been punched in the back of the head instead of just in the gut. "
I think this falls under mind attacks then. Again resistance to it for the magic gods.
3. Emotion manipulation for Nephthys: ""But your legend about crying at a god's funeral means you can interfere with the other Magic Gods' emotions and focus! There are tears of joy, tears of anger, tears of sorrow, and tears of awe! You can do whatever you want, so just jam them!!" "
There is also the freeze the whole earth surface to -60┬░C feat... Doing a swift estimation on that it suprisingly will not increase beyond the Country level stat they have through explosion either way.
Niang-Niang flying in sattelite orbit makes for a nice flight speed at least. Sattelite orbit is usually low earth orbit and orbiting speed there should be around 6.9 km/s, so Mach 20 flight speed feat... it's something. (might write that bit under one of the other calcs for this volume, should it be relevant)
I don't think the downgraded version (or at the very least the after aleister spell versions) should actually have that stat anymore though, given that they are restricted to the current world it seems.
If you want to revise the pages for more keys and details I will unlock them for you (now we at least have some good feats for them). It will need some stat gathering before that though.ÔÇ¿ (Zombie spell keys will remain mostly unknown though)
So on to some magic god feats of this volume (Those I had noted down because I thought them relevant to the current key mostly):
1. "The blue planet was already frozen pure white with no distinction between land and sea. And as the heavenly spears fell, they created dome-shaped explosions. Based on the scale, those blasts had to be swallowing up not just Academy City but the entire country."
[...]ÔÇ¿
"Niang-Niang showed no mercy against the muscular man floating quite nearby. The man also had a strange prosthetic leg with a large circular mirror embedded in it. ÔÇ¿
She slapped him.
She remade her arm into a giant hammer and knocked that god straight down toward the surface of the earth.
A shooting star fell.
It fell somewhere on the earth and caused an explosion far larger than the previous ones. Instead of just one point, it was more like the entire planet emitted light like a giant lightbulb. Kamisato almost thought the planet was going to set on fire and be reborn as a star."ÔÇ¿
So here we have country level explosions, which meet the country level hype they got in earlier volumes IIRC. Initially I wondered wether one could interpret the explosion that happened after Niang-Niang punched down "the muscular man" as her striking strength, to finally have some feat for teh magic gods physical capabilities, but sadly that was its magic...
2. Capablity wise Chimera was the most interesting one. First:
"Oh, a human like you should avoid looking right at her. It's just like looking at the sun though a normal telescope and your very soul will burn away if you have poor morals."
So, Soul damage? That would give the rest of the Magic Gods resistance to Soul damage then.
Second:
" Oh, and hearing her voice or smelling her scent could drive you mad, so be careful."
Some things were unavoidable even after being warned.
Beyond his darkening vision, he heard an unstable and high-pitched sound like metal scraping together.
"Giin giin, gwan gwan, giin, gwin gwiin, giin giin, gwin, gwan, giin!!"
"Yes, yes. We can chat later! I know you might want to show off ever last inch of your naked body since you finally have someone to 'appreciate' it, but if you make Kamisato-chan go along with your perverted exhibitionism, he'll drown in his own brain juices!!"
Kamisato could feel tears pouring down his cheeks and his head was full of questions. Had that been a voice he had heard? Could the other Magic Gods hear it like normal? But when he tried to process it in his own mind, he was overcome by nausea like an extreme case of motion sickness. It was a dangerous sort of nausea, like he had been punched in the back of the head instead of just in the gut. "
I think this falls under mind attacks then. Again resistance to it for the magic gods.
3. Emotion manipulation for Nephthys: ""But your legend about crying at a god's funeral means you can interfere with the other Magic Gods' emotions and focus! There are tears of joy, tears of anger, tears of sorrow, and tears of awe! You can do whatever you want, so just jam them!!" "
There is also the freeze the whole earth surface to -60┬░C feat... Doing a swift estimation on that it suprisingly will not increase beyond the Country level stat they have through explosion either way.
Niang-Niang flying in sattelite orbit makes for a nice flight speed at least. Sattelite orbit is usually low earth orbit and orbiting speed there should be around 6.9 km/s, so Mach 20 flight speed feat... it's something. (might write that bit under one of the other calcs for this volume, should it be relevant)
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I was also thinking at least Country level for the nerfed Magic Gods given NT13 hype and the feats here. Speed maybe we could also add when Niang-Niang stabbed Mikoto with her Pao Pei without her being able to react from NT13 for attack/combat speed. I agree with the resistances and Nephthys' emotion manipulation.
Thanks, but I'm not planning on doing the Magic God revisions right now. I'm thinking it might be useful to first do a blog for Toaru where we can put the quotes and feats for them so that we don't have to add them to all their pages. The blog could also explain the "at least City Block level" for Level 5s and the "Mountain level/Island level" for Saint/Saint+ fighters.
About Claire, given what she did in the helicopter chase, maybe we should upgrade her to "at least Wall level" and "Subsonic flying speed".
For Olivia, probably the same, though likely with human durability.
Luca, I'm thinking "at least Wall level and Peak Human speed, possibly Superhuman" for helping the others fight the Elements in NT16 (with Luca pairing up with Salome in melee). There's also the quote from this volume:
It was Elza, the eyepatch pirate girl named Luca, the cosplay girl named Olivia, and others with enough firepower to single-handedly break open a bank vault who crossed the overpass.
Fran didn't show off any offensive magic this volume, but she still has the "focusing all the microwaves in a single point" from last volume's epilogue.
Maya probably her regular form is Street/Wall level AP, as she also helped fight the Elements last volume. Unknown Durability, though None would fit better given that she doesn't have a physical body. For her big form, she has the "being as tall as a high-rise building" part (though I'm unsure if we can use this for a calc, given that she clearly doesn't achieve her AP from real weight or actual physical interaction), asily stomping buses and destroying the mountain slope. What would that be, CB or MCB level?
Thanks, but I'm not planning on doing the Magic God revisions right now. I'm thinking it might be useful to first do a blog for Toaru where we can put the quotes and feats for them so that we don't have to add them to all their pages. The blog could also explain the "at least City Block level" for Level 5s and the "Mountain level/Island level" for Saint/Saint+ fighters.
About Claire, given what she did in the helicopter chase, maybe we should upgrade her to "at least Wall level" and "Subsonic flying speed".
For Olivia, probably the same, though likely with human durability.
Luca, I'm thinking "at least Wall level and Peak Human speed, possibly Superhuman" for helping the others fight the Elements in NT16 (with Luca pairing up with Salome in melee). There's also the quote from this volume:
It was Elza, the eyepatch pirate girl named Luca, the cosplay girl named Olivia, and others with enough firepower to single-handedly break open a bank vault who crossed the overpass.
Fran didn't show off any offensive magic this volume, but she still has the "focusing all the microwaves in a single point" from last volume's epilogue.
Maya probably her regular form is Street/Wall level AP, as she also helped fight the Elements last volume. Unknown Durability, though None would fit better given that she doesn't have a physical body. For her big form, she has the "being as tall as a high-rise building" part (though I'm unsure if we can use this for a calc, given that she clearly doesn't achieve her AP from real weight or actual physical interaction), asily stomping buses and destroying the mountain slope. What would that be, CB or MCB level?
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We put the Multiverse+ level Durability in "Likely" because we're not 100% sure about it, as they weren't shown fighting each other before being nerfed by Aleister.
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I agree for Clair and Olivia.
The power of Frans microwaves needs a calculation, I guess. So does her dropping her space station (even though that will end up speculative as long as we know nothing about the form of it).
Regarding Maya:
Durability wise she should have something other than None. Even though not having a physical body she can interact with her sourroundings so she is partly tangible in those cases. If she had no durability the moment she touched something it would destroy that tangible part of her body basically. So while I would mention her usual state, I would still note something for her durability.
In that regards I would scale Striking Strength to durability here.
For her giant forms AP I am unsure. I would think building level at least, but beyond that I am not sure. The mountain slope thingy could be CB level or something, but I am uncertain. While I could go as far as to pinpoint the "mountains" in Academy City since we can more or less exactly pinpoint where academy city is located in Tokyo (mountains in "" because they probably aren't higher than 30 meter or something), even then I am not sure how much slope was actually destroyed, in terms of volume.
The power of Frans microwaves needs a calculation, I guess. So does her dropping her space station (even though that will end up speculative as long as we know nothing about the form of it).
Regarding Maya:
Durability wise she should have something other than None. Even though not having a physical body she can interact with her sourroundings so she is partly tangible in those cases. If she had no durability the moment she touched something it would destroy that tangible part of her body basically. So while I would mention her usual state, I would still note something for her durability.
In that regards I would scale Striking Strength to durability here.
For her giant forms AP I am unsure. I would think building level at least, but beyond that I am not sure. The mountain slope thingy could be CB level or something, but I am uncertain. While I could go as far as to pinpoint the "mountains" in Academy City since we can more or less exactly pinpoint where academy city is located in Tokyo (mountains in "" because they probably aren't higher than 30 meter or something), even then I am not sure how much slope was actually destroyed, in terms of volume.
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So at least Building level for Maya's giant form? I'm okay with that.
I'm still not sure about the Durability, though. The novel makes sure to establish that she lacks a physical body so physical attacks are useless, giving her Durability makes it sound like she can be harmed physically.
I'm still not sure about the Durability, though. The novel makes sure to establish that she lacks a physical body so physical attacks are useless, giving her Durability makes it sound like she can be harmed physically.
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For the nerfed magic gods, we also have High Priest stomping Fiamma with his new Fairy Spell in NT13 and one of Tezcatlipoca's attcks being said to possibly be capable of destroying the Windowless Building in this volume, so we could list those things in a "possibly higher" tier. Still far from their claims of "we can still destroy the world, we just can't bring it back", but it's something.
A spear of light dropped from heaven and toward earth.
It passed right by the rocket as it tried to leave the planet. The Windowless Building could survive a nuclear weapon, but it may have been blown to pieces had it been hit.
Can't find anything for Durability or Speed for them under Zombie's spell, though, since they have like two scenes while under it. Maybe this bit from NT12's Epilogue?
"Word gets to you quickly. Anyway, this might be an excellent opportunity for you, Aleister. Our power is limited to what can be explained in this world, so this would be the best time to kill us."
Even that line had the implied caveat of "but it is still essentially impossible".
For one thing, no one existed who could kill a being that the world could only just barely contain. Whether a Magic God's power was divided by a billion or a trillion, a mere magician was still not enough to kill them
Plus as mentioned there, High Priest though it would still be impossible for Aleister to kill them, even after the fight and him ruining their hideout.
Side-note, I've started the blog post about Toaru, so tell me if you want me to add a quote or anything in particular.
A spear of light dropped from heaven and toward earth.
It passed right by the rocket as it tried to leave the planet. The Windowless Building could survive a nuclear weapon, but it may have been blown to pieces had it been hit.
Can't find anything for Durability or Speed for them under Zombie's spell, though, since they have like two scenes while under it. Maybe this bit from NT12's Epilogue?
"Word gets to you quickly. Anyway, this might be an excellent opportunity for you, Aleister. Our power is limited to what can be explained in this world, so this would be the best time to kill us."
Even that line had the implied caveat of "but it is still essentially impossible".
For one thing, no one existed who could kill a being that the world could only just barely contain. Whether a Magic God's power was divided by a billion or a trillion, a mere magician was still not enough to kill them
Plus as mentioned there, High Priest though it would still be impossible for Aleister to kill them, even after the fight and him ruining their hideout.
Side-note, I've started the blog post about Toaru, so tell me if you want me to add a quote or anything in particular.
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mm if Tezcatlipoca's attack would have destroyed the windowless building that would make it High 6-A, since Accelerators attack on it did nothing
Also about the High Priest and Fiamma, I don't think we know if Fiamma ever got the spell off? it kind of cut away at that point
Also about the High Priest and Fiamma, I don't think we know if Fiamma ever got the spell off? it kind of cut away at that point
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Regarding Maya:
Well, I can say that most ghosts and non-corporeal entities on here have some kind of durabilty stat, as far as I am aware. It is fine to first and foremost state in the profile that she is intangible, but as far as we can conclude some durabilty I would write one down, even if the only purpose is in regards to how much force she can take from characters that can physically harm intangible stuff.
Regarding the magic gods:
I would honestly leave their durability and speed for zombies spell version as unknown. We really don't know how much it was at that point.
Regarding the blog:
Nothing much at this point.
If you want to note down the reasoning for the true magic gods stats here is the original reasoning text I gave for their rankings, which might makes the formulation part a bit easier or something:
So let me take an attempt to reasoning out the magic gods power based on the more recent events. The magic gods got weaker two times in the recent volumes. One time they reduced their power themselves in order to be weak enough to not passively destroy the universe and one time they all got hit by a weakening spell from Aleister Crowley.
The idea behind the argumentation is that if we know how much weaker they got and how strong they are after being weakened we can reason out how strong they would be at full power.
The important weakening for this is the part were they weakened themselves, since we know how much weaker they became.
"By splitting up our power infinitely, we can intentionally weaken ourselves and avoid destroying the world whenever we move an arm or leg."
They divided their power by infinite so we know how much weaker they got. So how strong were they at that point?
"My power as a Magic God is currently limited and I only retain one thin layer of the power piled up like the infinite layers of an onion or matryoshka doll. But infinitely dividing that infinite power still leaves me with enough power to just barely be contained in this world!" - High Priest (magic God)
"Do you mean that spell that infinitely divides the infinite capacity of a Magic God to trick the world by eternally layering existences that are just barely small enough for the world to contain?" - ALeister Crowley (enemy of the magic gods)
So they have power just barely small enough for the universe to contain. With that information we can get an idea of their power in two ways.
1. Passive:
We know that the magic gods initial power was so big that they would destroy the universe just by existing in it. 1/∞ of their power is so much that it can barely be contained without destroying the universe. So any part a lot bigger than 1/∞ should destroy the universe. Now basically any finite fraction would be a lot bigger than 1/∞, even some really low one like 1/10500. So if their power would be divided over that many universes all of them would be destroyed. So it stands to reason that their Attack Potency would be around that much.
2. Active:
We know a weaker magic god, Othinus, who can certainly destroy a universe by actively using her power. Her power is also low enough to be contained in an universe, as she never had any problems with existing in one. That means power that can be contained in an universe can be enough to destroy an universe. So 1/∞ of the Magic gods power, that can be barely contained in an universe, should be enough to destroy an universe. That fact is supported by the fact that even after first weakening herself to 1/∞ of her power and then being hit by Aleister Crowleys weakening spell Nephthys had enough power to rewrite the universe once.
"That made Nephthys different from the other Magic Gods. The others had thoroughly honed their powers as an individual, but she had specialized her power as something that could be separated, split apart, cut away, and swapped out.
In other words, she held it in reserve.
Even after being hit by Aleister's weakening spell, she still had enough power to swap out the phase just once."
To swap out the phase means rewriting the state of the universe. As is said it is something that is special to Nephthys and the other Magic gods were weaker in this state, but that is after the additional weakening spell, so the other magic gods should be able to do the same before being hit by it.
So, if 1/∞ of a magic gods power can rewrite the universe than all infinite parts of it should be able to rewrite infinite universes.
Both cases would fall into the range of Tier 2-A.
So this is how far my reasoning takes me... What do you think, everyone?
@LordAizenSama: Rereading the scene I suppose you're right in that it wasn't clearly stated whether the fairy spell hit, though I feel like the sentence "Not even his prized fairy spell had stopped the High Priest." strongly implies it to have been used on High Priest.
Well, I can say that most ghosts and non-corporeal entities on here have some kind of durabilty stat, as far as I am aware. It is fine to first and foremost state in the profile that she is intangible, but as far as we can conclude some durabilty I would write one down, even if the only purpose is in regards to how much force she can take from characters that can physically harm intangible stuff.
Regarding the magic gods:
I would honestly leave their durability and speed for zombies spell version as unknown. We really don't know how much it was at that point.
Regarding the blog:
Nothing much at this point.
If you want to note down the reasoning for the true magic gods stats here is the original reasoning text I gave for their rankings, which might makes the formulation part a bit easier or something:
So let me take an attempt to reasoning out the magic gods power based on the more recent events. The magic gods got weaker two times in the recent volumes. One time they reduced their power themselves in order to be weak enough to not passively destroy the universe and one time they all got hit by a weakening spell from Aleister Crowley.
The idea behind the argumentation is that if we know how much weaker they got and how strong they are after being weakened we can reason out how strong they would be at full power.
The important weakening for this is the part were they weakened themselves, since we know how much weaker they became.
"By splitting up our power infinitely, we can intentionally weaken ourselves and avoid destroying the world whenever we move an arm or leg."
They divided their power by infinite so we know how much weaker they got. So how strong were they at that point?
"My power as a Magic God is currently limited and I only retain one thin layer of the power piled up like the infinite layers of an onion or matryoshka doll. But infinitely dividing that infinite power still leaves me with enough power to just barely be contained in this world!" - High Priest (magic God)
"Do you mean that spell that infinitely divides the infinite capacity of a Magic God to trick the world by eternally layering existences that are just barely small enough for the world to contain?" - ALeister Crowley (enemy of the magic gods)
So they have power just barely small enough for the universe to contain. With that information we can get an idea of their power in two ways.
1. Passive:
We know that the magic gods initial power was so big that they would destroy the universe just by existing in it. 1/∞ of their power is so much that it can barely be contained without destroying the universe. So any part a lot bigger than 1/∞ should destroy the universe. Now basically any finite fraction would be a lot bigger than 1/∞, even some really low one like 1/10500. So if their power would be divided over that many universes all of them would be destroyed. So it stands to reason that their Attack Potency would be around that much.
2. Active:
We know a weaker magic god, Othinus, who can certainly destroy a universe by actively using her power. Her power is also low enough to be contained in an universe, as she never had any problems with existing in one. That means power that can be contained in an universe can be enough to destroy an universe. So 1/∞ of the Magic gods power, that can be barely contained in an universe, should be enough to destroy an universe. That fact is supported by the fact that even after first weakening herself to 1/∞ of her power and then being hit by Aleister Crowleys weakening spell Nephthys had enough power to rewrite the universe once.
"That made Nephthys different from the other Magic Gods. The others had thoroughly honed their powers as an individual, but she had specialized her power as something that could be separated, split apart, cut away, and swapped out.
In other words, she held it in reserve.
Even after being hit by Aleister's weakening spell, she still had enough power to swap out the phase just once."
To swap out the phase means rewriting the state of the universe. As is said it is something that is special to Nephthys and the other Magic gods were weaker in this state, but that is after the additional weakening spell, so the other magic gods should be able to do the same before being hit by it.
So, if 1/∞ of a magic gods power can rewrite the universe than all infinite parts of it should be able to rewrite infinite universes.
Both cases would fall into the range of Tier 2-A.
So this is how far my reasoning takes me... What do you think, everyone?
@LordAizenSama: Rereading the scene I suppose you're right in that it wasn't clearly stated whether the fairy spell hit, though I feel like the sentence "Not even his prized fairy spell had stopped the High Priest." strongly implies it to have been used on High Priest.
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I'll make Maya's page and add the Durability for her giant form like you said.
Well, it was worth a shot, but I guess we'll have to leave the Durability as Unknown. I'll probably do the Forgotten God's page first, and if we all agree with the keys there we can start updating the other pages.
For the blog, next part I'll go over the basics of what a magic god is and then begin with Othinus, which will mostly be quotes of her different powers and the statements that clarify that world in her case is not "planet". The Gremlin Magic Gods part will likely have that explanation, thanks.
Well, it was worth a shot, but I guess we'll have to leave the Durability as Unknown. I'll probably do the Forgotten God's page first, and if we all agree with the keys there we can start updating the other pages.
For the blog, next part I'll go over the basics of what a magic god is and then begin with Othinus, which will mostly be quotes of her different powers and the statements that clarify that world in her case is not "planet". The Gremlin Magic Gods part will likely have that explanation, thanks.
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The Forgotten God's page is done. So, is this format with the 3 keys OK?
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looks good to me
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He's "at least 6-B" because that's the strongest feat the nerfed magic gods have, despite being likely higher than that.
Fiamma's defeat is not enough to upgrade them at his base level because Fiamma can't use Holy Right in NT except for special circumstances, which they weren't fulfilled when he fought High Priest, so there's no actual way to know how strong he actually was with his custom Fairy Spell. Tezcatlipoca's attacks were described as "might have had enough power to blow the Windowless Building to pieces", so it's not a sure thing. Thus, those two things being "possibly".
Forgotten God is the only one with 3 keys because we didn't have enough info to make the nerfed version of them, which the most recent volume changed. I did his page so we could decide if the format is good enough. If DontTalk gives me to OK, I'll go over the other Magic Gods and update them like this. The only ones that differ from this format are Nephthys and Zombie.
Fiamma's defeat is not enough to upgrade them at his base level because Fiamma can't use Holy Right in NT except for special circumstances, which they weren't fulfilled when he fought High Priest, so there's no actual way to know how strong he actually was with his custom Fairy Spell. Tezcatlipoca's attacks were described as "might have had enough power to blow the Windowless Building to pieces", so it's not a sure thing. Thus, those two things being "possibly".
Forgotten God is the only one with 3 keys because we didn't have enough info to make the nerfed version of them, which the most recent volume changed. I did his page so we could decide if the format is good enough. If DontTalk gives me to OK, I'll go over the other Magic Gods and update them like this. The only ones that differ from this format are Nephthys and Zombie.
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^ that not my point tho Accel with 5 min worth of the planet energy couldn't scratch the windowless building and Forgotten God more or less did better than him so the rest of the magic gods scale to him not the opposite
Seems i am missing something
Looking a the magic gods page is painful tho lol kamachi just love his nerf doesn't he ? i never knew what the point of them in the first place index isn't about breaking universe and stuff
Seems i am missing something
Looking a the magic gods page is painful tho lol kamachi just love his nerf doesn't he ? i never knew what the point of them in the first place index isn't about breaking universe and stuff
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What? Forgotten God only showed up in an underground area of Academy City chasing after Kakeru, Nephthys and Niang-Niang. He doesn't have feats beyond being comparable to the others as shown by him being able to fight them and even momentarily overpowering Niang-Niang.
Magic Gods were a bait for the readers, who would obviously think True Gremlin would be the villains of the next big arc, when they were really there to reinforce Aleister's position as the main antagonist of the series and introduce the real next arc with Kakeru and World Rejecter.
BTW i think othinus is pretty underrated in this site is there any chance she can be upgraded ?
Not really, no.
Magic Gods were a bait for the readers, who would obviously think True Gremlin would be the villains of the next big arc, when they were really there to reinforce Aleister's position as the main antagonist of the series and introduce the real next arc with Kakeru and World Rejecter.
BTW i think othinus is pretty underrated in this site is there any chance she can be upgraded ?
Not really, no.
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Regarding Mayas page: I think that she exists as long as her smell does qualifies her for immortality type 8?
The forgotten God page seems mostly good, just that I would make seperate powers and abilities for the second two keys.
Under Zombie's Spell they can still add phases I would think (given that they can still destroy the universe...), so there they retain most abilities except existing in non-existant places.
After Aleister's Hijacking Spell they seem to be restricted to magic that has to do with them though, so we have to look at the abilities they individually demonstrated for that.
The forgotten God page seems mostly good, just that I would make seperate powers and abilities for the second two keys.
Under Zombie's Spell they can still add phases I would think (given that they can still destroy the universe...), so there they retain most abilities except existing in non-existant places.
After Aleister's Hijacking Spell they seem to be restricted to magic that has to do with them though, so we have to look at the abilities they individually demonstrated for that.
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Maybe? It is a bit weird.
It'd be a bit complicated/messy to repeat the list of powers for the other 2 keys. Maybe we can add a note like this at the end of each page? (X being the name of the Magic God)
Note:
It'd be a bit complicated/messy to repeat the list of powers for the other 2 keys. Maybe we can add a note like this at the end of each page? (X being the name of the Magic God)
Note:
- Under Zombie's Spell X loses the ability to exist in non-existant places.
- After Aleister's hijacked Zombie's Spell, X lost all their his/her powers except for Superhuman Physical Characteristis, Magic, Immortality (Type 1), Resistance to Mind and Soul attacks, + whatever powers X displayed while nerfed
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I would simply do the section like this:
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Reality Warping, Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Teleportation, Matter Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Sensory Manipulation, Changing the laws of nature, Death Manipulation, Existing in non-existent places, Mathematics Manipulation, Durability Negation, Regenerationn (Mid, possibly up to High), Immortality (Types 1 & 3, possibly 4), Resistance to Soul and Mind attacks | All prior, except Existing in non-existent places | Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Resistance to Soul and Mind attacks, +whatever powers X displayed while nerfed
Like that everything is in one place.
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Reality Warping, Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation, Teleportation, Matter Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Sensory Manipulation, Changing the laws of nature, Death Manipulation, Existing in non-existent places, Mathematics Manipulation, Durability Negation, Regenerationn (Mid, possibly up to High), Immortality (Types 1 & 3, possibly 4), Resistance to Soul and Mind attacks | All prior, except Existing in non-existent places | Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Magic, Resistance to Soul and Mind attacks, +whatever powers X displayed while nerfed
Like that everything is in one place.
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OK, then once I finish with the blog I can start updating the pages.
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The blog is basically finished. It has all the relevant quotes for Othinus and the other Magic Gods. I'm ready to start updating their pages.
I noticed we missed updating Rensa when we did the Level 5 updates. I'm curious, would she get Wall level physical stats if Doppelganger is revealed to be a prototype of her or something similar?
We're surprisingly caught up with Accelerator, probably because the last volume was released and good raws were finally available. A lot of exposition about Taowu and the Rosenthal family. I find interesting that Taowu couldn't pronounce the name of the "self-proclaimed demon" with human language. That plus the halo and wings cement this as angel territory. But we're still not finished with the first arc of the series after 31 chapters... At least Accelerator got some cool applications of his wind and earth manipulation.
I noticed we missed updating Rensa when we did the Level 5 updates. I'm curious, would she get Wall level physical stats if Doppelganger is revealed to be a prototype of her or something similar?
We're surprisingly caught up with Accelerator, probably because the last volume was released and good raws were finally available. A lot of exposition about Taowu and the Rosenthal family. I find interesting that Taowu couldn't pronounce the name of the "self-proclaimed demon" with human language. That plus the halo and wings cement this as angel territory. But we're still not finished with the first arc of the series after 31 chapters... At least Accelerator got some cool applications of his wind and earth manipulation.
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I read through the blog. Good work there.
Just some minor thing, since I don't want to edit your blog posts: The 1/10500 in my explanation got copied over as 1/10500. Since 1/10500 universes is the border between 2-B and 2-A it is meaningful to be that particular number.
Got Rensa updated now (hope I didn't miss some stat). Still have to update on her abilities sometime.
Regarding the accel manga: I wonder who the demon could be... Aiwass maybe?
And Accelerator can do rasengan now xD
Say once you are online to start updating the profiles, I will unlock them then. (provided I am not offline at that time myself, of course)
Just some minor thing, since I don't want to edit your blog posts: The 1/10500 in my explanation got copied over as 1/10500. Since 1/10500 universes is the border between 2-B and 2-A it is meaningful to be that particular number.
Got Rensa updated now (hope I didn't miss some stat). Still have to update on her abilities sometime.
Regarding the accel manga: I wonder who the demon could be... Aiwass maybe?
And Accelerator can do rasengan now xD
Say once you are online to start updating the profiles, I will unlock them then. (provided I am not offline at that time myself, of course)
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The 1/10500 in my explanation got copied over as 1/10500.
Oops, Fixing that now.
It would be a big bomb to drop something like Aiwass in the first arc of the manga. Then again Railgun had the first appearance of Misaki and the multiple dragons for the Daihaseisai arc. Accelerator has gotten some cool moves from the manga: bioelectricity reversal, earth spikes, air constricting ropes, air barriers (that he can fly with carrying others). Didn't expect rasengan, though.
I'm online for now, so if you want I can start doing them. Do you want me to keep the feats section? Side-note, I'll probably change the reasonings for Forgotten God's tiering to a more simple "comparable to other nerfed Magic Gods, briefly overpowered Niang-Niang" with appropiate links and move those to the page of the actual Magic God who has the feat/statement.
Oops, Fixing that now.
It would be a big bomb to drop something like Aiwass in the first arc of the manga. Then again Railgun had the first appearance of Misaki and the multiple dragons for the Daihaseisai arc. Accelerator has gotten some cool moves from the manga: bioelectricity reversal, earth spikes, air constricting ropes, air barriers (that he can fly with carrying others). Didn't expect rasengan, though.
I'm online for now, so if you want I can start doing them. Do you want me to keep the feats section? Side-note, I'll probably change the reasonings for Forgotten God's tiering to a more simple "comparable to other nerfed Magic Gods, briefly overpowered Niang-Niang" with appropiate links and move those to the page of the actual Magic God who has the feat/statement.
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Thanks. I'm done with the pages, so you can relock them.
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We should probably change Seike's Gender to unknown after this weeks chapter of railgun.
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In the previous chapter he did basically confess to being a boy to Mikoto, and "gender: unknown" is a common joke for traps in manga/anime.
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Does anyone know a good source for reading To Aru Majutsu no Index? I've seen the anime series, however it seems like it's going to be awhile before the next one comes along. So I was wondering where's a good place to read futher into the story?
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