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Toaru Majutsu no Index General Discussion Thread 2

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@LazyHunter: I saw you added a note about To Arus dimensions to the explanation thread. Not sure if worth to explicitely mention, given that all relating quotes are already in the blog, but the hidden world seems to not be part of to arus dimensional space (or at least not the 11 dimensional one).

Reasons for that:

a) it is a place in which the concepts of distance and time in general don't matter.

b) "The world was temporarily led to destruction as a result, but I still had to prioritize this. It wasn't easy converting coordinates filled with non-existent numbers into decimal."

-Aleister needed time to calculate the coordinates, even though a middle schooler in to aru can calculate 11 dimensional trajectories in their head.

-every coordinate in common math is made up entirely of existing numbers, no matter the dimensions. That the place has coordinates with non-existent numbers basically shows that a non-existant place really can not be located like a "place" in space and time, even when accounting for higher dimensions.


While in a sense one could think that the terminology "non-existent" makes the fact that it is different than being just outside of a timeline, in a higher dimension, clear, I think in regards to our tiering this is an interesting little detail.
 
To be fair, higher level espers have superhuman calculation capabilities, so I wouldn't put Kuroko at "middle school level". Then again, IIRC there's a quote about skill-out mooks being olympic athlete-level, so maybe that's normal for the verse, like the apparent Universal level handguns XD

Like the Othinus quote from NT12, it's a bit vague, but it is an interesting detail.
 
I think I will do Frans page sometime during the next days.

Except for the calculated AP feats, would she have human stats everywhere or am I forgetting something?
 
Yeah, Human level physical AP, speed and Durability. I think she's not part of the combat faction of the group. She didn't participate in the fight against the Elements or Yuiitsu, and her attack on Claire had the element of surprise. Not that I'd expect Claire to dodge Fran's microwave attack.

I might do Yakumaru's page soon (the chemical girl from Scavenger), though I'll have to look how to rate her thermite and coolant, her explosives are likely wall level since they are capable of blowing up Naru's paper bunnysuit. After that, I'll maybe try to do Aizono Mio, but since she's not canon I'll have to get an admin's permission.
 
Railgun chapter 91. The profile this time is Naru, but it doesn't give new info on her power. As for the chapter, we have Doppelganger's absorption/control thing overpowering Mikoto's magnetism and nearly dropping a huge fuel tank on her head. At the end she makes bigger by absorping nearly materials, which fittingly reminds Mikoto of Sherry and her golem. Also, Scavenger improvise a vehicle by combining Naru's paper and Yaku's chemicals, that was cool.
 
Regarding Yakumarus AP:

I searched yesterday for the chemical formula for her Potassium permanganate + Antimony reaction (interestingly that is actually an existing modern Reaction), but no luck. Sadly my chemistry lessons are also too long ago for me to remember how to do it myself...

But the "not even bones are left" statement is probably more interesting either way. Burning a human completly should be room level.


Freezing a human on the other hand is probably just wall level.
 
I'll change the thermite to room level, then, thanks. I also did Doppelganger's page.

@Yojimbo1989

Unfortunately, the last time they were asked about it (before HO) JCStaff said that there were no plans for a third season, and when asked later about a possible S3 for Railgun JCStaff said that it would be after a hypothetical third Index season. I wouldn't get my hopes up for a third season after how they screwed up HO's announcement.
 
Nice.

I'm not sure if it would be worth it besides an increased lifting strength. She can only do that pseudo-telekinesis when damaged/destroyed and only on inanimate objects. We also don't have an AP for Mikoto's magnetism, so I too don't know what to give her.
 
And from what I saw from the raw misaka also gets a new application of her ability.

To Aru is going full mecha now.
 
I still can't believe we're at chapter 32 and we still have not finished the first arc. Like, I'm interested in the parts regarding Hirumi and the plan DA had of using Last Order to mess with phases, but this arc is at least a dozen of chapters longer than it should be. IMO it should have started with something simpler and shorter like Railgun did.
 
Railgun 92 was translated. Nothing much that couldn't be deduced from the images, basically Mikoto figuring out the limits of Doppelganger's possesion as they fight. I seem to recall Mikoto using iron sand railguns somewhere else, can't remember when.

ED: Found it, it was in her fight with Gunha from Fanfare. I added that, her countering Fran's microwaves and the Iron Sand giant to her page. I also re-organized her list of powers a bit.
 
There are some stat changes to be done as well, no?

I would think the Doppelganger can get a key with Large Building level due to size of her golem.

Likewise I think Misakas Iron Sand manipulation should be put at Large Building level, simply due to the mass she manipulated there.

I wonder wether her method of stopping Regenerationn by inducing iron sand is worth mentioning?


Regarding the "Resistance to electricity and attempts to manipulate her brain through bioelectricity"-change, wouldn't it be more correct to say

"Resistance to electricity and attempts to manipulate her brain due to manipulating her own bioelectricity"?

After all Misakis power does not directly manipulate bioelectricity and there are possibly other forms of interference with the brain that can be avoided due to this ability.
 
I agree with the Doppelganger's second key being Large Building level. The iron sand puppet seems to be only a bit weaker than the Doppelganger, so I have no issue with Large Building level Iron Sand, especially since she used it to easily slice FIVE_Overs to pieces... Now that I think about, it, do you think we should upgrade Railgun Five Over's Durability to Large Building level? A barrage of a gatling railgun easily demolishes weaker powered suits and goes through several stories of a building, but Mikoto could use one as a shield in NT10. The railgun didn't pierce it in one shot and instead gradually destroyed it.

Mikoto frantically spoke up, but the Five Over aimed its giant arm toward her. Seeing the bundle of railgun barrels begin to rotate, she paled and used powerful magnetism to levitate a different nearby unit as a shield.

Piece after piece of the shield was torn through with a deafening noise.

For the iron sand trick she pulled towards the end, Mikoto just introduced the iron sand inside the arm while it was regenerating to re-destroy it from the inside. We can wait until next chapter, but I don't see how the trick stops the Doppelganger from regenerating the arm again. Unless you meant mentioning the tactic of introducing the iron sand to attack a body from the inside, which it's neat and worth mentioning. We mention the plasma ion cans and the EM pulses she has used like once, so you can add it if you want.

What do you think of the Doppelganger that grew out of the giant's head? Some sort of Duplication? It doesn't look like the original cyborg body we still saw a few pages back, this one has white hair without stripes. Maybe it's just some sort of transformation, though that would imply actual Regenerationn since it has its arm and right side of its face back.

Regarding the bioelectricity, that might be a better way to put it. Though I'm not aware of many bioelectric telepaths/mind controllers (Oudo and his partner from Medaka Box are the only ones that come to mind at the moment), it's probably a popular mechanic for the ability.
 
I'm making the page for Mio Aizono, the villain from the Railgun PSP game. AP and Durability are pretty clear for once, and we might have a speed feat, but since something has to be wrong, there's no good pictures of her.

This is the feat, she and Mikoto are trying to interrogate a henchman they caught after Mio sliced his car in two and the car explodes while Mio's right next to it.

"W-wait a second!! The wires were severed when you cut the car in two and this will be no joke if that's ignited by the lighter!!"

"Ahh!! You idiot! Don't come toward me while sending sparks everywhere like that!!"

"Eh?"

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!"

With a great explosive noise, the turkey that was the star of the party was served up.

Aizono immediately slid backwards along the ground as if pushed by the orange explosion while Mikoto used magnetism to jump back as far as she could.

The experienced former elite's face had gone slightly pale.

"I-I can't believe you. Roasting a completely defenseless underling for a gag is an off the charts level of cruelty. …Can I call you mistress?"

"No, please don't!! Also, this wasn't my fault! The explosion came from the trunk. A detonation signal was sent an instant ahead of time!!" Mikoto shouted back indignantly.

At Mikoto's feet, the relatively strong driver who normally would have declared his victory over the hardships of life was lying in a daze like a girl who had been knocked over and licked all over by her undisciplined pet dog.

Just before the explosion, Mikoto had used iron sand to absorb and isolate the gasoline surrounding the driver's body, and had then used magnetism to operate his seatbelt buckle and pull him toward her.
 
Calculating gasoline explosions has the problem that it, under normal circumstances, isn't all that explosive and that I don't know and can't find the necessary parameters to calculate the shockwave velocity.


Still, a shock wave is at least slightly faster than sound and drops only to the speed of sound.

So this is at least transsonic.


I have heard that kamachi stated in the interview that the kamisato arc was to fill the interval between Othinus defeat and the fight against Aleister. I wonder if the final arc will begin now.
 
Oh, it isn't a gasoline explosion, that's just what Mio thinks at first, but Mikoto points out the explosion came from the trunk, the car had a bomb. But transonic sounds fine, Mio mentions that she and other White Alligator members trained with real gunfire, though she can't dodge Mikoto's Railgun.

I haven't seen that interview, but it makes sense. Kamisato's arc was a short one, only four volumes, and unless Kamachi throws a curveball only Aleister and Laura are left.
 
Railgun 93 is out. Scavenger comes back to help and Leader acts tsundere about it towards Mikoto. The irony... Doppelganger got Duplication as she can create tons of extra bodies, and our heroes are still screwed since they have no way to defeat a soul that can just make more bodies everytime they are destroyed.

I find kind of funny that my initial reaction to Kuriba stating she could create a way to remove souls out of bodies in two weeks of work was to think "It's Academy City, they probably could pull it off". The fact it was also the reaction of its citizens in NT17 to the VR story only makes it funnier.
 
It's too bad that the scientific method to destroy the soul will probably never be finished now, would have been good hax for the verse.

But there is still the possibility that some character pulls of some method of soul manipulation out of nowhere. Would be more or less the only possiblity to win this unless the Doppelganger is appeased somehow.


Other news from accel chapter 33. Seemingly accel can not just manipulate the earths rortation, but also the earths revolution (I suppose the one around the sun).

Too bad there isn't a percentage given together with that.


Another thing he mentions is that he converts the forces into the force he wants. Would that mean just putting them from one object into another, or could he for example transform heat into electricity as well? Eh, I suppose the latter would be stretching it for now.
 
That flashback was quite brutal, you can see one of the zombies stabbing its fingers in someone's eyes at one point. Also more proof Taowu is going the angel path, Accelerator got injured again and he complains about the weird stuff popping up in AC. If only he knew...
 
Since we don't seem to have one yet, I thought about maybe making a profile for Yakumi Hisako.

"Oh, and they can eat a lot more than just human flesh. They can eat wood. They can eat stone. They can eat rubber, metal, glass, and plastic. If you try to run off and hide, they'll just eat through the building, so be careful."

Would Wall level be fine for those?
 
A second question: Reading an original grimoir or a high quality copy does soul damage?


At that point, Yamisaka finally realized why it had been heavily modified into counterfeits or copies with so little purity. It was because the toxicity of the Original was too great. If they hadn't lowered or removed the purity, no ordinary person could even read it.

Yamisaka stared at the girl who was screaming, telling him to stop. It was unbelievable that this girl had actually managed to read all 103,000 grimoires, when reading just one page alone was enough to cause a huge migraine in his head.

That wasn't something that any human could do.

The girl who had achieved such an amazing feat was actually the most abnormal person. "...!!"

Each time he pulled the bow, the toxic grimoires started to flow into his mind page by page. Each page of poison started to flow in like milk mixing into coffee, fusing with Yamisaka's soul and corroding it.
~ Tamni OT 5 Chapter 4 part 15​
 
Wall level sounds fine to me. As for grimoires, I'm not sure. IIRC whenever grimoires are used or their effects are described thet are stated to just cause physical and mental damage (especially mental, there are Original Grimories that can shatter the mind of a regular human that just looks at them), so the soul part might be just a figure of speech.
 
Hmmm... yeah you are probably right there.

Possibly goes in the same direction as index stating in volume 1 that reading them would sully your soul.
 
I checked the novel scenes with grimoires that I could remember (mainly Etzali's battles as a GROUP member, Norse Myth SS and Necessarius SS), and I didn't find anything about souls. Damage focus of grimoires seems to be mind, then body.

Also, short summary of NT18 was released, and it looks like Tsuchi, Fran and Touma are raiding the Windowless Building.
 
Oh boy, it's really getting serious huh.

I wonder how exactly they plan on entering the windowsless building. I mean they don't have the special equipement thor used and lack the brute force of a failed magic god.

Awaki can also no take them due to IB.


...maybe Aleister just invites them in?
 
Either Tsuchi and Fran know how to enter using a magic trick, or Aleister lets them in on purpose. I'm curious as to what's Tsuchi's plan beyond using Touma as a meatshield, maybe mess with the machines supporting Aleister's body in the tube?
 
I can not imagine Touma being on board with messing with someones life-support system, though.


I also gonna say: I don't buy the Index III speculation that is currently ongoing.

Let's see if I stay right with that.
 
As usual, I'm clueless as to how Kamachi is going to develop this plot. Maybe we'll get to see Aiwass, it's been awhile.

I also don't buy the hype. After the way they handled the 10th anniversary the only way I'll believe a third season is coming is if they have an official trailer. I do have to admit, I didn't expect a videogame about the Virtual On crossover to come out, but then again I heard it was quite succesful (for a crossover novel) and that it was well received in Japan.
 
Read Railgun 94.

Seems like the Doppelganger needs some changes. Not souls, but muscle tissues huh.

We also know Yakumarus esper ability.
 
It makes sense, since Mikoto would need some Deus Ex Machina to defeat the Doppelganger if she was an unbound soul that can just remake its body. Still, those are some crazy artificial muscles considering she was lifting and throwing those giant chemical/fuel tanks around with strings of muscle thin enough to be almost invisible to the naked eye.
 
Would she have to throw it around on a thin string, though?

As I understand the muscles embed themself on the controlled material. So wouldn't it make it so that the tanks have muscles themself to basically jump towards their target?

The muscles on the tank are actually visible btw.


They are still amazing though, given that they embed themself on the object without building a thick layer.
 
That does make more sense. Still, they have an amazing replicating speed to extend as fast as far as they do. That reminds me that we should update her range with that given that in C93 she was controlling those from what looks like kilometers away.
 
Changed Doppelganger's page to reflect the reveal.

I'm kind of dissapointed that in the Accelerator manga Taowu appears to be about to go out without doing anything besides eating a few people with its tentacles.
 
The cover for NT18 was finally released.

In other news, the translation of the crossover with Virtual On is finished. I now understand why it got so great reviews and had to be reprinted for more copies, Kamachi could play with some stuff he wouldn't be able to get away with in the regular series. Shame we cannot do a page for Tangram, though. I wonder how the game will turn out.
 
The "all according to plan himself " is here shit must go down this time NT 11-17 was just waste of time , MG were bad idea and kamisato was just terrible character
 
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