Toaru Majutsu no Index General Discussion Thread 2

[DontTalk]

Still have to add Karma, but it is getting late for me as well so I will do that tomorrow if nobody else has done until then.

 

[ZERO7772]

Question : is there any point in adding the IT thing to Aiwass page ? he's 2-A because he is supposedly above the magic gods but the IT thing doesn't justify his tier

 

[LordAizenSama]

Could put it under the Feats section of the profile I guess. A really underused part of profiles

 

[ZERO7772]

yeah that will do i agree also we may add "At least " since he's meant to do what the magic gods couldn't imo we did the same with the magic gods when we scaled them to Othinus before giving them real rate although this is whatever thing right now it doesn't matter

 

[LazyHunter]

@DontTalk

It seems to be linked to Spiritual Tripping. I'll revise the page and add Karma.

 

[LazyHunter]

Finished revising Aleister. Do you guys think that we should mention the source of Aleister's quasi-immortality?

"Checkmate," she simply said. "You seem to be just barely staying conscious with the blood remaining in your veins, but as the blood flow to your brain stagnates, it will only take a few minutes for your thoughts to grow muddy and ultimately stop altogether. At this point, I doubt you can even refine your life force into magic power. Nor can you maintain a quasi-immortal state by distorting the circulation of your life force using the attraction of an extremely great being like Westcott did."

 

[DontTalk]

Is that the source of Aleisters usual immortal state, though?

The way that is said sounds to me like Lola saying that even if he would be using Westcotts technique it would not work, not necessarily that he is actually using it.

 

[LazyHunter]

I kind of assumed it's the explanation since she uses the word "maintain". We can leave it out since it's ambiguous.

 

[LazyHunter]

Are we all okay with Aleister and Aiwass' pages or is there something else to add/change?

 

[DontTalk]

I think Aiwass probably should have explosion manipulation/inducement, due to it being its main method of attack this volume, shouldn't he?

Aside from that I am fine with the pages.

 

[LazyHunter]

It's vague since Touma couldn't fully see them, but it does look like he used explosions most of the fight, except for when he pinned Touma to the wall and when it tried fighting Mina. I guess Explosion Manipulation it is.

Also, noticed this line from Mina to Crowley after Aiwass vanished while going over the fight:

"Too great an attraction can distort even the flow of one's life force. But that ends now. A bullet or even a fist can reach you now."

 

[DontTalk]

Hmmm... ok. With that line it seems that Aleister has the Westcott type Immortality while Aiwass is summoned.

I am not sure if it also is the one through which he survived the bullet tsuchimikado fired, given that Aiwass wasn't summoned. One can in any case mention that he has that, though.

 

[LazyHunter]

I'm also not sure, but mentioning it doesn't hurt anybody. I can't think of anything else to add.

 

[DontTalk]

Do I overlook it or did we forget to add the "life of failure"-curse to Aleisters page? :/

 

[ZERO7772]

btw i have question : if Alister can raise his power to the point where he can beat a magic god under certain conditions why doesn't that scale to his speed ? he have Peak human speed a magic god would blitz the shit outta him

Also if he could exist in the hidden world why that considered outtier ?

 

[DontTalk]

It's not that existing in the hidden world is an outlier it is more like that doesn't affect his usual state inside the universe.

In either case from what we have seen from him he is clearly not that fast in normal speed, given that he can for example be punched by touma.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well my point was on him when he stand on the same realm as magic gods , he's like some mid tier magicn when he fought Touma , he's also galss canon but somehow can defeat gods lol

Scalling this guy is too much pain in the ass

 

[ZERO7772]

Also this is the first time i know such tier exist for this type of characters

 

[LordAizenSama]

Iirc Immeasurable speed characters cannot move at that speed within the actual space time, or at least thats what I recall DarkLK saying.

Theres a few issues with the immeasurable speed rating itself. Because no verse I know treats immeasurable speed like what I described above, or else every character would need two sets of speed

It doesn't make much sense sometimes.

 

[ZERO7772]

But doesn't that make the entire immeasurable rating pointless then ?

 

[LordAizenSama]

I don't know. Probably. There seems to be multiple threads about it so maybe they sorted it out. But yeah I dont know what's happening with it

 

[ZERO7772]

Talking about his limit i really wonder how he planned to defeat the magic gods tho

 

[LazyHunter]

Just thought about it, should we move Crowley to the Joker tier on the verse page? We can remove the "likely" from Aiwass, and I'm also thinking of adding the nerfed True Gremlin to the top tier.

 

[ZERO7772]

Indeed Alister fit more as joker just like touma and kamistao due to the nature of his power

Yeah Aiwass is the top god tier now no need for likely

I am not sure about the nerfed gods tho , no need for two keys for the characters on the tiering list imo

 

[LazyHunter]

Additional keys are IMO needed if the character itself has two or more keys with enough power disparity to move in the in-universe ranking. We already list Thor, Mikoto and Othinus in two different tiers for this reason. We don't list True Gremlin with Zombie's spell because it doesn't move them from the God Tier, unlike with Aleister's nerfing spell.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well it's fine if you think it's necessary

Ah btw there no need "possibly" for gunha , he could match level 6 misaka head on

 

[LazyHunter]

He had an advantage there due to his ability to tank lightning and ridiculous endurance. I would wait to see him in another fight in the novels before removing the possibly.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well he did overpower her dark sea in her third form although you have a point , Seriously we need spin off for Gunah i would totally read that

on another note shoudn't update the A.A.A page ?

 

[LazyHunter]

Gunha spinoff could be great, though honestly, I think I'd enjoy more a magic-side spinoff at this point.

Are you referring to the Liquid Proof Railgun? Because that's a combination technique between Mikoto and Misaki that doesn't use the AAA, it uses Mikoto's regular coin Railgun.

 

[ZERO7772]

Yeah my bad i re-read the scene just now and you are right i got confused a little with A.A.A because she was wearing A.A.A at the time and i didn't quite understand how she raised her power due to my poor english

Anyway this can be done with the help of misaki but can this be added to her profile ? I dunno how we treat that

 

[LazyHunter]

No problem.

I think we agreed on adding it like we did with Index and Birdway's Little Gungnir.

 

[ZERO7772]

This theard is too long now we need new one

 

[DontTalk]

I thought of 4 things I would like to add to Aleisters page, if they are agreed upon.

-The curse that makes it so that those that do not die are cursed to a life where every decision they make leads to failure

-The fact that, with a bit prep which he can often get, he can make summoned beings possess people ("In fact, he actively used her as an assistant. Kamijou did not know exactly how it worked, but he seemed to sometimes use an incantation and a magic circle to summon something formless and send it inside his wife's body.")

-That he is capable of creating original grimoirs

-A stamina stat. I noticed Aleister lacked one. It would probably be "At least Human level" for now. Should we mentioned a possibly higher rating with his life support system? Or does that go too far into the direction of not standard equipement?

 

[LazyHunter]

Agreed on the first one. I'm not sure if the possession thing is something combat usable, his wife was a willing participant on his experiments and she was likely inside the magic circle, given that it is used to contain the summoned being like we saw earlier. I guess we could add it. Him writing Original Grimoires is already listed on his intelligence section.

IMO Stamina should be "At least above average" given all the spells he seems to throw around and how he shrugs off most injuries. The life support is part of the Windowless Building so it's not standard equipment.

I just realized I somehow removed the Blasting Rod from his equipment, we should fix that.

 

[DontTalk]

Didn't notice that the grimoir thing was already added.

I agree with above average.


In regards to summoning: That the target has to stand inside a circle in Aleisters case is possible. In any case it is a technique that requires preparation.

Though judging by Coronzon I don't have the impression that such beings have to ask nicely whether they may possess someone. (Though Coronzon is particulary powerful)

 

[DontTalk]

Is like this ok? If not fell free to improve it.

 

[LazyHunter]

It looks good to me.

Should we make a new thread like ZERO7772 suggested?

 

[DontTalk]

Sure, go ahead.

 

[LazyHunter]

New discussion thread is up, so this one can be closed.