Tier High 6-A The Battle of the Beast Tournament (2023): Complete Lucifero vs MOB PSYCHO 100 (Shigeo Kageyama)

[Epiccheev]

The very distinction between AP and LS exists because we use different groups of muscles for striking and lifting.
Durability is an entirely different matter and would work on all groups of bones and muscles in a similar proportion to our own. Overpowering LS doesn't mean you can magically harm dura way above it's paygrade.( unless you circumvent it with choking or specific locks, wich isn't what's happening here.)

 

[CloverDragon03]

That's... what gravity does (besides doesn't the P stand for Petaton? Crushing a character in the exatons with it is eh...)

How did I not realize this before wtf

Anyways, petaton lifting strength is not the same as petaton AP, hence why a character with High 6-A AP doesn't automatically have Class P lifting strength (see most X792 Fairy Tail characters, as an example)

 

[Recon1511]

So, Lucifero is a character with EE and the only way to actually to actually kill him is having some very especific NPI/holy manipulation

Why was he allowed?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I mean, his AP pretty low tho
Bet Steven could've befriended him

 

[Epiccheev]

So, Lucifero is a character with EE and the only way to actually to actually kill him is having some very especific NPI/holy manipulation

And passive Class P gravity crush that immobilizes and then apparently negates dura from people more than 10x stronger

 

[Recon1511]

And passive Class P gravity crush that immobilizes and then apparently negates dura from people more than 10x stronger

In any case I reckon Mob can create a barrier around himself, and while the barrier would still be pushed down it wouldn't be destroyed and Mob's body would be intact. But that doesn't matter anyway because this guy is basically unkillable if you aren't a BC character with the specific hax to put him down

 

[Edutyn]

In any case I reckon Mob can create a barrier around himself, and while the barrier would still be pushed down it wouldn't be destroyed and Mob's body would be intact. But that doesn't matter anyway because this guy is basically unkillable if you aren't a BC character with the specific hax to put him down

In that case, let's buy BC's $500 DLC

 

[Recon1511]

Let's stop here for a moment.

Does any of the participants of the tournament at the very least have a way to counter Lucifero's Devil Heart?

Mob is literally the most "haxxed" character here and he is getting stomped

 

[Epiccheev]

I think Link did. Maybe Steven through sealing?

 

[Recon1511]

I think Link did. Maybe Steven through sealing?

Well Link got thrashed by Lucifero and the only available wincons are death or incap

 

[SuperStar]

I think Link did. Maybe Steven through sealing?

Link did, but he couldn't resist the Gravity, he was only Class T.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Pretty sure you can't actually use superior LS to break/crush opponents, only restrain movement and dura negate to a certain extent if you use it for choking.
Otherwise a 9-B with class 25 LS could crush a 3-A with class 5 LS to death.

The case with gravity should be different imo. This logic should only apply to physical LS

 

[Recon1511]

The case with gravity should be different imo. This logic should only apply to physical LS

I mean it's the same for TK.

Character X is 8-B and has Class T LS but can't TK crush Character Y who is 6-A and has Class 5 LS

 

[RoTt35]

Does any of the participants of the tournament at the very least have a way to counter Lucifero's Devil Heart?

Even the character that I originally wanted to choose but was rejected for her hax would be stomped by Lucifero

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Why was he allowed?

 

[CloverDragon03]

So, Lucifero is a character with EE and the only way to actually to actually kill him is having some very especific NPI/holy manipulation

Why was he allowed?

He's by far the weakest character in the tournament. He's not even 200 petatons in a tournament of characters well into the exaton range

 

[Arnoldstone18]

it's the same for TK.

Telekinesis isn’t always similar to gravity

Sometimes it scales to the physical, sometimes it causes mental stress or some bs like that.

Lucifero is merely manipulating gravity not the person so the LS crush logic doesn’t apply to Lucifero. If the gravity acting on Mob is too much for Mob’s body to support then he gets crushed by his own weight.

 

[Recon1511]

He's by far the weakest character in the tournament. He's not even 200 petatons in a tournament of characters well into the exaton range

That literally doesn't matter when the character has EE, Dura Neg and the only way to kill him is having very specific hax to destroy his heart

 

[SuperStar]

I should've used Ganon smh

 

[CloverDragon03]

That literally doesn't matter when the character has EE, Dura Neg and the only way to kill him is having very specific hax to destroy his heart

I mean hey I asked if people were okay with it. He can be defeated with incap, that's how he was defeated in Black Clover to begin with.

Frankly I'm surprised no one was against his inclusion but here we are

 

[Epiccheev]

The case with gravity should be different imo. This logic should only apply to physical LS

I actually agree. But it wouldn't really negate dura by breaking bones or crushing muscle, but rather it would make it hard for blood to properly flow and put a heavy strain on the heart followed by internal hemorrhage due to capillary rupturing succeeded by organ failure. ( i also don't think higher LS alone should be able to resist it, but the wiki does and Mashle lost his resistance to it due to this.)

 

[Epiccheev]

btw, how does his EE black hole work? Is it like a projectile that can be dodged, a stationary black hole he creates and then sucks people in or something he just spawns on people?

 

[CloverDragon03]

btw, how does his EE black hole work? Is it like a projectile that can be dodged, a stationary black hole he creates and then sucks people in or something he just spawns on people?

It's a projectile

 

[Epiccheev]

Hmm...then Luffy might have a chance in outlasting if his Class P LS is high enough

 

[CloverDragon03]

Hmm...then Luffy might have a chance in outlasting if his Class P LS is high enough

Bro already gave up on Mob, damn

Lucifero's gravity is about 1.41x stronger than Luffy's LS, so he definitely would have a better shot

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I actually agree. But it wouldn't really negate dura by breaking bones or crushing muscle, but rather it would make it hard for blood to properly flow and put a heavy strain on the heart followed by internal hemorrhage due to capillary rupturing succeeded by organ failure. ( i also don't think higher LS alone should be able to resist it, but the wiki does and Mashle lost his resistance to it due to this.)

Yes, bones won’t be broken.

Higher LS negates increased gravity cuz the body can support its own weight. There’s probably no really a thing called resistance to gravity manipulation unless it’s through one weird way (maybe like the crystal gems from Steven universe but that’s probably just unconventional)

Anyway my point is that I agree that one has to be comparable in AP to crush bones and all that with LS. However, by changing gravity itself, Lucifero doesn’t need to be under any stress of applying force. Mob’s body is forced to withstand the gravity boosting his own body weight and if he isn’t strong enough LS wise, his own body will collapse on itself. The joints will fall apart and the skeleton won’t hold him up. Mob gets crushed by his own body weight

if Lucifero used his bare hands instead then he needs to be comparable to Mob to rip him apart.

 

[Lynieryz]

I'm totally confused... any mob attack is thought based so DKP is irrelevant and any attack would reduce Luci to a mere heart that can't do anything and mob has an entire planet of energy to keep crushing Luci and it's in character to ???% keep attacking non stop how does luci win?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm totally confused... any mob attack is thought based so DKP is irrelevant and any attack would reduce Luci to a mere heart that can't do anything and mob has an entire planet of energy to keep crushing Luci and it's in character to ???% keep attacking non stop how does luci win?

He can teleport to evade Mob's attacks and he can regenerate as long as his heart is intact

 

[Recon1511]

TK isnt a projectile that can be dodged or teleported away from

 

[CloverDragon03]

TK isnt a projectile that can be dodged or teleported away from

Not every attack is TK

 

[Recon1511]

Not every attack is TK

True but its what he always starts with

 

[Planck69]

???% opens with either telekinetically crushing or turning opponents to puree, or a city-wide psychic blast that's thought-based and can just continue doing so with ease.

Not to mention the fact that he can replicate a myriad of powers from memory if need be should he see his opponent continue to come back (from mind control to clones to elemental attacks and so on) and use them against Lucifero.

That said, Lucifero apparently has black holes that erase targets and ???%'s gonna have a hard time dealing with that. And his gravity manipulation will be a pain but it doesn't really stop ???% from continuing to think and blast.

Not sure atm.

 

[Epiccheev]

Tbh, continuing to rip someone to pieces for 24 hours straight in character without prior knowledge is some straight up goblin behaviour

 

[Planck69]

Also, what exactly is Lucifero's LS? I see there's a calc on the page for Asta but it's less than 1.5x ???%'s LS.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also, what exactly is Lucifero's LS? I see there's a calc on the page for Asta but it's less than 1.5x ???%'s LS.

He scales far above Asta's calc

1.6e+16 kg vs. 1.382e+15 kg

 

[Planck69]

He scales far above Asta's calc

1.6e+16 kg vs. 1.382e+15 kg

Uh Clover, Mob's Class P feat is done by a 100% Mob on par with 10% Toichiro. This is done just by him powering up to that state with no effort.

???% is capable of effortlessly one-shotting people on par with 100% Courage Mob, who's inferior to but in the same ballpark as 100% Toichiro. So ???% >> 10 times 1.382e+15 kg, since lifting strength and psychic power scale directly.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Uh Clover, Mob's Class P feat is done by a 100% Mob on par with 10% Toichiro. This is done just by him powering up to that state with no effort.

???% is capable of effortlessly one-shotting people on par with 100% Courage Mob, who's inferior to but in the same ballpark as 100% Toichiro. So ???% >> 10 times 1.382e+15 kg, since lifting strength and psychic power scale directly.

Ah damn, didn't know that. So it's >> 1.6e+16 kg vs. >> 1.382e+16 kg basically

Well I think Lucifero's gravity would then restrict Mob's movement but probably wouldn't pin him down. May slow him down a bit at least. He still has the ability to gravity crush things in front of him, which he used to crush Nacht's arm here. That said, since psychic powers are thought-based, this might not do too much.

Given this LS change, it's a bit more up in the air. I'd probably still give it to Lucifero, as teleportation to evade Mob's attacks, devil heart Invulnerability, and Gravity Singularity EE are all very solid things in his favor. That said, it'd probably be close

 

[Planck69]

A teleport spammer exists in MP100 and Base Mob was not only confident in beating him but said teleporter decided to nope tf out rather than face him. Not to mention that ???% himself could recall that incident and replicate the teleportation if need be.

Gravity isn't as much of an issue seeing as ???% can just mitigate it via using gravity manipulation based on memory copying as well, given time (it could even create pseudo-black holes but none with EE properties like in BC unfortunately). The EE projectiles can be dodged thankfully or intercepted with objects around him.

Devil Heart Invulnerability is gonna be an issue but eventually ???% will just replicate and use an incapacitating ability like mind manipulation to deal with him.

Very close but personally, I'd give it to Mob.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think it's good that we have these two posts, because I think they pretty clearly have the strengths and weaknesses of each character laid out.

So far that's 1 vote for Lucifero and 1 vote for Mob

 

[Edutyn]

I vote for Mob, based on Planck's reasons