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Tier 9-B Enter the Octagon Tournament 2022: Chris Jericho vs Deathstroke (The Finale)

Anyone else willing to fix Jericho's IR for me?

The website is blocked on my laptop, so someone else needs to do it for me.
 
Pikaman said:
So what’s the current situation?
Click to expand...
SamanPatou said:
Death matches were no one really dies and its meant to be a catchy name,
Speak to any soldier or martial art teacher and they'll tell you that no martial art really prepares you for an armed opponent you don't have anything with you to match, and wrestlers fight with makeshift objects, not real weapons, which, btw, this Slade seems to be able of using pretty damn well, let alone the fact Jericho's got nothing and no were to flee.


It's not 100% realistic, but it's pretty much close to reality, it's not like Dragon Ball or else, they are still treated in-verse as athletes.
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This.
 
So...
Kna.gif
 
I’m... not quite sure

there’s been a heavy amount of replies, but we haven’t discussed much of note, most of the thread has been debunking common misconceptions and dealing with accusations of stomps, the rep of one of the finalists unfollowed the thread...

I think it’s probably best we begin to make our own individual conclusions on the match, cast our votes, and debate on the points we make in said conclusions to try and sway the vote in the desired direction of whatever side any one of us may be on.
 
Aight, I've read this thread and I love the concept of the match, and kudos to the match creator for making an incisive, evocative post with a good summary of the fighter's abilities.

So, in an analysis proper, first off I must comment that you guys are really underestimating how effective weapons are. Weapons are massive force equalizers - I can safely say that someone with 1/5th of someone's AP can usually still hold a very solid advantage when weaponized, particularly with a piercing or bladed weapon, as they focus that much AP on a much smaller area of contact. Heck, I've seen plenty of times in armed martial arts, particularly in HEMA, in which masters of unarmed forms of grappling found themselves completely out of their element, because really innefficient swings with the hand against a grappler do not work with a bare fist, but with a knife, you still inflict horridly deep and injurious wounds.

Now, I'm not saying that Jericho is a regular grappler, fighters in WWE are really skilled and they are used to handling weapons, and Jericho is a high-end fighter. He has the skills necessary to handle weapons, and I do believe he has a significant skill advantage over Deathstroke, something he will sorely need, as WWE, even with their use of weapons, is not to the degree and kind of weaponry Deathstroke uses. Jericho has the spatial awareness of length and range, but most weapons in WWE are blunt, or with very dull edges, the easiest for an unarmed fighter.

So, that being used, Jericho is the superior grappler, and overall in unarmed. Deathstroke holds the likely edge in striking and environmental usage, and from the feats, they should be on-par in, say, spatiokinectic awareness. Jericho has some awareness in fighting against weaponry, albeit he is more used to blunt weapons. Jericho has a vastly superir LS and considerable edge in grappling, which guarantees that any position he puts Deathstroke in, Deathstroke won't get out - but weapons, particularly knives are deadly against grapplers, so Jericho needs to be very careful on what hold to put Deathstroke in, and disarming people is something far easier said than done, particularly Deathstroke, who is extremely skilled in both unarmed and armed combat. Deathstroke has the edge advantage, which he should exploit, as that is just the biggest thing about weapons and far more important than people initially realize. As long as Deathstroke backs away and slashes, there is actually little that Jericho can do.

Onto the powers, I'm assuming it is the second key of Deathstroke. His enhanced senses serve him well if Jericho blinds him, but wouldn't negate it. I don't know how much Jericho would use fireballs and how useful it would be. Both have Pain Tolerance, and while I want to say that Deathstroke's greater, but Jericho is the only one who has feats in that, so eh. Jericho has power mimicry of skills, but it doesn't seem to be high level from what I know of WWE, but it is useful. Deathstroke's regeneration is exceedingly useful here too. Jericho's instinctive reactions is a further boost to his martial arts.

My veredict is that Deathstroke has the likely win. I don't think Jericho has the skillset to combat weaponry wielded to Deathstroke's level, nor the necessary durability to accurately block the weapons. It is far from a certain fight, Jericho can put Deathstroke on some pretty unforgiving holds, but most grappling holds do not really work against a skilled opponent that is armed with a blade, or at least do not work quickly enough to brutalize the foe.
 
EliminatorVenom said:
Aight, I've read this thread and I love the concept of the match, and kudos to the match creator for making an incisive, evocative post with a good summary of the fighter's abilities.

So, in an analysis proper, first off I must comment that you guys are really underestimating how effective weapons are. Weapons are massive force equalizers - I can safely say that someone with 1/5th of someone's AP can usually still hold a very solid advantage when weaponized, particularly with a piercing or bladed weapon, as they focus that much AP on a much smaller area of contact. Heck, I've seen plenty of times in armed martial arts, particularly in HEMA, in which masters of unarmed forms of grappling found themselves completely out of their element, because really innefficient swings with the hand against a grappler do not work with a bare fist, but with a knife, you still inflict horridly deep and injurious wounds.

Now, I'm not saying that Jericho is a regular grappler, fighters in WWE are really skilled and they are used to handling weapons, and Jericho is a high-end fighter. He has the skills necessary to handle weapons, and I do believe he has a significant skill advantage over Deathstroke, something he will sorely need, as WWE, even with their use of weapons, is not to the degree and kind of weaponry Deathstroke uses. Jericho has the spatial awareness of length and range, but most weapons in WWE are blunt, or with very dull edges, the easiest for an unarmed fighter.

So, that being used, Jericho is the superior grappler, and overall in unarmed. Deathstroke holds the likely edge in striking and environmental usage, and from the feats, they should be on-par in, say, spatiokinectic awareness. Jericho has some awareness in fighting against weaponry, albeit he is more used to blunt weapons. Jericho has a vastly superir LS and considerable edge in grappling, which guarantees that any position he puts Deathstroke in, Deathstroke won't get out - but weapons, particularly knives are deadly against grapplers, so Jericho needs to be very careful on what hold to put Deathstroke in, and disarming people is something far easier said than done, particularly Deathstroke, who is extremely skilled in both unarmed and armed combat. Deathstroke has the edge advantage, which he should exploit, as that is just the biggest thing about weapons and far more important than people initially realize. As long as Deathstroke backs away and slashes, there is actually little that Jericho can do.

Onto the powers, I'm assuming it is the second key of Deathstroke. His enhanced senses serve him well if Jericho blinds him, but wouldn't negate it. I don't know how much Jericho would use fireballs and how useful it would be. Both have Pain Tolerance, and while I want to say that Deathstroke's greater, but Jericho is the only one who has feats in that, so eh. Jericho has power mimicry of skills, but it doesn't seem to be high level from what I know of WWE, but it is useful. Deathstroke's regeneration is exceedingly useful here too. Jericho's instinctive reactions is a further boost to his martial arts.

My veredict is that Deathstroke has the likely win. I don't think Jericho has the skillset to combat weaponry wielded to Deathstroke's level, nor the necessary durability to accurately block the weapons. It is far from a certain fight, Jericho can put Deathstroke on some pretty unforgiving holds, but most grappling holds do not really work against a skilled opponent that is armed with a blade, or at least do not work quickly enough to brutalize the foe.
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Not reading everything here, but everyone Jericho has defeated prior to this has had weapons similar to Deathstroke, so your whole point on weapons FRA here are false.
 
EliminatorVenom said:
Onto the powers, I'm assuming it is the second key of Deathstroke. His enhanced senses serve him well if Jericho blinds him, but wouldn't negate it. I don't know how much Jericho would use fireballs and how useful it would be. Both have Pain Tolerance, and while I want to say that Deathstroke's greater, but Jericho is the only one who has feats in that, so eh. Jericho has power mimicry of skills, but it doesn't seem to be high level from what I know of WWE, but it is useful. Deathstroke's regeneration is exceedingly useful here too. Jericho's instinctive reactions is a further boost to his martial arts
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure this is first key Deathstroke, and Jericho’s profile is kinda weirdly formatted in P&A but long story short he doesn’t have fireballs here that’s exclusive to his second key.

that’s important mainly because Deathstroke doesn’t get regen, glancing at the extras that his second key provides
 
Also, Deathstrokes weapons are only there for him for as long as he can keep them, Jericho’S advantages in skill and LS give him ample opportunity to disarm Slade
 
Seriously, we have discussed this on three different threads, Tsukasa being a prime example.

For someone as skilled as Jericho, it's going to be hard to hit him here.

1. Jericho is more skilled
2. Jericho has dealt with being at a range disadvantage numerous times in canon
3. Jericho has IR that works offensively and defensively

Kohaku, Tsukasa, and Licorne all had weapons. Jericho beat all three of them, despite this.

Yet Jericho ends up losing here because of the exact same reason that's been debunked numerous times???
 
Don't get me wrong, Slade's weapons are a very, very good thing to have here, but like I said above, Jericho has many ways around this.

It's going to be hard to hit him here, especially with the skill and IR advantages Jericho has here, and the fact that Jericho can disarm Slade here.
 
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RandomGuy2345 said:
Kohaku, Tsukasa, and Licorne all had weapons. Jericho beat all three of them, despite this.

Yet Jericho ends up losing here because of the exact same reason that's been debunked numerous times???
Click to expand...
you can win against characters with weapons if they're less skilled, the only notable one is Tsukasa and using that as an example seems pretty baseless if you ask me, saying "X character can Defeat Y character because" doesn't work here since Stroke is skilled enough with a blade to match his partner Billy Wintergreen in a sword-fight and both were equal in skill and could fight against martial artist masters (Yao Fei Gulong) and Slade rained superior in that regard.
 
Slade's first key will be used here, as his second key is Wall+ instead of just Wall, so Slade will not have Regen or Enhanced Senses (which would've been extremely helpful for Slade here).
 
Bruhtelho said:
you can win against characters with weapons if they're less skilled, the only notable one is Tsukasa and using that as an example seems pretty baseless if you ask me, saying "X character can Defeat Y character because" doesn't work here since Stroke is skilled enough with a blade to match his partner Billy Wintergreen in a sword-fight and both were equal in skill and could fight against martial artist masters (Yao Fei Gulong) and Slade rained superior in that regard.
Click to expand...
The point is that “they have weapons so Jericho stands little chance” is a poor argument, not that vs debating is some kind of Rock Paper Scissors type scenario where beating one character increases your chances against another
 
Bruhtelho said:
you can win against characters with weapons if they're less skilled, the only notable one is Tsukasa and using that as an example seems pretty baseless if you ask me, saying "X character can Defeat Y character because" doesn't work here since Stroke is skilled enough with a blade to match his partner Billy Wintergreen in a sword-fight and both were equal in skill and could fight against martial artist masters (Yao Fei Gulong) and Slade rained superior in that regard.
Click to expand...
We've already stated that Jericho holds the skill edge here.

It was agreed upon that Deathstroke and Balor were roughly even in skill, and Jericho holds a solid skill edge over Balor.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
1. Jericho is more skilled
2. Jericho has dealt with being at a range disadvantage numerous times in canon
3. Jericho has IR that works offensively and defensively
Click to expand...
not insanely more skilled then Slade to the point where he is untouchable as you say, this isnt like Licorne VS Jericho where the Skill Gap is gigantic, its very small here almost negligible as Slade can fight against incredibly unpredictable fighting styles and insane amounts of training

a range disadvantage is still a disadvantage, Slade isn't gonna let himself get disarmed easily, he'll make sure keep his blade secured and not let it just get ripped out of his hands and even if he does, he can make up for it with the surprise combat blade in his boot or could just throw daggers at Jericho to set him up for something bad

it'll be useful but not make him untouchable, Slade can use his intelligence and quick thinking to make up for his good dodging such as just planning out where Jericho well dodge and quickly attacking there leaving no time to Jericho to dodge
 
Bruhtelho said:
not insanely more skilled then Slade to the point where he is untouchable as you say, this isnt like Licorne VS Jericho where the Skill Gap is gigantic, its very small here almost negligible as Slade can fight against incredibly unpredictable fighting styles and insane amounts of training
Click to expand...
🤦‍♂️The skill gap is not "very small" or "almost negligible." That was Balor vs Deathstroke. Like I said numerous times already, Jericho has a solid skill edge over Balor, and it was agreed upon that Balor and Deathstroke were roughly even in skill, so Jericho has a solid skill edge here. It's not a gigantic gap in skill, but it's a solid one.

Bruhtelho said:
a range disadvantage is still a disadvantage, Slade isn't gonna let himself get disarmed easily, he'll make sure keep his blade secured and not let it just get ripped out of his hands and even if he does, he can make up for it with the surprise combat blade in his boot or could just throw daggers at Jericho to set him up for something bad
Click to expand...
And like I said countless times already, Jericho has fought with a range disadvantage numerous times in his verse. His skill gap, along with IR (which works offensively and defensively) will work wonders here for Jericho. Jericho can legit counter Slade's moves into a Codebreaker, ending the fight right then and there, and since Jericho realizes that the person he's facing has weapons that'll do a number on him if connected, Jericho will do his absolute best to pick his spots carefully and end the fight as quick as possible. Jericho is much more likely to use the Codebreaker here due to the range disadvantage and what kind of weapons Slade has here.

Bruhtelho said:
it'll be useful but not make him untouchable, Slade can use his intelligence and quick thinking to make up for his good dodging such as just planning out where Jericho well dodge and quickly attacking there leaving no time to Jericho to dodge
Click to expand...
Also, let's not act like Jericho is extremely clever as well. He's a very good strategist in his own right. Once he realizes that he's at a range disadvantage, he'll know to pick his spots carefully, and then when he finds a small opening, it's GG from there, because once the two get up close and personal, Jericho is taking this. No doubt in my mind.
 
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