Tier 5-C The Destroyer of the Moon Tournament: Garou vs Terrarian (Post-Plantera)

[Phoenks]

vampire knives

Will take ages to kill Garou. They don't do that much damage or absorb much health. And if he doesn't negate regen with debuffs first, Garou will regen.

Lightning Aura Staff

Will also realistically take a while to kill Garou. Terrarian doesn't have anything that's an instant dura-negate victory like Garou does.

 

[azontr]

I'm not postulating that either of these options will give Terrarian an instant win, nor have I ever. My argument is that this, along with debuffs and ranged spam, will allow Terrarian to get a win, not that he will start off the fight and instantly win because of funny dura neg ability. It's always been about versatility advantage.

 

[Phoenks]

I really don't think his versality takes this to a Terrarian victory. Do you really think Terrarian makes a perfect plan with his equipment every time?

Like, he could easily use guns, magic, or bows that are higher in damage output but don't have the debuffs you're betting on, and end up getting killed because of it.

 

[azontr]

That's the thing with video game characters that is confusing me, because I have heard in the past that we assume that the (insert character) will take the most optimal move since they have no real IC move, as everything is up to player decision in gameplay, but people are now saying that isn't the case.

I've been arguing on the assumption that we follow that the Terrarian will use the optimal strategy since he has no IC move, as I assumed that is how we treated it, but if it's not he we treat it, then I would agree that the battle really could go either way.

 

[Nierre]

I think it would make sense for the most optimal move, especially if they have no IC moves, since it's all based on the player. It doesn't really make any sense to have matches with those type of characters if it's assumed that they'll (for example) go in close range, when they clearly have solid long ranged options.

 

[azontr]

I'll leave it up to what people think.

If they believe it makes sense that the Terrarian will use their strongest, most optimal moves and equipment, vote Terrarian. If they don't, and instead believe the fight is up in the air, vote incon, or vote Garou.

 

[Recon1511]

So wait, even if the bullets land on Garou they don't have actual one shot potential and thus will give him enough time to use his stat amps to just start outspeeding them which in turn will give him enough time to trigger his AD and RE?

Could have started from there lol, voting Garou.

 

[Phoenks]

So wait, even if the bullets land on Garou they don't have actual one shot potential and thus will give him enough time to use his stat amps to just start outspeeding them which in turn will give him enough time to trigger his AD and RE?

Could have started from there lol, voting Garou.

This is a fair statement yeah. They take a while to actually kill Garou.

 

[Nierre]

If that's the case then I'll remove my vote and unfollow this. I was planning on unfollowing earlier but I forgor

 

[azontr]

I think I'll change my vote to incon. I may have been a bit to biased towards the Terrarian cause I'm a goonlord, the fight can honestly go either way, though I don't think Garou's RE is a cop out to Terrarian's debuffs.

So uh for lack of a better option I'll ride with incon for now.

 

[Phoenks]

That would make the votes

2-4-4

 

[Recon1511]

This is a fair statement yeah. They take a while to actually kill Garou.

I thought they were going to straight up one shot Garou or something

I conceded that the Terrarian would likely use range since the battle starts 30 meters apart and all but other than that without him having prior knowledge on Garou, how would he "pick the best win condition" and formulate a perfect combo of abilities to counter him completely before he starts evolving?

 

[azontr]

I'm honestly gonna make a QnA thread on that picking the optimal win condition shit. Gimme a sec.

 

[Recon1511]

Also how does Garou not have poison resistance on his profile wtf 99% sure the arrows of that B class Hero had poison on them or something

 

[azontr]

Made the QnA. Hopefully the answer will clear things up for this thread.

 

[Phoenks]

Also how does Garou not have poison resistance on his profile wtf 99% sure the arrows of that B class Hero had poison on them or something

for some reason its in pain tolerance rather than being listed as a resistance, weird.

 

[Recon1511]

Made the QnA. Hopefully the answer will clear things up for this thread.

Let's see what they say, but tbh IC characters having meta knowledge of sorts about their opponents to just come up with perfect countermeasures without actual prior knowledge is kinda cringe

 

[azontr]

So uh, @DarkDragonMedeus answered my question, and here's really what I got from it.

The strategies that a character with no IC moves or decisions depends mostly on their intelligence. We obviously don't assume that they have some form of precognition or information analysis that allows them to suddenly know the best possible moves they can make, but, based on their intellect, we can form a general inference on their standard stratagem in a fight. For example; we'd assume that a character like Minecraft Steve/Alex, based on their Gifted level intellect, would prioritize basic self-defense and resort to the items that they know have the most "utility" among their toolkit, due to their intelligence reflecting that they can make such a basic choice, instead of assuming they will instantly form the greatest plan evahhhhh.

How exactly we would judge this for a Genius level character like Terrarian I do not know, I believe that's up for discussion.

 

[DemonicDude]

Results:
Garou (Post-Sage):
Terrarian (Post-Plantera): 6 (ikki, Aachintiya31, Nierre, Paychomaster, Glace, Lynierz)
Incon: 5 (phoenks, DD, Recon, Adem, azontr)

 

[Phoenks]

Results:
Garou (Post-Sage):
Terrarian (Post-Plantera): 6 (ikki, Aachintiya31, Nierre, Paychomaster, Glace, Lynierz)
Incon: 5 (phoenks, DD, Recon, Adem, azontr)

Nierre removed his vote for Terrarian. Recon is voting for Garou. Ziller also seems to be voting Garou.

 

[azontr]

So uh, @DarkDragonMedeus answered my question, and here's really what I got from it.

The strategies that a character with no IC moves or decisions depends mostly on their intelligence. We obviously don't assume that they have some form of precognition or information analysis that allows them to suddenly know the best possible moves they can make, but, based on their intellect, we can form a general inference on their standard stratagem in a fight. For example; we'd assume that a character like Minecraft Steve/Alex, based on their Gifted level intellect, would prioritize basic self-defense and resort to the items that they know have the most "utility" among their toolkit, due to their intelligence reflecting that they can make such a basic choice, instead of assuming they will instantly form the greatest plan evahhhhh.

How exactly we would judge this for a Genius level character like Terrarian I do not know, I believe that's up for discussion.

Do we all agree with this assessment?

 

[Phoenks]

Do we all agree with this assessment?

I agree that it seems even more inconclusive than I thought because wtf is that supposed to mean in Terrarian's case. There's different builds. It's not like MC where there's only one way the character is built.

 

[azontr]

I mean we assume Terrarian has every item in the game at their disposal in End-Game, right? They pretty much have every build.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Incon FRA, Garou is by a long shot the most unique character the Terrarian will have faced, but Ranger stuff absolutely will incon, so that's probably what will be chosen especially due to Garou seeming pure melee

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean we assume Terrarian has every item in the game at their disposal in End-Game, right? They pretty much have every build.

Yeah, sans post-moon lord stuff tho

 

[azontr]

Yeah, sans post-moon lord stuff tho

Why is post-moon lord stuff excluded lol.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why is post-moon lord stuff excluded lol.

High 5-A.

 

[azontr]

Ah.

I'm a brainlet. Forgor this was Post-Plantera.

 

[Recon1511]

To me it seems kinda incon but it's more plausible Garou wins because his wincon is much less intricate than the Terrarian's and that's why I vote for him.

Like for the Terrarian to win he needs to figure out a perfect combo to kill an opponent that is using stat amps to outspeed his Danmaku, has planetary shockwaves with a dura neg attack that can one shot him and on top of that is speeding up even more thanks to his AD and RE and will in a very small timeframe be able to blitz him.

 

[azontr]

I mean the combo required for Terrarian to win isn't that complicated that he'd need supergenius level intellect to start off with it. Just start with debuffs and chlorophyte and ichor bullets. Hell, I've done debuff and homing spam in-game. If I can figure it out I'm sure the Terrarian can.

 

[Rikimarox2]

IDK wtf that means with The Terrarian IC, since he has way too many builds, so...

Changing my vote to Incon.

 

[azontr]

Also, are we sure that the Terrarian's other debuffs won't do some good in helping him win?

He has bullets capable of inflicting confusion, which will reverse Garou's sense of direction, which noticeably ****** him up in his fight with Saitama.

 

[DaReaperMan]

To me it seems kinda incon but it's more plausible Garou wins because his wincon is much less intricate than the Terrarian's and that's why I vote for him.

Like for the Terrarian to win he needs to figure out a perfect combo to kill an opponent that is using stat amps to outspeed his Danmaku, has planetary shockwaves with a dura neg attack that can one shot him and on top of that is speeding up even more thanks to his AD and RE and will in a very small timeframe be able to blitz him.

Good thing Stat amping is very easy to do and winning is just Ranger stuff, cause by this point the Daedalus Stormbow sucks so bows won't be used

Melee males 0 sense.

Mage is plausible, and mostly why I think this is incon

And summoner just sucks donkey dick even modded so...

 

[Rikimarox2]

And summoner just sucks donkey dick even modded so...

Can vouch for that. The build is turbo shit even with mods, which is honestly impressive.

Now any other build modded, however...

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can vouch for that. The build is turbo shit even with mods, which is honestly impressive.

Now any other build modded, however...

I've done a malice mode summoner. I am a *********

 

[azontr]

Summoner is gay af anyway so I wouldn't make a build for it even if it didn't suck poopoo pee pee butt

 

[Epiccheev]

incon fra

 

[Recon1511]

Whatever gets this to grace I guess, voting incon

 

[azontr]

W

 

[DemonicDude]

Terrarian (Post-Plantera): 4 (Aachintiya31, Paychomaster, Glace, Lynierz, Zilla)
Incock: 8 (phoenks, DD, Adem, Recon, Epic, Azontr, Rikki, DaReaper)