His "hidden power" is just being angry enough to use his actual strength.
Mastered SSJ (Grade 4) for manga is still 50x (equal to Grade 1, at best it's only slightly higher). The form's main emphasis is on energy efficiency and stamina rather than pure power. Not much of a reason to assume its stronger than even Grade 1.
I think that's a combo of skill and lower stamina drain, as well as less strain on the body.
I wouldn't use that to claim MSS1 is stronger. The act of transforming already takes a lot of energy. Vegeta's MSS1 should make it near-effortless to enter (so minimal drain) and he'd maintain max power for longer. So basically Cabba would already be considerably drained from transforming while Vegeta would be at near-peak stamina/power.
All in favor?
Yeah, this seems good. I assume another CRT for Super Saiyan 3 is coming?
SSJ Vegeta no-sold SSJ Cabba's punch, I believe it's a nice example.
You're claming SSJ has Golden Freeza levels of stamina drain when this has never been the case before the grades
What would SSJ3 get?
Ahhh, something, something, Post-God Super Saiyan can be pushed further than even Super Saiyan 3.
Ah yes, 2014, where Beerus was 1.8x stronger than God Goku, and Whis was barely twice as strong as Goku.
BoG Movie Goku would crush Beerus if he busts out the Kaioken
These are from BoG movie era chief, and are literally contradicted by Super itself having Goku spam SSJ2 on every midcard fight.
SS Vegeta >= SSJ Trunks, who Cell was scared off and implied he couldn't beat on his own.
Rewatching the fight, Cabba is explicitly stated to overpower Vegeta at first (even shown as such). The entire time Cabba is going crazy with endless attacks and blasts with Vegeta only no-selling his punch after being on the defensive for a while. So yeah, this is a case of Vegeta's superior stamina against Cabba's dwindling stamina. He only no-sold that punch because Cabba exhausted his power in a fit of rage.
And yeah this is true as well. Not only did Cabba expend a ridiculous amount of power on his fit of rage before Vegeta could no-sell his punch but he was already badly injured before transforming, meaning he was nowhere near full power when he transformed.
I love two contradicting arguments being used for the same purpose, feels like I don't even need to do anything to debunk them. "Exhausted his power" is your headcanon
Both can't be true. Either he was initially at full power and then dropped, or he never was. The latter implies Cabba's SSJ is stronger of all things.
Rage serves as a way for characters (specifically saiyans) to exhibit higher levels of power than they are normally capable of. Cabba was already beaten badly then went Super Saiyan and was able to surpass Vegeta, as stated by Piccolo. In that scene we see him punching and blasting relentlessly, both actions being incredibly exhausting and even though Cabba was clearly still enraged, Vegeta ended up taking his last punch with no issue. That's after Vegeta's knees were shown buckling, Cabba overpowering his guard at one point and Vegeta even needing to defend at all.
Nah we for some reason scale DBS using manga, not Toei
No it isn't.
It's actually not, though. It's from the anime comics and dragon boxes, which give information internally consistent with each other
Do we treat the DVD case as canon?
it's not just the "dvd case," it's a guide produced by bird studio that happens to be exclusive to the physical releases of the anime.
Tbf manga scaling needed to be revised when Oozaru got accepted too but now we can add onto it with Saiyans prolly being solar system in Ssj in Buu saga
We all know why that was debunked.
I thought we agreed 100% SSJ2 = 2x Grade 3 = 20x SSJ
OK.
OK
Ok
Surprised we don't use that already, ngl.
