The whiteroom's masterpiece VS The god of generation 0 (Remake)

[DivineAura44]

What were your points?

Koji's so skilled Daniel can't touch him. His immensely good ANPR also helps with this.

 

[Zefra3011]

So this is how I believe the fight goes:

Based on their fighting styles Daniel will start on the offensive, UI is considered a Berserk Mode and he always goes on the offensive, Ayanokouji on the other side will start more on the defensive, he does it even against weaker characters, just see how Ayanokouji fought Ryueen's gang; so basically Ayanokouji sees a Daniel dashing at him, if the hit lands then it's gg for Ayanokouji, tho Ayano has many many options here. Ayanokouji can use his AnPr, skill and experience advantage to fight accordingly; Daniel, while on the offensive, will leave openings, once you are in the motion of attacking you can't dodge, it's a basic concept of martial arts (something like this), while Daniel's learning ability would technically reach a EG rating (imo) his overall BIQ isn't that impressive as when he fights in UI is just keep attacking while copying others' technique so he always put himself in dangerous situations where he leaves openings while being in big motion attacks. I have to admit being in UI improves your reaction timing but it's useless when you are in a position where you can't dodge by default. Anyway I don't see why, given their fighting styles, Ayanokouji can't just PP him. Even if you assume that Daniel will endure it and eventually copy it now we would have a Daniel who reduced his stats to match koji's ones removing his One Shot advantage, he will still keep his offensive way to fight so Ayanokouji can just play around with his openings and PP him and now even if Daniel lands hits Ayano won't get one shotted unless Daniel uses Ayano's PP and Ayano will see pretty fast that he is copying him and will use the situation at his own advantage. We also have to remember that Ayanokouji has stamina advantage here in case the fight gets extended for any reason.

I vote for Koji.

Here

 

[Kachon123]

Koji's so skilled Daniel can't touch him. His immensely good ANPR also helps with this.

I mean, Daniel is pretty skilled in his own right. We've seen through his fight with Little Daniel that he'd simply grab the opponent the moment they attack, but if Koji's ANPR is that good, then he'd just see himself getting blitzed and killed in every single outcome, leading this to being inconclusive.

 

[Kachon123]

Here

The issue is that Koji has no way to hurt Daniel, even with his knife. it would literally be like a toddler punching a brick wall. There is a difference of about 70 THOUSAND times between them. Either Koji tries to hurt Daniel and Daniel somehow can't land a single hit so it's incon or Daniel is able to land a single hit with his blitz advantage and wins. I personally believe Daniel is more likely to land 1 hit than neither of them being able to hurt the other.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Little Daniel tried to do the same exact thing to his UI Body, and it did nothing. Why? Because UI Daniel had far greater durability (which doesn't vary) and had techniques to avoid getting hurt in detrimental ways. To Koji, there are no "weak points" on Daniel's body. Why? Because he has over 68644.2191x greater durability than Koji's peak AP. Koji has no durability negation on his page, so there's no way he's going to be able to harm Daniel in any way before he gets grabbed and blitzed. Koji having a knife wouldn't help either as Daniel has shown to be able to tank slashing attacks with tens of thousands of greater AP than Koji can dish out.

I'm obviously voting Daniel for having far superior speed, AP, durability, adaptability, copying skills, techniques, and experience.

Yeah, if the durability doesn't change with his AP then it's a stomp for Daniel. I get Koji has a knife but its a ******* 68,644.2191x AP diffrence. I stg, you could throw a toddler with a knife against MCU Spider-Man and someone on this wiki would say that the toddler would stand a chance due to piercing damage. People really overestimate piercing damage on this site. It doesn't matter if what you're holding is pointy, you physically could not generage enough force to pierce even the weakest spots on someones body if they were that much stronger than you

 

[DivineAura44]

The issue is that Koji has no way to hurt Daniel, even with his knife. it would literally be like a toddler punching a brick wall. There is a difference of about 70 THOUSAND times between them. Either Koji tries to hurt Daniel and Daniel somehow can't land a single hit so it's incon or Daniel is able to land a single hit with his blitz advantage and wins. I personally believe Daniel is more likely to land 1 hit than neither of them being able to hurt the other.

Koji has way better stamina too so Daniel is never gonna gas Koji out if you thought of that as a possibility.

 

[Kachon123]

Exactly. This is either incon if Daniel truly would be unable to land a hit because of insane ANPR or a stomp.

 

[DivineAura44]

Yeah, if the durability doesn't change with his AP then it's a stomp for Daniel. I get Koji has a knife but its a ******* 68,644.2191x AP diffrence. I stg, you could throw a toddler with a knife against MCU Spider-Man and someone on this wiki would say that the toddler would stand a chance due to piercing damage. People really overestimate piercing damage on this site. It doesn't matter if what you're holding is pointy, you physically could not generage enough force to pierce even the weakest spots on someones body if they were that much stronger than you

But ANPR tho

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Also, correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't seen the show in years but doesn't Koji dodge people mainly because he's a lot faster than most of them and not because of AnPr? He obviously has great prediction skills, but a good chunk of his dodging feats are because he's just that much faster than his opponent, and with speed equal, wouldn't he have that advantage taken away?

Again, haven't seen the show in years and I'm not caught up on the verse, I'm probably wrong

 

[Zefra3011]

The issue is that Koji has no way to hurt Daniel, even with his knife. it would literally be like a toddler punching a brick wall. There is a difference of about 70 THOUSAND times between them. Either Koji tries to hurt Daniel and Daniel somehow can't land a single hit so it's incon or Daniel is able to land a single hit with his blitz advantage and wins. I personally believe Daniel is more likely to land 1 hit than neither of them being able to hurt the other.

If you look at the PP link I sent you can see Ayano has Limited Durab Neg thanks to a PP. His PP even helped him damage characters' he couldn't damage normally.

 

[Kachon123]

Koji has way better stamina too so Daniel is never gonna gas Koji out if you thought of that as a possibility.

I mean sure, but it's not like Daniel has bad stamina either. He has the "perfect" body with "perfect" experiences and mastery of abilities, so I doubt he'd ever bring himself to a point of exhaustion.

 

[Kachon123]

His PP even helped him damage characters' he couldn't damage normally.

Pressure Points have limits. You'd sound ridiculous to say that a 9-B character could harm a 6-C character with just pressure points, and the same applies here. The difference between the force that Koji would be striking with and the sheer durability that Daniel has is way to large. It would be like expecting the effects of a deep tissue massage from a feather dropping on your back.

 

[Zefra3011]

Pressure Points have limits. You'd sound ridiculous to say that a 9-B character could harm a 6-C character with just pressure points, and the same applies here. The difference between the force that Koji would be striking with and the sheer durability that Daniel has is way to large. It would be like expecting the effects of a deep tissue massage from a feather dropping on your back.

Yes and no, It depends on the PP, some PPs are able to damage your internal organs (throat and chin for example) while others outright hit places with below human durability by default (eyes and balls).

 

[Kachon123]

I'd also like to mention that Koji's ANPR isn't infallible. It's shown that opponents can overwhelm him and outright overpower him if he's unable to determine their upper limit. That's like the entire point of UI. Daniel would immediately continue to get better and better and better to the point to where Koji wouldn't know how high he can keep going. The moment he gets touched is the moment the fight ends.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Just cancel this matchup at this point bruh.

In the first thread, it was said that Daniel's stats equalized to his opponents, so I really advised Zetsu to just work upon that in a CRT and get it accepted before using that to argue.
Now, it's being argued that's not really the case.

(And the funny thing is that Zetsu even got it accepted to keep UI Daniel's stats as "varies".)

 

[Zefra3011]

I'd also like to mention that Koji's ANPR isn't infallible. It's shown that opponents can overwhelm him and outright overpower him if he's unable to determine their upper limit. That's like the entire point of UI. Daniel would immediately continue to get better and better and better to the point to where Koji wouldn't know how high he can keep going. The moment he gets touched is the moment the fight ends.

The Accelerated Development you are claiming here isn't on the profile, so you can't even bring it up.

 

[Kachon123]

Yes and no, It depends on the PP, some PPs are able to damage your internal organs (throat and chin for example)

Which wouldn't damage Daniel for obvious reasons.

while others outright hit places with below human durability by default (eyes and balls).

UI Daniel has the perfect experiences, knowing how to fight and counter against every martial art style he himself knows as shown with his fight against Little UI Daniel, meaning he knows how to counter attacks like that via CQC and Systema.

The Accelerated Development you are claiming here isn't on the profile, so you can't even bring it up.

It is.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Yes and no, It depends on the PP, some PPs are able to damage your internal organs (throat and chin for example) while others outright hit places with below human durability by default (eyes and balls).

Great reasoning. Hold on, I'm making a Koji vs Homelander matchup. After all, Homelander has eyes and balls, and if I give Koji a knife he'll have piercing damage. I'm sure Koji's got this. So what if Homelander could tank the MOAB 4 times over and be fine? He has balls, so he's doomed

A fly slamming into you at full speed wouldn't hurt your testicals and might iritate your eyes a bit but that's about it. That unironically might not be as big of a diffrence in AP as Koji & Daniel

Anyways, I've got to go, I'm about to watch a 10 year old martial artist who knows to punch someone in the throat go against Prime Mike Tyson, I'll tell you if the 10 year old hurts him or not once I get back

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'd also like to mention that Koji's ANPR isn't infallible. It's shown that opponents can overwhelm him and outright overpower him if he's unable to determine their upper limit. That's like the entire point of UI. Daniel would immediately continue to get better and better and better to the point to where Koji wouldn't know how high he can keep going. The moment he gets touched is the moment the fight ends.

This is very wrong and being taken out of context. Ayanokouji can do the predictions in two ways, the very first being the analyzing of the upper limit (in which he just shows himself become unbeatable), and the second one is intuition.

Also, he isn't getting "overpowered" by his opponent here. This is from the fight between Ayanokouji and Ryuuen (Year 1 Volume 7, or Season 2 Episode 12), and Ayanokouji was literally playing around.

The scene you are mentioning is when Ayanokouji also gets Ryuuen's upper limits, and before this played out, on the page before, he was still predicting it, Ryuuen himself mentioned it. In the anime as well, he is shown to be predicting Ryuuen. And that's due to intuition.

The only way to adapt to Ayanokouji's AnPr is when you deliberately try to hide your upper limit (like Tsukishiro and Shiba did, and that was only because they have prior knowledge on Ayanokouji), or like Ryuuen whose fighting style is literally surprising his opponents through demonstrating higher abilities.

And even if you do happen to hide your abilities, it is still not your victory. Like stated before, Ayanokouji was predicting Ryuuen even before reading his upper limit. And even when Tsukishiro and Shiba were hiding their abilities, Ayanokouji used his intuition-based predicting, he predicted that Shiba was attacking better (and for the matter, he had also put up more power in his techniques than before), and he predicts that Tsukishiro would have done a subsequent strike.

For the context, Ayanokouji is fighting two opponents here who have perfect coordination, like one attack one after the another, and Ayanokouji moved once after predicting their next moves to evade a number of strikes at once. Fighting a single opponent is out of question for him.

The scan you are mentioning doesn't highlight that Ayanokouji can be obliterated if he fails to read his opponents' upper limits, but just that he had read Ryuuen's upper limit and that, there was nothing which could be done.

Just to mention how insane he can be, Ayanokouji predicted that someone was going to lift and throw someone on the ground before they even started doing it and had just moved forward (and he hadn't read the upper limit of that person), and he was also able to predict that someone was going to stab themselves with a knife they were holding in their hand (basically doing self-harm), in a position where the knife was aimed forward and wasn't in a trajectory where something like that could even be thought of, much more, predicted.

 

[Zefra3011]

Which wouldn't damage Daniel for obvious reasons.

Throat is listed as outright Limited Durab Neg.
For the chin is all about creating a shock that reaches the brain, you don't even need to damage the chin itself, its just something that happens due to a force being applied there.

UI Daniel has the perfect experiences, knowing how to fight and counter against every martial art style he himself knows as shown with his fight against Little UI Daniel, meaning he knows how to counter attacks like that via CQC and Systema.

I even agreed Daniel has reaction advantage here but it doesn't change how their fighting styles wont allow this to happen, he might be able to counter them but it's useless when Ayanokouji attacks him when he cant counter at all.

It is.

Can you show me where? All I saw it's AD due to copying skills.

A fly slamming into you at full speed wouldn't hurt your testicals and might iritate your eyes a bit but that's about it. That unironically might not be as big of a diffrence in AP as Koji & Daniel

Yes, you Need a minimum of AP in order to hit a PP but it doesn't depend on the opponent's durability.
Balls have a durability on their own even if low and already the fact that you say eyes can irritate due to being hit by a fly proves that lower AP can have effects by hitting PP even when the difference it's huge; a fly can irritate your eyes even tho our durability is street, now image a street+ attack there still considering you can't improve your eyes durability as they dont have anything like bones and muscles covering them.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Great reasoning. Hold on, I'm making a Koji vs Homelander matchup. After all, Homelander has eyes and balls, and if I give Koji a knife he'll have piercing damage. I'm sure Koji's got this. So what if Homelander could tank the MOAB 4 times over and be fine? He has balls, so he's doomed

A fly slamming into you at full speed wouldn't hurt your testicals and might iritate your eyes a bit but that's about it. That unironically might not be as big of a diffrence in AP as Koji & Daniel

Anyways, I've got to go, I'm about to watch a 10 year old martial artist who knows to punch someone in the throat go against Prime Mike Tyson, I'll tell you if the 10 year old hurts him or not once I get back

The concept of Pressure Points doesn't apply to characters who actually have high amounts of endurance, just to mention. Like if a character got their pressure points sliced or attacked there many times and were still fighting, it's obvious that they don't feel pain at those spots.

The thing about Pressure Points is just that it is attacking those points of the body where the concept of durability cannot even be applied.

And well, that 10-year-old martial artist can damage Mike Tyson if Mike allows him to really attack his throat, and if that kid isn't like Tier 10-B or something, considering how pressure points are about 10-C to 10-B.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm the same as the previous thread. koji just chilling

Counted

 

[Dinozxd]

I missed like 4 pages of discussion. What's being discussed exactly?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Wait this is so bullshit. UI doesn't lower Daniel's AP as equal to his opponent. UI just makes it so that Daniel won't use his full strength unless he needs to.

Gun statement contradicts this

Literally every time he's used UI, he's not only skillstomped his opponents,

Because they were less skilled than him?

but also AP and Speed stomped them right from the beginning of the fight, sometimes even one-shotting or two-shotting his opponents.

He never oneshotted anyone

So no, Daniel doesn't have equal AP to Koji, he's still able to oneshot him, as he did to Jay. Can't believe we're just casually spreading misinformation.

Seems like the one who is spreading misinformation is you and omitting information too, That's foul

Little Daniel tried to do the same exact thing to his UI Body, and it did nothing. Why? Because UI Daniel had far greater durability (which doesn't vary) and had techniques to avoid getting hurt in detrimental ways. To Koji, there are no "weak points" on Daniel's body. Why? Because he has over 68644.2191x greater durability than Koji's peak AP.

Pressure points negate this disadvantage, More over, He has a knife

Koji has no durability negation on his page,

He does, If you legit look at his profile and go to the "White Room training" page you will see it

so there's no way he's going to be able to harm Daniel in any way before he gets grabbed and blitzed.

Speed equalized so irrelevant

Koji having a knife wouldn't help either as Daniel has shown to be able to tank slashing attacks with tens of thousands of greater AP than Koji can dish out.

I don't think i need to tell you the difference between a hand and a knife?

That's not a slashing attack, Hands are not sharp lmao

I'm obviously voting Daniel for having far superior speed, AP,

Equalized

adaptability

Koji has better adaptability

copying skills

Irrelevant when you cannot hit your opponent

experience.

He does not come close to Koji in experience lol

 

[azontr]

Arguing someone with a knife and pressure points can overcome a 68,000 times durability gap is absolutely insane.

Daniel stomps. This is ridiculous lmfao.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Someone remove the votes for Koji lmao. They were voted based on misinformation given by @XxZetsuxX in the OP

I didn't do that considering the scan outright states that he gets weaker

Yeah, unfollowing this and getting it removed in the verse match removal thread whenever grace finished. This is a bit ridiculous.

Yeah no, Showing bias when a character you like starts losing?

Yeah, if the durability doesn't change with his AP then it's a stomp for Daniel. I get Koji has a knife but its a ******* 68,644.2191x AP diffrence. I stg, you could throw a toddler with a knife against MCU Spider-Man and someone on this wiki would say that the toddler would stand a chance due to piercing damage. People really overestimate piercing damage on this site. It doesn't matter if what you're holding is pointy, you physically could not generage enough force to pierce even the weakest spots on someones body if they were that much stronger than you

It doesn't work like that lol

Lookism characters are showned to be able to get pierced/slashed by sharp things

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Arguing someone with a knife and pressure points can overcome a 68,000 times durability gap is absolutely insane.

Daniel stomps. This is ridiculous lmfao.

They are not immune to any sharp objects, They legit get cut and stabbed, This is argument from incredulity

 

[azontr]

They are not immune to any sharp objects, They legit get cut and stabbed

So does every character in existence. You can get stabbed or slashed by people who scale to your AP— not people 68,000 times weaker than you. Slashing attacks only work if you're actually relative to your opponent.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

So does every character in existence.

Exactly

You can get stabbed or slashed by people who scale to your AP— not people 68,000 times weaker than you. Slashing attacks only work if you're actually relative to your opponent.

They are not made of metal or anything, They are made of skin which is not resistent to sharp objects

 

[Tomfer]

Wow, what a mess. Y'all need to chill and just close this thread, it's not going anywhere.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Wow, what a mess. Y'all need to chill and just close this thread, it's not going anywhere.

Nah, It's ok

 

[azontr]

They are not made of metal or anything, They are made of skin which is not resistent to sharp objects

Daniel's skin may as well be made of metal in comparison to Ayanakouji. This is like saying you can cut a mountain with a knife.

I don't particularly care about whether or not Ayanakouji wins, but if his win condition hinges on his ability to harm Daniel, then any votes that have used such a reasoning as their basis need to be removed.

 

[Tomfer]

Lookism characters are showned to be able to get pierced/slashed by sharp things

They are not made of metal or anything, They are made of skin which is not resistent to sharp objects

This arguement is flawed for a number of reasons, one of them being that most weaponry, in the wiki, are accepted to scale with the user's AP. For example, Red Hood's pistols are considered 9-A because Red Hood himself is 9-A, plus actual feats, no normal IRL pistol is 9-A. So a knife in Lookism is stronger than any IRL knife. It's like saying that Batman (an 8-C character) can be harmed by irl 9-C guns because he's harmed by Deadshot or Deathstroke's weaponry, which most of the time are considered just normal guns.

Nah, It's ok

No, it's goofy lmao.

 

[Robo432343]

68000?? WTF

bro close this shit

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Arguing someone with a knife and pressure points can overcome a 68,000 times durability gap is absolutely insane.

Daniel stomps. This is ridiculous lmfao.

Yeah, that's kinda wild. I have closed this now.

 

[Catzlaflame]

The OP of this thread requested for this to be re-opened by claiming that the oposition has neglected to aknowledge certain points that would prevent this match from being a stomp; they cite the vote count as supporting evidence for this.

Also, reviewing the messages above, it seems some people (Kachon) believe that information has been misrepresented which is what led people to vote for Ayanakoji (?). In that case, the superficial glance I gave this earlier probably won't be enough to warrant an actual vote so disregard that for the time being. I would take a deeper look, but I have a backlog of CRTs to evaluate, IRL stuff to do, and Content Mod stuff to handle on fandom.

@XxZetsuxX Go ahead and explain why this isn't a stomp again, but keep in mind, as I said, if this needs to be re-locked.... I do need to do my job.

 

[Kachon123]

Sounds good.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I will just copy paste what i sent to the mods, It will be faster that way, So here we go;

This is what i said to Lephyr;

Yeah, that's kinda wild. I have closed this now.

I believe this without context will make people think it's a stomp which i certainly do not agree with because of the following reasons;

Their argument implies that Daniel's entire body is 9-A which is complete and utterly false when we have instances where pressure points cause major damage, Moreover Lookism human biology works just as IRL, The weak points are 10-C to 10-B, They legit think they are 9-A, Ayanokouji can just attack the eyes, Throat and groin which most definitely are not 9-A

Divines argument is that any attack that touches means he got blitzed which is not the case in these scans i provided in the thread, And when i ask him for proof that they were blitzing each other like statements, He just says "It doesn't need to be stated" which shows he is using argument from incredulity and refuses to show proof

The 3rd argument is that they say Daniel doesn't get weaker when fighting weaker opponents which is blantantly false when we have these statements, More over, Daniel has once fought Gun who could obliterate people like Eli Jang, Johan and some other characters without much difficulty who were high tiers of the time, Yet Daniel was fighting on par with them and only won because of being more skilled

Then we have idiotic arguments like these (Sorry for sounding offensive) where they say the knife attacks are sharper than actual knives when said move doesn't even cut anything in the series, This is just AP, Then we have outright showings of lookism characters not being immune to slashing/piercing weapons or even fking glass shards and chopsticks, Also, They used physics in the worst way. "In a 9-A verse, if a knife can harm a 9-A character, then that knife is 9-A." This is automatically very bad.

For these reasons i believe this thread should reopen

And i would like to mention on how this sounds like they don't want the character they like to lose which is just foul

This is what i sent to Catzaflame;

This thread ended up being closed due to people assuming this match was a stomp because of the huge AP gap between the character's (9-C (13,2 KJ) vs 9-A (160 MJ))

The reason why i don't think this is a stomp is because the character who had 9-C AP had a knife and the characters from the 9-A verse were showned to be not immune to piercing/slashing weapons

Also, People used physics in the worst way.

"In a 9-A verse, if a knife can harm a 9-A character, then that knife is 9-A" which is complete and utterly false considering said weapons were not modified nor was it verse exclusive weapons

Consider a punch which is thrown a force of 10 N at an area of 50 cm2 = 0.01 m2.Now, consider a knife attack done with 0.01 mm2 = 1e-8 m2.If a 10 N force is done on something of 0.01 m2, consider that at 10 N on 1e-8 m2 as well. Now, if this 10 N force were to work on 1e-8 specifically, it would be 1e+9 N, which is like 1 billion Newton instead of the earlier 10 N. It's just that the area affected will be lower, but the effective force will be higher. That's literally piercing damage.

Moreover the 9-C in question is also very skilled to the point he can just attack pressure points (Which he does start with that if the opponent has alot of muscle mass), Not to mention we were discussing stuff about Pressure points in the thread with people agreeing that it worked against said character

And funnily enough the 9-C character, Had the thread not have been closed, He would've won due to just slashing the opponent's throat or any other pressure point

The votes are; 10 votes in favor of the 9-C character and 5 votes in favor of the 9-A character

 

[azontr]

who had 9-C AP

Who is this character you're referring to? Do they have a profile on the wiki?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Who is this character you're referring to? Do they have a profile on the wiki?

The characters who are being used in this match, Who else?

Koji is 9-C (atm) and Daniel is 9-A