The white room's master piece VS The god of the generation 0

[Idc.violet]

He didn't get hurt by Goo's katana so he is quite good at avoiding hits too.

It's important here how or where did he get the blow? Where exactly is he injured? Because I don't think he's going to be able to stand up if I drive a knife through his chest until I split his skull

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Gun also has UI and is equal/maybe even superior to Goo so

Irrelevant when Gun isn't even as skilled as Koji

Same goes for Koji.

Last time i checked Koji never once did he get hit in the entire series? Even against Tsukishiro who was just as skilled as him and Shiba who had perfect coordination with Tsukishiro

He only ALLOWED because he wanted to test smth

He won't be doing that with Daniel, He has no reason to

 

[Dinozxd]

It's important here how or where did he get the blow? Where exactly is he injured? Because I don't think he's going to be able to stand up if I drive a knife through his chest until I split his skull

He didn't seem to have any bruises or cuts in his body, so I would assume that he never got hit (Lookism chapter 344).

Irrelevant when Gun isn't even as skilled as Koji

Gun is at least as skilled as Daniel with UI who's at least close to Koji in skill, but we were having that debate for the past five pages so I'm not gonna repeat myself again and waste time with the same arguments.

Last time i checked Koji never once did he get hit in the entire series? Even against Tsukishiro who was just as skilled as him and Shiba who had perfect coordination with Tsukishiro

He only ALLOWED because he wanted to test smth

He won't be doing that with Daniel, He has no reason to

Nice. These wouldn't really help him aganist Daniel though.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Nice. These wouldn't really help him aganist Daniel though.

You say you don't wanna repeat yourself yet you are making me repeat myself?

ANPR says hello

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also, I would like to remind you that adapting and copying alone won't make you reach Koji level, Let's that right

Koji is E.G in combat whereas Daniel is just genius, So i don't think he is anywhere close to Koji at all

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I also noticed something

Since UI Daniel stats gets reduced to match the opponent

That means he also gets LS reduced to match Koji (Just wanted to throw that out lol)

 

[Idc.violet]

He didn't seem to have any bruises or cuts in his body, so I would assume that he never got hit (Lookism chapter 344).

there's not a single panel in the chapter that shows him getting hit. there's only a collision at the end that's not shown, and the spearhead in Goo's hand is not sharp anyway.

tbh I thought the fight was inconc for a while but losing the one shot advantage and the knife difference I still think koji got it

The knife poses a big threat to Daniel's offense and makes Koji's defense and offense much more comfortable.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

there's not a single panel in the chapter that shows him getting hit. there's only a collision at the end that's not shown, and the spearhead in Goo's hand is not sharp anyway.

tbh I thought the fight was inconc for a while but losing the one shot advantage and the knife difference I still think koji got it

The knife poses a big threat to Daniel's offense and makes Koji's defense and offense much more comfortable.

UI Daniel is mainly tanking and blocking too

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I would like to mention how dodging a knife is much more harder than dodging the giant sword staff that Goo had

You can legit just grab the wooden parts (Like Daniel did), With a knife Daniel has nowhere to grab

You just need to stay close to the opponent so that the cutting edge won't affect you

And with Goo's weapon, He had to make big swings to attack Daniel which is a big motion that makes dodging SO MUCH easier

 

[Idc.violet]

UI Daniel is mainly tanking and blocking too

It gives the answer to this direct encounter imo. It's pointless to argue so much. Daniel can withstand a stab wound, but I'm not talking about a single blow. For example; Koji responds to Daniel's punch with a knife. That means Daniel punches the knife, no problem. but the encounter continues. constant injury would cause him to bleed to death. And before that, after a certain point, the wounds take effect. Also Koji's knife threat affects his movements and abilities.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Disarming Koji will also be complicated when they both have the same LS due to UI weakness so disarming Koji will be impossible (Not that he will be capable of grabbing him in the first place)

 

[Idc.violet]

Disarming Koji will also be complicated when they both have the same LS due to UI weakness so disarming Koji will be impossible (Not that he will be capable of grabbing him in the first place)

well, when it comes to the knife, koji takes it here. in fact if there is an injury, Daniel's stamina, which is already one of his biggest problems, will be even worse.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Honestly, I think the arguements for Daniel have been more convincing for me. He not only has a lot of the same hacks (Pressure points, Analytical Prediction (although it's not at good, he still has it), ect), but he can activley adapt to the way Koji is fighting, has overcome other peoples analytical prediction that works simularly to Ayanos (not as strong as Ayanos but it works seemingly the same way), can instantly react to attacks, and has such a physical edge it's not even funny. I get Koji has really good AnPr, but his entire arguement depends on that. He's smart, but hes not ******* clairvoyant, and Daniel has abilities that iirc don't exist in the COTE verse, so him predicting them is not likely at the beginning

I think that Dinozxd's arguements are more convincing, and I don't see why UI Daniel wouldn't be able to just eventually adapt to Ayano and disarm/one-shot him. I'm voting Daniel

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Honestly, I think the arguements for Daniel have been more convincing for me.

I don't think using NLF and Argument from incredulity makes this more convincing at all

He not only has a lot of the same hacks (Pressure points, Analytical Prediction (although it's not at good, he still has it), ect)

It really isn't

, but he can activley adapt to the way Koji is fighting, has overcome other peoples analytical prediction that works simularly to Ayanos (not as strong as Ayanos but it works seemingly the same way),

This right here is what i am talking about, This is NLF, Daniel has never adapted to anything like Koji

He has only adapted to (I can read your moves) type of ANPR and not the shit ton of factors Koji uses to predict

can instantly react to attacks, and has such a physical edge it's not even funny.

Ui Daniel has a weakness of reducing it's own AP, Speed and LS to match the opponent so this is not a valid argument

I get Koji has really good AnPr, but his entire arguement depends on that.

It does not, If you read the debate, You will see how people argue Koji can create openings to attack, He has a knife to play offensive and defensive

He's smart, but hes not ******* clairvoyant,

He can outpredict someone who reads 100% of your mind lol

and Daniel has abilities that iirc don't exist in the COTE verse

Don't use the spinning kick counter as an argument, This technique exists IRL and Dino is legit basing his vote on this

This is argument from incredulity on his part assuming this will work when Koji has learned Jeet Kune Do, Karate, Taijutsu and Taekwondo so he definitely can dodge smth simple as this

, so him predicting them is not likely at the beginning

He does not start with Attack reflection nor CQC

Also Systema and CQC also exist IRL

I think that Dinozxd's arguements are more convincing, and I don't see why UI Daniel wouldn't be able to just eventually adapt

His adaptation is not instant and assuming he can adapt to Koji ANPR + scaling chain is NLF

to Ayano and disarm/

They both have the same LS due to UI's weakness

one-shot him.

Daniel doesn't one shot because of UI's weakness

 

[Idc.violet]

I get Koji has really good AnPr, but his entire arguement depends on that. He's smart, but hes not ******* clairvoyant

I think that Dinozxd's arguements are more convincing, and I don't see why UI Daniel wouldn't be able to just eventually adapt to Ayano and disarm/one-shot him. I'm voting Daniel

I can clearly see that you only read Dino's arguments xd

It has already been announced that it is a debuff from the UI that he can't one shot

It may have done well against Goo's spear, but Koji's blade is much smaller in volume. He was able to get through Goo's spear because of its longer length.

I also explained the big difference between copying and adaptation on page 2 or 3

and Daniel has abilities that iirc don't exist in the COTE verse, so him predicting them is not likely at the beginning

it's just nonsense. he was able to avoid an attack from a blind spot by Shiba (the man who could kill his presence). This is proof of his inhuman intuition, he just reacted to the sensation of aggression. in comparison it is insane that he was unprepared for an opponent who was right in front of him and who was only using “a technique he did not know”. Even if he didn't know which technique he was using, he could react or anticipate based on his sense of aggression and the direction of the attack. or he could use his knife defensively against Daniel's techniques. Ryuuen (iirc housen too) also had his own fighting style but to no avail

 

[Zefra3011]

Saying that just because he adapted to a lower level AnPr and therefore he can do the same against Ayano is like saying just because I was able to beat someone at chess I can do the same against any elo.

 

[Dinozxd]

You say you don't wanna repeat yourself yet you are making me repeat myself?

ANPR says hello

The hell is the relevance between that and ANPR? Koji also gaps his verse in terms of reaction speed, you're making it sound like him not getting hit is mainly cuz of his skills while even Tsukishiro in their fight noted that Koji would get hit if it wasn't for his abnormal reaction time.

Also, I would like to remind you that adapting and copying alone won't make you reach Koji level, Let's that right

Adapting would make him evolve in response to his ANPR and copying would basically help him mimic and master martial arts Koji uses.

Koji is E.G in combat whereas Daniel is just genius, So i don't think he is anywhere close to Koji at all

To be honest, wiki doesn't really have any standards for BIQ and combat intelligence so idk how those feats (which in comparison to characters that are listed as Extraordinary Genius in combat are really underwhelming) got accepted for E.G battle iq. Someone should really make standards for that imo.

His intelligence section doesn't really mention anything other than his adaptation and martial art knowledge which aren't really things we haven't discussed.

there's not a single panel in the chapter that shows him getting hit.

Which implies that he didn't get hit during the fight?

and the spearhead in Goo's hand is not sharp anyway

He was shown being able to harm opponents with chopsticks (Lookism chapter 308) so pretty sure a weapon that is a more sword like thing (a sword pretty much makes him an incredibly better fighter) would've damaged Daniel if it hit.

I would like to mention how dodging a knife is much more harder than dodging the giant sword staff that Goo had

Not even talking about that part. He didn't even get hit after he fought Goo with a sword.

Disarming Koji will also be complicated when they both have the same LS due to UI weakness so disarming Koji will be impossible (Not that he will be capable of grabbing him in the first place)

You don't need LS to disarm people.

Saying that just because he adapted to a lower level AnPr and therefore he can do the same against Ayano is like saying just because I was able to beat someone at chess I can do the same against any elo.

If you have UI Daniel's adaptation, why not?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The hell is the relevance between that and ANPR? Koji also gaps his verse in terms of reaction speed, you're making it sound like him not getting hit is mainly cuz of his skills

Considering not even point blank attacks and sneak attacks from blind spots could do the trick from people who had perfect coordination as a team and 1 of them being just as skilled as Ayanokouji

Then yes, Koji is skill based

while even Tsukishiro in their fight noted that Koji would get hit if it wasn't for his abnormal reaction time.

You make it sound like he needs reaction time when he can dodge even before you do anything (Ryuen vs Koji which is on his profile)

Adapting would make him evolve in response to his ANPR

Daniel only adapted to low level ANPR with 1 factor, Stop wanking this when Daniel has not shown like ever having adapted to ANPR based on intuition, Feints etc etc

and copying would basically help him mimic and master martial arts Koji uses.

Wanna make me repeat myself?

To be honest, wiki doesn't really have any standards for BIQ and combat intelligence so idk how those feats (which in comparison to characters that are listed as Extraordinary Genius in combat are really underwhelming) got accepted for E.G battle iq. Someone should really make standards for that imo.

His intelligence section doesn't really mention anything other than his adaptation and martial art knowledge which aren't really things we haven't discussed.

Does not matter, It's accepted on the Wiki and by staff

The sheer amount of feats Koji has makes him easily E.G

Your excuse for Daniel being just as skilled as him is just copy GG

Daniel does not have 15k fights under his belt, Did not do martial arts as a kid against professional fighters, Does not have a professional record against professional fighters as a kid, UI Daniel never fought against anyone stronger than him, UI Daniel does not have the same level of BIQ and ANPR level as Koji, Did not fought anyone more skilled than him and the list goes on

Not even talking about that part. He didn't even get hit after he fought Goo with a sword.

Which is still larger than a knife

You don't need LS to disarm people.

You actually do, Also, What is Daniel gonna do to disarm him?

Grab the blade? He gets cut, Koji just needs to swipe his hand, Grab the arm? Won't do anything as they have the same LS

Also, He never disarmed Goo, He just broke the spear, He never grabbed Goo and disarmed him

So don't use this argument ever again, He wouldn't be able to break the knife

If you have UI Daniel's adaptation, why not?

Are you seriously gonna keep using no limit fallacy to justify this?

 

[Zefra3011]

If you have UI Daniel's adaptation, why not?

You basically claimed he can adapt ignoring the complexity, I Guess we Will have Daniel adapting to omniscient characters' AnPr next

 

[RoggerReggor]

not really. he started training in martial arts at the age of 4 and at that age they were just getting beaten up by the instructors because they were just starting to train and they were very young

They were allowed to attack the instructors, when all of it was happening, Ayanokouji mentioned that they could attack the instructors, but the only thing was that the instructors possessed a lot of power. So, the only thing they did was enduring the stuff.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Saying that just because he adapted to a lower level AnPr and therefore he can do the same against Ayano is like saying just because I was able to beat someone at chess I can do the same against any elo.

True, plotting their differences in chess. Daniel adapted to 400 Elo while Ayanokouji is like grandmaster level lol.

 

[RoggerReggor]

(not as strong as Ayanos but it works seemingly the same way)

It doesn't. It's a hard misconception and Chuck doesn't really have a reliable profile on the wiki, so I would actually want the assumption of Ayanokouji's AnPr being same to a character with actual scans from the source material, and I know that it doesn't work the same way. Ayanokouji demolishes, obliterates and destroys in AnPr.

 

[RoggerReggor]

After reading everything, I have come to realize that we are no longer using UI Daniel as 9-A but rather trying to have their stats equalized due to the nature of UI. If that's the case, then Zetsu or someone should likely change the statistics on Daniel's profile for the UI key as "Varies" and Dino should work on making a profile for Chuck to have his AnPr added with justifications to make it to the level of Ayanokouji, or should downgrade the nature of Ayanokouji's AnPr (unviable in the case) and this matchup should be taken on hold, or I prefer that it should be done with a new thread. Thank you.

 

[Dinozxd]

After reading everything, I have come to realize that we are no longer using UI Daniel as 9-A but rather trying to have their stats equalized due to the nature of UI. If that's the case, then Zetsu or someone should likely change the statistics on Daniel's profile for the UI key as "Varies"

He has Stat Amps for "being able to boost the user's dynamic visual acuity and momentary though process" which just sounds like Enhanced Senses to me tbh.

Dino should work on making a profile for Chuck to have his AnPr added with justifications to make it to the level of Ayanokouji,

Not doin allat for a verse I don't even support lol

Although my point was misunderstood again ig. I think I have explained how I don't think Chuck is equal to Koji in ANPR like 3 times now.

or should downgrade the nature of Ayanokouji's AnPr

I'd rather go through his Extraordinary Genius battle iq as the wiki don't even have standards for battle iq like that and any other character that has E.G combat knowledge have much better feats than Koji in that regard imo (as far as I've seen).

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Although my point was misunderstood again ig. I think I have explained how I don't think Chuck is equal to Koji in ANPR like 3 times now.

But you are still insisting that Daniel can adapt to something he never adapted which is still bad

 

[Dinozxd]

But you are still insisting that Daniel can adapt to something he never adapted which is still bad

He did adapt to ANPR while Koji has never adapted to a character who has techniques he has never seen before, can instantly copy and master every martial art he sees and constantly evolve in response to his opponent (at least not as fast as Daniel).

I think I also forgot to add this but, UI Daniel has kept up with and tanked attacks from Jichang Kwak, who has hands that can cut through metal. Knife isn't much of a problem to him, plus he can even tank many knife attacks as he's seen being able to tank sharp materials. Plus, he can even use Jichang's hand to block knife hits which would easily confuse Koji.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He did adapt to ANPR

Daniel never adapted to someone who can predict based on intuition, Daniel never adapted to someone who can predict point blank sneak attacks, Daniel never adapted to anyone who can predict sneak attacks from blind spots and so on

You still have yet to show proof of this, Which you still did not even when you firmly believe he can

Show me proof of him being able to do this

Stop wanking

while Koji has never adapted to a character who has techniques he has never seen before

This technique exists IRL, Koji has learned martial arts that have more complex kicks than that

Daniel is moving his body which Koji can predict body movement, Intentions and feints

Also, You make it seem like he will adapt instantly to his first strike and evade when he won't

The only thing that is instant is his copy ability not his "adaptation"

Again, Stop wanking Daniel

I think I also forgot to add this but, UI Daniel has kept up with and tanked attacks from Jichang Kwak, who has hands that can cut through metal. Knife isn't much of a problem to him,

His hands are not are not sharp nor is it made of metal

Stop wanking

plus he can even tank many knife attacks as he's seen being able to tank sharp materials.

Never in his fight he is showned tanking sharp objects, Not in his fight against Terry Kwon, Not in his fight against, Samuel, Jake, Goo and Johan and not in his most recent fight against Vasco, Zack, Warren Chae and UI Daniel (True Body)

Stop wanking

Plus, he can even use Jichang's hand to block knife hits which would easily confuse Koji.

Confuse?? How is he confusing him with this? He is moving his hands imitating a knife, How is this confusing anyone?

Stop wanking

 

[RoggerReggor]

He has Stat Amps for "being able to boost the user's dynamic visual acuity and momentary though process" which just sounds like Enhanced Senses to me tbh.

So... it does support the "varies" tiering, I guess.

Not doin allat for a verse I don't even support lol

That's fine, and entirely your choice, but I would still recommend researching about the abilities of both the characters before making a statement. Chuck is like a guy who started boxing for fun and Ayanokouji's depiction is on the level of Mike Tyson, I guess this explains the sort because I have seen you being interested in fighting topics so this might help to relate.

Although my point was misunderstood again ig. I think I have explained how I don't think Chuck is equal to Koji in ANPR like 3 times now.

It doesn't matter, your initial messages were regarding that, and as others have mentioned, you still don't know the full extent of Ayanokouji's AnPr. Like your stance on that argument has changed from "It is equal to Chuck." to "It is better but, uh... it's still resistible." without any proofs of Daniel doing and resisting something similar to Ayanokouji's ability lol.

I'd rather go through his Extraordinary Genius battle iq as the wiki don't even have standards for battle iq like that and any other character that has E.G combat knowledge have much better feats than Koji in that regard imo (as far as I've seen).

Yeah, okay.

It's like common knowledge that a person with just Tier 9 tiering cannot be the best in intelligence, there's actually no need to mention "I have seen better characters than Ayanokouji.", like yeah it's obvious, you will continue to see better characters than him and it isn't related with this.

 

[Xleane]

Perfect human fra

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Perfect human fra

Counted

 

[DivineAura44]

Think I'll vote Daniel due to one-shotting.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Think I'll vote Daniel due to one-shotting.

He doesn't one shot

 

[DivineAura44]

Counted

Doesn't "perfect human" also apply to Daniel? How do you know who they meant here?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Doesn't "perfect human" also apply to Daniel? How do you know who they meant here?

Perfect Human is what Koji is known for

Perfect Body is what Daniel is known for

 

[DivineAura44]

He doesn't one shot

He does.

Perfect Human is what Koji is known for

Perfect Body is what Daniel is known for

Oh, NVM then.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He does.

No, We have already talked about this

UI has a weakness that it lowers it's own stats to match the opponent

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I placed it in the OP

 

[DivineAura44]

No, We have already talked about this

UI has a weakness that it lowers it's own stats to match the opponent

Not true, re-read the statement. "If the opponent's too strong"

This means that the UI adapts to the opponent, it'd have no way to tell how strong Koji is off rip. Meaning the first blow would still be one shot.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not true. Re-read the statement. "If the opponent's too strong"

This means that the UI adapts to the opponent, it'd have no way to tell how strong Koji is off rip. Meaning the first blow would still be one shot.

Re read it too, He says "And vice versa"

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Meaning the first blow would still be one shot.

We also already talked about this, Daniel is not bypassing Koji's ANPR

Saying he can adapt to something he never adapted is no limit fallacy