Fezzih_007
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Not really no, gonna say why a little later.
And do you need to say that so many times?
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The sword of the strawhat vs the heavenly sword
- Thread starter SatellaTheWoE
- Start date
And do you need to say that so many times?
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, the truth
Fezzih_007
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Alright, I am ready now.
Okay so first, the match start for 4km. No problem, both gonna run at each other to fight. The starting move for both is usually close combat, so thas't is going to be scenario 1. But if someone ask about attacking from a distance, I can cover that in scenario 2. Reid scale to Cecilus, and Cecilus can do a attack that can split clouds way in the sky.
And Zoro have a tons of ranged attack techniques, that can cover Kilometers. So they can both attack from affar. Who is better trought?
Is probally a draw. Zoro and Reid can both do the attack at the same speed, so it don't really matter. What does really matter, is who can consistently dodge more attacks from affar. Since speed equal, Zoro have the higher reaction speed here, and he also have layered precognition, so he can dodge way more attack from Reid, even from affar. And can pull out his attacks at the same speed. But since Reid can cut anything, he can cut Zoro attacks, so is hard to grasp to who's gonna win this. Zoro who dodges better, or Reid.
This question is ultimatly pointless, since Zoro not gonna stay attacking from a distance and gonna get annoyed with Reid spamming from a distance, so advancing to go from close combat is the goal.
Les't go to scenario 1, close combat. And this get complicated.
So about skill. While both of them are incredible fighters, with Reid negging Julius and others statements, and Zoro being Zoro, both have differents advantages.
Reid here have:
Better perception manipulation
Can cut almost all Zoro ranged attacks and his owm swords.
Can duraneg with time hax
Can resist fear manipulation
Zoro have:
Layered precognition
Faster reaction speed
Way better techniques from close range
Ap advantage
Lifting streght advantage
Better mobility
Better pain endurance
Better extrasensory perception
Attack Reflection
O Tatsumaki, who can one-shot and almost impossible to avoid in close range
If he loses his swords, he can still fight using Mutoryu
Now gonna bring out the argument of "Reid just gonna cut Zoro using his hax the moment they cross blade lel"
I need to eat my dinner, so i gonna make it quick, Reid is not do it in the first move. He is probally do it when he gonna get pressured, or wants to surprise Zoro in a surprise attack, but is most likely he would want cross blade with Zoro first, before using it.
And Zoro can uses his fastert reaction speed and precognition to dodge all his attacks, and even the space cutting ones.
Thas't it for now.
Okay so first, the match start for 4km. No problem, both gonna run at each other to fight. The starting move for both is usually close combat, so thas't is going to be scenario 1. But if someone ask about attacking from a distance, I can cover that in scenario 2. Reid scale to Cecilus, and Cecilus can do a attack that can split clouds way in the sky.
And Zoro have a tons of ranged attack techniques, that can cover Kilometers. So they can both attack from affar. Who is better trought?
Is probally a draw. Zoro and Reid can both do the attack at the same speed, so it don't really matter. What does really matter, is who can consistently dodge more attacks from affar. Since speed equal, Zoro have the higher reaction speed here, and he also have layered precognition, so he can dodge way more attack from Reid, even from affar. And can pull out his attacks at the same speed. But since Reid can cut anything, he can cut Zoro attacks, so is hard to grasp to who's gonna win this. Zoro who dodges better, or Reid.
This question is ultimatly pointless, since Zoro not gonna stay attacking from a distance and gonna get annoyed with Reid spamming from a distance, so advancing to go from close combat is the goal.
Les't go to scenario 1, close combat. And this get complicated.
So about skill. While both of them are incredible fighters, with Reid negging Julius and others statements, and Zoro being Zoro, both have differents advantages.
Reid here have:
Better perception manipulation
Can cut almost all Zoro ranged attacks and his owm swords.
Can duraneg with time hax
Can resist fear manipulation
Zoro have:
Layered precognition
Faster reaction speed
Way better techniques from close range
Ap advantage
Lifting streght advantage
Better mobility
Better pain endurance
Better extrasensory perception
Attack Reflection
O Tatsumaki, who can one-shot and almost impossible to avoid in close range
If he loses his swords, he can still fight using Mutoryu
Now gonna bring out the argument of "Reid just gonna cut Zoro using his hax the moment they cross blade lel"
I need to eat my dinner, so i gonna make it quick, Reid is not do it in the first move. He is probally do it when he gonna get pressured, or wants to surprise Zoro in a surprise attack, but is most likely he would want cross blade with Zoro first, before using it.
And Zoro can uses his fastert reaction speed and precognition to dodge all his attacks, and even the space cutting ones.
Thas't it for now.
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- #126
Fezzih_007
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Wait, it doesn't? Because i think 90% of my votes don't count then in this site then, sheesh.I am not sure if being racist counts as a wincon
He give here reasons here trought.
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- #128
Huh? What? You just made the point of speed equal meaningless? Zoro doesnt have a faster reaction speed. Also Reid has layered precognition as well
Again Zoro being better at dodging doesnt make sense, also he is the type to block attacks not dodge them
So, out of all the ReZero characters you choose to go for Julius who isnt even as skilled as Elsa.
No he does not
Your proof? Can he even pull shit on the same level as Theresia?
Mobility? How?
Can he sense layered invisible hands too?
What if, Reid just...blocks it with his indestructible sword and redirects the force. Which yk he can do as well
This is Reid in SBA, the "Light hearted bantering" part is over. This is Reid when he was beyond disgusted by Subaru and so he instantly behead him
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Fezzih_007
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Is good that no mods are wathing this match hahaha...
Is not trought, is still Lord Gin,
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- #131
Ong
Right. I would like to propose a counter arguement for that tho, the LS doesnt matter as much if Zoro fails to actually grab Reid since he cant tear him limb from limb like that
Fezzih_007
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Ok, that as fast.
Reid have faster combat speed, so he is the one getting downgrade here, but Zoro Reaction speed is normally faster than him, so they will stay the same, while Reid gets downgrade.
And Zoro precognition is way better already, and Reid resistance is not layered.
And i chossing him because he is the best comparative we have Reid battle on-screen+I need to eat so i quicly choose Julius as a feat.
Is not even on the page for Reid, so he don't scale until someone puts there lol.
And yes, he is able to block invisible attacks.
In speed equal, the combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.
Reid have faster combat speed, so he is the one getting downgrade here, but Zoro Reaction speed is normally faster than him, so they will stay the same, while Reid gets downgrade.
And Zoro precognition is way better already, and Reid resistance is not layered.
He can do both, really don't matter
He is trought.
And i chossing him because he is the best comparative we have Reid battle on-screen+I need to eat so i quicly choose Julius as a feat.
Is one the page for zoro, in techniques.
Acrobatics, is on the page.
And yes, he is able to block invisible attacks.
Reid can't exactly block a tornado that attack from every direction, before dying. His not gonna be able to redirects either, if he got taken by surprise.
Disagree with this btw, SBA don't give him any motives for him to want to kill Zoro, if he likes to fight. Like Julius.
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Goken GG.
VortechsTG
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Reid fought and killed dragons in his spare time and nearly commited genocide. He's like a trophy hunter. He has absolutely no regard for his targets. There's no reason he would not be willing to kill Zoro if the alternative is him being killed. Unless you're arguing that Zoro isn't trying to kill him, which completely changes the matchup, he would fight completely seriously.
Zabazab
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Reid can boost his perception like Wilhelm can.
Reid can pseudo-fly.
Reid's profile literally states "Superior to Wilhelm"
Doesn't need to block, he slashes through it.
Reid takes people stronger than or equal to him 100% seriously and will not hold back. Julius is small fry to Reid.
Fezzih_007
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I know.
Ok, so? I don't think that disproves my point about Zoro having way more technique in close range.
Minus in extrasensory perception.
While being destroyed by the tornado, no.
You actually have the best argument against my point about Reid not using his cutting hax.
Even then, i din't say his not gonna take this serious, i said he is not gonna use his cutting hax first move, because he would want to test Zoro swordmanship by crossing blades normally. Like Julius. He wanting to kill Zoro is a different manner, he could want to kill Zoro and still enjoy the fight.
Zabazab
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Julius was not a random mook wanting to kill Reid, you literally cannot use that fight to say how Reid would usually act, when he went off and slaughtered likely hundreds of thousands, maybe millions for whatever reason, and showed zero mercy.
Reid is going to spot Zoro from 4km away, raise his chopsticks, and evaporate Zoro. In fact I still think Reid is stomping here. Zoro has little to no chance at winning because he is massively outskilled, and will be slashed down by Reid as his swordsmanship manifests the very concept of the "Sword" itself, and therefore it will slash down anything in its path, in this case Zoro and any attacks Zoro tries to use.
Reid is going to spot Zoro from 4km away, raise his chopsticks, and evaporate Zoro. In fact I still think Reid is stomping here. Zoro has little to no chance at winning because he is massively outskilled, and will be slashed down by Reid as his swordsmanship manifests the very concept of the "Sword" itself, and therefore it will slash down anything in its path, in this case Zoro and any attacks Zoro tries to use.
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Eminiteable
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I'll vote Zoro, his AP advantage is almost 500 times higher with his LS being thousands higher, any attack he uses here is going to one-shot.
His Kenbun + AP will allow him to dodge his attacks and Buso will let him resist his spatial cutting.
He also has the significant speed advantage when using Lai techniques as he could speed blitz characters with relative reaction speed to his regular techniques even while underwater where he is physically slower.
His Kenbun + AP will allow him to dodge his attacks and Buso will let him resist his spatial cutting.
He also has the significant speed advantage when using Lai techniques as he could speed blitz characters with relative reaction speed to his regular techniques even while underwater where he is physically slower.
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- #139
I think it was already covered that Reid can still cut through any spatial resistance that Zoro has
Can you explain this ability further? Something to note is that peak wilhelm got strong enough to blitz kurgan who had the exact same stats when faced with danger and Reid scales above that. All swordsmen get stronger when faced with stronger opponents and get even better when on the verge of death, pretty similar to how Zoro works in OP
Fezzih_007
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So? How that don't matter? Zoro can still achive this wincon, you argument don't disproves that he can't. Just saying "If he fails to grab Reid" is not a counter argument because he can succeed in doing do.
Eminiteable
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I never saw that, would be useful to see the comment covering that please.
Zoro sheathes his aword, moves at blitzing speed unsheathing it and cutting his opponent only to re-sheathe it after completing the move.
It's a blitzing technique that he has consistently blitzed opponent's on his level and even those with reaction/combat speed FTE compared to Zoro.
The specific example for this key is when he was forced to fight underwater against a Fish-Man who on land was able to react to Zoro's techniques. It's stated and shown that underwater fishmen are faster while humans are slower yet Zoro's lai technique still blitzed him underwater.
It's not the same as him simply growing stronger/faster than his opponent after fighting them for a while.
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Fezzih_007
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Techinically, we agree that Reid could still cut Zoro due to his cutting time hax, not his spartial manipulation.
Fezzih_007
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We don't really talked about It, but Reid can also cut time stop, so he can still duraneg Zoro.
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Understandable I would argue that this can be countered by Reid too, Ram as a normal teenager could dodge Garfiels attacks which if you highball is a 130x speed difference even if you lowball there would be a significant speed difference and Reid is even more talented than that and of course we also have the peak wilhelm feat
Fezzih_007
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Are you really using this feat again, even trought that's as agreed to be a outlier from a staff member, and is not even is up to the site rules?
Zabazab
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Don't use that dreaded number
You can just say Reid gets an amp from facing Zoro, and then still has the skill to deal with far faster opponents like Ram does.
Reid is most likely to counterattack rather than block, which would slash down Zoro's attack due to concept hax.
Dodging for long will be difficult due to the amp Reid gets from facing a stronger opponent, Reid also resists precog but not telepathy. He has concept hax on top of space-time hax so dura neg should still work.
Reid can greatly increase his perception speed while fighting 1v1 to the degree that everything appears slow-motion and everything but the opponent vanishes from view.
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Tbh as far as I'm gathering he's only been shown to cut through the concept of sound and light, which Zoro doesn't use.
Eminiteable
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Kenbunshoku would tell Zoro exactly what he will do so it doesn't really matter if he blocks or counter attacks.
He doesn't resist the type of precognition from Kenbunshoku Haki.
Does it have any better feats or is that it? Because I don't see how slowing down his perception to the point things move in slow motion let's him deal with something with the blitz level of Zoro's lai techniques.
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Also Zoro has some degree and experience with similar abilities. Goken does the same shit (Minus the concept slashing which should just be conceptual NPI imo.) and Zoro's works on all of his attacks.
Zabazab
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That's a misinterpretation of his concept hax- his swordsmanship manifests the very concept of what a "Sword" is.
A "Sword" is a weapon that slashes things down, and so the Heavenly Sword slashes down everything that exists for eternity:
Does Zoro resist both types of Reid's precog? It might turn into a dodging match.
It's that, combined with the initial speed amp, combined with his ability to handle far faster fighters through skill.
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That should be reflected on his profile then again Reid's profile seems to have been rushed when it was made.
Fezzih_007
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Did this get accepted? I don't remember.
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Reid's pofile has existed since before there was even official art for him.
The arc he appeared in wasn't fully translated when it was made, heck I still have yet to read those last few arc 6 chapters, this concept of a sword thing, was from those last ones
Eminiteable
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He doesn't "resist" any form of precognition.
That's fair, when it comes to Zoro he has also shown the ability to handle opponent's that move FTE compared to him through sheer skill as well:
And when it comes to his lai techniques they have a few more impressive feats:
- When he fought Bartholomew Kuma, an opponent who had a significant speed advantage over him (Plus his Pad cannons and lasers a very significant attack speed advantage) and was capable of repelling any of Zoro's attacks with his fruit, Kuma still felt the need to evade Zoro's lai techniques using his "teleportation" whenever he anticipated them. However, the moment when he didn't dodge, Zoro swiftly blitzed and cut him. This feat was accomplished before the timeskip, and over the course of two years, Zoro improved each of his old techniques to a higher level.
- Against King, who compared to Zoro can move FTE when he turns off his flames, was speed-blitzed when Zoro used his lai technique.
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Fezzih_007
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Zoro can Dodge that with faster reaction speed and Haki Kenbun. If Reid try to attack the attack, Zoro gonna Dodge to the side, and use Onigiri.
In the page says:
So according with the page, Reid will only get faster If his on the verge of death. Problemy with this is Reid gonna die in the first blow, so he won't be able to get injured enough, so he can get faster enough to dodge Zoro.
He doesn't resist the type of precognition from Kenbunshoku Haki.²
Yes.
Not gonna help him much, since It just give him a faster time to think, is not gonna help much against a speed amp.
I don't remember now.
What initial speed amp?
And Reid don't exactly have a feat from dealing with faster opponents, since the Ram thing is a outlier. Or there's other feat i missing? Because i can't find It, and i would be Glad If you put It here.
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^^^
Otherwise every Kenbunshoku Haki user would have layered resistance and negation to precognition. Which isn't the case as we know outside of Shanks
Fezzih_007
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Ehhhhh i think i gonna vote Zoro due to his precognition and faster reaction speed.
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