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King of Hell vs The Blue Lightning of Vollachia (Roronoa Zoro vs Cecilus Segmund)

Zoro cut Ryuma's Arrow Notch Slash with Dragon Blaze, which was done BEFORE said attack hit him. He didn't match the precision of his attack in that instance.

Zoros Shishi Sonon only matched Ryuma's thrusting attack iirc.
Ohh it wasn't shishi sonson (still using a similar concept tho against it)
〝伝説の侍〟の本気を引き出し、打ち勝った剣技『一刀流 〝飛竜火焔〟』

迷い込んでしまった巨大海賊船「スリラーバーク」では、ワノ国の〝伝説の侍〟リューマのゾンビと遭遇。生前のリューマはゾロと同じく豪剣の男で、これも運命か、両者はひかれあうように対峙することになります。互いに死力を尽くした激闘の末に、高所から飛び降り、その勢いと速さを活かして斬り抜く技で、相手の得意技を封じ勝利。

Ittoryu "Hiryu Kaen," a sword technique that drew out the true spirit of the "legendary samurai" and overcame him.

On the giant pirate ship "Thriller Bark," Zoro wandered into the ship and encountered a zombie of Ryuma, the legendary samurai of Wanokuni. Like Zoro, Ryuma was a man of great swordsmanship, and as fate would have it, the two men find themselves drawn to each other. After a fierce battle in which both sides exerted deadly force against each other, Zoro jumped down from a height and used his momentum and speed to slice through the zombie, blocking his opponent's signature move and winning the fight.
 
The how part isnt even relevant.
I'm just stating Zoro's dodging feats, it's pretty relevant to the thread itself.
Anyways, Reinhard has run through multiple kilometres in a rainstorm while being ordered not to let a single drop hit him or the letter he was carrying.
Expect the issue is that the size of the storm is never stated. Not all storms are multiple kilometres, especially for something that explicitly came from only 11 directions.
Even if you aren't convinced of Cecilus being able to dodge omnidirectional attacks.
That's not what i'm getting at. Dodging omnidirectional is fine, but it's to the extent that I question.
the Reinhard version of the feat absolutely is able to do so.
Scan?
Current statements scale him to Cecilus so Cecilus also has the backing of that feat now
Also his perception amp is atleast 100x in his own words
I'll need a scan for that too.
Going for precision cuts and going for the level of unquantifiable precision for these "delayed cuts" are two very separate things.
They both use Goken for their precision. And Zoro's is so great he can literally negate durability so false.
I never said they weren't precise, I'm saying Zoro doesn't go for that particular level of effect with his slashes, in character.
And I'm disagreeing there. He utilizes Goken all the time, and against another skilled swordsman like Celi he'll be busting out Goken.
Brook's slashes are routinely attributed to his absurd speed what?
That wasn't even a Brook attack. He had his shadow but that doesn't mean all his moves were based on Brook or that he couldn't make improvements. Brook has never used that move Ryuma did.
That's the main purpose of the technique, the fact it can cut you so fast you can't react to it in time.
Again this is never stated.
Zoro cut Ryuma's Arrow Notch Slash with Dragon Blaze, which was done BEFORE said attack hit him. He didn't match the precision of his attack in that instance.
He literally matched Ryuma in skill to the point where Ryuma gave him his sword.
This. Obviously this. Why would it ever mean anything else?
Because there are dozens of other ways and furthermore it only came at him from 11 directions. Hardly omnidirectional.
It wasn't raining then, the scan is him (as an adult) saying he can dodge rain.
So different feat?
Doing what you are suggesting would never be considered an impressive feat when talking about anyone but low tiers in the verse.
Failing to see how that's hardly relevant or even an argument.
Nor would it be used as a comparison for attacks coming at him from all directions like these.
It's not all directions. It's explicitly stated to be 11 directions, and ya know not even a real rainstorm.
It's comparable to Reinhard running through the rain to deliver a letter and not getting himself or it wet at all. So, yes, it actually is very clear how it happens.
Scan please.
 
I definitely don't think this is a stomp lol 💀

But I'll vote Ceci now too fra
Actually, I'll add to this because besides the skill difference Cecilus' power null is potentially a huge factor as well since he can cut down any attack Zoro throws at him a likely prevent him from using that attack again at all. It would not be long until he only has pure melee. So maybe it is a stomp 💀
 
Wanked af profiles with just manipulated texts are the worst to argue against... Its just their own biases vs the character their facing

what would happen with a fate vs rezero debate? 🙉
 
Shen-Wulong-2.png

China-Man is folding both these clowns.
 
Satella, I think, or someone else, has tried to make Fate matchups for some reason. There's not really any way for ReZero characters to even affect most of them.
ayy you guys just aren't wanking enough... Make the concept layered or maybe even infinite layered and gg you have a chance... Probably
 
Because there are dozens of other ways and furthermore it only came at him from 11 directions.
You have misunderstood, my apologies.

The 12 projectiles are homing attacks, the difficulty of dodging them is compared to dodging rain or sand in a storm. Also Cecilus was 11 when he did this.

The second feat is Cecilus saying he can dodge rain. It has been hammered in that anything Cecilus says he can do, he can in fact do.

The third feat is his skill in this key being comparable to Reinhard's, who ran through a rainstorm while avoiding every raindrop.
Q: What was the most bothersome chore Felt has made Reinhard do?

The worst was when she told him to deliver a letter without letting the rain fall on it. "Not only did I not let the letter get rained on, I've returned after having avoided all the raindrops myself." –Felt's Birthday Q&A
 
The second feat is Cecilus saying he can dodge rain. It has been hammered in that anything Cecilus says he can do, he can in fact do.
but hasn't yet achieved that... Only achieved the cutting clouds technique... That's what the statement basically says
 
You have misunderstood, my apologies.
Ah it's all good. Thank you for the explanation.
The 12 projectiles are homing attacks, the difficulty of dodging them is compared to dodging rain or sans in a storm. Also Cecilus was 11 when he did this.
Ah I see, so it's not exactly a 1:1 thing but more so support for the other feats?
The second feat is Cecilus saying he can dodge rain. It has been hammered in that anything Cecilus says he can do, he can in fact do.
I see. I still am unsure about how legitimate it is, not in the sense of it being literal but in the sense that we have no idea on the size of the storm.
The third feat is his skill in this key being comparable to Reinhard's, who ran through a rainstorm while avoiding every raindrop.
I mean doesn't he have some type of blessing that makes shit that travels near him automatically miss?
 
but hasn't yet achieved that... Only achieved the cutting clouds... That's what the statement Basically says
Actually the statement says "I can even dodge the rain if I really try, y'know."

Cecilus being able to do whatever he says he can do:
Why was he able to do it? He could do it simply because he could, he would make all those who saw him believe so.

Disregarding various logical and general notions, Cecilus’s action of fleeing to the sky was an outrage against common sense. Those who witnessed it might have called it a miracle, but for Cecilus, this was only the beginning, nothing more than a handful of the miracles that arrived to color the world at various moments each and every day.
Even so, the reason he could not remember the memories from those ten years, was none other than because his body and mind mutually influenced each other.

Just as how Cecilus’s body would be able to implement whatever he believed possible, his mind would have no choice but to regress in tandem if his body had certifiably shrunk. ――It was probably something like that.
(This isn't him talking out of his own ass btw, he's aware of his limits like his own mortality as well as his inferiority to certain other swordsmen)
 
Actually the statement says "I can even dodge the rain if I really try, y'know."
Yee but that's just him coping
ed16f186d619307c4e8ec709c5335d67.png

He still haven't showed to be able to do it, he belives in everything he says now because if he doesn't, it would be impossible to otherwise
 
He proves himself right by doing one of the things Arakiya said he cannot do.
that doesn't matter... He even basically agreed that he currently can't do it

I mean... I believe I can become the strongest human but in my current state I'm not... 🙈

but fr... If I really tried... I can do it but how you do it is by first transcending ones mind by using your body, basically having insane faith and your body adapts to that faith in reality or reality adapts to your faith... Yep I know, I'm a pro master 😎👍 you're welcome, this information is invaluable
 
that doesn't matter... He even basically agreed that he currently can't do it
Erm, "I can even dodge the rain if I really try, y'know."

Q: What was the most bothersome chore Felt has made Reinhard do?

The worst was when she told him to deliver a letter without letting the rain fall on it. "Not only did I not let the letter get rained on, I've returned after having avoided all the raindrops myself." –Felt's Birthday Q&A
 
That wasn't even a Brook attack.
The attack Ryuma used there was explicitly The same attack Brook uses. With the only difference being he used the back of the blade instead of the front.

Brook even chastises Ryuma for using that technique without knowing its history. It’s very much his own move.
They both use Goken for their precision. And Zoro's is so great he can literally negate durability so false.
prove he has Goken. Brook performed the same feat against a general zombie without it.

He literally matched Ryuma in skill to the point where Ryuma gave him his sword.
I never said he wasn’t skilled enough to match Ryuma, not totally sure why you’re responding to that comment. I was just correcting monkey that he didn’t match the precision of that particular technique, which he didn’t.

Again this is never stated.
The technique is explicitly shown fast enough that the user can walk past the opponent and cut them before the latter even realizes they’ve drawn their sword. I’m confused what you mean, that’s what we’re shown in the panel itself.

Brook used a similar technique to rapidly close the distance and cut a dangerous opponent before they could perceive him and counter.
 
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prove he has Goken. Brook performed the same feat against a general zombie without it.
Bet.

Information Analysis (Capable of sensing the "Breath" of all things, allowing him to know the trajectory of something's movements before it happens as well as it's location despite not being visible to him. By doing so he can determine the speed, power and angle of where he should cut at allowing him to cut objects he otherwise couldn't with strength alone), Analytical Prediction (Through sensing the breath of someone or an object he can know the trajectory of their actions before it happens), Extrasensory Perception (Through sensing the breath of someone or an object he can know their location despite not being visible to him), Limited Durability Negation (Through sensing the "Breath" of their desired target they're able to cut objects or people they otherwise couldn't through power alone. It's effectiveness begins to lessen against objects or opponent's with durability that far exceeds the limit of this ability)
 
Is this now reverse technique gaslighting or something?
No, you know what that one's my bad. I was distracted. Sorry about that.

But nonetheless, looking at the full quote in context it's very clear he believes he can do it. So it seems likely to me that what he's admitting here is simply that he hasn't tried it yet at this point.

Though that doesn't matter because in the current key he is far superior to when he made this statement, and when he performed a comparable feat, and he is comparable to Reinhard who actually did it.
 
No, you know what that one's my bad. I was distracted. Sorry about that.

But nonetheless, looking at the full quote in context it's very clear he believes he can do it. So it seems likely to me that what he's admitting here is simply that he hasn't tried it yet at this point.

Though that doesn't matter because in the current key he is far superior to when he made this statement, and when he performed a comparable feat, and he is comparable to Reinhard who actually did it.
zoro is comparable to luffy in skills, zoro has toon force now... He'll just laugh off the concept attack 😴
 
C'mon Gin.

I meant specifically Zombie Ryuma, someone who has an entirely different skillset than alive Ryuma, who DOES have it.

Zombie Ryuma doesn't inherit any of the skill of his human body, only the enhanced strength of the corpse. His skills are still, ultimately, taken from the shadow’s owner like any other zombie.
 
Zombie Ryuma doesn't inherit any of the skill of his human body, only the enhanced strength of the corpse. His skills are still, ultimately, taken from the shadow’s owner like any other zombie.
He has the same skill, but not the same skillset.
Because of the shadow of Brook, his swordsmanship when he engaged Zoro was very different from that of before his death.
it would be like zoro using axes or something similar kinda

And the corpse isn't using his full strength
He shows a physical ability that far surpasses that of the owner of the shadow. He showed a glimpse of the power of the undefeated great swordsman!

He also blocked a goken attack implying he's able to do it as well in zombie form
 
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