Mira Yoo vs Garou

[Maitreya12]

Mira has also dealt with internal type attacks before too like against Mujin’s bell of all evils and against the deer who would literally spawn plants from within her body.

 

[Recon1511]

Is this gonna turn into a skill debate? Anyway, unless you are arguing some insanely advanced skill difference Garou should be able to land at least one of his like 3-4 dura neg techniques

 

[azontr]

Hah. Skill debates. Never heard of em'.

 

[Phoenks]

This is assuming she gets hit. As seen above, she went toe to toe with Mujin evenly for a while. The same Mujin who tore Satan a new asshole both times they've fought each other. Mira's mindset in a fight at this point is about hitting the opponent while avoiding getting hit. She's been a glass cannon character ever since she fought Deer and her fighting style shows.

Look, I agree that GoH is skilled, and I know it is. But again, me and Azontr had a debate regarding Garou VS Daewi's skills and agreed the result to be inconclusive. I don't really want to do that all over again.

Once you get to characters on this caliber of skill you start having wildly unquantifiable feats that aren't really measurable against each other. Like how do you measure Garou's ability to autonomously (without conscious thought) instant copy, instant learn techniques he read about years ago, combine techniques, and predict opponents to something like Mira fighting a guy who can literally read minds, or being more skilled than people who can retrocog an entire fight from looking at a hole in the ground?

It's just not really comparable, but they are clear indications that they're both extremely skilled and probably among the same caliber. Mira's done things Garou can't do. Garou's done things Mira can't do.

So let me ask you this, do you also think peak Daewi couldn't land a single hit on this Mira? If you don't believe that, then saying Garou can't even hit her isn't really being fair to him.

And, it doesn't even have to be a solid hit. A single graze from Garou's technique would envelope her internals in shockwaves that would turn her bones into dust and impact her organs directly. It's a one-hit KO.

Mira has also dealt with internal type attacks before too like against Mujin’s bell of all evils and against the deer who would literally spawn plants from within her body.

That's not at all the same thing as vibrations that shatter every bone in your body from a graze. She'd end up incapacitated at best without some kind of instant regeneration. And it's not like Garou couldn't just keep those kind of punches going afterwards.

 

[Maitreya12]

That's not at all the same thing as vibrations that shatter every bone in your body from a graze. She'd end up incapacitated at best without some kind of instant regeneration. And it's not like Garou couldn't just keep those kind of punches going afterwards.

The vibrations only do that much damage because per Garou’s words “you can’t train your internal organs.” But agains someone with strengthened organs and a strengthened internal body, like Mira Yoo for example, then the vibrations aren’t going to do as much.

 

[Phoenks]

The vibrations only do that much damage because per Garou’s words “you can’t train your internal organs.” But agains someone with strengthened organs and a strengthened internal body, like Mira Yoo for example, then the vibrations aren’t going to do as much.

That's not the same technique as the vibration one. You're talking about Fa Jin which targets internal organs.

I'm talking about Cross Dragon Fang Slayer Fist/Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist, which are straight-up dura negation via vibrations, not even just attacking internal organs.

However, he can use these techniques in unison with one another via Monster Calamity Fist which composites them together.

Also, having "trained internal organs" is cool but has she ever been punched directly in the heart or the brain? If not then you can't just assume she'd be fine, especially when it's not even just normal brunt force, it's dura neg shockwaves that can shred apart your bones in an instant.

It's also useful to mention that these shockwaves affect pretty much any solid material, and can extend out beyond just the body, such as when he turned the rocks and pebbles around him into dust. So, it's quite possible that Garou can also deconstruct Mira's weapons if they don't have a specific resistance to that.

That'd be a pretty hard counter.

 

[azontr]

Just FYI I only really agreed to call the debate an inconclusive because we were going in circles and I was tired from an offsite debate lol, not because I actually believed Garou was at all a comparably or more skilled fighter than Daewi (or Mira). Cause he ain't.

If people think Mira is more skilled than Garou to the point she can dance around him that's their own decision to make. Bringing up a past debate isn't a valid argument.

If anything, I'd agree that she just dodges all his attacks then slices his head off with regen neg.

 

[Phoenks]

Just FYI I only really agreed to call the debate an inconclusive because we were going in circles lol, not because I actually believed Garou was at all a comparably or more skilled fighter than Daewi (or Mira). Cause he ain't.

If people think Mira is more skilled than Garou to the point she can dance around him that's their own decision to make. Bringing up a past debate isn't a valid argument.

Once you get to characters on this caliber of skill you start having wildly unquantifiable feats that aren't really measurable against each other. Like how do you measure Garou's ability to autonomously (without conscious thought) instant copy, instant learn techniques he read about years ago, combine techniques, and predict opponents to something like Mira fighting a guy who can literally read minds, or being more skilled than people who can retrocog an entire fight from looking at a hole in the ground?

The whole reason we went back in circles is because there's not really a way to compare the feats in both series. Eventually agreeing on inconclusive because, the debate itself was inconclusive. Now, yeah you can say you agree Daewi is more skilled, but it's ultimately not really objectively quantifiable imo.

If we break it down into categories, here's what I'd currently say about the two and who takes each one. I don't know much about Mira so this probably doesn't matter.

Prediction: I'd guess Mira based on other GoH but her profile doesn't seem to do it justice. It just lists it.

Analysis: Mira. Seems that Greed is an analysis ability that instantly gauges an opponent.

Instincts: Garou has many feats of unconscious action that are above anything I've seen in GoH. Such as learning techniques that only exist in his memory, or instantly replicating the technique of Bang the moment he used it against him.

Techniques: I'd guess Garou since most martial arts in OPM tend to be pretty distinct and they come with a plethora of their own abilities and quirks.

Replication: I'd probably give that to Garou? I can't find anything for Mira's power mimicry. Is it even skill-based?

Experience: Probably Mira. I'd guess she's been up against more skilled and more versatile people than Garou has.

Adaptability: I'd probably give this to Garou mostly because I don't know much about Mira's adaptability. Someone feel free to explain.

Honestly take with a grain of salt though. I don't know much about Mira. Feel free to explain how she fairs in each of those categories I guess.

 

[Kachon123]

Going with Garou here. He can use his dura neg vibrations from a range. No level of skill is going to help her dodge this unless she's faster, which is pretty much impossible due to Garou's whole "copy your stats and grow exponentially" gimmick as well as his portal spam.

Even outside of his vibration/shockwave attacks, his NF explosions have explosions relative in size to Jupiter, which would be pretty impossible for her to dodge with equal, or less speed unless she has teleportation.

 

[Recon1511]

Bump?

 

[Epiccheev]

Garou would never hit a milf

 

[Phoenks]

Voting Garou for my and Kachon's reasons.

Even if you seriously think she is so skilled he can't hit her, which I've yet to seen reasons why that would be the case...

He doesn't even need to hit her since his techniques have some range and AoE attached to them.

 

[Recon1511]

Well if no one else is gonna add anything I'm voting Garou too

 

[Phoenks]

Bp

 

[Phoenks]

bump

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Bump.

 

[Phoenks]

Bump.

Do you have no arguments for Mira?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I mean the default argument would be "how would Garou get around planetary Greed?" But the answer for that is probably portal creation.

Just wanna say that if Greed touches any part of his body even by a little, it would absorb a significant portion of his power. Same happened with Ilpyo after fighting Jegal. Though I'm pretty sure Garou can just get back to that power level in a second or two.

 

[Phoenks]

I mean the default argument would be "how would Garou get around planetary Greed?" But the answer for that is probably portal creation.

Just wanna say that if Greed touches any part of his body even by a little, it would absorb a significant portion of his power. Same happened with Ilpyo after fighting Jegal. Though I'm pretty sure Garou can just get back to that power level in a second or two.

You kind of answered yourself on both points, yeah, lol.

With speed equal he can just teleport potentially interplanetary distances to avoid being hit. And if he's grazed and power is absorbed then he just gains it back via copy.

Can Greed be destroyed? Like what if he fired a gamma ray at it?

 

[DavidTPPM]

And if he's grazed and power is absorbed then he just gains it back via copy.

Can Garou fight like, with a half of his soul missing? Because Tam absorbs souls not just power. Hojosa says Jegal absorbed his soul to the point where he almost lost his ego when he fought Ilpyo, then destroyed it into tiny pieces at the end of the arc.
So if Garou gets as much as grazed by Tam/Greed his soul gets split in half. Worst case scenario she takes Gods power while she's at it.

Can Greed be destroyed? Like what if he fired a gamma ray at it?

With a physical attack probably. But it most likely just eats up any energy based attacks and attacking it physically with your body puts you at risk of getting eaten up.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Anyway here are some thoughts.
Mira should definitely be more skilled. Even if you agreed Daewi vs Garou is inconclusive, Mira was whooping Mujin for a good time until he adapted with a copied move from Mori. Same Mujin was constantly making Daewi looking like a fool, so Mira should lowkey be significantly more skilled in battle.

She can neutralize any hax with wifi power stealing (wifi automatically analyzes the opponent and finds abilities to counter them without Mira herself doing anything) and a close range fight is a very bad idea for Garou since she can just absorb his power and soul if they touch. So Garou will have to stay a planetary distance away from her.

A long range battle is kinda weird because both of them are close range fighters. It doesn't really look like it would go anywhere because Mira doesn't have any real long distance win cons, but anything Garou tries for long range should either get eaten by Tam or countered by wifi. I can see Garou try to sneak attack her with a portal, but Mira would just predict that and sense where he's coming from (Mira fought most of her late fights completely blind so blind spots wouldn't be an issue), which would again end with Garou getting absorbed by Greed.

So yeah, it looks like either Mira wins due to hax and skill or it's an incon because Garou won't let her get close. And since the latter doesn't seem in character for Garou at all, I vote Mira.

 

[Phoenks]

With a physical attack probably. But it most likely just eats up any energy based attacks and attacking it physically with your body puts you at risk of getting eaten up.

If Greed can be destroyed by physical attacks what stops Garou from just punching it and causing some intergalactic shockwave that destroys the entire thing?

 

[DavidTPPM]

If Greed can be destroyed by physical attacks what stops Garou from just punching it and causing some intergalactic shockwave that destroys the entire thing?

Tam is kinda complicated to explain ngl. The only time we actually see it destroyed is by Mujin but Mujin is literally immune to any 3D hax shown in the series. He no sold complete existence erasure, was completely unaffected by subatomic deconstruction, tanked his own soul deconstruction, broke through time stop, negated regeneration, was unaffected by sealing, etc etc. So it's more so that Mujin resisted the absorption and blasted through it. This is noted on his wiki profile

Absorption, Power Absorption, Soul Manipulation & Power Nullification (Resisted Mira's attempt at absorbing him with Greed)

So it IS possible to destroy it if you have resistance to it. But if you don't, then it should absorb literally everything.
And it has shown to absorb basically everything.
Bodies, souls/spirits, energy, and even abstract things like the taboo. If I'm understanding it properly. Furthermore, Mira is not limited to releasing Tam from her body separately, it's literally within her body so she can just grab, punch, or just touch Garou in any way in general in order to absorb his soul and powers and any attack Garou fires at her should hypothetically just get absorbed.

 

[Phoenks]

I was also going to go on about portals but Garou doesn't have portals in this key. He hasn't copied Blast.

Can Garou fight like, with a half of his soul missing? Because Tam absorbs souls not just power. Hojosa says Jegal absorbed his soul to the point where he almost lost his ego when he fought Ilpyo, then destroyed it into tiny pieces at the end of the arc.

Sir Ovens said that a graze doesn't really affect the soul, but yes, Garou should be able to continue with at least a little bit of his soul destroyed since he was able to time travel as just a soul after his body was reduced to salt.

Bodies, souls/spirits, energy, and even abstract things like the taboo. If I'm understanding it properly. Furthermore, Mira is not limited to releasing Tam from her body separately, it's literally within her body so she can just grab, punch, or just touch Garou in any way in general in order to absorb his soul and powers and any attack Garou fires at her should hypothetically just get absorbed.

How long does this absorption take?

Garou only needs one graze and Mira is dead from his dura neg techniques.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sir Ovens said that a graze doesn't really affect the soul, but yes, Garou should be able to continue with at least a little bit of his soul destroyed since he was able to time travel as just a soul after his body was reduced to salt.

Was he able to time travel? Didn't only Saitama time travel? Either way, how does this exactly prove he can survive with his soul split in half? Existing as a soul ≠ living with a destroyed soul. Also there's the ego suppression or whatever.

How long does this absorption take?

It's really fast. When Jegal fought Ilpyo, he managed to absorb half of Hojosas power before Ilpyo even noticed what's happening. And he supposedly only took half because Ilpyos glove was in the way. This is very much relevant because Ilpyo was completely blitzing Jegal here. It's also shown pretty fast on other occasions such as when R uses it to absorb Kings energy. So as long as Tam interacts with the target it should absorb at least about a half of their power and soul before they can even realize it

Garou only needs one graze and Mira is dead from his dura neg techniques.

Does he? Which dura neg abilities are you exactly referring to? Also, Mira has goofyahh endurance (she has a giant hole in her chest and a missing leg, yet still manged to destroy Mujins weapons and successfully attack him) and likely regeneration from wifi (she should have access to Giju Moons BP). Furthermore it would have to be direct "graze" because hitting something like her mechanical arm, swords, or Tam with an attack that destroys organs won't work since those things obviously don't have any organs and aren't even really biological.

 

[Phoenks]

It's really fast. When Jegal fought Ilpyo, he managed to absorb half of Hojosas power before Ilpyo even noticed what's happening. And he supposedly only took half because Ilpyos glove was in the way. This is very much relevant because Ilpyo was completely blitzing Jegal here. It's also shown pretty fast on other occasions such as when R uses it to absorb Kings energy. So as long as Tam interacts with the target it should absorb at least about a half of their power and soul before they can even realize it

I was referring to the soul absorption. I don't see any soul absorption here? Also that seems to require extensive contact.

Power absorption doesn't matter since Garou can continuously mimic Mira's power and exceed it to regain his strength.

Does he? Which dura neg abilities are you exactly referring to? Also, Mira has goofyahh endurance (she has a giant hole in her chest and a missing leg, yet still manged to destroy Mujins weapons and successfully attack him) and likely regeneration from wifi (she should have access to Giju Moons BP). Furthermore it would have to be direct "graze" because hitting something like her mechanical arm, swords, or Tam with an attack that destroys organs won't work since those things obviously don't have any organs and aren't even really biological.

Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist which has been integrated into his composited martial art. With a hit, the vibrations will encompass your entire body and crumble your bones to dust. The mechanical pieces likely won't matter as it seemingly destroys anything solid. Even nearby debris was being turned into powder. With just a graze he incapacitated Bang.

He can use all these martial arts simultaneously.

And yeah he can do the whole hitting her organs thing too.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I was referring to the soul absorption. I don't see any soul absorption here? Also that seems to require extensive contact.

The Ilpyo example is soul absorption. He doesn't just absorb his power, he absorbs Hojosas entire soul out of his body. Refer to this scan. So yeah, it scales greatly above the user in speed.

Power absorption doesn't matter since Garou can continuously mimic Mira's power and exceed it to regain his strength.

Does it? Garous mimicry isn't instantaneous. Also, does Garou need to see Mira? Because if so, Tam could just chomp him up which would block his vision and stop him from mimicking her power.

With just a graze he incapacitated Bang.

I mean, this won't take Mira down tho. It didn't do any vital damage or any visible outside damage. Mira could fight with a whole in her chest and a missing leg. A direct hit could be fatal but a graze is definitely not taking her down. Mira also tanked vibrations from diamond sutra so she should have some level of resistance to vibration manipulation. These vibrations completely obliterated A city to dust and deconstructed Moris armor.

 

[Phoenks]

The Ilpyo example is soul absorption. He doesn't just absorb his power, he absorbs Hojosas entire soul out of his body. Refer to this scan. So yeah, it scales greatly above the user in speed.

I don't really get a sense for the speed here.

Does it? Garous mimicry isn't instantaneous

It is pretty damn close to being instant. In the Saitama fight he was just auto-copying his strength. And he doesn't even need to mimic her anyway. He has his own reactive growth.

Because if so, Tam could just chomp him up which would block his vision and stop him from mimicking her power.

I do not think he needs to see? He can sense energies.

I mean, this won't take Mira down tho. It didn't do any vital damage or any visible outside damage. Mira could fight with a whole in her chest and a missing leg. A direct hit could be fatal but a graze is definitely not taking her down. Mira also tanked vibrations from diamond sutra so she should have some level of resistance to vibration manipulation. These vibrations completely obliterated A city to dust and deconstructed Moris armor.

It does vital, internal damage by breaking his bones. He was unable to stand after that happened. It's not the equivalent of fighting with a hole in her chest or a missing leg. She'd have to be swinging her sword with potentially multiple fractures in her arm. Also, it's not like Garou can pile on these grazes.

Every single graze would reduce her efficiency further. It can build up until she's unable to fight. And just one good hit, she's out for the count.

Also, that SS you showed isn't even vibrations that looks like a normal air-burst shockwave. Going to need to see further evidence of that.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't really get a sense for the speed here.

Basically here's what happens: Jegals Tam is on his chest. Ilpyo (who's MUCH MUCH faster than Jegal) punches him in the chest and Tam bit him. Then before Ilpyo can remove his hand from Jegals chest, Tam already absorbs half of Hojosas soul just from touching his fist. Basically, it blitzes someone much faster than the user.

It is pretty damn close to being instant. In the Saitama fight he was just auto-copying his strength. And he doesn't even need to mimic her anyway. He has his own reactive growth.

Actually, he can't. Idk why I didn't bring this up earlier. What Tam absorbs from the opponent the opponent can no longer use. This is even in her profile. It's not like piracy but like actual theft.

I do not think he needs to see? He can sense energies.

Well he needed to see Saitama go all out iirc. So he can't copy your power if you're not using it at the very least. So, if Mira just didn't attack him while she absorbed his power he would have nothing to copy and would just shrivel up and die like the King.

It does vital, internal damage by breaking his bones. He was unable to stand after that happened. It's not the equivalent of fighting with a hole in her chest or a missing leg. She'd have to be swinging her sword with potentially multiple fractures in her arm. Also, it's not like Garou can pile on these grazes.

Every single graze would reduce her efficiency further. It can build up until she's unable to fight. And just one good hit, she's out for the count.

I'm stupid, I meant to say fatal. And speaking of fractures, Mira did exactly that against Deer. She had a fractured arm with a bone sticking out of it and still fought (small gore warning because bones sticking out of bodies are obviously kinda disgusting). Also since I'm on this, it looks like it actually healed up in few panels after she got wifi. So fractures shouldn't be an issue and will probably get healed up pretty quickly.
And yeah Garou can definitely pile them up assuming he's skilled enough, but each hit risks his soul getting eaten up. And Garou has broken regeneration right? Because absorbing his power will give Mira his level of regeneration as well. So realistically speaking, Garou grazing Mira can most definitely do more damage to Garou than to Mira.

Also, that SS you showed isn't even vibrations that looks like a normal air-burst shockwave. Going to need to see further evidence of that.

Eeeh ngl I'm lazy to search for it, isn't the fact that the wiki classifies the attack on Mujins profile as vibration manipulation enough?

Vibration Manipulation & Sound Manipulation (The Bell of Agonies can send shockwaves that travel through a person, harming them from inside[14]),

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bump

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Voting Mira due to previously stated reasons, but it's really close. Could see myself also voting for Garou.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bump

 

[Danny33wise]

Mira fra

 

[DavidTPPM]

So far (if I'm counting the votes correctly which I'm probably not) the votes should go like this

Mira: Danny, David, Serlock, Azontr, Memonto Mori(?), Zeinx (?)

Garou: Recon, Kachon123, Phoenks(?)

First 2 (?) are there because idk if goofy comments like "Mira my glorious queen wins" and "Mira>>>" with nothing else count as a valid vote .
For Phoenks he voted for Garou by then we had a whole debate and he kidna stopped replying during and idk if he just lost interest or agrees with my points.
So Mira lacks 0-2 votes while Garou lacks 4, maybe 5 votes (unless I missed some )

 

[Phoenks]

Actually, he can't. Idk why I didn't bring this up earlier. What Tam absorbs from the opponent the opponent can no longer use. This is even in her profile. It's not like piracy but like actual theft.

Can you show it being able to remove and steal someone's ability with nothing but a touch.

Well he needed to see Saitama go all out iirc. So he can't copy your power if you're not using it at the very least. So, if Mira just didn't attack him while she absorbed his power he would have nothing to copy and would just shrivel up and die like the King.

Does Greed also have AP? He could copy that too.

And yeah Garou can definitely pile them up assuming he's skilled enough, but each hit risks his soul getting eaten up. And Garou has broken regeneration right? Because absorbing his power will give Mira his level of regeneration as well. So realistically speaking, Garou grazing Mira can most definitely do more damage to Garou than to Mira.

I don't really agree with that at all. They're equal speed. He can pile on those grazes in CQC nearly instantly and again, a single solid hit is going to incap her lol. Not to mention him just attacking her internals.

Also Garou can use his Shockwaves from a distance and spawn them on you. This has been shown in the thread before. If he does that to Mira she's completely done.

Eeeh ngl I'm lazy to search for it, isn't the fact that the wiki classifies the attack on Mujins profile as vibration manipulation enough?

Doesn't seem on the same level honestly. Also, where even is the panel of her resisting those?


Honestly, just tell me what chapters of GoH I can read to see Mira in this key fighting someone. I want to see what her moveset is for myself.

 

[speedster352]

Mira fra

 

[DavidTPPM]

Can you show it being able to remove and steal someone's ability with nothing but a touch.

I already kidna did since Ilpyos borrowed power. I would like to show other occasions but after this Tam users either absorb powers off screen (like Taeks 10 different borrowed powers) or fight purely physical fighters (like Uma who's punch obliterated Byron without even touching him) who don't have special abilities for it to absorb.

Does Greed also have AP? He could copy that too.

Not that I'm aware of. Greeds absorption doesn't seem to be limited by AP or anything like that. It simply "eats" everything it touches. It's never actually used to deal physical damage, only absorb. Although it does seem to have some biting force (although I'm not sure about that either since it can "bite" people ridiculously more powerful than the user)

I don't really agree with that at all. They're equal speed. He can pile on those grazes in CQC nearly instantly and again, a single solid hit is going to incap her lol. Not to mention him just attacking her internals.

This doesn't really answer any of my arguments. Garou can't "pile up" the grazes if he can't consistently touch her, and if he does she absorbs his soul. And a single solid hit from Miras sword also one shots because she has regen neg and any touch from Tam eats his soul and powers.

Also Garou can use his Shockwaves from a distance and spawn them on you. This has been shown in the thread before. If he does that to Mira she's completely done.

Where?

Doesn't seem on the same level honestly. Also, where even is the panel of her resisting those?

? Garou was destroying debris while Mujin was destroying cities and turning anyone who got hit to soul vapors if anything Garous vibrations don't seem to be anywhere near Mujins. Didn't I already sent scans of her resisting them before? I would have sworn I did . Anyway here they are. Mira took like 5 or 6 hits from it back to back to her entire body without any significant effect.

Honestly, just tell me what chapters of GoH I can read to see Mira in this key fighting someone. I want to see what her moveset is for myself.

Sure. Here's the notable fights.
(where she gets wifi) Mira vs Deer: starts 493, ends 495 (496 technically)
Mira vs Rabbit: barely a fight, Mira stomps the second she gets Tam (late 523)
Mira vs Mujin p1 : starts 528, ends 532
Mira vs Mujin p2: starts and ends 546
Mira vs Mujin last attack: early 551

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Voting Mira FRA

 

[DavidTPPM]

Voting Mira FRA

That should be 7(9?) votes for Mira meaning the thread should enter a 24 hour grace period now (unless my math isn't mathing properly)

 

[SlendVeny]

Mira FRA