The Absolute Evil against a Blue Hedgehog (Garou VS Sonic)

[McFriesGuy075]

Sonic's teleportation is ia 6D Conceptual Energy. I don't think Garou could exactly copy that.

Said energy is also 6x abstract

 

[Omegabronic]

I kinda disappeared from the wiki for a week so sorry for the wait (I was busy af irl)

It's definitely similar but Sonic jumped around like 10x there to get to a portal.
Garou was doing that for over 500 jumps (according to the accepted calc) while fighting an opponent equal to him, across dozens of millions of meters. I'd definitely say Garou was more impressive, and becomes even more impressive with wings and portals giving him additional mobility.

Not really seeing the difference, the only difference is that they were going faster and the scene didn't stop to give focus to any of their individual movements

specially when Garou doesn't have wings in this key at all, and portals? Sonic can teleport, they won't help

don't forget, Sonic will be seeing Garou as a statue thanks to the Spin Dash, which he can also use the Homing Attack to simply keep attacking Garou continuously with the same amp that makes him see him as a statue

Honestly I didn't find anything that would indicate Sonic can do anything more impressive than Garou did against PS in the feat I sent before.

You are not seeing the profiles then, what Garou did there is really nothing special in comparison to Sonic

From what I've heard (and seen in the handful of games I played) Sonic doesn't really use teleportation in-character a lot unlike Garou who spams tf out of the portals. And if Sonic does use the teleportation, Garou would probably just copy it.

Is there any evidence that he can copy Teleportation? Or Chaos Energy for that matter?

Is there any evidence he grows that rapidly? Because Garou has his own AD which let's him cross one shot blitz tier nearly instantaneously ON TOP of the stat copying.
So Garou could spam copying to catch up and his own AD to grow beyond Sonic the whole fight if he needs to.

... have you not read the profiles at all?

Flashy is definitely not on Emerls level in general (I'm a kind of a Flashy hater so I don't think we will disagree on that lmao) but I don't really see any evidence of Emerl predicting several moves ahead of his opponents. Emerl can have better copying skills, adaptation skills, experience, moves, etc, but those are all separate skills from Analytical Prediction.

Check Sonic's for his description of AP, cuz that is what Emerl copied as well alongside his entire fighting style and moves

In one of the scans I sent Garou was dominating both Flashy and PS (who's stronger than Flashy) at once so I definitely wouldn't say that.

Which Emerl did the same against both Sonic and Shadow, until Sonic far surpassed him in the final battle and beat and even more skilled bloodlusted Emerl

And like I said this is pre-full monster pre-cosmic Garou. Garou far, FAR surpasses the level of skill he has here afterwards.

Still don't see anything on Sonic's level

Actually Flashy did have info on Garou. After TTM got hospitalized by Garou the HA became aware of him and gained basic information about Garou. He's also stated to be the most skilled in HA which involves Garous master.
To add to that, Flashy has info analysis that allows him to find out things like an opponents weight from just their footsteps.

Now of course that's not the level of information that Emerl had but given that we brought him up specifically for Analytical Prediction, I think it's more than enough to give him a huge edge.

"Huge edge" where? the information Flashy had is absurdely less compared to Emerl, he knew EVERYTHING Sonic had, period

That's all good but honestly it doesn't seem like anything Garou can't redirect. A far less skilled bang could redirect energy beams with one shot AP difference + Garou can cover his hands with gravity to avoid direct contact if necessary.

Touch a buzz saw and you will cut your hands, Garou will be physically stopped from Sonic's perspective, he won't be able to react to be able to deflect at all

I mean sure but does sonic have that's beyond Garous scope?

Yes, pretty much every important hax he has is, like Chaos Control

That is a pretty big weakness that Garou could use to his advantage tbh.

He has numerous item boxes to instantly get more rings, it isn't a weakness at all, specially when he can just blitz Garou to grab them back anyway

Besides the fact he can keep opening portals around rings until they either disappear

Sonic can follow them with Chaos Control, Portals would be useless

or he grabs them first (which should give Garou their hax right?)

No? you need to have the specific hax of being able to absorb Rings, Garou doesn't have that

it also means a 2 hit combo kinda cooks him.

... and now you are acting as if Garou can one shot Sonic because?

That's quantity but what's more important is quality. Garou has lesser quantity of moves but so far seems to have far higher quality.

Emerl has EVERY move, be it of quality or not, "Infinite" encompasses literally every single way to do something

Hell even just picking the best option out of infinite options would take infinite amount of time and Emerl doesn't even have infinite speed so I don't think he has infinite quality as well.

Emerl has no limitation on that, nor is it ever stated, don't make up weaknesses for chars that are never said

You're not understanding me.
General "skill" isn't just about knowing how to perform a move but also utilizing it.

as said above, Emerl knows every single way to do a punch as he has active capability to make infinite amount of fighting styles, and he can use any of them as he wants

I feel like an 8x/blitz amps should be manageable,

What part of "it statues people that were blitzing you" did you not get?

especially since Garous first move would be to copy Sonics reaction speed.

Show him being able to copy specifically reaction speed instead of copying the normal speed?

So Garou just has to copy the attack itself and clash with sonic instead.

He... can't copy it, i am sorry but his body is literally not built for that, specially since Sonic will blitz Garou's perception and he will be unable to even see the thing to be able to copy to begin with

Yeah like I said, Bang redirected energy beams before.

... why are you talking about Energy beams as if they were the same as a buzz saw Garou wouldn't even be able to see at all?

I mean that depends but given Sonic doesn't exactly spam esoteric haxes a lot and instead does shit like curl up in ball or punch people.

Which honestly might be all he needs to do to win here

regardless, Garou doesn't have the way to actually kill Sonic before he uses something like Ring Time and turns Garou into a bunch of Rings

Is there any evidence that Sonic can grow literally instantaneously without any sort of input forcing him to? Because if not Garou will catch up to him and after that they would just stay relative.

read the profiles, please

Well that depends because Garou has many uses for portals. He uses them to confuse the opponent creating an "unavoidable" attack as well as to sneak up on you from behind, dodge attacks, redirect attacks, etc.
Teleportation (if Sonic does end up using it) will definitely help against some of that but idk if it really helps against everything.

it is basically the portals but better, so yeah, it will take care of everything, if it doesn't? well, he only needs to thing once to stop time and beat up Garou while stopping anything he is doing

Does Sonic do that tho? Because from what I've seen in most vs threads, the only reason every Sonic match up isn't just a 6D BFR stomp is that he doesn't actually use it.

... Sonic isn't stupid, if he needs he will

Although like I said my knowledge on Sonic is limited to like 3/4 games (also technically Sonic X and the movie trilogy but those aren't canon to this version so I don't count them) so I'm really restricted to what you tell me

no? you can also read the profiles?

 

[Omegabronic]

btw i am voting Sonic here FRA

 

[Kachon123]

Energy beams =/= buzzsaw quills surrounding Sonic.

Garou can redirect rotation. These attacks are no issue at all.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Garou can redirect rotation. These attacks are no issue at all.

one is a ball one is a drill. Neither are comparable to a buzzsaw. This is like saying because I can stop a rubber ball from spinning unharmed I can stop/redirect something that is sharp on ALL sides. In those feats, Garou had a flat surface he could use to redirect unharmed. Sonic is a sharp buzzsaw in all directions when curled up. No flat surfaces.

 

[Dalesean027]

Sonic FRA

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sonic's teleportation is ia 6D Conceptual Energy. I don't think Garou could exactly copy that.

I don’t think the teleportation having 6D range really makes a difference here ngl. There's nothing stopping Garou from copying the teleportation itself, just not the 6D range.
Idk about "conceptual energy" tho.

Yes, it's on the profile. Classic Sonic went from High 5-A and FTL to 2-C (12 Universes) and Infinite speed instantly upon entering Modern Sonic's world when facing Chaos 0 (Which is listed on his profile). Needless to say his AD is far faster.

I mean sure but then every key in his adventure era is below even h3-A and fought opponents without immediately one shotting them many times, so it's not like he'd jump immediately to tier 2 stuff.
At best it seems he just covers the gap and goes slightly above the opponent rather than jumping to 4D and above ranges.

Energy beams =/= buzzsaw quills surrounding Sonic.

Kachon already replied to this

I think to absorb the rings you have to have some sort of absorption IIRC. Some people like Eggman need to build machines to channel their energy. I think someone else might remember though. I don't think he's beating Sonic to picking up rings tho giving speed blitz amps.

Going Mode:Sonic fixes all these possible issues ngl.

You can know every possible chess moves. You don't know every single move simultaneously being processed in your brain.

Yeah but that doesn't matter. That'd be a disadvantage if anything.

Which I said Emerl can do. He has an infinite amount of combinations to pick from, that's best based on the opponent he is facing.

He's obviously not picking the best options out of infinite options otherwise he wouldn't lose (lol). You can't be better than the best, unless you get stat stomped in which case it's no longer a skill feat.

But generally, is there any evidence he is picking the correct options?

Copying Sonic's reaction speed would just result in Sonic's AD making his own speed increase to overcome him copying it.

Why? It's not like Sonic never gets matched. If anything every game I played involved Sonic getting matched or outperformed so I really doubt Garou copying his stats would somehow make him instantaneously jump by significant amounts. And if he did Garou jumps higher himself while also copying the opponent.

I also said 8x was a minimum lowball, as the amp itself can turn people who were initially overwhelming him speed-wise into statues unable to move or react at all.

I mean sure but looking at the clip and description, spin dash needs some level of build up for such a speed boost, and those robots were not exactly the most skilled people alive unlike Garou who should be able to predict exactly what Sonic is going to do.

I think he's getting speed-blitzed before he gets the chance to. But even if he's not and Garou is actually as troublesome as he's being made out to be, Sonic just uses Chaos Control to stop time and cut him up.

Does he actually do that?

I'm saying if Garou AD's or copies him in some way to grow stronger or faster than Sonic, his AD will kick in and it will put their base speeds on par with one another again.

Yeah that's basically what I'm saying as well. Garou would catch up and then they'd probably just stay relative since they both have AD but Garou can straight up copy stats.

The roblox Sonic shit is also accepted, and Sonic gets faster from just moving in that game without any input.

That's actually crazy ngl.

Sonic doesn't open up with Chaos Control. That's Shadow's thing. Sonic does use it if he's forced into a corner though. He uses it when being launched to Earth to avoid dying and get back to the ark. And he can spam it in the Shadow fight to avoid falling too far behind, he used it in 06 a few times to travel through time with Shadow and Silver. Obviously he's more likely to use it in Super or whatever when he's literally charged with Chaos Energy. But he's going to use Chaos Control if Garou is actually giving him as much trouble as you're making it out to be. He'd just teleport himself, or freeze time and cut him up into a thousand pieces.

That sounds like he only really uses it to avoid death or to counter other chaos shenanigans. Would Sonic really use it before he dies from Garous radiation?

Note that I didn't respond to everything because I want this to be the last, or one of the last replies I leave. I think other people will address further points. But I do think we've exhausted the points now and we've gotten things across pretty clearly.

Yeah the messages are getting too long

 

[LaserPrecision]

I don’t think the teleportation having 6D range really makes a difference here ngl. There's nothing stopping Garou from copying the teleportation itself, just not the 6D range.
Idk about "conceptual energy" tho.

No, I mean the teleportation itself is done through 6D Conceptual energy (Chaos Energy). Like the nature of the ability itself.

I mean sure but then every key in his adventure era is below even h3-A and fought opponents without immediately one shotting them many times, so it's not like he'd jump immediately to tier 2 stuff.
At best it seems he just covers the gap and goes slightly above the opponent rather than jumping to 4D and above ranges.

The AD just puts him a bit above the enemy. If you believed it let him stomp people up to this point, that is my mistake. I guess I didn't explain it well. Basically Classic Sonic was confronted by a 2-C character with Infinite speed and instantly jumped to a level where he could one-shot them upon entering Sonic's world.

He's obviously not picking the best options out of infinite options otherwise he wouldn't lose (lol). You can't be better than the best, unless you get stat stomped in which case it's no longer a skill feat.

But generally, is there any evidence he is picking the correct options?

Tbf, he beats everyone in the game except Sonic at the end of Battle. Sonic is just built different.

I think it's implied by a guide that says to pick the best moveset depending on who you're fighting. But I can't recall at the exact moment.

Why? It's not like Sonic never gets matched. If anything every game I played involved Sonic getting matched or outperformed so I really doubt Garou copying his stats would somehow make him instantaneously jump by significant amounts. And if he did Garou jumps higher himself while also copying the opponent.

I was saying if Garou copies his reactions to be faster than Sonic, he would bring their speed back to equilibrium. Tho I do think this is again a problem of me not conveying how his AD works well enough.

I mean sure but looking at the clip and description, spin dash needs some level of build up for such a speed boost, and those robots were not exactly the most skilled people alive unlike Garou who should be able to predict exactly what Sonic is going to do.

Several of the characters do the spin-dash near instantly. like he literally just tosses them and they perform the spin dash. You can build it up for greater speed. Though it hardly needs any for a speed blitz amp.

Does he actually do that?

Do what? Cut enemies up? Time stop? Yes to both. Sonic has killed numerous characters to save the world before. Sonic isn't going to let himself die. People make out Sonic to be more heroic than he is. If you mean time stuff, also yes. In fact, in games where he has access to it, he kind of frequently uses it (Sonic and the Arabian Nights with Time break).

That's actually crazy ngl.

It is yeah. I think the roblox stuff is stupid, but it's sadly what is accepted.

That sounds like he only really uses it to avoid death or to counter other chaos shenanigans. Would Sonic really use it before he dies from Garous radiation?

I thought it was decided earlier on that he could survive that for a while. If Sonic feels his life fading away, I think he would immediately use Chaos Control to freeze time, yeah. Or something like Ring Time to transmute Garou into rings or smth. But Chaos Control is more in-character. If Garou can supposedly deflect every single strike Sonic throws no-difficulty despite Sonic using statue speed amps in which he can change direction mid-air, why would he continue attacking instead of doing something different?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Do what? Cut enemies up? Time stop? Yes to both.

Makes sense then.

I was going to vote Sonic now but then I noticed Omegabronic be all passive aggressive above and now I don't wanna anymore

 

[LaserPrecision]

Makes sense then.

I was going to vote Sonic now but then I noticed Omegabronic be all passive aggressive above and now I don't wanna anymore

LMAO. I understand. Omegabronic be like that sometimes

 

[Kachon123]

one is a ball one is a drill. Neither are comparable to a buzzsaw. This is like saying because I can stop a rubber ball from spinning unharmed I can stop/redirect something that is sharp on ALL sides. In those feats, Garou had a flat surface he could use to redirect unharmed. Sonic is a sharp buzzsaw in all directions when curled up. No flat surfaces.

Lol what? Garou will be fine.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Lol what? Garou will be fine.

Again, the methods of cutting matter. I do think this example is more comparable, but it comes across more blade-like than saw-like. Like blocking a cut from a knife isn't equivalent to stopping a chainsaw, as an example. But if Garou can use gravity or whatever to coat his fist to protect it, he should be fine regardless.

 

[Kachon123]

Again, the methods of cutting matter. I do think this example is more comparable, but it comes across more blade-like than saw-like. Like blocking a cut from a knife isn't equivalent to stopping a chainsaw, as an example

What Garou did would 100% allow him to deflect Sonic's spin attacks. Your only point on why he wouldn't is that it's a cuts. Garou has shown to deflect things of that nature. It being a buzz saw or not is irrelevant because all a buzz saw is is a spinning wheel with many blades on its edge. There's quite literally nothing about the composition or shape of a buzz saw that would stop Garou from deflecting it.

 

[LaserPrecision]

What Garou did would 100% allow him to deflect Sonic's spin attacks. Your only point on why he wouldn't is that it's a cuts. Garou has shown to deflect things of that nature. It being a buzz saw or not is irrelevant because all a buzz saw is is a spinning wheel with many blades on its edge. There's quite literally nothing about the composition or shape of a buzz saw that would stop Garou from deflecting it.

It's the method from which it cuts. I've conceded in my previous posts that he can deflect it. But deflecting something like the blade of a knife isn't the same as deflecting the blades of a chainsaw. One is clearly far more efficient at cutting through things than the other.

 

[Kachon123]

It's the method from which it cuts. I've conceded in my previous posts that he can deflect it. But deflecting something like the blade of a knife isn't the same as deflecting the blades of a chainsaw. One is clearly far more efficient at cutting through things than the other.

Because of its rotation. It's already established that Garou can negate rotation with ease.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Because of its rotation. It's already established that Garou can negate rotation with ease.

I'll leave one more comment because I already see this becoming circular despite my concession of Garou being able to deflect the attack. He stopped spinning attacks that don't cut things. One was a drill, the other was just a ball. A chainsaw has blades and rotates. Tis all. I agree Garou can deflect it if he were fast enough to actually do so.

 

[Omegabronic]

Makes sense then.

I was going to vote Sonic now but then I noticed Omegabronic be all passive aggressive above and now I don't wanna anymore

Sorry, was in a bad place yesterday due to some... personal stuff. No excuse tho. My bad

 

[DavidTPPM]

Sorry, was in a bad place yesterday due to some... personal stuff. No excuse tho. My bad

No problem, don't worry about it

 

[Epiccheev]

Honestly, seem like a Sonic W for me. He has a lot more going for him hax wise.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Blue Blur FRA

 

[Pyro9278]

Honestly, seem like a Sonic W for me. He has a lot more going for him hax wise.

I take that as a vote?

 

[McFriesGuy075]

I don't think Sonic is gonna be affected by Garou's passive radiation at all. The sun would give a person millions of sieverts upon physical contact IIRC.

That said, Sonic FRA.