The Red Eclipse (Black Hat (Villainous) Rework 1 of 3)

[Half_Shiny]

To say the current Black Hat page is a mess is an understatement. Resistances in the wrong place, broken links, links to social media locations, and broken grammar all around. This along with the age of this page not reflecting the current state of the character. This page will be updated over several CRTs to fit in with VSBW standards and the current depiction of the character.

No new abilities are being added. Removed abilities will be listed along with abilities that have reasoning changes. The reasoning changes will not include upgrades to those said abilities either. Other than that it is purely to fix broken links and future proof them with references. As well as adding images that fit better into the current character. The list will contain the original and then what I changed. Abilities will be added in the next CRT (some abilities removed here with full context will be on there) and tiers will be on the one after that. As of now this is just to put the profile into a higher standard.

New Profile

Spoiler: Removed Abilities

• Supernatural Willpower (In the sequel to the sculpting evil short, it is stated that Black Hat was not satisfied with ripping off her own face, shattered an entire statue into millions of pieces
  • This is from a removed scene not in the series.

• Intangibility, Avatar Creation (He creates one of his past forms, El Charro, in an abstract shadow form instead of his physical form and has him attack the town every night. The beings he created are actually an extension of himself)
  • This is him messing with his shadow. An ability he already has. It has also been shown El Charro is just something he can just turn in at will so “abstract shadow form” is false. Second one is possession.
  • Changed as of 11/3. to the following
  • Avatar Creation (Able to create extension of himself)

• Plot Manipulation (Tape he curses is a the universe and he changes reality like a simple horror movie)
  • Yeah nothing here is even remotely close to true. Even if it was, that would be reality manip. I hope this change was based on this passage. Even if this is true then we know the BHO sells those said tapes which are produced. Nothing claimed is shown here.

• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3. It is the source of the existence of ghost types, whose abilities increase depending on the strength of emotions, which are physical manifestations of intense positive emotions such as love, feeling of protection, affection and which become stronger as the emotion grows stronger)
  • The link provided does not claim for him to be the source. Further BH has been shown summoning ghosts several times throughout the series so is much more likely to be that.
  • Spoiler: Counterpoint for other attempts at CM3

    As mentioned here a second point that did not go into the concept manipulation was “Black Hat is shown to the the source of existence of even the mother poltergeist, one of the ghost with this abstract existence”. Nothing in this link points to Black Hat being the source of Mother Poltergeist.

• Purification (Saves Demencia from the possesion effect of Mascara Makabra)
  • Nothing supernatural from Black Hat. He asks a person to remove the mind controlling mask and they do. Black Hat does nothing here.

• Causality Manipulation, Existence Erasure (He erased Crossover Aku from history as if it never existed)
  • Causality ability in this context was LIKELY added in after all the mods had looked over the last CRT. As seen here it lists the original order that these abilities were in. With all previous versions of this thread listing this along with void manipulation which was not added. With all other claims of concept manipulation being lumped into other abilities or with completely different justification.
  • EE should be fine with the information as currently listed

• Astral Projection (In the verse, shadows are introduced as souls; after Penumbra signs the agreement to sell her soul to Black Hat, Penumbra shadow passes to Black Hat. Black Hat is shown following Victor and Valentino in space with his own shadow)
  • First is soul manip, the second one has no context. We do not know if that is his soul, all we know is that he is there.

• Unholy Manipulation
  
  • Couldn’t find a source

Spoiler: Changed Abilities: Current, then what is on the new page

• Corruption (Type 2), Empathic Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Type 2 and 3), Biological Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Soul Manipulation (Black Hat's comments include any physical, mental or emotional injuries they may cause to viewers. prolonged exposition to this can lead to loss of sanity, soul, hair, nails, welti, itching, heavy smot, stomachache, headache, infectious mononucleosis, inflamed tomili, gases, nausua, need to go to the bathroom, arthritis and swollen eyes, spasms, laughing attacks, urgency to use hats, viilanousness, extreme evil, tang or sharper teeth, hyperactivity among others. Even Alesa Rackham, one of the members of The Blackened authors who worked for him, he was exposed to many of these characteristics the moment he heard her voices. Aldo Maldona decided to leave Black Hat's sect completely due to the terrible supernatural events she experienced, but after the information he obtained about Black Hat at the meeting of the sect, she went crazy and became her loyal slave)
• Corruption (Type 2), Empathic Manipulation, Morality Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Type 2 and 3), Biological Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Soul Manipulation: (Watching an orientation comes with the following warning of what it could cause: loss of sanity, soul, hair, nails, welts, itching, heavy smot, stomachache, headache, infectious mononucleosis, inflamed tonsils, gas, nausea, need to go to the bathroom, arthritis and swollen eyes, spasms, laughing attacks, urgency to use hats, villanousness, extreme evil, tang or sharper teeth, hyperactivity among others. Aldo Maldona attempted to learn about Black Hat’s cult and turned into an insane zealot)
  • Listed two characters as the same person they are not: 1, 2 (The Blacked Author and people BH worked directly with). And various grammar fixes.

• Possession (This is one of his old techniques. Take possession of Aldo Maldonado's body to build and manage the organization. Take possession by corrupting a living sun)
• Possession (Able to take possession of objects and took possession of Aldo Maldonado)
  • First one is shapeshifting, it is stated to be such. Third is a possible version of events that happen because of the context given above, but is not confirmed if it was him possessing the sun or another soul. With the source provided giving the full context, which is still currently in the profile.

• Incorporeality, Abstract Existence (Type 1 - concepts; Black Hat is all the evil that exists in the universe, and it is implied that it exists purely as an abstraction rather than as its embodiment. It is "perfect and absolute darkness" in the universe, is total darkness, it exists as infinite darkness, and its infinite dark existence is felt even when it is contained in a concrete form. Due to his abstract nature, in order to exist physically in the world, he maintains her existence by possessing people like Aldo Maldonado and thus personally manages the organization. Basically, before possessing a body, its confirmed by stating it as a non-existent; a being that exists only in absolute darkness and the total destruction of order)
• Incorporeality, Abstract Existence (Type 2; Black Hat is all the evil that exists in the universe. Is "perfect and absolute darkness" in the universe, total darkness, and exists as infinite darkness. Due to his abstract nature, in order to exist physically in the world, he maintains his existence by possessing people)
  • “Its existence is purely an abstraction” that comes from nowhere and the source provided says demons are intangible. The non-existent removed from context. “The teacher can really be the chosen elector that says this man or it can be someone who does not exist or is a magical entity”. It is referring to the people he does possess, not himself. Stated to be like “infinite dark existence” it was hyperbole to show how dark the character was, since the context was the main character just looking at Black Hat. With the last sentence being an art review from the creator of Villainous.
  • The type change is due to the mod feedback in the CRT. If the character is a possession of the concept then Black Hat would be type 2, which is the physical embodiment of a concept.

• Spatial Manipulation (Manipulates the fabric of reality with objects. Opens a tear in the fabric of space with his claws. He created an endless corridor inside his mansion)
• Spatial Manipulation (Opens a tear in the fabric of space with his claws and created an endless corridor inside his mansion )
  • First one is teleportation.

• Resistance to Electricity Manipulation
• Resistance to Electricity Manipulation (Not affected by his own lightning bolts)
  • In the completely wrong location and no source.

• Magic, Weapon Creation, Curse Manipulation (As the creator of the book, also created the magic in the book. Personally responsible for the magic in the organization and can curse objects. He created the magisword)
  • Magic (As the creator of the book, also created the magic in the book and able to enchant weapons)
  • Weapon Creation (He created the Black Hat magisword)
  • Curse Manipulation (Personally responsible for the creation of cursed objects)
    • He is not responsible for magic in the organization. That is a bold overarching claim that affects everything with nothing to back it up. These needed to be separated

• Reality Warping (transform ice cream into monster)
• Reality Warping (transform ice cream into monster and changed a sun into writhing mass of tentacles)
  • Currently affects the tier so better example.

• Teleportation
• Teleportation (Teleports Flug on numerous occasions and can teleport himself)
  • Gives example of the said ability

• Aura (Overwhelming and fear inducing)
• Aura (Induces overwhelming fear)
  • Fixed grammar and gave a link

Agree: Aolphl (neutral on Ae2), RigelBR7, Da3ggman, ActuallySpaceMan42
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Aolphl]

• Incorporeality, Abstract Existence (Type 2; Black Hat is all the evil that exists in the universe. Is "perfect and absolute darkness" in the universe, total darkness, and exists as infinite darkness. Due to his abstract nature, in order to exist physically in the world, he maintains his existence by possessing people)
  • “Its existence is purely an abstraction” that comes from nowhere and the source provided says demons are intangible. The non-existent removed from context. “The teacher can really be the chosen elector that says this man or it can be someone who does not exist or is a magical entity”. It is referring to the people he does possess, not himself. Stated to be like “infinite dark existence” it was hyperbole to show how dark the character was, since the context was the main character just looking at Black Hat. With the last sentence being an art review from the creator of Villainous.
  • The type change is due to the mod feedback in the CRT. If the character is a possession of the concept then Black Hat would be type 2, which is the physical embodiment of a concept.

I have no problem with that, but does Black Hat have an immortality/regeneration or similar ability related to embodying evil/darkness?

 

[Half_Shiny]

As far as I am aware no

 

[Aolphl]

Then Ae2 kinda iffy, but I'm fine with the rest of thread

 

[RigelBR7]

I agree

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump.

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump

 

[Half_Shiny]

bump #15

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump #16

 

[Da3ggman]

Looks good to me

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

If this isn't adding anything and is just making things neater, I have no problems with it. As for the removals, it's a lot of stuff I debated and felt iffy about when they where added, so no issues there.

 

[Half_Shiny]

If this isn't adding anything and is just making things neater, I have no problems with it.

The only new content is the top of the page with the different forms that BH takes and images/quotes for them. All but the last one are mentioned in the profile that is currently up. With the last one being from the novel which just released. Just want to make sure that is okay, if not can easily snip them from the profile.


Edit: added images to the bottom as well to more flesh out who the character is and update him since he is not the same as the 2017 version. Plus he is currently lacking one in the profile.

 

[Half_Shiny]

Bump

 

[RigelBR7]

Bump

 

[Mayon_king12]

I'm aware that I made a few wrong and erroneous additions since it was the first CRT I opened. I'm working on a sansbox to fix these and add the missing abilities and feats for Black Hat in the profile, but you've apparently already started correcting the erroneous additions before me. But there are some things I disagree with you about

Second one is possession.

this avatar creation must still remain, "What seems to be created by him is really an extension of himself" "which he adapts for the necessary purpose of that moment"

I don't see anything related to possession here. There are only avatar creation, life manipulation and death manipulation (capable of finishing life) in the scan.

Yeah nothing here is even remotely close to true. Even if it was, that would be reality manip. I hope this change was based on this passage. Even if this is true then we know the BHO sells those said tapes which are produced. Nothing claimed is shown here.

In BHO, the person who has the ability to curse is Black Hat, and as it is understood from the name of the short, the tape is cursed and as shown, the person who manipulates the tape is Black Hat, especially when Demencia enters, this tape shows that the universe is completely real, that is, everything that happens on the tape is real. Also, I added this as reality warping at first, but admin stated that it was more accurate to be plot manipulation.

• The link provided does not claim for him to be the source. Further BH has been shown summoning ghosts several times throughout the series so is much more likely to be that.
• As mentioned here a second point that did not go into the concept manipulation was “Black Hat is shown to the the source of existence of even the mother poltergeist, one of the ghost with this abstract existence”. Nothing in this link points to Black Hat being the source of Mother Poltergeist.

this doesn't seem right, Red eclipse is stated to increase ghosts and the fact that both the Mother Poltergeist and Engel Poltergeist turn into ghosts in the orphanage where the red eclipse appears means that the red eclipse turns people into ghosts. If there is not enough context, I have no problem adding it as "Probably Conceptual Manipulation typ 3" (It would be correct to list it under Soul Manipulation ability)

Causality ability in this context was LIKELY added in after all the mods had looked over the last CRT. As seen here it lists the original order that these abilities were in. With all previous versions of this thread listing this along with void manipulation which was not added. With all other claims of concept manipulation being lumped into other abilities or with completely different justification.

Months have passed for CRT and as you know, I have made some changes many times. While I was making these, I am sure that the admins were still there, but since months have passed, I do not remember much, if it is wanted to be removed, it should be removed.

First is soul manip, the second one has no context. We do not know if that is his soul, all we know is that he is there.

Shadows are represented as souls; while Black Hat absorbs Penumbra’s soul, it is actually shown that he is absorbing her shadow. To give a second example, it is mentioned that Black Hat can only create life from his own and others' souls, and Black Hat uses 505's shadow to bring an ice cream to life, once again confirming that shadows are souls.

The reason why Black Hat is an astral projection here is that his own shadow, represented as a soul, follows Victor and Valentino in space, but if it is not thought to be a sufficient argument, I have no problem with its removal. but I think this should at least be added as a camouflage ability because as shown here, in its shadow form, it blends into the environment in places such as space and goes unnoticed.

Listed two characters as the same person they are not: 1, 2 (The Blacked Author and people BH worked directly with)

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are not the same person, Alesa Rackham is a member of The Blackened Authors (It is connected with black hat) and was exposed to these effects by Black Hat.

First one is shapeshifting, it is stated to be such.

Yes, shapeshifting is mentioned, but what is mentioned is also Black Hat's old techniques, and so the on-screen image also implies that one of their old techniques is possession.

Incorporeality, Abstract Existence (Type 2; Black Hat is all the evil that exists in the universe. Is "perfect and absolute darkness" in the universe, total darkness, and exists as infinite darkness. Due to his abstract nature, in order to exist physically in the world, he maintains his existence by possessing people)

• “Its existence is purely an abstraction” that comes from nowhere and the source provided says demons are intangible.

The concept of friendship is mentioned here, instangible already directly implies abstraction, the concept of friendship is something that people feel but is abstract, just like the concept of evil. When Black Hat says demon here, he means himself, implying that he exists as an intangible concept, such as the concept of friendship. Especially Pops's explicit expression of Black Hat as the direct abstract evil of the universe supports these.

• The non-existent removed from context. “The teacher can really be the chosen elector that says this man or it can be someone who does not exist or is a magical entity”. It is referring to the people he does possess, not himself.

"An older man entered the room and positioned himself in front of everyone and gave his speech about the "master", who promises to fulfill the wishes of his followers. He mentioned some personal things of those present and ended the session, then he retired. From what I could observe,
the teacher can really be the chosen elector that says this man or it can be someone who does not exist or is a magical entity"

the teacher mentioned here is Black Hat, already called "master". Since Aldo has just joined the sect, he uses words like master and teacher in the same way. the fact that Black Hat is both called someone non-existent and uses human bodies to exist in the world confirms again his incorperality and gives him AE type 1.

I think it's best to add the abstract existence to the profile like this:

( Type 1 - concepts - Black hat is the abstract evil itself in the universe and implies that itself exists as a complete abstraction, such as the concept of friendship. Also, when asked about the meaning of the concept of evil, Black Hat defines herself as there are always new forms that "evil itself" takes. Due to the incorporeal nature, in order to exist physically in the world, he maintains his existence by possession people like Aldo Maldonado and thus personally manages the organization)

• Stated to be like “infinite dark existence” it was hyperbole to show how dark the character was, since the context was the main character just looking at Black Hat.

There is no hyperbole, especially since Alesa's perception was manipulated by Black Hat so that she sees everything there at the same time and has the ability to gain information. I think this is basically large size type 9. It is expressed many times as endless darkness and İnfinite darkness, when looking at a dark entity such as black hat.

• With the last sentence being an art review from the creator of Villainous.

This is not an unacceptable simple argument, here information is given directly about the existence of Black Hat and Alesa Rackham gives the same information as in this art review and proves that everything mentioned is true.

First one is teleportation.

But the thing that is teleported is not dr.flug and his team, it is just the paperbag, I always thought it was a dimensional storage ability, but admin rejected it and said it was spatial manipulation, don't you think this could be dimensional storage? It can fit dr.flug and his team inside a paper bag. If neither, it should be added as absorption or just reality warping.

• Magic (As the creator of the book, also created the magic in the book and able to enchant weapons)
• Weapon Creation (He created the Black Hat magisword)
• Curse Manipulation (Personally responsible for the creation of cursed objects)
  • He is not responsible for magic in the organization. That is a bold overarching claim that affects everything with nothing to back it up. These needed to be separated

Since it enchants weapons, curse manipulation should still be written under Magic ability, and weapon creation should be written under Magic ability because it is Magisword sword as its name suggests.

Also

Nothing supernatural from Black Hat. He asks a person to remove the mind controlling mask and they do. Black Hat does nothing here.

Clearly Black Hat saves her from the effect of the mask, there is nothing to deny here, even when Black Hat does this on stage everyone is surprised, even Flug failed to do this despite trying many times. Just because Black Hat doesn't create any aura while doing this doesn't mean he doesn't do it, Black Hat can also use his powers with his comments and voice, you know.

 

[Half_Shiny]

Before I start I will state what I said to start the CRT. Some removed abilities will be put back in the next CRT with new reasoning. The purpose of this thread is to clean up the existing information that is currently on the page.

this avatar creation must still remain, for he can create beings from part of himself, "What seems to be created by him is really an extension of himself" "which he adapts for the necessary purpose of that moment"

I don't see anything related to possession here. There are only avatar creation, life manipulation and death manipulation (capable of finishing life) in the scan.

I will admit when I am wrong. The intangibility will be removed but avatar creation will stay.

In BHO, the person who has the ability to curse is Black Hat, and as it is understood from the name of the short, the tape is cursed and as shown, the person who manipulates the tape is Black Hat, especially when Demencia enters, this tape shows that the universe is completely real, that is, everything that happens on the tape is real. Also, I added this as reality warping at first, but admin stated that it was more accurate to be plot manipulation.

What you have stated is subjective reality with reality manipulation. At best this is Pocket Reality Manipulation.

This is one of the abilities where that will be returned in the next CRT

this doesn't seem right, Red eclipse is stated to increase ghosts and the fact that both the Mother Poltergeist and Engel Poltergeist turn into ghosts in the orphanage where the red eclipse appears means that the red eclipse turns people into ghosts. If there is not enough context, I have no problem adding it as "Probably Conceptual Manipulation typ 3" (It would be correct to list it under Soul Manipulation ability)

This is the problem I stated before. Increase does not equal source, it is likely summoning which he has been shown doing.
“Poltergeist turn into ghosts in the orphanage where the red eclipse appears means that the red eclipse turns people into ghosts.”
The red eclipse didn’t turn her into a ghost, the moon is completely normal when the transformation occurred. There is no direct connection between the red eclipse and Mother Poltergeist. If you gave me direct evidence that the red eclipse was the reason she turned I would believe you. But so far the only evidence is a red eclipse happened there at some point which if that was the cause it would go directly against the statement of ghosts all suddenly increasing.

Also

Clearly Black Hat saves her from the effect of the mask, there is nothing to deny here, even when Black Hat does this on stage everyone is surprised, even Flug failed to do this despite trying many times. Just because Black Hat doesn't create any aura while doing this doesn't mean he doesn't do it, Black Hat can also use his powers with his comments and voice, you know.

From my perspective the exact same argument could be made for Dem. Since shock and surprise could be just taking off the mask. It is likely she did it because the person she loved asked her to take it off. They asked her to take off the mask and she did. With Dem being much more likely since she has been shown resistant to several sources of empathic manipulation before with Miss Heed's vapors having no effect on Dem.

Shadows are represented as souls; while Black Hat absorbs Penumbra’s soul, it is actually shown that he is absorbing her shadow. To give a second example, it is mentioned that Black Hat can only create life from his own and others' souls, and Black Hat uses 505's shadow to bring an ice cream to life, once again confirming that shadows are souls.

The reason why Black Hat is an astral projection here is that his own shadow, represented as a soul, follows Victor and Valentino in space, but if it is not thought to be a sufficient argument, I have no problem with its removal. but I think this should at least be added as a camouflage ability because as shown here, in its shadow form, it blends into the environment in places such as space and goes unnoticed.

We aren’t even sure if it’s a shadow. I can’t even call it camo in good faith since we don’t know what it is. It could be Black Hat, something he created, him just watching, etc.

This is one of the abilities where that will be returned in the next CRT because we have direct evidence of astral projection in a different source

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are not the same person, Alesa Rackham is a member of The Blackened Authors (It is connected with black hat) and was exposed to these effects by Black Hat.

The main issue again is that these people are never stated to be Blackened Authors. Since the blackened Authors are a group that never worked with Black Hat directly.
"All this in a very similar context; a "sudden awakening" given by a series of "ominously aberrant" visions of an "evil existing beyond human understanding" as some said. These people have been called "The Blackened Authors".

Yes, shapeshifting is mentioned, but what is mentioned is also Black Hat's old techniques, and so the on-screen image also implies that one of their old techniques is possession.

He is talking about shapeshifting. We are told directly by him it is shapeshifting. The technique he shows off is shapeshifting.

No possession

The concept of friendship is mentioned here, instangible already directly implies abstraction, the concept of friendship is something that people feel but is abstract, just like the concept of evil. When Black Hat says demon here, he means himself, implying that he exists as an intangible concept, such as the concept of friendship. Especially Pops's explicit expression of Black Hat as the direct abstract evil of the universe supports these.

He says its intangible, everything else is pure conjecture. This is an association fallacy.

BH is a demon, demons are intangible. So therefore since he said it while talking about a concept which is intangible, he must be a concept.

This is not sound logic and is directly listed as an example for this fallacy.

"An older man entered the room and positioned himself in front of everyone and gave his speech about the "master", who promises to fulfill the wishes of his followers. He mentioned some personal things of those present and ended the session, then he retired. From what I could observe,
the teacher can really be the chosen elector that says this man or it can be someone who does not exist or is a magical entity"

the teacher mentioned here is Black Hat, already called "master". Since Aldo has just joined the sect, he uses words like master and teacher in the same way. the fact that Black Hat is both called someone non-existent and uses human bodies to exist in the world confirms again his incorperality and gives him AE type 1.

Tell me in the section it says BH is non existent. Because it says "chosen elector that says this man or it can be someone who does not exist or is a magical entity". So show me where it says the master himself is currently a person who does not exist.

Because it lists of multiple things it could possess so give me proof that it is the one thing in particular above all else. And that undeniable proof that he is possessing that person.

There is no hyperbole, especially since Alesa's perception was manipulated by Black Hat so that she sees everything there at the same time and has the ability to gain information. I think this is basically large size type 9. It is expressed many times as endless darkness and İnfinite darkness, when looking at a dark entity such as black hat.

Yeah the claim given was by a different character entirely just looking at the Black Hat. Not any different form just looking at the character as is. Then you reference the same source that is being questioned to back up your claim, as additional evidence. With Alesa being unknown how she looked up at BH, was it a different form, base, manipulation, etc.

This is not an unacceptable simple argument, here information is given directly about the existence of Black Hat and Alesa Rackham gives the same information as in this art review and proves that everything mentioned is true.

Its subtle but they are saying VERY different things

"Everlasting is its flow of unfathomable chaos
of horrors and nightmares through the void
like black serpents in detestable procession
from the center of the pulsating and unholy cosmos..."

vs the artist review

“Then I had a vision… It was the terrible and ominous origin of chaos at the center of the universe… something that only exists in absolute darkness and in the total destruction of order…”

They have similar themes but completely different in execution. My main problem was the fact the source of the information wasn't even an author statement but just the author reviewing some official art.

But the thing that is teleported is not dr.flug and his team, it is just the paperbag, I always thought it was a dimensional storage ability, but admin rejected it and said it was spatial manipulation, don't you think this could be dimensional storage? It can fit dr.flug and his team inside a paper bag. If neither, it should be added as absorption or just reality warping.

We see them pop out so no, if they were in there for a period and time then yes.

Since it enchants weapons, curse manipulation should still be written under Magic ability, and weapon creation should be written under Magic ability because it is Magisword sword as its name suggests.

This cleans it up and provides example for each instead of all of them being in a row and tacked on.




In conclusion. Several of these abilities will be put back in the next CRT even if I did not directly state it