Black Hat conceptual manipulation

[RigelBR7]

Hello everyone again, it's me again, the minor Black Hat fan!!

I came to bring some signs of conceptual/abstract manipulation to Black Hat this time, see.

There are two types of abstract souls/spirits in Villainous, being manifestations of people's positive and negative feelings. And as you know, Black Hat can devour souls, use and manipulate them at his pleasure. Which certainly guaranteed conceptual/abstract manipulation of type 1 or 3.

Scan 1: https://abre.ai/jtmG
Scan 2: https://abre.ai/jtmJ

These scans come from the Creepy Charlie blog, which is a separate medium from Vilanesco's series, and is also connected to the work as well as other websites and books, so it's valid.These scans come from the Creepy Charlie blog, which is a separate medium from Vilanesco's series, and is also connected to the work as well as other websites and books, so it's valid.
Link of Creepy Charlie blog: https://creepycharly.blogspot.com/2022/05/le-livre-des-fantomes.html?m=1

Also in Black Hat's completely harmless book, Caleb says that Black Hat can shape/transform and adapt souls for the necessary objective at the moment.

Scan 3: https://abre.ai/jtmP

ADD EDIT 1: I brought one more quote from an interview to strengthen my argument.
It says here that BH can not only devour souls, but it can also devour pain and suffering, which are feelings.

Scan 4: https://abre.ai/jtH5

Link of Interview: https://nightfurmoon.tumblr.com/tagged/livestream/page/3

In general, because he can manipulate or devour any type of soul in Vilanesco's universe, including abstract ones, this would guarantee him conceptual manipulation of type 1 or 3.

That's all for today. Do these arguments seem valid to all of you?

 

[Aolphl]

Destroying/killing a character, who has Abstract Existence, does not give you Conceptual Manipulation. You need to prove that the character affects the concept in question.

 

[RigelBR7]

Destroying/killing a character, who has Abstract Existence, does not give you Conceptual Manipulation. You need to prove that the character affects the concept in question.

There are several types of conceptual manipulation, one of which is when you have the ability to shape, affect or destroy abstractions or concepts. In this case, BH can devour, destroy and shape souls at will, and there are abstract souls in Villainous. Physical representations of positive feelings and negative feelings, abstractions of people's feelings.There is no soul or other thing in the universe that Black Hat cannot devour, which grants him a specific type of conceptual manipulation.

 

[Aolphl]

There are several types of conceptual manipulation,

Okay that's true

one of which is when you have the ability to shape, affect or destroy abstractions or concepts.

Okay, that's true too

In this case, BH can devour, destroy and shape souls at will, and there are abstract souls in Villainous.

Hmm

Physical representations of positive feelings and negative feelings, abstractions of people's feelings.

I have no problem with the entities you mentioned obtaining an Abstract Existence.

There is no soul or other thing in the universe that Black Hat cannot devour, which grants him a specific type of conceptual manipulation.

The point you are missing is that destroying/killing any character, who has Abstract Existence, does not give you Conceptual Manipulation. Just as a character who creates a galaxy does not directly receive Black Hole Creation, or a character who creates a soul does not receive Soul Manipulation; in the same way, killing/destroying a character, who has Abstract Existence, does not give you Conceptual Manipulation.

 

[RigelBR7]

Okay that's true

Okay, that's true too

Hmm

I have no problem with the entities you mentioned obtaining an Abstract Existence.

The point you are missing is that destroying/killing any character, who has Abstract Existence, does not give you Conceptual Manipulation. Just as a character who creates a galaxy does not directly receive Black Hole Creation, or a character who creates a soul does not receive Soul Manipulation; in the same way, killing/destroying a character, who has Abstract Existence, does not give you Conceptual Manipulation.

The point here is that souls are abstractions of human feelings, and if he has the ability to destroy and devour them, that means he has the ability to destroy these abstractions.He can also affect and shape them, even though he is the abstract representation of feelings, so this would guarantee him conceptual sub-manipulation of a specific type at least.

 

[Aolphl]

The point here is that souls are abstractions of human feelings, and if he has the ability to destroy and devour them, that means he has the ability to destroy these abstractions.

Sorry, I've explained this twice. You have to directly influence the concept, you won't get it if you kill him. I disagree

 

[RigelBR7]

Sorry, I've explained this twice. You have to directly influence the concept, you won't get it if you kill him. I disagree

It's no surprise coming from you

 

[Aolphl]

It's no surprise coming from you

Bro thinks himself is funny. Pity, this thread will already be rejected.

 

[RigelBR7]

Bro se acha engraçado. Pena que este tópico já será rejeitado.

It will not be rejected. Your opinion alone is not valid, especially with your history.

 

[HigashikataJobin]

or a character who creates a soul does not receive Soul Manipulation;

This is literally an explicit soul manipulation feat.

 

[Aolphl]

This is literally an explicit soul manipulation feat.

It's not. This was also discussed here a few days ago, read what I and LordGriffin said. You will understand the situation.

In case of creation of large and varied objects, such as planets, galaxies and universes, one should just list creation as ability without listing separate abilities for each created object. For example, while creation of a galaxy likely includes creation of black holes, Black Hole Creation should not be listed separately. An exception to that would be if the object in question is of particular relevance to the characters fighting style, i.e. if the character for instance launches black holes at his opponents.

Creation

Creation is the ability to create something from nothing, without manipulating existing things. The user can create organic or inorganic matter from nothing either as finished objects or simply unfinished elements. As long as it can be defined as object, the user has the power to make it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It will not be rejected.

It will be nice to see that.

Your opinion alone is not valid,

You perceive killing/destroying a character, who has Abstract Existence, as a Conceptual Manipulation xd. This is very funny

especially with your history.

Yes, these my history:

Some Black Hat Downgrades (Villainous)

Black Hat's Plot Manipulation: Plot Manipulation (Created Villainous and has shown to shoot down plot points) We are reviewing the first scan provided: Alan: And that's how the idea started. I also based it on people I knew... Puppet: This lazy bum lies. One day, he was desperate that he made...

vsbattles.com

Black Hat Downgrade

So, currently Black Hat is Low 2-C via scaling above Crossover Anti-Pops. Although there is a problem here. At this point in time, Anti-Pops was weakened by Pops's hug, and Flug explicitly states that he reduced both of their power levels so much so that the sun could incinerate them both. By...

vsbattles.com

 

[RigelBR7]

It's not. This was also discussed here a few days ago, read what I and LordGriffin said. You will understand the situation.

Creation

Creation is the ability to create something from nothing, without manipulating existing things. The user can create organic or inorganic matter from nothing either as finished objects or simply unfinished elements. As long as it can be defined as object, the user has the power to make it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

It will be nice to see that.

You perceive killing/destroying a character, who has Abstract Existence, as a Conceptual Manipulation xd. This is very funny

Yes, these my history:

Some Black Hat Downgrades (Villainous)

Black Hat's Plot Manipulation: Plot Manipulation (Created Villainous and has shown to shoot down plot points) We are reviewing the first scan provided: Alan: And that's how the idea started. I also based it on people I knew... Puppet: This lazy bum lies. One day, he was desperate that he made...

vsbattles.com

Black Hat Downgrade

So, currently Black Hat is Low 2-C via scaling above Crossover Anti-Pops. Although there is a problem here. At this point in time, Anti-Pops was weakened by Pops's hug, and Flug explicitly states that he reduced both of their power levels so much so that the sun could incinerate them both. By...

vsbattles.com

We already know these types of people

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm unsure.

 

[RigelBR7]

I'm unsure.

EDIT 1: I brought one more quote from an interview to strengthen my argument.
It says here that BH can not only devour souls, but it can also devour pain and suffering, which are feelings.

Scan 4: https://abre.ai/jtH5

 

[Lynieryz]

There is nothing valid here, type 1 is something extremely rigid and there is nothing that even indicates type 2, imagine type 1; Type 3 is not valid because the abstract existence is not valid:

Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction.

Abstract Existence

Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it. This power has a variety of uses, ranging from a high degree of control over the abstraction and its manifestations, the aforementioned immortality, or even...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[RigelBR7]

There is nothing valid here, type 1 is something extremely rigid and there is nothing that even indicates type 2, imagine type 1; Type 3 is not valid because the abstract existence is not valid:

Abstract Existence

Abstract Existence is the ability to embody an abstraction, such as a concept, thought, or information, and being immortal thanks to it. This power has a variety of uses, ranging from a high degree of control over the abstraction and its manifestations, the aforementioned immortality, or even...

vsbattles.fandom.com

In fact, souls are an abstraction of their own. Souls are made of abstract feelings, feelings in their essence are concepts. To affect them it would be necessary to interact with the abstraction itself. And in this case, because of this existence, it would be, in other words, low-level conceptual instead of type 2 or 1 here at VSB. The abstraction itself is souls.

 

[Lynieryz]

In fact, souls are an abstraction of their own. Souls are made of abstract feelings, feelings in their essence are concepts. To affect them it would be necessary to interact with the abstraction itself. And in this case, because of this existence, it would be, in other words, low-level conceptual instead of type 2 or 1 here at VSB. The abstraction itself is souls.

Embodying a concept is not enough to obtain this ability, an abstract needs feats or reliable statements proving that the concept they represent grants them Immortality/Regeneration or control over the abstraction.

That's not enough, everything in essence is a concept, you need direct mention of a concept or a feat that absolutely indicates the same.

Following your logic, all empathic manipulation would be conceptual, which is obviously not the case.

Empathic Manipulation

The ability to allow to influence feelings and emotions. Usually associated with mental manipulation, but can sometimes be carried out in other ways (e.g., direct biochemical effects). Controlling emotions can be divided into manipulating positive and negative emotions. Also possible to use the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Empathic Manipulation Users

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[RigelBR7]

Não basta isso, tudo em essência é um conceito, é preciso mencionar diretamente um conceito ou um feito que indique absolutamente o mesmo.

Seguindo a sua lógica, toda manipulação empática seria conceitual, o que obviamente não é o caso.

Empathic Manipulation

The ability to allow to influence feelings and emotions. Usually associated with mental manipulation, but can sometimes be carried out in other ways (e.g., direct biochemical effects). Controlling emotions can be divided into manipulating positive and negative emotions. Also possible to use the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Empathic Manipulation Users

vsbattles.fandom.com

Hacia Souls are abstract because they can only exist if there are positive or negative feelings.Without feelings, their manifestation does not occur, so to defeat or destroy them, it is necessary to affect their abstraction.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The links take forever to load.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The links take forever to load.

Could someone just screenshot the linked sources and place it on imgur.