Some Black Hat Downgrades (Villainous)

[DimeUhDozen]

Plus, iirc, aren’t those scans pulled from WoG interviews/streams and not from the actual show’s canon? That doesn’t seem correct.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Plus, iirc, aren’t those scans pulled from WoG interviews/streams and not from the actual show’s canon? That doesn’t seem correct.

And this is a solid argument, and one I prefer using on my own terms

 

[Ang4I00]

Plus, iirc, aren’t those scans pulled from WoG interviews/streams and not from the actual show’s canon? That doesn’t seem correct.

That does seem sus, is there any implications of what is stated in WoG in the show itself?

 

[DaReaperMan]

That does seem sus, is there any implications of what is stated in WoG in the show itself?

I don't think so, but I could be wrong as I haven't watched anything Villainous in awhile

 

[DimeUhDozen]

That does seem sus, is there any implications of what is stated in WoG in the show itself?

Just some fourth wall breaks of him threatening/scaring the audience I believe but any villain can do that tbh.

 

[Ang4I00]

WoG is pretty reliable unless its heavily contradicted but due to lack of any implications in the show itself I think possibly rating can do.

 

[Aolphl]

Cannot be alowed for tiering and scaling, nothing says or implies even that it doesn't mean anything for plot manipulation. No one said that pages suddenly contradict themselves. I said that you should distinguish standarts and qualifications for actual scaling, tiers and etc from abilities and hax, they're separate things, one doesn't impact another, that's the main point. You're using standarts for scaling AP to downgrade the ability that has nothing to do with those standarts at all.

Here I'm gonna pull a you for a bit

How does one not affect the other? Dude, did you read the page? This is a standards page, and the profiles of the characters are shaped according to what is found here. The characters are scaled according to the things written there. He is talking about the fact that a character on the page cannot be found in the Real World, he cannot influence his Real Author, when such a thing happens, it should not be ignored, it should be Decried as a joke, it should be ignored. Black Hat is somehow getting Plot Manipulation against all these things. Black Hat is somehow taking Plot Manipulation against all these standards.

 

[Aolphl]

Plus, iirc, aren’t those scans pulled from WoG interviews/streams and not from the actual show’s canon? That doesn’t seem correct.

Yes

 

[DaReaperMan]

How does one not affect the other? Dude, did you read the page? This is a standards page, and the profiles of the characters are shaped according to what is found here. The characters are scaled according to the things written there. He is talking about the fact that a character on the page cannot be found in the Real World, he cannot influence his Real Author, when such a thing happens, it should not be ignored, it should be Decried as a joke, it should be ignored. Black Hat is somehow getting Plot Manipulation against all these things. Black Hat is somehow taking Plot Manipulation against all these standards.

And that page is explicitly used for Tiering, not Plot Manipulation, plus, you'd have to prove that was the real world author and not just a self-insert.

 

[Aolphl]

That does seem sus, is there any implications of what is stated in WoG in the show itself?

Literally no. It would be ridiculous if Black Hat had actually created the Show. Black Hat has always been portrayed as a cruel and sadistic person. If he really created the show, it would be ridiculous to have Heroes, good characters on the show. Remember Miss Heed, who was raised from Black Hat's own academy, she was a hero.

 

[Aolphl]

And that page is explicitly used for Tiering, not Plot Manipulation, plus, you'd have to prove that was the real world author and not just a self-insert.

What does it take for us to prove that Alan Ituriel is a "Real" person and that he is a person from the "Real" world? What is the proof that Alan Ituriel is a character from the Show?

 

[Ang4I00]

How does one not affect the other? Dude, did you read the page? This is a standards page, and the profiles of the characters are shaped according to what is found here. The characters are scaled according to the things written there. He is talking about the fact that a character on the page cannot be found in the Real World, he cannot influence his Real Author, when such a thing happens, it should not be ignored, it should be Decried as a joke, it should be ignored. Black Hat is somehow getting Plot Manipulation against all these things. Black Hat is somehow taking Plot Manipulation against all these standards.

I'm going to just give you an clear example: Higher Dimensional Existence and higher dimensions for higher tiers of scaling.
The standarts to qualify for scalable higher dimensions are very strict(uncountable infinite difference between lower dimensional plane, statements and other stuff).
However, the standarts to qualify for HDE are much more easier, you can be unquantifiably above general 3 dimensions(not neccessary infinitely above) and that's all.
Do you know why's that?
Because abilities and tiers/scaling are separated, I said this numerous times already.
You are using standarts for a tiering to downgrade an ability, whereas both of them are not related to each other at all, not mentioned on their both respective pages, there's no sort of connection here, literally nothing.
Do you see a flaw in that?
Standarts and definition for ability are found on the pages of said ability, not on a page for tiering.

 

[Ang4I00]

Literally no. It would be ridiculous if Black Hat had actually created the Show. Black Hat has always been portrayed as a cruel and sadistic person. If he really created the show, it would be ridiculous to have Heroes, good characters on the show. Remember Miss Heed, who was raised from Black Hat's own academy, she was a hero.

Its better that you update the OP with those exact arguments and scans to fit em, its much more understandable and solid reason for downgrade than what you have currently.

 

[Aolphl]

Its better that you update the OP with those exact arguments and scans to fit em, its much more understandable and solid reason for downgrade than what you have currently.

All right, I'll make a note of these too.

 

[Aolphl]

Its better that you update the OP with those exact arguments and scans to fit em, its much more understandable and solid reason for downgrade than what you have currently.

All right, I've added a few things about that. What are your current thoughts? (If there is a possible translation error, I would be glad if you could inform me.)

 

[Theglassman12]

@Aolphl I'm just going to comment about the plot hax arguments, using the tiering system to get rid of an ability like plot hax, which is not tied to one's AP by default is not an argument to use. Actually refute the legitimacy of the plot hax itself rather than using the tiering system when that's tied to AP and durability.

 

[Half_Shiny]

Yo sorry life has been hectic. My b for not seeing this earlier. If I don't respond soon, sorry bit busy atm. Sorry

Plot manipulation
I am sorry for my lack of metafiction knowledge. He didn't get the low 2-C from this ability. I do believe this is plot manipulation since this his own story. Story still needs conflict. For why he let character live, just Prenumbra who was a good person and got sabotaged to eventually turn to the BHO in desperation. In the comics Heed's escape let BH catch a person who was not loyal to his cause. Its a story.

We have also seen other places where BH not only threatens but it has even stated that "BH’s very aware of us and the cartoon is part of his plan". As part of his plan. All though the livestreams are dubious at best in some cases. The fact this has showed up in multiple locations with a reason, brings pretty decent proof.

I agree with precog being removed

Death Manip
I mean I am fine with limited. Still says if they say his name they die. Which with mind readers or other such abilities can occur. Or just repeat the name for what ever reason

Time Manipulation
He made the book in which the time manipulation is occurring

Now for some of the random changes
Holy manip, Lifting strength, MFTL+

Holy manip and lifting were added without a CRT
MFTL+ looks like it was accepted but under completely different circumstance. Thanks to the help of greatsage13 this was calced and confirmed to be MFTL+. Why it remained as Anti-Pops I have no idea.

A Black Hat's copy of it can be turned into stone. After Black Hat created this copy, he states that the Evil thing he could have created was himself. So yes, this Copy is on the same level as Black Hat.

Blatant no.
"Debo decir que estoy muy orgulloso con mi nueva creación. El rayo utiliza el componente H3-X (el cual aún estoy estudiando) para crear “réplicas” de lo más malvado que piense cualquiera que utilice el dispositivo. Puede materializar lo que sea, desde un objeto inanimado hasta un ser vivo, replicando (al menos en apariencia exterior) el original a la perfección. Lo llamo: ¡EL RAYO MATERIALIZADOR DE MALDAD!"

"I must say that I am very proud of my new creation. The ray uses the H3-X component (which I am still studying) to create "replicas" of the most evil thing anyone who uses the device can think of. It can materialize anything from an inanimate object to a living being, replicating (at least in outward appearance) the original to perfection. I call it: THE EVIL MATERIALIZING RAY!"
Villanos - Bitacora de investigación del Dr. Flug: ¡Diario de Dem! pg 8

Feats from The buff BH should scale to BH but not vice versa

If Gravity is reset in the environment where Black Hat is located, It will just hang in the air.

It has gotten past this point a long time ago with several other abilities


Put me down as neutral some changes needed to happen due to changes that occurred, others not so much. Still keeps a low 2-C and I am fine with 2-B via creation

 

[Ang4I00]

Due to arguments presented, I share the same views as person above, but would put Possibly rating for Plot Manipulation because it lacks any statements in the show itself by evidence presented, only WoG statements

 

[Half_Shiny]

I am cool with that. During the creation of that CRT I also believed that the puppet that was used the breakdown of Villainous originally came from that clip. Then referenced heavily in the series. To give standing in the series, but this came out a year earlier.

 

[Aolphl]

@Aolphl I'm just going to comment about the plot hax arguments, using the tiering system to get rid of an ability like plot hax, which is not tied to one's AP by default is not an argument to use. Actually refute the legitimacy of the plot hax itself rather than using the tiering system when that's tied to AP and durability.

First of all, thank you for coming to the Crt. Yes, I use some pages because we scale our characters according to what is on that page. I attribute the inability of people on the other side to understand what I want to say to "Translation" errors. But now we also have new arguments about the fact that the word WoG contradicts the main show. I ask you to make a decision by evaluating them as well.

Yo sorry life has been hectic. My b for not seeing this earlier. If I don't respond soon, sorry bit busy atm. Sorry

Oh, it's okay.

Plot manipulation
I am sorry for my lack of metafiction knowledge. He didn't get the low 2-C from this ability. I do believe this is plot manipulation since this his own story. Story still needs conflict. For why he let character live, just Prenumbra who was a good person and got sabotaged to eventually turn to the BHO in desperation. In the comics Heed's escape let BH catch a person who was not loyal to his cause. Its a story.

We have also seen other places where BH not only threatens but it has even stated that "BH’s very aware of us and the cartoon is part of his plan". As part of his plan. All though the livestreams are dubious at best in some cases. The fact this has showed up in multiple locations with a reason, brings pretty decent proof.

It would be absurd to give him Plot Manipulation, assuming that Black Hat has influence over the writers. Even Black Hat's presence in the Real World puts it at risk because we don't allow Fictional Characters to exist in the Real World. We also now have arguments that the things that Alan said are at odds with the show. These arguments are again arguments against Black Hat receiving Plot Manipulation.

threatens

I'm not speak Spanish

"BH’s very aware of us and the cartoon is part of his plan"

Is there any information that this page is a reliable source? The fact that it was made for villainous, I don't think what it says there will be true.

Holy manip and lifting were added without a CRT

Then these definitely need to be removed.

MFTL+ looks like it was accepted but under completely different circumstance. Thanks to the help of greatsage13 this was calced and confirmed to be MFTL+. Why it remained as Anti-Pops I have no idea.

This Calc would be Attack Speed only and would only be valid on the condition that the Magisword is present in Black Hat. The Speed sheet he needs to get from the Black Hat Crossover Anti-Pops and Pops is FTL.

"I must say that I am very proud of my new creation. The ray uses the H3-X component (which I am still studying) to create "replicas" of the most evil thing anyone who uses the device can think of. It can materialize anything from an inanimate object to a living being, replicating (at least in outward appearance) the original to perfection. I call it: THE EVIL MATERIALIZING RAY!"
Villanos - Bitacora de investigación del Dr. Flug: ¡Diario de Dem! pg 8

Feats from The buff BH should scale to BH but not vice versa

But this clone is different from the others. This weapon that Flug made is a weapon that creates the most "Bad" things that people can think of. After Black Hat used this weapon, he said, "It works! I am the worst thing I could have created," he says. We're assuming Black Hat has Gifted intelligence right now. So it wouldn't make sense for him to lie there for no reason. That clone is literally Black Hat himself.

It has gotten past this point a long time ago with several other abilities

This thing naturally shows Black Hat to be weak against things like Telekinesis, Gravity Manipulation. It needs to be in the profile.

I am cool with that. During the creation of that CRT I also believed that the puppet that was used the breakdown of Villainous originally came from that clip. Then referenced heavily in the series. To give standing in the series, but this came out a year earlier.

So this means that the puppet was first shown on the show, and then Alan Ituriel used it. If we were to use the author's statements, Alan Ituriel would have to use this puppet first, and then appear on the show. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, it would be ridiculous for Black Hat to create the Show because there are "Good Characters, Heroes". Because Black Hat hates everything that is good and wants them to disappear. Remember that Miss Heed and Gold Hearth were raised from Black Hat's own academy. They're both heroes. Why is Black Hat still letting them live? Or why would Black Hat bother killing heroes before they retire?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't speak Spanish so I have no idea what the scans are saying. I will work on the idea that the OP is accurate- if it isn't, it'll have to be discussed by someone who speaks Spanish.

Regarding AP: I suspect you mean Environmental Destruction, not Universal Energy System. I would agree with changing it to ED.

This is my sole additional thing to note, everything else seems generally okay (again, assuming the translations are accurate- like in the case of Death Manip, I can't do anything to confirm).

 

[Aolphl]

Regarding AP: I suspect you mean Environmental Destruction, not Universal Energy System. I would agree with changing it to ED.

I don't think there will be Environmental Destruction here. We only have information about the fact that Black Hat created 3556+ universes. If there is no evidence to the contrary, it is only the ability to Creation. Thank you for commenting. I will register you, assuming that you have read the OP and commented on it accordingly.

 

[Half_Shiny]

I'm not speak Spanish

Something along the lines of get back to work

Is there any information that this page is a reliable source? The fact that it was made for villainous, I don't think what it says there will be true.

Yes, they are one the main translators for the US and a valuable source of information. They are reporting on a livestream that the studio made.

It would be absurd to give him Plot Manipulation, assuming that Black Hat has influence over the writers. Even Black Hat's presence in the Real World puts it at risk because we don't allow Fictional Characters to exist in the Real World. We also now have arguments that the things that Alan said are at odds with the show. These arguments are again arguments against Black Hat receiving Plot Manipulation.

Again not the actual real world. This is a place where a puppet talks and has satanic powers. I already explained the hero thing and is repeated below.

This Calc would be Attack Speed only and would only be valid on the condition that the Magisword is present in Black Hat. The Speed sheet he needs to get from the Black Hat Crossover Anti-Pops and Pops is FTL.

He makes it on a whim and the sword was only shown using an ability he has.

But this clone is different from the others. This weapon that Flug made is a weapon that creates the most "Bad" things that people can think of. After Black Hat used this weapon, he said, "It works! I am the worst thing I could have created," he says. We're assuming Black Hat has Gifted intelligence right now. So it wouldn't make sense for him to lie there for no reason. That clone is literally Black Hat himself.

That clone is used as an example of what Flug says in the device's description. It creates whatever the wants but can't replicate it other than outwardly. I don't see how this goes against gifted intelligence, it looks like exactly what he wanted on the surface. There is also several points of supporting reasons why this would not be the case.

1. This clone is not immune to the petrification process (5:41) presented by the medusa head with original BH is immune to.
2. When BH asked anything will make them as strong as BH he says no (4:30). Despite selling the medusa canon (8:03) which was able to strike the clone down.
3. One of the clone is straight up held up by duct tape and nothing else (5:35).

This thing naturally shows Black Hat to be weak against things like Telekinesis, Gravity Manipulation. It needs to be in the profile.

He has abilities now that make this irrelevant. Still able to teleport among various other things in the links I posted

So this means that the puppet was first shown on the show, and then Alan Ituriel used it. If we were to use the author's statements, Alan Ituriel would have to use this puppet first, and then appear on the show. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, it would be ridiculous for Black Hat to create the Show because there are "Good Characters, Heroes". Because Black Hat hates everything that is good and wants them to disappear. Remember that Miss Heed and Gold Hearth were raised from Black Hat's own academy. They're both heroes. Why is Black Hat still letting them live? Or why would Black Hat bother killing heroes before they retire?

What you said about the puppet doesn't make sense. So if something exists in real life it can't be shown? But it was just my reasoning on why I thought three years ago and saying things changed.

And I mentioned the hero problem. Prenumbra was good person who was eventually turned to drastic means, into the BHO. And in the comics Heed's escape brought out the true colors of a mob boss that used to work for BH, showing him as rouge. It is still a story like BH himself said, it will have conflict.

This is my sole additional thing to note, everything else seems generally okay (again, assuming the translations are accurate- like in the case of Death Manip, I can't do anything to confirm).

(5:33, has subtitles). I don't speak spanish either and the subs on youtube mostly got nuked recently.




I probably won't be able to do a response till around Friday because of life stuff. Just put me down for neutral. I disagree on the weaknesses, possible for plot manip, MFTL+ but won't die on that hill, and I think everything else seems good at least atm.

 

[Aolphl]

Again not the actual real world. This is a place where a puppet talks and has satanic powers. I already explained the hero thing and is repeated below.

If that's how you evaluate it, don't pay attention to anything the Puppet says and does. Hell if that Puppet talks like Black Hat. Literally, that Puppet represents Black Hat there, and because of what he did there, Plot Manipulation is written on Black Hat's profile.

He makes it on a whim and the sword was only shown using an ability he has.

And Magisword's only addition to Black Hat will be Attack Speed. Nothing more. Just because the sword has Mftl+ Attack Speed does not mean that Black Hat will also have Mftl+ Speed. From now on, Black Hat's profile will read as follows:

Speed: FTL (Was able to surprise Crossover Pops who can escape black holes) Massively FTL+ Attack Speed With Magisword (It vaporized a planet that speed.)

clone is used as an example of what Flug

I'm not speak Spanish

That clone is used as an example of what Flug says in the device's description. It creates whatever the wants but can't replicate it other than outwardly. I don't see how this goes against gifted intelligence, it looks like exactly what he wanted on the surface. There is also several points of supporting reasons why this would not be the case.

1. This clone is not immune to the petrification process (5:41) presented by the medusa head with original BH is immune to.
2. When BH asked anything will make them as strong as BH he says no (4:30). Despite selling the medusa canon (8:03) which was able to strike the clone down.
3. One of the clone is straight up held up by duct tape and nothing else (5:35).

Well, you seem to be right about that. Then the "Power Mimicry" and "Information Analysis" contained in the profile should be removed. Because naturally, Black Hat can be copied, its powers can be imitated.

He has abilities now that make this irrelevant. Still able to teleport among various other things in the links I posted

At the same time, this does not change the fact that Black Hat is weak to Gravity. It will still be added to the Profile.

What you said about the puppet doesn't make sense. So if something exists in real life it can't be shown? But it was just my reasoning on why I thought three years ago and saying things changed.

If the Puppet isn't Black Hat himself, there's no problem with him being in the Real World where we are. But if that Puppet is Black Hat himself, then we can't accept the Puppet's presence in the Real World where we are, because our System is against it.

And I mentioned the hero problem. Prenumbra was good person who was eventually turned to drastic means, into the BHO. And in the comics Heed's escape brought out the true colors of a mob boss that used to work for BH, showing him as rouge. It is still a story like BH himself said, it will have conflict.

This still does not change the fact that there are Good Characters, Heroes in the show. Sunblast, Gold Hearth are characters who are still Heroes and are characterized as Good. There are many more Good Characters and Heroes than them. It wouldn't make sense for Black Hat to create the Show to live in, create Good Characters and Heroes even though he hates them so much, then create villains to fight them and sell them weapons for nothing.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Looks good

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with the first post here.

 

[Aolphl]

I agree with the first post here.

I am grateful for your contributions. Thanks very much

 

[Greatsage13th]

Bump

 

[Aolphl]

Bump

Dude What? This Crt has already been completed, and the things agreed upon here have already been applied to the profile. Three staff members provided input to this Crt. Why did you have this reopened?

 

[Half_Shiny]

Sorry I wasn't able to fully respond earlier, have been busy as all hell recently. One thing in particular needs to be mentioned

• If Gravity is reset in the environment where Black Hat is located, It will just hang in the air.

As I mentioned he had several abilities that could stop this since the airing of this short. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

If you want to even look past that you even then you run into some problems BH stopped himself mid float without any assistance while everything else was shown floating off while he remained stationary. (0:30-0:39, 0:56-0:59). No other object in the room just stopped floating other than BH.

The biggest one though shown of all is this. Complete control over his abilities and destructive abilities in the middle of space with no gravity

 

[Aolphl]

Sorry I wasn't able to fully respond earlier, have been busy as all hell recently. One thing in particular needs to be mentioned

As I mentioned he had several abilities that could stop this since the airing of this short. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

If you want to even look past that you even then you run into some problems BH stopped himself mid float without any assistance while everything else was shown floating off while he remained stationary. (0:30-0:39, 0:56-0:59). No other object in the room just stopped floating other than BH.

The biggest one though shown of all is this. Complete control over his abilities and destructive abilities in the middle of space with no gravity

Well, it looks like you're right. I will remove this from the profile. And then I'm going to turn off this Crt. Most of the things here, especially the Plot Manipulation, were discussed and accepted. I've re-added Time Manipulation to the profile and I'm going to delete this Weakness from the profile. This is the last comment I will make about this Crt.