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The Problem with Fighting Game Verses

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Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
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Or, How the Scaling is Absolutely Horrible and No One Cares

Introductio
This is something that has been bothering me for a very long while, which is present in practically all Fighting Game series present here at VsBattlesWiki. It is a pervasive problem which no one ever seems to care for, much less notice, and I think I know why. These series aren't exactly the most popular here, often being simply niche verses with a few supporters, and thus they usually get away with things that wouldn't fly at the face of Shounen Manga and Mainstream Comicbook Verses.

Case in point, remember that it took a couple months for people to realize that 3-B Mortal Kombat based on an unclear backstory feat shared between all Elder Gods was absolute insanity. That's because basically no one cares for Mortal Kombat here, and so it "got away" with that.

But what exactly am I talking about here? Well, to answer the question, let me link to a few Fighting Game series present in VsBattles:

I could link to others, but out of the top of my memory these are the most egregious examples of the problem I want to discuss.

So, what exactly is this problem? Well, quite simply, the scaling in these verses suck.

Explanatio
Okay, let me elaborate:

There's no two ways about it, it is simply horrible. In the case of Street Fighter, every single character who's not an Akuma-level God-Tier is scaled from Chun-Li and M.Bison. Literally all of them, except for Da. Poor Dan.

But yeah, every single character is scaled from two of the strongest people in the whole series. And it usually goes something like this:

"Fought this guy who fought this girl who is comparable to this guy who fought that guy who fought Chun-li"

I don't even have to begin to explain why that's a problem. It completely ignore the possible context of each of these fights, the potential existence of outliers, the fact that characters in these games often hold back as they tend to fight in sparring matches sometimes, etc.

But let's continue.

In Mortal Kombat, the problem is even worse, as everyone is scaled from the literal God Tier Raiden. 'Effing Raiden. Ever played Mortal Kombat 9? Remember how Empowered Syndel casually soloed 90% of the main cast, and yet was heavily implied to be weaker than Liu Kang and Raiden? And yet people are scaled from him...

Never mind that the structure of the profiles is also garbage, with people being ranked as 8-A scaling from High 7-Cs, etc. A lot of these profiles seem to run on a logic of "He's comparable to this dude but slightly weaker, so down a Tier he goes".

In Guilty Gear, everyone is scaled from Sol Badguy, a character who's lazy as hell, rarely ever taking anyone and anything seriously, and usually stomping them when he does. Blazblue has similar problems, alongside a slew of others (But this is for another time).

In Skullgirls, everyone is scaled from Cerebella punching rocks into diamond, even though there are explictly much stronger, and also weaker characters. But Skullgirls has the smallest cast out of all of these, and only one games. I can actually forgive people reaching the conclusion that they are all comparable in it.

This problem assails other Fighting Game verses as well, albeit to a lesser degree than Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, which are the two worse victims of this issue (Fitting, as they are the two most popular fighting games in the west).

There's a handful of exceptions to this rule, most notably Darkstalkers and The King of Fighters.

In the former, characters can be scaled from 7-B, 6-B, High 5-A, and 3-C depending on how strong they are, although I have no doubt that were I not the one handling these profiles, everyone would eventually be scaled from Pyron.

As for King of Fighters, characters are ranked either 7-B, 7-A, or High 7-A depending on their strength, and the profiles are actually readable and clean. I have to give credit to the people handling and editing them, because they are actually good. Tekke also has this, with people going from 8-B to 7-B depending on how high they are in the totem pole, although it suffers from some weird scaling here and there.

Conclusion
So what exactly am I getting at? Well, it's simple, really:

Stop scaling every single character in a Fighting Game from the Verse's God-Tiers.

Like, seriously. Yes, these are fighting games, and due to their very nature you'll eventually end up with an intricate web of scaling that connects everyone to everyone, but these webs tend to often be inherently self-contradictory and defeating, with people often losing to people that are much weaker than the guys they're scaled from.

One needs to consider the main storylines of these games, the context of each fight, and, if possible, what happened in each fight.

That's all I have to say.
 
No one in Skullgirls is scaled to the God tiers...

Though i havent gotten around to making the changes that were agreed upon a month or two ago becuse some of those pages are a bit messy :/
 
I agree about all of this, but if you have some issues with Tekken i can respond since i'm the one that made the scaling.
 
For Mortal Kombat: Raiden, Fujin, Argus, Liu Kang, All Powers Shujinko, Shinnok, Onaga and Shao Kahn are 7-C.

Empowered Sindel, Blood God Reiko, Heavens Nightwolf, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Noob, Daegon, Taven, Green PIS Johnny and Cassie 7-C ratings need to be analyzed more. Same for Shang Tsung and Quan Chi since Shang Tsung needed to sneak attack Liu Kang in order to kill him.
 
Gaming: The Killer Instinct scaling was being discussed in another thread by Clyde. The Elder Gods are fine.
 
Skullgirls does have an excuse for everyone scaling to Marie though, every character storyline in Skullgirls is a seperate timeline, so technically all of the storylines do happen
 
In the case of Mortal Kombat.

Everyone fights everyone!!!. I swear it's insane.

Sonya beats Sub-Zero but can beat Kano, Kano can't beat Scorpion, Scorpion ties with Sub-Zero.

Jax beat Qan Chi who rivals Shang Sun who rivals Lu Kang but Quan Chi can harm Raidan

Jax gets destroyed by Ermac but Jaccie (Jax's Daughter) beats Ermac!!!

Shoa Kahn loses to ******* Kung Lou in a fair fight. Kung Lou isn't vastly stronger then the likes of Scorpion or Sub-Zero.

After a few more this soon comes full circle to the point where people like Baraka or Reptile are on par or could beat Shoa Kahn.

Honestly it's bad.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Skullgirls does have an excuse for everyone scaling to Marie though, every character storyline in Skullgirls is a seperate timeline, so technically all of the storylines do happe
That should be specified more, because in these timelines not everyone is equal.
 
Injustice has the excuse of the 5-A pills which made Alfred, i repeat Alfred to stomp Superman, who scales to Zod 5-A feat.
 
In the case of Street Fighter, there needs to be much more analysis. Karin and Sakura should not scale from Ryu and Ken based on sparring matches.
 
The Alfred feat happened in the comic Matthew, and was mentioned in the game by Harley.
 
Well in a fighting game that doesn't have a canon storyline, everyone have equal chance to beat everyone.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
That should be specified more, because in these timelines not everyone is equal.
I mean they kinda are? Really the only characters who are explicitly stated or shown to be stronger are Big Band, who fought and help defeat much stronger Skullgirls than Marie, Post Gehenna Eliza, and a fully serious Double, everyone else is around the same level

Like i said though im working on applying some rescaling for the verse that was supposed to be done months ago
 
Yeah but every character has their own story which make the scaling confusing. The logic a>b>c doesn't work anymore especially mortal combat. Heck anyone can beat anyone in their story.
 
Mortal Kombat has a storyline (an inconsistent one).

I can say for sure tho

Jacqie beating Ermac in MKX is an outlier.

Sonya fighting Raidan in MK9 is an outlier and I believe Raidan was holding back anyway.

Kung Lou beating Shou Kahn in a fair fight, in MK9 is an outlier.

Kung Jin fighting Raidan in MKX was just a sparring match (Raidan was in no way taking it seriously)
 
I suppose that this seems to make sense, but the problem is that feats to scale from are usually scarce for these characters, and we cannot wave a magic wand to make them appear, so a lot of characters would likely end up with unknown statistics if we devoted lots of time and effort to this,
 
MVCI scaling is bad, Base Utron Sigma has a 2-C hax from the stones, but he scales from Hulk grabbing a meteor in space for one his specials and destroying the Monster Hunter dragon alongsise Ryu. The fact Frank survived a battle with Thanos is bad.
 
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